Acura: TLX News
#3001
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
My dad had a 1970 Olds Toronado w/ a 455 (7.5L) big block and FWD... that had about 500 lb-ft of torque... FWD burnouts were something to see back then :killer:
I never drove it, but can only imagine what the torque steer must have been...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado
I never drove it, but can only imagine what the torque steer must have been...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado
#3002
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ok, before we move on, are we talking about torque steer in the 3rd gen TL with an MT or an AT?
And MT will exhibit more "torque steer" due in large part to the LSD apportioning the power, which gives a sensation at the steering wheel similar to torque steer but it's really the LSD doing its job.
The AT, on the other hand, does exhibit some torque steer, but compared to a Nissan Maxima, the torque steer is barely noticeable. It exhibited about as much torque steer as I experienced with driving the Grand Prix.
So let's just make that clear because it seems like there might be some comparison being done on two different transmissions. Most car magazines that have driven the TL have opted for the MT so their opinions are not going to count for much in a discussion about the AT transmission.
And MT will exhibit more "torque steer" due in large part to the LSD apportioning the power, which gives a sensation at the steering wheel similar to torque steer but it's really the LSD doing its job.
The AT, on the other hand, does exhibit some torque steer, but compared to a Nissan Maxima, the torque steer is barely noticeable. It exhibited about as much torque steer as I experienced with driving the Grand Prix.
So let's just make that clear because it seems like there might be some comparison being done on two different transmissions. Most car magazines that have driven the TL have opted for the MT so their opinions are not going to count for much in a discussion about the AT transmission.
#3003
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
I think I first read this when they first designed the TL for 2004, but a lot of magazine editors thought the readend and the tailpipes reminded them of a Pontiac Grand Prix. So, isn't it ironic that you guys are dissing the TL for being FWD and saying the Japanese have no clue how to build a good FWD while the American carmakers GM can.
#3004
Edmunds TL-S First Drive
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=116731
Acura sharpens its TooL
By Chris Walton
Date posted: 09-07-2006
A tool is an object designed to do a particular kind of work. The type of work the 2007 Acura TL is designed to do is maintain its leading sales position within the Acura lineup and close the gap on the entry-lux sport sedan sales leader, the BMW 3 Series. While Acura is pleased with current TL progress, holding steady at around 80,000 units a year, it seems the product planners at Acura have been watching the success of their recently rereleased European and Japanese counterparts in the entry-lux segment. BMW 3 Series sales shot up at the end of 2005, and the new Lexus IS Series is gaining ground every day. Infiniti just made public the all-new G35 and we predict nothing but well-deserved success.
But unlike the headline-grabbing rear-drive sedans — some of which are or will be available as a coupe, convertible or wagon, with a turbocharger, AWD and even with rear-wheel steering — Acura's TL comes in front-drive-only, V6-only and sedan-only forms. But for 2007, the TL will arrive in regular and maximum-strength versions. The standard-issue 2007 TL maintains a 258-horsepower 3.2-liter V6 and an all-new five-speed automatic with a host of other improvements. The big news is that the range-topping TL Type-S returns after a three-year hiatus, with more than just tire and suspension upgrades.
To the power of RL
What's the best way to motivate a TL Type-S back to the top of the charts? Power, baby; and the high-revving 300-hp 3.5-liter V6 doing its best to propel the too-heavy, two- wheels-too-many-driven RL would seem like a good choice, and it is. Tuned to 286 horses, the happily unencumbered engine now breathes and revs freely in the svelte nose of the TL Type-S. It can be paired with either the purist's choice six-speed manual or newly upgraded five-speed automatic with paddle shifters and matched-rev downshifts.
In the TL the engine feels bright and responsive throughout the rev-range and gets only slightly more intense at the 4950-rpm VTEC changeover point where the high-lift and long-duration cam lobes come on. Then there's that wonderful Honda engine note made all the better with the Type-S's cold-air induction, dual-stage intake manifold and high-flow exhaust system. It's one of the best-sounding Honda/Acura products since the dearly departed NSX. Truth be told, it could stand to be a little louder, however.
The six-speed manual is of the type we've all admired from Honda. In the tradition of the S2000, but more like that found in the recent Civic Si, the light shifter finds its home with a reassuring clickity-thump. The gear ratios are well considered and take full advantage of the Type-S's enthusiastic new engine. The extensive mechanical science applied to quiet gear whine and smooth gearchanges is evident.
