SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

It would be a great drivers race. The few SH-AWD 6MT that have run at the track were barely able to edge mid 14's with traps in the 96-97mph range. I haven't yet seen one hit the high 13's at 101MPH like the mags have stated. In reality though there aren't many owners tracking them. My best friend Jesse has a 12' SH-AWD auto. I hope to run him soon in my accord. He finally passed the break in point!

MTEAZY

You can't take the C&D time of the Accord and then throw out the C&D time for the TL.. but it's magazine racing anyway.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't throwing it out. I was stating what owners of the TL have ran down the 1/4 mile. No one has drag raced the 2013 Accord V6 at the track yet. I said it would be a drivers race as Car and driver trapped 101MPH for both the Accord V6 auto and the TL-SHAWD 6MT.

F23A4

TSX69

California's 1st Ultra-Clean Car:
2014 Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid

The California Air Resources Board has approved Honda’s 1st plug-in hybrid as the 1st car that meets the state’s newest and most stringent smog-emission standard.

The 2014 Honda Plug-In Hybrid Accord is the 1st gasoline-powered car to meet California’s SULEV20 standard, the toughest in the nation and 1/3 cleaner than the previous lowest state standard.

This Honda model has lower greenhouse gas emissions than the fleet average standard required by all cars in 2025, the equivalent of a 50% reduction from current required levels.

“Honda has demonstrated that a dedicated commitment to the environment and advanced engineering at every level of the company can deliver the cleanest cars well ahead of schedule,” said Tom Cackette, the Board’s deputy executive officer and head of its mobile source program.

The Air Resources Board Executive Order allowing Honda to sell the newly certified ultra-clean cars in California was signed on December 21, following a detailed examination of emissions and performance test results. Honda began production of the car the same day.

The 2014 Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid will be on sale in California and New York on January 15, 2013.

The 2014 Accord Plug-in Hybrid is powered by Honda’s 1st 2-motor hybrid system, and uses a new Earth Dreams 2.0-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine producing 137 horsepower, teamed with a 124-kilowatt electric motor. Electric driving is supported by a 6.7 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery.

The full-size sedan model achieves 124 MPGe city / 105 MPGe highway in hybrid mode, and 47 miles per gallon city / 46 miles per gallon highway in gas only mode.

In its default upon start-up, the Accord PHEV acts as a pure electric vehicle and will continue in full-electric mode until battery capacity requires the automatic switch to gas/electric hybrid operation. At higher speeds or under high demand for acceleration, the gasoline engine kicks in to provide additional power.

The 2014 Accord Plug-in Hybrid can run in all-electric mode for 10 to 15 miles and has a calculated total driving range over 500 miles. Honda qualifies these estimates, saying, “Your actual mileage and range will vary depending on how you drive and maintain your vehicle.”

When the car’s low battery charge indicator comes on, drivers can plug into a 120-volt outlet and be fully charged in 3 hours. With a 240-volt outlet, a charge takes less than 1 hour, the company says.

The 2014 Honda Accord Plug-In comes with safety features such as Honda LaneWatch™, forward collision warning and lane departure warning.

The low emissions standards that this Honda model meets are part of the state’s Advanced Clean Cars package of regulations, adopted in January 2012, that are intended to ensure increasingly cleaner cars for sale in the state, and provide for increased choices of zero-emission vehicles.

When fully in force in 2025, the new set of standards will reduce smog-causing pollutants from low-emission vehicles 75% from current levels, and greenhouse gases by 34%.

The new requirements will save California drivers $5 billion in operating costs in 2025, and $10 billion by2030 when more advanced cars are on the road

“Once again, Honda is the 1st to comply with ARB’s most stringent standard,” said Cackette.

Honda has a history of being the 1st manufacturer to comply with California’s strict emission standards.

In 1995, the 1996 Honda Civic was the 1st certified Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) gasoline vehicle.
In 1997, the 1998 Accord was the 1st ultra-low emission vehicle (ULEV) gasoline vehicle.
The following year, in 1999, the 2000 Accord was the 1st certified Super Ultra-low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) gasoline vehicle.
In 2001, the 2001 Civic GX, powered by compressed natural gas, was the 1st certified Advanced Technology Partial 0-Emission Vehicle (AT PZEV).
In 2002, the 2003 Civic Hybrid was the 1st certified Advanced Technology Partial 0-Emission Vehicle (AT PZEV) hybrid vehicle.

biker

All those savings will be more than wiped out by the much higher upfront cost of the vehicle. We still have not reached the point where the hybrid "premium" is recovered in the typical ownership period of cars that have equivalent gas only models.

TSX69

ShootOut Pits MidSize Sedans with MainStream Price

USA TODAY, Cars.com and MotorWeek show partnered to compare the latest midsize sedans, setting a price limit of $26,000 with shipping and a fuel economy combined rating of at least 28 mpg.

GERMANTOWN, Md. — Midsize sedans, the old reliable.

The versatility of mainstream family buggies is remarkable. They'll tote 5 people in comfort, over long distances, using only modest amounts of fuel.

While not as handy as hatchbacks, they will pull light trailers, and their fold-down back seats provide room to tote furniture and odd-size cargo.

