phile

They're not being done in parallel...

If they were, the tier-1 car would be launched as the same time as the finance arm of Acura...

phile

And that, to me, would make more sense.

phile

Great, so now you don't think I even know what the tin foil hat referred to.

I'm not paranoid, i just hate the TOV board. And this immediately reminded me of it, how someone could just say something unflattering about Honda/Acura and there were the clean up crew who come in and immediately says something like "don't like it, leave" or "bitch and moan" when it never occurs to them that someone else has a differing view, and he or she actually put some thought into their posts. It's not just some late night drunk post. It's an actual opinion.

Edward'TLS

Neuronbob, I can reassure you that you won't be again an Acura owner for a long .... long time with the products from Acura that can rival your 550 HP, RWD CTS-V.

Colin

They might make a care to rival it in quality or long term durability. I'll be interested to see how his ownership experience goes, especially as the car ages. We all have our 'domestic' pre-conceptions and a real owner POV is always welcome.

Colin

LOL, you likened my tin foil hat comment to me calling you a troll. I was pointing out this was not the case.

PG2G

Not really, it just means they are being worked on at the same time. A car can take years and years to build, a financial services center may take months.

Costco

I LOVE reading this stuff..... people from the CL/TL/TSX/RL/etc forums going into Car Talk/News..... definitely going to get back to it later

For anyone who can't handle the heat, go to TOV so you can all :gheyhug: over there. I can't even stand being over there sometimes.

Edward'TLS

What's TOV ? Can it get any better and any more exciting than this AcuraZine ?

ThermonMermon

acuras best shot for grandeur will be due to the failure of its competitors. acura is on the upswing (relatively), while many other brands continue to slump in quality efficiency. bottom line.

this economy is the best thing to happen to acura. what better opportunity to exploit / luxurize a brand that has the underpinnings of a honda? why do you think they at throwing so many dollars are marketing acura's recognizable brand? this is a time to strike. no-brainer.

here is the competition - daimlers maintstream vehicles, volvo, saab...basically most rival companies with the exception of audi and bmw.

time for honda to shine with acura

ThermonMermon

and take a close look at the lack of quality in mercedes from the dailmer merger-
huge change in a sampling the mainstream cars over just the past 4 years, BEFORE the recession. (bascially every brand under the 50k mark) ...imagine what will happen when other brands soon merge? imagine the impacts of value engineering parts for the sake of soon to be bankrupt companies?

luckily enough the only parts bin acura is dipping into are its own (hondas). and what better formula for an effiecient, profitable, compact company like honda to reap its soon to be profits, and fund acuras future potential.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol I think you might want to check out TOV again hahaha

GunMetaL CLSPiG

I really don't think acura having his finance dept thing will get them to tier 1..... I think gettin rid of that ugly grill will be will do the job A LOT better!!

neuronbob

Right on the mark, Colin! That's my one concern about owning a GM product. The CTS as a make has less reliability than any Acura product, the TL coming closest. I realize what a ($66,000) risk I took in terms of reliability and GM survival. I am waiting for the 3G RL to see if I'm going to jump back into the Acura world in another 2-3 years. (Prays to the car gods that the Grille is toned down in it like the TSX) Speaking of real owner POV, I'm working on my thorough comparo to the RL--after all, the CTS series is the same size as the RL and has most of the same creature features.

Back on topic:

I have no doubt that Acura will eventually achieve Tier-1 status, the new TL and ZDX interiors are proof that they are working on it, they just have to have a hit on external design as well, something to make enthusiasts salivate. They HAVE to tone down the grille, similar to the way it was done in the TSX Putting a V6 in the TSX to move it upmarket and go toe-to-toe with the 1 and 3-series was a BRILLIANT move. In fact, if I were going to buy an Acura TODAY, I'd take a blue or silver TSX V6 tech, please . Even better, with 6MT.

In addition to the V6s I still hope that Acura makes ONE hi-po version of the RL. It doesn't even have to have RWD, just give it a V8, and let Mugen do it if Honda doesn't want to do it in-house. I still do a facepalm when I see the missed opportunity with the V8 Mugen Legend. I. would. have. stood. in. line. for. that. And they would have beaten Lexus' IS-F (weak sauce, I drove it) to market. But that's water under the bridge.....