Putting the power down
You might suspect a front-driver with 256 lb-ft of twisting torque to be a tarmac-nibbling handful and it would have been had it not also included a helical-gear-type limited-slip differential (LSD) in the six-speed manual transmission. This long-standing torque-steer-reduction scheme works by dividing the driving force more equally between the two front wheels.
In the case of the TL Type-S, it works very well. The only time we noticed the steering affected by the throttle was at the very top of both 1st and 2nd gear under full throttle. Otherwise, the car's cornering was tack-sharp both off and on the gas. The LSD also does an admirable job of diminishing understeer.
Suspended animation
Both the TL and TL Type-S receive suspension revisions for 2007. Collectively, the effect is a crisper and more controlled car without the harshness usually associated with sport tuning. We've driven all its competitors and the TL is definitely the smoothest operator on all types of pavement. The Type-S is just slightly edgier but still within the acceptable range. We'd even go out on a limb and say the Type-S settings could've been successfully incorporated into the standard TL, and Acura could've been more aggressive with the Type-S with some room to spare. The Type-S rides on grippy Bridgestone Potenza RE030 tires (235/45R17 93W) at all four corners.
Utilizing a classic high-mount upper and lower A-arm front suspension with rear multilink and stabilizer bars, the TL Type-S suspension is tuned to near perfection. Damping rates and body control are outstanding while the suspension's ability to acknowledge road imperfections without changing direction is excellent.
A heavily revised variable-assist rack-and-pinion steering system is incalculably precise and thankfully old school. In other words, Acura hasn't resorted to an electromechanical system with all its nifty variable-ratio and numbing-isolation tricks and compromises. The ratio is fixed to a tidy 15.4:1 ratio and only the steering effort changes with speed. Additionally, the power steering fluid flows through a new aluminum cooler and is kept in check through one-way kick-back damper valve to minimize the possibility of road irregularities making their way to your hands. This is as good as front-wheel drive gets.
Inner beauty
Along with all the significant hardware upgrades, both the TL and TL Type-S feature subtle exterior and interior cosmetic changes only the most encyclopedic will detect. The Type-S is differentiated most distinctly by quad exhaust tips and "black-chrome" exterior trim — and the badge, of course.
Inside, the Type-S further receives more highly bolstered and "Type-S"-embossed front seating and active noise-cancellation through the otherwise standard XM satellite Acura-ELS premium six-disc CD/DVD-audio sound system. Navigation is optional to either.
Prices have yet to be announced, but we were shown a range from $34,000 to $39,000 for the entire line. Going from Acura's '06 pricing, expect a 2007 TL Type-S's base price to be at $37,000 without sat-nav and top out at $39,000.
The bad news
All this is great news, and the TL Type-S would have been big news before the release of the 306-hp '06 IS 350 and '07 G35. Furthermore, we suspect the 2007 BMW 3 Series Sedan will receive the 335i Coupe's 300-hp twin-turbo inline-6 engine.
Where does this leave the TL Type-S? On paper, it's still a distant-but-better front-wheel-driven 4th. It'll never convert die-hard rear-drive fans. It'll never be able to precisely manage more than 300 hp through its front tires. Even with its impressive list of year-to-year enhancements, the guys at BMW, Infiniti and Lexus will no doubt continue the evolution of the sport sedan species at an even more accelerated pace — and they're already one step ahead.
As competent as they are, the 2007 TL and TL Type-S are serving as placeholders until Acura takes seriously the entry-lux sport sedan category as it recently proved it can in the sport-utility segment with its astonishingly good 2007 Acura MDX and RDX.
All this outstanding competence is undeniable. There is no question that the TL Type-S is the best TL ever, and it's more car than most entry-lux buyers would ever need or expect. It delivers an astonishing amount of performance and equipment, some of which is unavailable in the competitors, for a price that'll at least rattle the cages of the rear-drive faithful.
By Chris Walton
Date posted: 09-07-2006
A tool is an object designed to do a particular kind of work. The type of work the 2007 Acura TL is designed to do is maintain its leading sales position within the Acura lineup and close the gap on the entry-lux sport sedan sales leader, the BMW 3 Series. While Acura is pleased with current TL progress, holding steady at around 80,000 units a year, it seems the product planners at Acura have been watching the success of their recently rereleased European and Japanese counterparts in the entry-lux segment. BMW 3 Series sales shot up at the end of 2005, and the new Lexus IS Series is gaining ground every day. Infiniti just made public the all-new G35 and we predict nothing but well-deserved success.