They are available these days with enough style, safety and comfort accessories to rival luxury cars.

And they have a compelling financial advantage: Midsize cars hold their value better than most vehicles.

3-year-old midsize models have been, and are likely to continue to be, worth about half the new-vehicle sticker price, according to data from ALG, which forecasts and tracks residual value. That's what a dealer would pay at a wholesale auction and is roughly equal to trade-in value.

On the sales charts and in America's driveways, nothing defines the U.S. streetscape so much as the midsize family sedan.

"When you look at what you get — value for dollar, incredible fuel economy, good residual value — there's a sweet spot there," says Larry Dominique, former Nissan product chief and now executive vice president at TrueCar.com and president of TrueCar-owned ALG.

The advantages have kept sales hot. Midsize sedans are 22% of total new-vehicle sales this year. That's about 2.9 million in the 1st 11 months and an increase of 20.6% from a year ago, easily outpacing the increase in sales of all new vehicles in the U.S. of 13.9%, according to sales tracker Autodata.

The overwhelming presence of midsizers belies the assertion that small cars rule, in response to high fuel prices. Small cars are the 2nd-biggest segment, but a distant 2nd to midsizers.

"There's no penalty for driving a car that's midsize. They get good mileage, they're comfortable" and prices are reasonable, says industry analyst and consultant Jim Hall at 2953 Analytics. Americans might want better fuel economy, he says, but won't sacrifice interior space and comfort: "No American is asking for a smaller car."

4 big players in the midsize sedan market are brand new this year, as 2013 models. As many more have been made-over within the past 2 years. That's a lot of fresh action in what's perceived as a commodity market.

To dig into the fast changes and find out what's different since our 1st Showdown comparison of midsizers in 2010, Cars.com, USA TODAY, and PBS' MotorWeek TV show partnered to evaluate the latest family sedans.

We tested 6, priced $26,000 or less including shipping. In the 2010 sedan Showdown, the cap was $25,000 excluding shipping, which runs about $800, so there's little practical difference in price between the 2010 combatants and today's.

It's fascinating to note that the 2012 Showdown entrants were better-equipped, at about the same price, than the contenders in our Shootout for midsizers in 2010.

The price limit was based on a blend of average transaction price data from J.D. Power and Associates, and information showing that buyers are picking more expensive versions.

1 example: Buyers of Ford's redesigned 2013 Fusion midsize sedan are paying an average $3,700 more than they did for the previous model, according Ford Motor's No. 2 executive, Mark Fields.

To be considered in the $26,000 Midsize Sedan Showdown, a vehicle not only had to be priced right, it had to be rated by the government at least 28 miles per gallon in combined city/highway driving. That's deliberately high because we believe that's about what it'll take to get onto many shoppers' "A" list.

The price and mileage numbers did have a big impact on choices, eliminating some appealing contenders: Chevrolet Malibu, Volkswagen Passat and Mazda6.

The only Malibu that hit the mpg threshold was the eAssist mild hybrid, rated 29 mpg in city/highway mix, but its starting price was too high — $26,095. Conventional gasoline Malibus were priced low enough but were rated 24 and 26 mpg.

The only Passat model rated 28 mpg or more is the TDI, a diesel model, at 34 or 35 mpg, but it starts at $27,020. Gasoline Passats that would have fit under the price cap were rated 23 to 26 mpg, not high enough to meet our mileage requirement.

Mazda6 models start at $21,520, well within our price range but are rated no better than 25 mpg, so none qualify. A full remake is coming next year, as a 2014 model, and it will employ Mazda's Skyactiv mileage-enhancing technologies. It could be a stronger contender for the next midsize sedan Showdown.

As always, we enlisted a family to judge the vehicles with their own scores of the six alongside those of our experts.

All the contenders were 2013-model 4-door sedans. 3 are new this year — Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima. The others still are pretty fresh, launched new as 2011 or 2012 models: Toyota Camry, Kia Optima, Hyundai Sonata.

Automakers were invited to provide the test cars equipped as they wished, to give us an idea what each maker considers important.

Accord won, but beat Fusion by only a paper-thin margin — 8.6 points out of 1,000.

HOW THE COMPARISONS WERE MADE

We compared 6 of the top-selling family cars in the U.S. and while we were able to declare a clear winner in our latest head-to-head testing, it was easily the closest we've ever had. Only about 10 points separate No. 1 from No. 3, and overall we were impressed by this class of competitors.

The price limit was $26,000 with shipping, based on J.D. Power data on average price being paid in this market segment. With fuel mileage key to these buyers, we set the mileage minimum aggressively at a government city/highway rating of 28 mpg.

The contenders: 2013 Ford Fusion (all new), 2013 Honda Accord (all new), 2013 Hyundai Sonata (redesigned for 2011), 2013 Kia Optima (redesigned for 2011), 2013 Nissan Altima (all new), 2012 Toyota Camry (redone for 2012).

2 not here: Volkswagen Passat, because the combined rating on its gasoline version was too low and its higher-mileage diesel model was more than $26,000. Similarly for the Chevrolet Malibu, the gas version was too low and mild-hybrid Eco version was too pricey.

