oonowindoo

i don't see how that video is relevant to his TL-S is a glorified accord that is a fact. When we had CL-S, we pretty much all agreed it was a glorified accord too. There is nothing wrong with that. At that time, the price difference between fully loaded Accord V6 and TL-S is really insignificant to justify somehow TL-S/CL-s is 3 levels above Accord. If you don't want people to say you drive the Accord Plus, then that is why you demand Acura to stop bring boring vehicles that share everything with Honda and differentiate themselves to justify the higher price, like something other than the same old 2.4L 4 banger and J series 3.5L. Nothing wrong with those engines but it is to time to move on. It is like Acura is still selling blackberrys when rest of the world are using Iphone5S and other 6"screen smartphone.

So a relevant response to his comment should be something like Unfortunately, that car does not exist because Toyota and Subie actually purposely designed that car from ground up to maximize the fun factor at a affordable price.

oonowindoo

To be fair, The whole purpose of Honda is just that.. sell shit load of cars. Having cars like prelude and S2000 in their line up definitely attracted some younger buyers instead of ... you know.
Regardless how badly they messed up Civic, it still sold pretty well because it is a Civic.

On the other hand, Acura is where the problem is.

Yumcha

I have ZERO issues with selling vanilla or trying to milk gullible customers' (please see BMW's hilarious attempt to now sell a 7-seater 2-Series) money.

However, if that is ALL that is to be sold up and down the lineup, well, that's another story. What is left in Honda/Acura's fleet that makes your heart race?

At least with say, Lexus, BMW, and etc., you can identify a few cars in their line-up that are just "wow".




And don't tell me about an RLX with upgraded tires or I'm going to show you what oo-wind is.

Moog-Type-S

If only the new NSX looked remotely like that....could you imagine!

Instead it looks like a close cousin of the R8.

Stingray looks more exotic than the new NSX.

Moog-Type-S

Shut your yap!
You are a

BRZ, 3 series, Buick, Lincoln all suck!!!!

All hail the TLX!!!!

oonowindoo

I am not going to tell you about RLX with upgraded tires because i heard from a very credible source that RLX SHAWD with all season will be faster than F10 M5 and Accord V6 with all season is just as capable as 335i. Swear i did not make these up.

So no need to upgrade.

Yumcha

Okay. I stand corrected on the need to upgrade.


See? I'm learning something new everyday in the world of auto performance.





So, newb question: What will it take for an ILX to beat a Pagani Zonda in a race? Upgraded tires, spoiler, and stickers?

Fibonacci

It has a base engine and 300+hp V6.


I don't think the press has been bowled over it because they haven't driven it yet.


Now who is smoking the wacky sauce. Stingray is nice and I like it, but "more exotic than NSX", we'll just have to disagree on that.

Fibonacci

Aren't you fighting yesterdays battles?
Didn't you get the memo that Honda has given Acura their own brand management and development team?
Didn't you see the TLX will offer an 8spd DCT or 9AT?

Moog-Type-S

...and we are talking about the weaksauce base engine...are we not?




...yet this ignores the fact that the press does in fact get bowled over by stunning, beautiful designs......they clearly didn't in this case.

...I'm sure the NA 4 cyl will be an exhilarating driving experience.




...so says the apologist.

Stingray looks more exotic than the R8...and its cousin in looks the NSX.

Fibonacci

According to some peeps here, some side skirts and more chrome will make it "lustworthy".

Fibonacci

According to the anticipated spec sheets, the "base" engine will have as much power as your 328.


And give us your laundry list of "stunning, beautiful" designs in this class.


According to your prejudicial judgement, clearly not. Now run along and go mag race some moar cars in your daydreams.

MTEAZY

Moog-Type-S

Pssst...this is 2014




This has already been stated by myself and the plethora of peeps posting in this thread.

...and again you asking for stuff already stated, does not remove the fact that the press has not been excited about the TLX design.



No prejudice.....could only imagine if the NSX looked like the HSC.
Sadly they decided to lean more vanilla.


You see, you apologists think everyone in here is a of all things Honda....yet when over and over again we state the awesomeness of some of the Honda products (especially in their glory days of yesteryear) you ignore.....and then rant on with non sense about BRZ, 3 series, Buick and Lincoln....

...but hey, we are all

...could be worse....you guys could go back to ranting about door hinges and location of climate vents versus navigation screen locations. :wink:

MeehowsBRZ

The last time Honda released a brand new car that can be considered a future classic is 1999. They've had A LOT of time to work on something else since then and nothing has come close.

Fibonacci

I didn't realize this was the "future classics appreciation thread."


Enough histrionics, hyperventilating and hyperbole, we're talking about Acura's next near-lux 3 box sedan under 50k. But it's awesome that many of you guys just care so much about the brand.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

No shit. We all were the Honda/Acura fanboys.

We certainly care about the brand.

It's just that we aren't as clueless as some of you current 3G TL/4G TL owners.

Moog-Type-S

^^^ Could it be that Fibi finally put down the bong?!?!?!?!

MeehowsBRZ

Its more of a "disappointed because we hope for so much more from the brand that created the S600, CRX, Legend, Integra, NSX, and S2000 and subsequently got passed up by freaking Hyundai" thread.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

it's amazing that the tlx design is causing this much controversy. imo it's a clean design, and I thought the same thing about the 3g at the time so I think it could do well for acura.

I wasn't expecting a 500hp super sedan from acura. I was expecting a reliable sedan with a v6 somewhere north of 300hp, with a little less controversial beak than the 4g at a competitive price.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Haven't been paying close attention to commentary regarding the TLX (blissfully), but agreed. People need to lower their expectations; Acura isn't BMW nor will they (ever) be anytime soon. They've made their boring vanilla cake and now are eating it.

