Seriously, I didn't know people over the age of 15 even used "haters" anymore. Fib must be a HUGE Bieber fan.

<a href="http://s13.photobucket.com/user/hottmike/media/1_zps2c92dee2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/hottmike/1_zps2c92dee2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zps2c92dee2.jpg"/></a>

In the mean time you can go out and find milk for those poor rich people you know!

 

OK, that's enough, folks.

Back on topic, please, and stop acting like kindergarteners.

A wise man said that if you have to argue on the Internet, then you have already lost.

 

As an accountant you know your way around a balance sheet. So when you dance on the asset side of the ledger, its smarter to choose ones that appreciate. I can't take a write-off on my personal vehicle, thus I'm biased towards ones with less depreciation when it comes to commuting. Perhaps, I'll make a less rational decision when I get a fun weekend car.


In my defense, I didn't commence with the name calling. But out of respect for NB, I will refrain from responding to verbal jabs and wait to drive a TLX before posting any more opinions here.

 

whoa.....things seem to have gone off course....here are the main known facts about the TLX:

1.) Spy photos of the production TLX suggest Acura watered down certain design elements such as bumpers and side skirts

2.) We are not certain if the TLX shown in those spy photos is the North American mode or not. It's rumored to be the Russian market model.

3.) There are two powertrain choices: 2.4L 8-DCT and a 3.5L 9AT. We do NOT know the exact output of these engines

4.) Both models come standard with 2WD. A new version of SH-AWD is available on the 3.5L model

5.) Acura potentially leaked the price of the TLX 3.5L Advance SH-AWD on http://www.acura.com/ThrillRules.aspx. The figure is $50k. Is that the MSRP of the vehicle? There's no confirmation.

 

^^ Acura threads always go off course.

 

I think they also watered down the stance of the car too. I bet if it came with the same lowered suspension and larger wheels as the concept, many of the complaints would subside.

 

The above, plus proper exposed exhaust tips would help a lot....

 

Of course! That's pretty much everything about the stance!

Sadly, it's hard for the production cars to have that type of aggressive stance.

 

I think, for me, part of what makes Acura's screw-ups with non-SUV models over the past few years so frustrating is that a good portion of what would have made things better was really simple stuff. So far, the leaked images of the production model for the TLX do not appear to indicate they've learned from their past mistakes.

 

Funny thing is they nailed the prototype design......

 

Acura needs to live up to their tagline "ADVANCE"

So, they decided to hide the exhaust pipes.

 

Well, "nailed" is a subjective evaluation. I'd say they did a much better job on the concept than anything else they've done recently and we could probably quibble over some elements (the presence of the beak at all, being one of them), but it shows they are capable of coming up with something attractive. Why that doesn't translate onto something on the showroom floor is still a mystery to me.

 

This.

If they "nailed it", everyone in here would be talking about how much they want one. Lusting after the TLX is not happening on any level.

It's one of Acura's better attempts at a sedan in quite a long time, but they missed a golden opportunity for a new design language.

On top of that, they threw a grand heaping of vanilla all over the production version. Not really a surprise here....Honda always does this.

Basically most of the stuff that was quite nice in the prototype was taken away on the production vehicle. It now looks generic. Like the RDX....like the RLX.

...at least it's not ugly and polarizing like the old TL....so it's got that going for it.

I'm still interested to see if Acura took a shot at a new interior design language .....my guess it's Accord interior with some extra fake wood thrown in.

 

Does many peeps really "lust" after mid size near-lux'ers under $50k other than you and CharlieMike?

I mean seriously. Do your loins get stiff for a MKZ, Regal GS or any of the other "quality" three box sedans that are cross shopped in this space?

Lust is saved for the unobtainable, the ultra high-po supercars like LaFerrari, the Huyara and if we're are being very very generous perhaps the next next next NSX.

 

Well, Moog did say "on any level". I remember the first time I saw a 3G TL, I knew I really wanted one. Was it the same level of "lust" as I felt for a Ferrari or an Aston Martin? Of course not. But it was more obtainable and I really wanted it. My wife thought our 2000 Accord SE was just fine and in every objective measure, it was. But I really wanted a 3G TL. In 2006 I went into the dealership and bought a new one. I gave into my irrational desire...I guess you could say I "lusted" after that car, to some degree.

I realize I'm a sample size of 1, but nothing in the Acura lineup has elicited that kind of desire in me since.

 

 

 

I decided to do some poking around at prices in the class and a top trim TLX (SH-AWD, Advance) at $50k is actually fairly cheap for the class. If the V6 is the engine from the RLX that means it puts out 310 HP which puts it in the same neighborhood as 335 (320 HP), S4 (333 HP), etc. Price out anything else in that category with the same specs and you're pushing $60k with no issues at all.

Again, I realize we don't know what the actual numbers are, but assuming this is the case, how is a $10k discount vs the Germans a bad value proposition?

 

I'm going to quote this here because some people seem to have missed the fact that the $50k price tag is not set in stone, and I'm willing to bet that figure changes as well.

 

Let's put it this way.

The 310hp in the 20 years old J series is NOT the same as 335 or S4. The real world performance figures are not even going to be close.