The testing in and around Germantown, Md., included:

A 1-day, 185-mile gas mileage test with rotating drivers, mixed city and highway and no use of cruise control. Windows were closed and air conditioning was off. We started and ended at the same gas pump. Final mileage is the average of our observed gas use at the pump and the mpg readouts on the trip computers.

A day of testing by the 5 expert judges over a fixed course.

A day for the family to judge features and drive each car.

The 5 experts' scores in 10 categories are 14.4% each of the final scores, the family's scores are worth 18%. Mileage test results are 10%.

Our experts: James R. Healey, USA TODAY senior auto writer; Joe Wiesenfelder, Cars.com executive editor; Kristin Varela, Cars.com senior family editor; Kelsey Mays, Cars.com industry editor; and Brian Robinson, MotorWeek producer.

HOW THE TOP FINISHERS SCORED

> 2013 HONDA ACCORD

Points: 687.1

Price with shipping: $24,980

Observed gas mileage: No. 2 at 31.87 mpg (EPA city/highway/combined 26/35/29)

Key features: All new for 2013; backup camera (1 of 2 with it); text-message reading and responding (only car with it); Pandora Internet radio (only car with it); LED accents in headlamps.

What judges liked: The transmission. "The Accord's (continuously variable automatic) responds in a jiffy, serving up passing power in concert with your right foot," Mays said. Handling. "Surprisingly athletic and light on its feet, closer to the Fusion than the others dynamically, but with quick, better-weighted steering," said Wiesenfelder. Backup camera. "Accord wins double extra brownie points for squeezing this feature in at this price point," Varela said. Visibility. "I can tell the belt line is lower," Raquel Girvin said. She also liked the controls: "And at least this 1 has a manageable set of buttons up front."

What they didn't: No rear air vents. No split-folding back seat (only 1 without). Noise level. "Especially when accelerating," Wiesenfelder said. Ride. "Rougher than I expected," said Robinson. Storage. "The cup holders imprison small drinks," Mays said. Console and glove box "seem stingy." Interior. "Slightly bland," Healey said.

Bottom line: "Like Camry, Accord does most things reasonably well, and its nimble handling and eager drive<HH>train add a little excitement the Toyota lacks," Wiesenfelder said.

> 2013 FORD FUSION

Points: 678.5
Price with shipping: $25,585
Observed gas mileage: No. 6, 28.49 mpg (EPA city/highway/combined 23/36/28)

Key features: All new. Rear parking sensors (only car with them); 1-touch for all power windows (only car with it); Ford's Sync multimedia; IIHS Top Safety Pick; satellite radio.

What they liked: Styling. "Best looking of the bunch by far," Robinson said. Driving feel. "At-the-limit dynamics and road-holding are the best," Wiesenfelder said. Balance. "Handles nicely without being harsh," Healey said. Back seat room.

What they didn't: Visibility. "The A-pillars are way out in front of the driver and are much too thick," Wiesenfelder said, "which causes problems on winding roads and around pedestrians." Features for price. "Beyond being brand new, the Fusion didn't offer much in the way of extra amenities" compared with rivals, Varela said. The controls. "Too many buttons up front," said Patrick Girvin. "It all looks a little overwhelming."

Bottom line: Best looking, Robinson said, and fun to drive. "The 1.6-liter actually has plenty of power. The interior, though, doesn't quite live up to the style of the exterior."

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

U mean in C/D or on the track?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

As shown above C/D pulled 13.8s@101mph in TL 6MT AWD.

I guess not many owners are willing to dump the clutch on the TL at 5000rpm to get that time......

Yeaaa

For sure. It probably takes less skill to get that number with the Accord 6AT.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

On the track for TL-SHAWD owners were trapping under 100mph. C&D trapped 101mph to tie the AV6 6AT.

You are right. I wouldn't be willing to do that either!

fsttyms1

0-60 and 1/4 have more to do with the driver than the car. It would be a drivers race more than a cars race.

But Place both on a auto-x course or road course and it will be a far different story for the SHAWD TL, that is where it would really shine.

TSX69

2013 Honda Accord Really Satisfies

The 2013 Honda Accord is still ticking like cars do when they’ve been driven hard. The smell of singed brake pads wafts from the wheel wells. “What engine is in that?” asks a guy pulling up in a Nissan 370Z Roadster. “It’s a 6-cylinder, right?”

“It’s a 4-cylinder,” I say.

“No, it can’t be. Has to be a 6-cylinder,” he says.

We’ve both just taken a lap—me in the Honda, him right behind in the Nissan. I got the impression from our exchange that he expected to catch me on the track, despite my head start.

And why wouldn’t he? A low-slung sports car with a potent V6 should have no problem overtaking a heavier family sedan with half the power.

I’m familiar with this particular track and was driving all out. Still, a 4-cylinder Honda Accord leaving a sports car in the dust does say something: Despite being grossly out of its element on a racetrack—as shown by how much the car leaned when changing directions—this midsize sedan is so well engineered that it maintains poise even when being flung about.