But unlike the headline-grabbing rear-drive sedans — some of which are or will be available as a coupe, convertible or wagon, with a turbocharger, AWD and even with rear-wheel steering — Acura's TL comes in front-drive-only, V6-only and sedan-only forms. But for 2007, the TL will arrive in regular and maximum-strength versions. The standard-issue 2007 TL maintains a 258-horsepower 3.2-liter V6 and an all-new five-speed automatic with a host of other improvements. The big news is that the range-topping TL Type-S returns after a three-year hiatus, with more than just tire and suspension upgrades.
To the power of RL
What's the best way to motivate a TL Type-S back to the top of the charts? Power, baby; and the high-revving 300-hp 3.5-liter V6 doing its best to propel the too-heavy, two- wheels-too-many-driven RL would seem like a good choice, and it is. Tuned to 286 horses, the happily unencumbered engine now breathes and revs freely in the svelte nose of the TL Type-S. It can be paired with either the purist's choice six-speed manual or newly upgraded five-speed automatic with paddle shifters and matched-rev downshifts.
In the TL the engine feels bright and responsive throughout the rev-range and gets only slightly more intense at the 4950-rpm VTEC changeover point where the high-lift and long-duration cam lobes come on. Then there's that wonderful Honda engine note made all the better with the Type-S's cold-air induction, dual-stage intake manifold and high-flow exhaust system. It's one of the best-sounding Honda/Acura products since the dearly departed NSX. Truth be told, it could stand to be a little louder, however.
The six-speed manual is of the type we've all admired from Honda. In the tradition of the S2000, but more like that found in the recent Civic Si, the light shifter finds its home with a reassuring clickity-thump. The gear ratios are well considered and take full advantage of the Type-S's enthusiastic new engine. The extensive mechanical science applied to quiet gear whine and smooth gearchanges is evident.
Putting the power down
You might suspect a front-driver with 256 lb-ft of twisting torque to be a tarmac-nibbling handful and it would have been had it not also included a helical-gear-type limited-slip differential (LSD) in the six-speed manual transmission. This long-standing torque-steer-reduction scheme works by dividing the driving force more equally between the two front wheels.
In the case of the TL Type-S, it works very well. The only time we noticed the steering affected by the throttle was at the very top of both 1st and 2nd gear under full throttle. Otherwise, the car's cornering was tack-sharp both off and on the gas. The LSD also does an admirable job of diminishing understeer.
Suspended animation
Both the TL and TL Type-S receive suspension revisions for 2007. Collectively, the effect is a crisper and more controlled car without the harshness usually associated with sport tuning. We've driven all its competitors and the TL is definitely the smoothest operator on all types of pavement. The Type-S is just slightly edgier but still within the acceptable range. We'd even go out on a limb and say the Type-S settings could've been successfully incorporated into the standard TL, and Acura could've been more aggressive with the Type-S with some room to spare. The Type-S rides on grippy Bridgestone Potenza RE030 tires (235/45R17 93W) at all four corners.
Utilizing a classic high-mount upper and lower A-arm front suspension with rear multilink and stabilizer bars, the TL Type-S suspension is tuned to near perfection. Damping rates and body control are outstanding while the suspension's ability to acknowledge road imperfections without changing direction is excellent.
A heavily revised variable-assist rack-and-pinion steering system is incalculably precise and thankfully old school. In other words, Acura hasn't resorted to an electromechanical system with all its nifty variable-ratio and numbing-isolation tricks and compromises. The ratio is fixed to a tidy 15.4:1 ratio and only the steering effort changes with speed. Additionally, the power steering fluid flows through a new aluminum cooler and is kept in check through one-way kick-back damper valve to minimize the possibility of road irregularities making their way to your hands. This is as good as front-wheel drive gets.
Inner beauty
Along with all the significant hardware upgrades, both the TL and TL Type-S feature subtle exterior and interior cosmetic changes only the most encyclopedic will detect. The Type-S is differentiated most distinctly by quad exhaust tips and "black-chrome" exterior trim — and the badge, of course.