...and I can't believe people are getting their panties in a bunch over a paperwork change. Think of it this way, guys...this appeases the same people who are bothered by having "Honda" on the windows of their luxury car. The financing arm paperwork change is a GOOD thing for image. Acura is taking baby steps to tier 1. Honda plans things out VERY meticulously and slowly....a reason they are surviving the economic downturn in good shape.

OK, going to drive the Dragon now...Monster Rollout is in a couple of hours (I'm at Wake The Dragon in my S2000! )

Costco

While I think a V8 in the RL is inevitable, a hi-po version is unlikely from the factory... and even if there was one I doubt it'd be a 6MT. If there was a hi-po and/or 6MT variant it would likely be Mugen, as you said. Mugen means $$$$$$$$ so I'm 99% sure that it wouldn't be competitive from a price/performance ratio standpoint. But it would make some people feel better about their purchases regarding their perceived reliability of an unproven (new) car.

GM automatic transmissions are one of the stoutest and most reliable out there.... it is probably the last thing you need to worry about. I've only seen the CTS-V in pictures - but compared to the previous gen, which I've driven, the new CTS-V looks miles and miles better than the previous CTS-V.... not only aesthetically but in terms of quality. You don't have the rattles or diff problems that the owners of the 04-07 did, so far, knock on wood.

Have fun with the S2000! Would definitely be a fun road to drive on.

and I might check TOV again later on.... heh

Edward'TLS

I hate to speak the truth, but anything less than a V8 (at least as an available option engine) for the RL will NOT make the RL a Tier-1 car.

I have one question for you, Neuronbob. Let's say if the top engine for the 3G RL would only be a 350 HP hi-po V6, and coupled with the heavy-ass SH-AWD (meaning no RWD chassis), will you still want to trade away your 550 HP RWD CTS-V ?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think Neuronbob WANTS to have a V8...since he said, "It doesn't even have to have RWD, just give it a V8." My interpretation is that, a V8 powered RL with SH-AWD is what he wants.

brizey

Just throwing a thought out--what about a turbo V6 for the RL? Apply the same tech in the RDX motor. Make it a real small turbo. It only needs to make 380 HP to be on par with the Toyota and Nissan V8s.

Edward'TLS

So I guess without a V8, not even absolutely perfect Acura reliability will win him back to buy Acura from his 550 HP RWD CTS-V.

fsttyms1

No replacement for displacement. Some just want the V8 sound! Myself being one of them. Some want RWD. Myself being one of them. I dont want a bloated underpowered V6 getting the same mileage as a v8

ThermonMermon

you guys are too quick to focus on acuras grill - their business model goes so much farther. please bring more to the discussion

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think that's what he meant.

SpicyMikey

Some of you guys are just too hard on this company. What gives? There's nothing wrong with this move. In fact, it's perfectly logical. If Audi uses VW Financing to handle their customer then they are the wrong ones, not Honda. Some people do care about these image-only items. Had they not done this we'd be calling them stupid for not understanding the image driven culture here in the U.S. Remember up until a few years ago that the glass on the Acura's said "Honda". People complained about that endlessly.

This doesn't make them Tier1 but it's an incremental improvement in that direction. They need to do this AS WELL as increase the price point of all their products and provide financial incentives for all their dealers to remodel and expand the showrooms. It's just part of a larger plan I suspect.

Brandon24pdx

Probably a good move creating a separate finance department..can't say it would hurt brand image at all.

Despite my not caring much for their current sedans and their non-existent sports coupe, their SUV's are everywhere around my city. RDX's and MDX's seem to be the weapon of choice for every starbucks swiggin, sportwear clad yuppie with a brat or two to haul around. (No offense to these types people, I've just never met a stereotype I wasn't bananas about)

TMQ

I was reading Business Week and noticed this:

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...ge_top+stories

On page 2, Ed Wallace notes that "Much in the same way, no one discusses the fact that Honda's (HMC) Acura division lost money in this country for more than a decade..."