More importantly to car buyers, all of the engineering upgrades that make the new Accord perform better than expected on a racetrack also give it a quieter, smoother and more responsive ride in everyday driving.

The outgoing Honda Accord is no slouch when it comes to driving dynamics. But its ride is a little busy, perhaps even too firm for some.

The 2013 model is so much improved that it’s in another league entirely. “For the new Accord, we went back to 0 and started from the beginning with everything,” says Shoji Matsui, chief engineer for the Accord.

A little over half of the steel used in the new Accord’s underlying body is high tensile, which makes the car markedly more rigid while cutting 57 pounds. The difference can be felt in the car’s agility. It reacts instantaneously to steering input, even with just a twitch of the wheel.

The suspension is also suppler than the previous model’s, thanks to new rebound springs and other tweaks. A bumpy road could make the previous Accord feel jittery and unsettled, but the new model absorbs all kinds of jostling much better. And less road noise makes its way into the cabin.

Redesigned front suspension and steering systems are lighter and more compact. Even small weight savings like these help the car feel more balanced and less nose heavy. All of the changes combine to make the 2013 Honda Accord feel fleet, yet stable and safe.

If you want to nitpick, the new electric power steering can feel a bit too light and lacks the tactile feedback of the previous model’s hydraulic system. But most drivers probably won’t care.

Prioritizing Safety

Excellent outward visibility only enhances the sense of safety. Many car manufacturers continue to favor style over practicality by designing flashy cars with small windows, higher belt lines and thicker roof pillars (read more about such design disasters here). Kudos to Honda engineers for keeping the windows tall, belt line relatively low and front roof pillars as thin as possible. Every new Honda Accord also gets larger side mirrors and a rearview camera to further aid visibility.

Besides those upgrades, there is an innovative new LaneWatch system that incorporates a camera into the bottom of the passenger-side mirror. Flick the right turn signal and an image of what’s in the blind spot appears on the eight-inch color screen in the middle of the dashboard.

Many of the latest safety systems in cars are intrusive and clunky, but Honda’s LaneWatch works extremely well. Part of that is because the large screen is set high in the dashboard at about the same distance as the rear view mirrors, so it’s easy to see at a glance. The feature is only offered on the Accord’s top 3 trim levels, EX, EX-L and Touring.

The styling of the new Accord has grown on me. It definitely looks better than the previous model, thanks largely to the redesigned front end that has been trimmed down to achieve a more athletic look and to give the driver a better view of the road ahead.

The clean, simple styling and slim headlights—which use LEDs on the top Touring model, a feature typically found only on luxury cars—recall Accords from the 1980s and ‘90s. Compared to more extroverted designs like those of the Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima, the new Accord might seem bland. But this is a family sedan, not a sports car, and its handsome, restrained appearance will continue to look good long after other designs become outdated.

The overall proportions and rear of the 2013 Honda Accord are so similar to those of the outgoing model that it can be hard to tell them apart, even when they’re right next to each other. Some might criticize Honda’s reluctance to make bold changes in design, but it’s just the way the company operates. Drastic changes come only once every decade or so.

New Engines, Better Fuel Economy

What lies beneath the new Accord’s conservative body is quite different from before. The base 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine is all new. It makes 185 horsepower and 181 foot-pounds of torque—up 4% and 12%, respectively. Yet the engine is 11% more fuel efficient when paired with a new continuously variable transmission.

As expected from Honda, the 4-cylinder engine feels responsive and refined. It sounds good too, unlike 4-cylinders from other automakers, which can sound course or anemic.

A 6-speed manual transmission is standard—great for driving enthusiasts—but most will opt for the continuously variable transmission, which replaces last year’s 5-speed automatic and does a lot to improve fuel efficiency. Honda worked hard to make the transmission responsive and eliminate the lag in power delivery that plagues these types of transmissions. It seems to have succeeded.

Dip into the throttle and the engine winds up quickly for brisk acceleration, thanks to the fast-acting transmission. It feels more responsive than the CVT in the similarly equipped 2013 Nissan Altima (read a review of the Altima here).

The Accord gets a new Sport model for 2013. It comes with a slightly more powerful engine that gains 4 horsepower from a less restrictive exhaust system. The Sport model also adds paddle shifters on the steering wheel that can simulate shifting gears—left for downshifts, right for upshifts.

The 4-cylinder Accord sedan gets an estimated 28 to 30 miles per gallon in combined city and highway driving, depending on the transmission chosen and whether you opt for the Sport model.

Buyers who want more performance can choose a 3.5-liter V6. This engine was significantly redesigned to be more powerful and efficient. Like before, it can shut down half of its cylinders when full power is not needed, but it is designed to run in this mode more often. There is no doubt that the new V6 will transform this family hauler into a speed demon. It comes with a 6-speed automatic transmission and gets an estimated 25 miles per gallon overall.

Interior Has Some Disappointments

Inside, the 2013 Honda Accord doesn’t look impressive, but it is comfortable and quiet. The design and quality of materials are only so-so, which is disappointing for a Honda.

The biggest downside is the baffling layout for the controls. The center console looks like a layer cake, with a large screen sitting atop several rows of buttons and knobs. Depending on the trim, a smaller touch-screen for audio functions joins the array, which only adds to the cacophony.