Inside, the Type-S further receives more highly bolstered and "Type-S"-embossed front seating and active noise-cancellation through the otherwise standard XM satellite Acura-ELS premium six-disc CD/DVD-audio sound system. Navigation is optional to either.
Prices have yet to be announced, but we were shown a range from $34,000 to $39,000 for the entire line. Going from Acura's '06 pricing, expect a 2007 TL Type-S's base price to be at $37,000 without sat-nav and top out at $39,000.
The bad news
All this is great news, and the TL Type-S would have been big news before the release of the 306-hp '06 IS 350 and '07 G35. Furthermore, we suspect the 2007 BMW 3 Series Sedan will receive the 335i Coupe's 300-hp twin-turbo inline-6 engine.
Where does this leave the TL Type-S? On paper, it's still a distant-but-better front-wheel-driven 4th. It'll never convert die-hard rear-drive fans. It'll never be able to precisely manage more than 300 hp through its front tires. Even with its impressive list of year-to-year enhancements, the guys at BMW, Infiniti and Lexus will no doubt continue the evolution of the sport sedan species at an even more accelerated pace — and they're already one step ahead.
As competent as they are, the 2007 TL and TL Type-S are serving as placeholders until Acura takes seriously the entry-lux sport sedan category as it recently proved it can in the sport-utility segment with its astonishingly good 2007 Acura MDX and RDX.
All this outstanding competence is undeniable. There is no question that the TL Type-S is the best TL ever, and it's more car than most entry-lux buyers would ever need or expect. It delivers an astonishing amount of performance and equipment, some of which is unavailable in the competitors, for a price that'll at least rattle the cages of the rear-drive faithful.
#3006
That pic of the side of the TL in post 545, the side blinkers on the body and the mirrors look tacky if both of them are still there. Like people said before they should've removed the side blinkers on the body of the car if they wanted to add the ones on the mirrors.
#3007
Prices have yet to be announced, but we were shown a range from $34,000 to $39,000 for the entire line. Going from Acura's '06 pricing, expect a 2007 TL Type-S's base price to be at $37,000 without sat-nav and top out at $39,000.
This will be on my list of cars to test drive in the spring.
#3008
Nice review... Pricing is starting to get close to the competition, so the TL might be a tougher sell for those of use who are on the RWD borderline.
It's nice to see edmunds mentioning the lack of a coupe version. It was funny to read the "the too-heavy, two- wheels-too-many-driven RL" comment
It's nice to see edmunds mentioning the lack of a coupe version. It was funny to read the "the too-heavy, two- wheels-too-many-driven RL" comment
#3009
Well, let's see, the TL-S's start at $37K w/o navi nor even a screen at 286hp FWD sedan, with a nice interior, and a 4 yr old bodystyle.
On the other hand, a new gen G35 with a new bodystyle, a big info screen standard even w/o navi or premium pack starting at $32K with 306hp RWD or AWD sedan with also a nice interior.
Seems to me some people would agree to not experience both FWD torque steer, have a little bit better performance, drive something that's new, save $5K, and go with the new G35.
On the other hand, a new gen G35 with a new bodystyle, a big info screen standard even w/o navi or premium pack starting at $32K with 306hp RWD or AWD sedan with also a nice interior.
Seems to me some people would agree to not experience both FWD torque steer, have a little bit better performance, drive something that's new, save $5K, and go with the new G35.
#3011
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
On the other hand, a new gen G35 with a new bodystyle, a big info screen standard even w/o navi or premium pack starting at $32K with 306hp RWD or AWD sedan with also a nice interior.
but still [I apologize if this hurts anyone's feelings], $38-39k for a new generation AWD car with more power and toys vs. $38-39k for a "facelifted" FWD model less power is a pretty one-sided battle.
#3012
I thought for sure a barebones G35 would be $33K because edmunds and car and driver said the prices would be a bit the same from the current gen. If I was going to buy the new G35, I would get the G35X because I live in a snow climate and the sunroof as my only option. If you can get the Navi w/o the premium package I would like to get that too. I wish I could be a steal if I could get all of that for $35-36K, but we'll see when the actual prices are listed on Infiniti's website.
#3013
#3017
Originally Posted by dom
Looks like a tough sell IMO. I can only see TL sales continue their downward trend. Sure it'll outsell the G35, but downward nonetheless.
I'm fine with the way my CLS comes equipped (no navi, bluetooth, etc etc), and if I could have ordered it without a sunroof, I would have...