Speaking of that, I want some cake.

Yumcha

There is no controversy.


The "debate" or drama in this forum is pretty simple to me: Those who think it looks amazing and can beat out Ferrari/Pagani/Aston Martin in design. Or those (I'm one of them) who think the design could be better and it is NOT hot-looking enough to beat out Ferrari/Pagani/Aston Martin.

Yumcha

And that's what most are lamenting about. Given Honda's past...former fans of the brand HAVE expectations. I sure do. Each time a new car/iteration is announced/teased, I am seriously hoping it blows the socks off of BMW et al.

Is that too much to ask of a brand that at one time had cars that IMO made our hearts race? I think not.

Goosew

iTrader: (1)

It's funny if you go to the beginning of this thread (page 1), and you see the reactions to the 2004 Concept TL.

It wasn't unanimously well received either, but now look at the following it has. (at least on this board).

Even with all the controversy of the styling of the TLX (or proposed styling), I'm hoping it turns out to be as big a hit a few years down the line.

(yes, this post is basically me speaking out loud to myself).

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

^yep, very similar discussion at the beginning of the thread regarding the 3g. funny how that works.

Hapa DC5

and that discussion never changed for the 4G

MeehowsBRZ

Maybe the fact that the 2014 prototype is just a warmed over version of what we saw in 2004 has something to do with it. And it actually looks worse because of Acura's insistence to throw that stupid beak onto everything.

Legend2TL

Yeah, that's sorta amusing to read the old comments from long lost people on this thread. The 3G was a big leap for Acura from the 2G in terms of styling and features.

Though I'm biased, the 3G still looks good and modern today as it did a decade ago. One of only two Acura I wanted, the other being a 2G Legend GS 6MT.

Costco

What did people think of the 4G initially?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Design is a funny thing. I used to dislike the front of the 2004 TL, and thought the 2004 TSX was much better looking. Nowadays, I think the 2004 TL is much better looking than the 2004 TSX.....

With that said, I still think the pre-facelift 4G TL is ugly.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

ya know, when I bought an e36 m3 (well over decade ago now ) the e30 purists hated the e36, same thing happened when the e46 came out.

Moog-Type-S

oonowindoo

Some of these people don't seem to understand that WE DO NOT HATE TLX or ACURA. But we expected more and the expectation is not another BMW or Audi.

During Acura's peak years late 90s and early 2000s.

-My 01 CL-S had features that competitions could only dreamt of: 17" wheels, 260hp (when 200hp was considered a lot), Touch screen Navi, HID, 5 speed tranny with sport shift (even though it was a POS 5 speed) and many more. Some of the items were considered godly for a $30k car at the time.

-S2000 came out in 2000, it pretty much destoryed its comptition for its handling, and engineering (240hp from a 2 liter 4 banger rev to 9k rpm) and still very desirable and competitive even in 2014, 14 years later.

-Legend - self explanatory
-NSX
-Integra GSR, Type R
-prelude with 4WS

when 3G TL came out, the competition was catching up but it still had many class leading features and innovations.

Look at Acura and Honda now... always behind everyone 4-5 years on everything. Yes Acura is not BMW and never will be because some 10-15 years ago, it was just as good if not better than BMW at a much cheaper price.

Fibonacci

I might be the most sober inmate in this asylum.


One of these days I promise to take a hit off your pipe and buy a truly "lustworthy" fun car.

oonowindoo

I'd recommend 2015 RLX SHAWD, heard it is super fun with All season tires and 0-60 under 4 secs, F1 cars will be jealous of the down force it generates through superior ground clearance and best of all you will still get 30mpg while doing all these.

Wait for the video that it beats out M5 and E63 on the track.

Goosew

iTrader: (1)

Moog-Type-S

Moog-Type-S

Don't think that will happen.....you own ugly

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I understand what you are getting at. But was Acura really better than BMW? Going back to your CL-S example, let's have a look.

Price
The CL-S base price was $30k. With navi, it's $32k. A 330Ci started at $35k. A loaded one was $40k. Fully loaded vs fully loaded = 25% difference

A 2014 TL SH-AWD Advance is fully loaded at $45k. An almost fully loaded 335i xdrive is over $62k. Using just $60k for this example, the difference is already a staggering 33%.

Features
17" wheels, touchscreen navi, paddle shifters, HIDs, etc are all very nice at that time. But a equivalent 330i also had most those covered, plus/minus a few things.

Obviously the 4G TL is getting dated, but its features are still right up there for the most part. At this stage though, we should wait to see what the TLX will offer as the 4G TL is pretty much irrelevant nowadays.

Power
I was truly impressed by the 260hp engine, and hence I got myself a 2G TL-S. With that said, the 330i was just as fast, if not faster, with less power.

The 4G TL with 6MT is no longer class leading in terms of power. However, it's still high competitive. It's still a 13's car in the 1/4 mile like the 335i. Again, I'm more interested to see what the TLX can do with its smaller body and 9AT, assuming engine output stays at the 300hp level.

Handling
The CL-S was one of best handling FWD cars in its class back then. The TL SH-AWD isn't too shabby either. Once again, I'm eager to see what the TLX can do with a 25% lighter SH-AWD system, among other changes.

As for your other comment regarding Honda and Acura being behind in everything, do you really mean that, or is that just an exaggeration. Surely, the Accord isn't 4-5 years behind for one. The Civic, while not exactly class leading, is still a very competitive vehicle. The Fit, CRV, and Odyssey are pretty much the same too. With Acura, their main concern is the sedan line up. Their MDX and RDX are well received.

I think the real issue is that Honda and Acura no longer makes sports cars/coupes. You mentioned NSX, S2000, Type S, Type R, etc. None of these exist anymore.

fsttyms1

The same as they think of it now