The climate-control buttons for setting temperature and fan speed aren’t as easy to use as conventional knobs seen on other cars, including older Accords.

Adding navigation brings yet another layer of complication. A large knob at the bottom of the center stack carries over from the previous Accord and controls menus for the navigation and other systems displayed on the 8-inch screen above.

Matsui says the intent of the new layout was to simplify things after customers complained about being confused by the excessive amount of buttons on the previous Accord. There are indeed fewer buttons around the main control knob for the nav system, but the overall layout does not feel like much of an improvement, despite being more organized than before.

Fortunately, other aspects of the interior are far more positive. The front seats are comfortable, and the speedometer and other gauges behind the steering wheel are stylish and clearly legible. The Accord has always gotten the fundamentals right, and that’s what has made it such a pleasure to drive year after year.

The trunk and rear seat are a little bigger than before. But the rear seat back isn’t split like it was on the outgoing Accord and can only be folded forward in 1 piece to expand cargo capacity. This makes the rear seat more comfortable, something Honda says midsize sedan buyers value more than a split-folding seat back.

The 2013 Accord’s interior stays very quiet, even on the highway, thanks to better aerodynamics, lots of insulation everywhere, a 1-piece dashboard design that cuts noise from the engine compartment, and a noise-cancellation system that neutralizes grating sound frequencies.

How it Stacks Up

Whether the new Honda Accord is better than the competition is hard to say. Midsize sedans have gotten so good across the board that none really has an overt advantage over the others. There are plenty of solid contenders—including the new Chevrolet Malibu, Ford Fusion and Nissan Altima—with more on the way, such as the new Mazda 6. They all look, perform and cost about the same, so the choice often comes down to styling and brand preference.

Regardless, the 2013 Honda Accord is unquestionably better than the model it replaces, despite having a complicated and unattractive dashboard. When it comes to the most important stuff—engines, transmissions, fuel economy, driving dynamics, comfort, amenities, exterior styling—the new Accord is impressive. And it remains a good value, with a starting price of $21,680.

Compared with the outgoing Accord, the price of the LX and EX trims for the 2013 model only goes up by $200, after gaining $1,800 to $3,430 in added features, depending on the options chosen. The Accord is also sure to remain 1 of the most reliable cars on the planet.

The 2013 Honda Accord feels like an old friend, familiar in the way it quietly and competently inspires confidence, whether carting the kids to school, hauling a trunk full of groceries or, unexpectedly, racing around a track fast enough to relegate a high-powered sports car to a small reflection in its rear view mirror.

phile

It's really easy to tell when Honda has hit one out of the ball park, and when they don't.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Dyno test done by TOV for the 2013 Honda Accord V6 Touring 6AT

240whp and 225wtq!! That beat out the TSX V6 and the 8th gen 6MT V6 numbers! Quite impressive! Also they recorded a 0-60 of 5.4 seconds with VSA on!

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=2

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Swap in some Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires and 1/4 mile in the 13's shouldn't be a problem.

This just makes me wonder....what's the point of using turbocharged I4 engine when the ancient J series with no direct injection is getting just as good mpg while delivering better performance and NVH.

Costco

I've said similar things about GM's LS series...

The performance ceiling is a lot higher with a turbocharged engine. Honda has their way of doing things, and then seemingly, there's everyone else. Most cars in this segment will have a relatively small turbo anyway, which if dialed in correctly will result in a healthy amount of torque with low fuel consumption in regular driving.

Going back to the GM small block V8s, the problem is with packaging. A transverse turbocharged inline-4 is probably more flexible than a transverse V6. And in my experience, it is much easier to make more power in a F/I setup vs. N/A.

Costco

In any case, Honda is making the J-series work. I just can't figure out why they are making a V6 simultaneously perform so well and have fuel sipping tendencies when you baby it, and yet they make a turbocharged L4 and it gets poor gas mileage. The K23 is a relatively old powerplant by now, but in comparison magazines have reported right around 25-30mpg in the new Escape with the 1.6 Ecoboost. Hyundai owners report mid 30s and higher in their turbocharged sedans.

I'm not familiar with why, but it seems like a quirk of these new crop of direct injected turbocharged engines is they have to rack up some miles for the impressive fuel economy numbers to kick in.

dom

What I like even more is that the J should now be more or less bullet proof. Not as confident in the 6AT unfortunately.

csmeance

I think your talking about the RDX's motor, and that was far from fuel efficient. The combo of SH-AWD which was power robbing and the high amount of boost it had lead to the crappy gas mileage.

I have a rental 2013 328i with a 4 cyl twin turbo motor and an 8spd transmission and having been getting around 32MPG average (city and highway) in it, and it's no slouch by any means! I'd even say that once it's at full boost it pulls harder than my 3G TL! The RDX's Turbo 4 was a "trial and error" by honda which they should have learned a lot from. They should look at what BMW did with the 328 and use that for the ILX refresh (more to come in the 328i vs ILX review I'm writing) to see what consumers want. Personally, if you put the 328i motor with honda's IMA system from the ILX in the ILX, you'd have a car that has great performance stats, is great inside and out and probably will get 35MPG.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I perfectly understand that with boost, you can get a lot of power, assuming other parts can handle it.