#3018
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
That pic of the side of the TL in post 545, the side blinkers on the body and the mirrors look tacky if both of them are still there. Like people said before they should've removed the side blinkers on the body of the car if they wanted to add the ones on the mirrors.
I agree with this but I don't think the lights on the body are blinkers. Aren't they just side marker lights that are always on?
#3021
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai
this is just a dumb question but did they derate the 3.5L or are they being smart and underrating it?
If you swap in a 3.5L block to a CL type S you get 315hp from what I understand or is this inaccurate?
#3023
Acura makes XM radio standard on all 2007 models
looks like teh TL is gonna get NavTraffic and XM is gonna be standard for 2007
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/09/...l-2007-models/
XM Satellite Radio today announced that Acura will make the service standard equipment on all Acura models for 2007. In addition, Acura will now offer XM NavTraffic as part of the AcuraLink system available for an expanded line of four of its top-selling models including the 2007 Acura RL and TL luxury performance sedans as well as the all-new MDX and RDX luxury SUVs. Acura was the first automotive brand to offer XM NavTraffic when it was introduced in the 2005 Acura RL.
#3025
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
so what does that mean exactly? when you buy the car you get a subscription to XM for as long as you own it?
#3026
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Nope...you will get a trial subscription for 3-4 months...then you gotta pay for it.
the only difference I see is the navtraffic.
#3027
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
so what's the hype about "making it standard" for 07? didn't the 06's come with XM for a trial period too?
the only difference I see is the navtraffic.
the only difference I see is the navtraffic.
#3028
Originally Posted by phile
You're talking about the TL specifically, the quote you're refering to says all Acura models, so I assume it's the TSX or RSX?
#3033
It doesnt get me as hard as the 02 Type S did. For a little more i'd go G35 loaded, 335 or IS350. To me it's not worth spending over 30 grand on a car and getting less then 300 horses.
#3034
Originally Posted by bigman
It doesnt get me as hard as the 02 Type S did. For a little more i'd go G35 loaded, 335 or IS350. To me it's not worth spending over 30 grand on a car and getting less then 300 horses.
Not that I'm asking what use you'd have for 300 hp, but there's other things to complain about in the TL before asking for more power.
#3036
Of course not. Back in the old days, the TL-S sold well because it was considered to be the best value in class. Not any more for the new TL-S with the much inflated price. There are just too many competitions in the higher price category. But the basic TL should continue to sell well.
#3037
07 TL-S = Stopgap to "compete" with 2G IS, 2G G and E90 until the 4G TL appears. The OTD price should measurably undercut the BMW 3 and IS350 but it will probably have a difficult time competing against the G35 value:peformance-wise. (SH-AWD would have gone A LONG towards making the TL-S an extremely tempting alternative to the other three.)
#3038
^ Albeit true HOWEVER, I don't think Acura/Honda wants to undercut its top-of-the-line RL sales. The RL already is an underperformer -- added SH-AWD to the TL will basically kill any sales the RL has. Honda better re-evaluate the RL in the next couple years when the new TL comes out. 'The Legend' (JDM) is certainly no legend in sales right now...
And yes ... Acura has a lot to deal with now that the next-gen G sedan has been released. The Type-S will have me over at the dealership for a test drive at my next service in the spring, nonetheless. I just cringe at how much it will be in CAD$. Suckers.
And yes ... Acura has a lot to deal with now that the next-gen G sedan has been released. The Type-S will have me over at the dealership for a test drive at my next service in the spring, nonetheless. I just cringe at how much it will be in CAD$. Suckers.
#3040
Originally Posted by F23A4
07 TL-S = Stopgap to "compete" with 2G IS, 2G G and E90 until the 4G TL appears. The OTD price should measurably undercut the BMW 3 and IS350 but it will probably have a difficult time competing against the G35 value:peformance-wise. (SH-AWD would have gone A LONG towards making the TL-S an extremely tempting alternative to the other three.)
Acura is used to playing conservatively. That isn't going to work indefinitely as all of the legitimate contenders are playing very aggressively (i.e. 300+ hp, RWD or AWD, coupe variants, etc.). Don't tell that to the Type-S apologists, however.
The base TL remains an excellent value, the TL-S @MSRP is not. My SHO analogy stands, and the OTD price is going to be considerably lower than MSRP.