Just wonder where he gets the information.

neuronbob

That depends. I may decide I'm sick of this particular V8's abysmal gas mileage and want to come back for a DI or biturbo V6. Who knows? A lot can happen in 2-3 years, the typical lifespan of cars in my life lately.

For now, I giggle a little inside every time I tromp on the gas, get instant torque, and hear that Corvette-like burble. I absolutely love this.

TSX69

It was almost like starting a business from scratch so I am sure it took a while for them to make their initial investment back ... I would wager that the NSX also was a big reason it took so long to see a profit.

I read somewhere that it takes a business 3-5 years to turn a profit ... something the size of Acura probably would take longer.

neuronbob

Is that really true? I'm sure it lost money as a new business, but for ten years? Tough to believe.

Colin

When the brand started, dealers had a real hard time. They had to build all new stores and service facilities and for the first 5-6 years, there was no service revenue. Finally Acura allowed dealers to work on Hondas to keep the techs busy.

Edward'TLS

Absolutely agree. Nothing can beat the instant power and mega low-end torque from big displacement V8's.

taitando

So Acura has it's own financing arm. Why? Is there really a great perception in who's listed (Honda vs Acura) as the lien holder? I don't get the need to open a whole financing division versus just changing the letter head from Honda to Acura.

All the other companies do it. For example, when I had a Lexus, the paperwork said Lexus Financial Services. But guess who showed up as the actual lien holder on my credit report? Yup, Toyota Motor Corporation.

The same goes for the Audi I now have. I get a bill from Audi Financial Services, but on my credit report VW Credit is the actual lien holder. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same if you needed to finance a Lamborghini. It would probably go through VW credit.

Again, I think it's moot when you're a big company with different brands in your lineup. Just change the damn letterhead.

Colin

This is what they did.

Maybe some of the problem in this thread is due to the headline of the thread? mikeschicagoRL started the thread in February about product plans.

Then in April ( a full 60 days later) TSX69 added the part about the financial news. I believe this has caused many people to overreact to the report because they think that the financial news is the "new strategy" listed in the title.

I don't know if this was a combined thread, but they are about two different topics.

SpicyMikey

Right it's just a branding effort. The change is as deep as the changes they made to the the changes made to the TSX when they brought it over from Europe. Im sure it cost very little and didn't preempt any other plans

Edward'TLS

The next strategic step Honda should take is to rebadge the European Accord as Acura TSX to be sold worldwide, including Europe. They're basically the same car, and could fool no one. The Acura brand will not take off, unless it's Honda link is severed.

SpicyMikey

But Honda would loose their anchor model in Europe. I agree they are fooling no one but I think they ultimately need to just dump the Tsx here in NA if they are serious about going top tier. Then they can add a new true (more upscaled) SHAWD Acura model in that slot with a convertible variant that can truly compete directly with the 3 series

TSX69

I put it in this thread bc the mods have gotten really adamant about not starting new threads so I post things into the closest related thread as possible; they tend to update the thread subject along w/ relevant page #s.

However, I doubt that that has much to do w/ people' reactions here. There are some people that only like to post to say something negative -- for instance, look over @ crises thread where it is revealed that even though Honda lost 77% profit they are still in the black - only 1 positive response & all the usual suspects who always have something to say have been silent on the matter.

dom

The only people they're not fooling are some enthusiasts. The people that have no idea the TSX is an Accord far outweigh the people who do.

JD23

That's definitely true. Also, it's still a good car, so why does it matter how the car is sold outside of North America?

AsianRage

Hmmm, sounds like Acurazine to me

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I disagree about dropping the TSX as a model. Instead, they need to focus on developing a unique platform for the TSX to ride on that will compete directly with the 3-series and push the TL up to the 5-series level. I also think an RSX revival might be good to go up against the 1-series and A3 so long as they do not do a repackage of the Civic like they did the last RSX.

If differentiation from Honda is the key for going Tier 1, then they need to focus on those unique platforms, which is not exactly going to be a short-term item so patience from the loud-mouth enthusiasts like us is going to be required.