I'm interested in knowing where you found the link of the Escape getting 25-30mpg. C/D in their comparison got 21mpg for the 1.6L escape:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...nd-results.pdf

The K23T does not have DI to improve CR, and it's partnered with the ancient 5AT. Its SH-AWD system is constantly on as well. Honda, for reliability reasons, also programmed the engine to run rich most of the time. All of those contribute to the poor mpg IMO. New boosted engines now have DI so that CR can be kept at around 10:1. They are mated to 6,7, or 8 AT. I'm also not sure how reliable those engines are (i.e. the Ford 1.6 Eco Boost engine catching fire and causing a major recall).

The Hyundai models, well, for whatever reasons, their performance numbers don't seem to match the power to weight ratio. The Veloster turbo is a very good example as it's much slower than a Mini Cooper S and Golf GTI despite all having similar hp/lb ratios. This has been confirmed by several comparison tests from different car mags too.

From what I can see so far, most cars that are using downsized boosted engines tend to get around the same performance and same mpg as their competitors with larger NA engines. I personally don't think it's quite enough to just match the numbers. After all, the smoothness, NVH, and sound quality of a proper V6 are also important qualities. If I have to give up on those, the mpg gain must be fairly substantial.

That's true....lol

TSX69

Test Drive
v6 Honda Accord Coupe Seduces

When Honda overhauled the mainstay Accord for 2013, it kept a coupe in the lineup.

You might wonder why.

That question is instantly answered by the Accord coupe — at least the high-end, V-6 model with 6-speed manual that Test Drive flung about.

Seductive, taut, responsive, satisfying. And the leather upholstery feels supreme.

We strongly suspect that reaction to the 4-cylinder version that most people buy would be less enthusiastic. We've tested the 4 in the Accord sedan, which weighs about the same as the coupe, and don't imagine it would provide the blood-stirring, nerve-twitching experience the V-6 manual did.

So, no long windup: The Accord coupe with the V-6 and manual is terrific, a gem that makes you wonder why more cars from mainstream automakers can't be a bit more interesting. You needn't drive it hard to appreciate it. But if you do get frisky, you're struck by how competent it is.

Same V-6 that's in the sedan, but the sound it makes in the coupe has nothing to do with a family car, and the chassis is just enough stiffer that you really do look for tight corners and sweeping turns.

Steering is firm in the right way. It's a result of enough road feel coming through and resistance from tires wide enough to require some effort to turn. No, it's not some kind of boy- or girl-racer machine unfit for daily use. Much the opposite. It's a daily driver, yet the car's many lovely sensations haven't been scrubbed out in a wrong-headed attempt to "civilize" the vehicle.

But the coupe with 4-cylinder — you're probably buying that 1 for its good looks and decent handling, and the same front-seat expansiveness you get in the V-6. Not bad reasons, but a coupe imposes such aggravation on you that you should consider going all out and getting the yee-hah model.

The coupe's wheelbase is only about 2 inches shorter than the sedan's, yet the back-seat legroom shrinks 5 inches.

Unpopular and impractical

Coupes based on mainstream sedans are unpopular, generally, as well as impractical. Smaller and tighter inside — don't count on long friendships with people squeezed into the back seat — than the sedans on which they are based. Coupes are, by definition, 2-door cars, and that limits access, handy storage and rear-seat usefulness in general.

A hatchback would solve some of that. But a hatch isn't a real coupe. It's, well, a 2-door hatchback.

Coupes' appeal seems not to last. Young hipsters age, have kids, make lots of friends and otherwise find 4-door cars or SUVs more appropriate.

Toyota tried a coupe version of Camry, called Solara, that was sold from 1998 into 2009, but it averaged only a modest 8% of Camry sales over those years, the automaker says. Nissan continues selling a coupe version of Altima, but it's a modest 5% to 7% of sales, and Nissan hasn't invested in redesigning it to include the massive updates of the 2013 Altima sedan.

Honda, though, has managed to do well with the Accord coupe, and expects the new 1 to be about 14% of all Accord sales, or roughly 50,000 a year. It shares drivetrains, major mechanical components and an assembly line in Marysville, Ohio, with the Accord sedan. That keeps incremental costs low so profits are made on relatively low volumes.

Coupe buyers, more so than sedan fans, favor higher-power, higher-price, higher-profit models, so it can be worthwhile to a company's bottom line to have a coupe.

In Accord's case, Honda says, 35% of coupe buyers choose the V-6 ($31,140 and up because the V-6 is available only on the top 2 trim levels). Among Accord sedan buyers, 20% choose V-6s.

Even allowing for a coupe's impositions, there are quibbles:

The trunk doesn't pop open when you hit the remote. Barely rises; no handy handhold for the hands-full user. Compare that with how, say, GM does it: Hit the button and that trunk lid snaps fully open. Very convenient.

Controls on the navigation-equipped test car were neither intuitive nor easy to operate. As seminal rocker Chuck Berry sang years ago: "Too much monkey business."