I would put my $ on 328's 4 banger turbo against 3.5L J series if we were talking about acceleration under 100mph.

while fully loaded 335 might be close to 60k. most of them are in the low or mid 50s and you can't use the "i have lane departure in my TLX and you don't in your 50k 335"

Corolla has LED headlight and 335 does not either. No one gives a shit.

90% of the people who buy BMW and Audi will buy BMW and Audi and there is not much Acura can do about it. unless they offer some cars like GTR at $80k that will beat the shit out of pretty much everything that moves on this planet, then it is hard not to notice it. Otherwise, Acura should focus on how to steal customers from Lexus, Infiniti and Domestics Luxury brands.

 

This. Also, it's pretty well documented that both BMW and Audi underrate their engines (Why? I have no idea).

 

Haha I agree. After the previous designs, the TLX, relative to the others, is a home run for me. With that said, no, I don't mean that it's the best looking sedan in this class. It's just too bad a lot of the elements won't show up in the production model. Shame.

I actually thought the 3G TL concept was a weird looking car...but the production model was much better. May be that's just me...?

The same can be said about the RLX too. On paper, spec for spec, feature for feature, the TLX is around $10k cheaper than its German competitors. However, people buying cars that are over $50k care more about the emblems more. They are willing to give up some features in exchange for a nice badge. Also, a lot of folks tend to lease these cars. People are willing to pay $50-$100 more a month for a more premium brand.

Yeah, BMW and Audi are massively underrating their engines. For instance, the 328i, thought rated at 240hp, is actually making around 240whp based on Edmunds dyno, which is close to 270hp at the crank. As such, Car and Driver managed to pull a 14.3s@100mph in a 328i 6MT and that's convincingly faster than most competitors.

A lot of Honda models are also underrated. For example, the J35 in the Accord is rated at 278hp. But on a dynojet, it's putting down 258whp. That's about 290hp at the crank. That's why C&D was able to get a 14s@103mph run with a 6MT Accord. That trap speed is just 1mph slower than a 348hp IPL G coupe 6MT.

Obviously the 310hp version of the J35 is even more potent, but it's only mated to a power sapping 6AT.

 

Bingo!

Fibbi is an apologist, he does not understand......"on any level"

 

Agreed.

I actually saw the production version of the 3G TL before the concept. I wasn't quite as up on cars back then as I am now.

 

I partially agree with this, I know the Germans sandbag when it comes to their engines. I had it as part of my original post, but I deleted it. As someone else mentioned though, the new DI J Series is also underrated, not as much as the Germans, but still underrated.

My point was going after this "massively overpriced" argument. Sure, you'll never capture the badge snobs, but if you can match the competition pound for pound and feature for feature for $10k less, how is that overpriced? Outside of "It's an Acura, lol" I haven't really seen anything that gives me an answer.

Look, I'm not saying it'll be a success, we still don't know a bunch about the car, but I just don't get the almost gleeful way some people are trying to tear this car apart.

 

I don't know that I see "glee" so much as frustration and disappointment. But, it's a message board and that kind of stuff can often be difficult to interpret.

 

Unfortunately, Acura has successfully built up this perception.

That's why merely "matching" the performance figures won't do much in this segment.

They have to be the performance leader by a good amount and look GREAT.

Not "that's not bad", "that's a lot better than the previous generation", or "not bad" type of crap.

We all loved the direction that Acura has taken after showing us the TLX concept, trust me.

But that got watered down by a lot after we have seen the leaked photo of the production model. That's all.

 

You can never compare pound for pound with Acura.

BMW is RWD and even their AWD is RWD bias so naturally it costs more to produce and the option list and customization is far more than Acura. So are they worth extra $10k, you be the judge.

If there was a RWD TLX that costs $10k more than the FWD TLX, then i will pick the RWD TLX.


a fully loaded accord has 90%+ of the TLX performance and features, so is TLX worth $10k, $15k more than Accord?

 

Especially when i have to spend a few k more to make the TLX look better, or the way it should have come.

 

To be fair, you can say this about a lot of cars, not just the TLX.

 

Not long ago, the A4 was just a Passat. They are certainly much better now, but that 2008 A4 was really Passat-y.

 

I know, i was just trying to prove a point.

 

I'm trying to figure out why you're calling me an "apologist"?

I've critiqued the ILX for having a shitty powertrain and being overpriced.
I've critiqued the RLX for being bland and overpriced.

The difference is that I criticized them after they were released and made an objective opinion after driving them. Unlike Ken, I'm not a major shareholder of HMC, am not a cheerleader and have no axe to grind. If Acura makes a crappy TLX, I will be the first to call them out on it. Check that, after all the expert prejudicial deciders here, maybe the 167th person to call them out.

I'm certainly not going to form an opinion until it is available to form a reasonable opinion about. Punk A$$ Bishes.

If Crazy Sellout would sell me a 335x-drive 6MT with the content of the current TL 6MT TECH for 38k, I probably would have taken him up on it circa 2010. But he didn't, and I'm not jesalous that Moogs and ttribe are.

Just sayin'...

 

 

 

 

Not this again..

 

Some of you guys take your opinions waaaaay too seriously. Opinions beget opinions. And nobody has a monopoly on the "correct" opinions. I should use red text more often apparently. I'm looking at youzzzzzzzzzzzz. :snore:

 

US version.







CH interior.

 

Wheels are an improvement over the previous ones we saw.