If the back seat's not very important, though, Accord coupe with a V-6 and stick shift could become a very intimate friend.

2013 Honda Accord coupe details

What? Front-drive, 5-passenger, compact sports coupe, available with 4-cylinder or V-6 engine, manual or automatic transmission.

When? On sale since Oct. 8.

Where? Made at Marysville, Ohio.

How much? More standard features than sedan, costs a bit more. Base coupe, LX-S, starts at $24,140 including shipping. Top model, EX-L V-6 with navigation, is $33,140 with manual or automatic. Test car: EX-L V-6 manual.

What makes it go? Same engines as sedan. Standard: 2.4-liter 4-cylinder rated 185 horsepower at 6,400 rpm, 181 pounds-feet of torque at 3,900, available with 6-speed manual or automatic CVT (continuously variable transmission). Optional on high-end EX-L model: 3.5-liter V-6 rated 278 hp at 6,200, 252 lbs.-ft. at 4,900; available with 6-speed manual or automatic.

How big? Interior and trunk space each about 7% less than sedan's. Coupe is 189.2 inches long, 72.8 in. wide, 56.5 in. tall on a 107.3-in. wheelbase. Weighs 3,186 to 3,536 lbs. Passenger space, 93.1 cubic ft. Trunk, 13.4 cu. ft. Turning circle diameter curb-to-curb: 37.6 ft (four-cylinder), 39 ft. (V-6).

How thirsty? 4-cylinder rated 24 mpg in the city, 34 on the highway, 28 in city/highway mix with manual, 26/35/29 with CVT. V-6 rated 18/28/22 with manual, 21/32/25 with automatic.

Trip computer in test car (V-6, manual) registered 16 mpg (6.25 gallons per 100 miles) in exuberant suburban driving.

Burns regular, holds 17.2 gallons.

Overall: Classy, comfy, composed; marvelous, satisfying fun.

Costco

I agree with the inherent advantages of a V6. The problem still is with packaging. Honda somehow squandered the fitment advantages a transverse inline-4 had, lacking the foresight to engineer the K23 to be flexible enough for use in their other platforms. On the other hand, Ford and Hyundai tend to use their turbocharged Ecoboost and GDI 4-cylinders as optional powerplants for vehicles with transverse N/A 4s.

as far as the 1.6T Escape getting 25-30 mpg:

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...e-16-ecoboost/

Costco

I brought up GM's V8s because only in a stock C6 Corvette would you see 380whp/380wtq at the wheels, and still be able to pull 30+ mpg on the freeway, all of without variable valve timing or cylinder deactivation. But as good as the LS3 is, it just doesn't fit in their smaller vehicles, and is just impractical for transverse use.

As good as the J-series is as well as the new Earth Dreams technology is, why doesn't Honda put it in the CR-V, ILX, etc.? We already know the answer, don't we?

I'm also disappointed with the new Accord not having a V6 + 6MT combo in the sedan. If only the rear of the coupe weren't so ricey the sedan looks great, and it seems like it's the best Accord they've made in a long time. Some might say that particular combo didn't sell well enough to justify keeping around, but then again the ZDX, Crosstour, and RL are all still in production/continuing...

SSFTSX

why would Honda put V6 in CRV when slightly more money will give RDX which is far superior vehicle in refinment and fit/finish.
RDX engine is still not DI. so it is limited to 19/27. with DI RDX will be a rocket. It has the highest road clearance bar Landrovers in its class.



1mpg EPA difference convert into 2.4mpg in real driving.


Santa Fe/Escape/Sportage look like an Station wagon in comparision. It does not offer that tall commanding position of an SUV and still cannot beat RDX.

pttl

Thanks for the pic. We didn't know how the RDX looked.

fsttyms1

Its amazing how good that engine is. On a trip from Orlando to Ft Meyers in a C6 i rented a few years back i saw an average of 31mpg at between 75 and 80mph

charliemike

My buddy's C5 FRC got 32mpg on a trip from Chicago to CT.

I was really impressed. He said the car was turning 1800RPM at 65mph or something like that.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Both new Accord Engines make the 2013 Wards 10 best engines list!

Enjoy!

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-te...ficiency-gains

http://wardsauto.com/2013-wards-10-best-engines

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-te...a-35l-sohc-v-6

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-te...a-24l-dohc-i-4

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I do think Honda could have expanded the K23T line into other models. Even if I don't think it will be much good for improving fuel efficiency, it can at least be a quick and easy way to improve output. It also adds an option for consumers to choose from.

Thanks for sharing the link. 29mpg all highway in a road trip in the real world sounds reasonable but I don't think it's all that impressive. Don't you agree? You really need to baby the car to squeeze the rated 33mpg out.

As I've always said, I think the weight is one of the most important factors in fuel economy. The Vette has around 400-500hp, but it's about 3000lb only. The engine barely has to work to keep the car at 65mph.

The new J series doesn't have Earth Dream tech. The new K24 has. The K24 with ED will eventually find its way into the CRV and ILX. The ILX was supposed to come with the ED powertrains, but the earthquake delayed the development of ED.

I don't think Honda planned to put a V6 in the CR-V at all. If you want V6 in a CR-V, Honda will tell you to get the RDX. Even Toyota is getting rid of the V6 in the RAV 4.

I'd also love to see V6+6MT in the Accord sedan!


Very nice!

TSX69

2013 Honda Accord Coupe:
Car Seat Check

The 2013 Honda Accord's redesign has proven to be popular with car shoppers. In December 2012's sales numbers, the Accord easily made the top 10 with 29,428 cars sold, placing it a No. 6. The Accord sedan is the recent winner of our $26,000 Midsize Sedan Showdown, but what about the Accord coupe? Does this 2-door Accord accommodate child-safety seats as well as the sedan?

For the Car Seat Check, we use a Graco SnugRide 30 rear-facing infant-safety seat, a Britax Roundabout convertible child-safety seat and Graco high-back TurboBooster seat.

The front seats are adjusted to a comfortable position for a 6-foot driver and a 5-foot-8 passenger. The 3 child seats are installed in the 2nd row. The booster seat sits behind the driver's seat, and the infant seat and convertible seats are installed behind the passenger seat. We also install the convertible seat in the 2nd row's middle seat with the booster and infant seat in the outboard seats to see if 3 car seats will fit. If there's a 3rd row, we install the booster seat and a forward-facing convertible.

Here's how the 2013 Accord coupe did in Cars.com's Car Seat Check:

Latch system: The Accord coupe has 2 sets of lower Latch anchors in the outboard seats. Although they're buried an inch into the seat bight, the seat cushions move easily out of the way for access.

3 tether anchors are located on the rear shelf and have hinged plastic covers. The anchors are set close to the head restraints, which didn't leave much room for connecting the anchor to the tether. Admittedly, it's a minor complaint.

Booster seat: Our high-back booster seat was too wide for the coupe's sculpted backseat. The side bolster pushed the booster over slightly and onto the seat belt buckle. We had to manhandle it into position. The buckle is difficult to use because it's floppy and the anchor strap is short, so it sits low against the booster seat.

Convertible seat: The forward-facing convertible fit in the Accord coupe's backseat without any problems. The rear-facing convertible also fit well, but we struggled to install it. We had a difficult time accessing the inboard Latch anchor — partly because of our child-safety seat's design, but also because the middle seat's seat belt was in the way.

Infant-safety seat: We had to move the front passenger seat forward quite a bit for this rear-facing safety seat to fit behind it. This left the front passenger without enough legroom. This car seat's hooklike connectors made accessing the Latch anchors a breeze.

How many car seats fit in the 2nd row? 2

Editor's note: For 3 car seats — infant-safety seat, convertible and booster seats — to fit in a car, our criterion is that a child sitting in the booster seat must be able to reach the seat belt buckle. Parents should also remember that they can use the Latch system or a seat belt to install a car seat.

MuGen7Modulo

THIS will put in the shade everybody!!










124 CITY/105 HWY MPG

115 MPG ALL TIME WINNER!!

Accord Plug-In Automatic Transmission $39,780

http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-plug-in/

... it's all about DREAMS!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That grille in that color is ugly IMO. But looks fine in white or black.

biker

It's when you see this, you realize what a rip off the Volt is.

MuGen7Modulo

IMO, PHEV has the best design in the Accord line-up.

Top automakers are approaching the same design.
Look at the pattern!
These "performance monsters" follow the same direction, I mean AMG, super brand new 4series, even latest from VW...

It's all clear for Honda.

dom

At least the Volt is available across North America. That's 49 more states (if you count Canada as a state ) than the Accord Plug-In.

I actually don't mind the styling all that much. I think its that beige color we've seem thus far that throws everyone off. Looks good in white and black.

Costco

100+ mpg

yohan81718

So, this one requires plug-in charge and won't fully charge like hybrids, right?

And MPGe vs MPG.. I'm getting confused here..

MuGen7Modulo

This is good news:

European Honda Accord to Live on: Brand Boss Says

Honda’s European Accord, better known in the U.S. as the Acura TSX, is under development.


“Right now we’re working really, really hard on development [of Accord Euro],” Honda CEO Takanobu Ito said to CarAdvice.

Based on Honda’s traditional five-year product cycle, the timing would be right for a new version of the Acura TSX to approach production. News of a new car hasn’t trickled out the way information typically does leading up to a new generation, spurring some to speculate that the TSX might be gone after its current generation expires.

Ito didn’t say anything about a due date for the new TSX, but that in itself would indicate that there won’t be a new car very soon.

Unfortunately, that isn’t much of a surprise considering the brand also just introduced its Civic-based ILX compact luxury sedan for the 2013 model year.

The brand’s introduction of the 2013 ILX combined with its new 2014 RLX flagship and MDX prototype, Honda likely has its hands full.


3G TSX?!?!

I very hope so!!

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...boss-says.html

MuGen7Modulo

Full article:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/209364/h...del-confirmed/

Moog-Type-S

The MPGe ratings are a joke.
They don't make much sense.

Timmy18

I have a idea of what they're doing.
Take a look at my thread here:

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...tem_id=1125958