Acura: Development and Technology News
04-29-2009, 11:30 AM
#1641
The sizzle in the Steak
IHowever, I doubt that that has much to do w/ people' reactions here. There are some people that only like to post to say something negative -- for instance, look over @ crises thread where it is revealed that even though Honda lost 77% profit they are still in the black - only 1 positive response & all the usual suspects who always have something to say have been silent on the matter.
Try to understand the wide scope of things here in Automotive News.
We complain about GM, & Chrysler $$$$$ issues because they have been HORRIBLE for decades when it comes to running their companies....UAW mess, poor product (at least in the past for sure).....so this is why people in the threads make comments about how backasswards they are....even now to the point where joe taxpayer is bailing them out for failing. They screwed up in a major way when it comes to their $$$$$.
Honda has been and is good now with how they run their financial aspects of their company. Why should we say much about it? It's nothing new. Honda just like many other brands are not being hit as hard as Chrysler and GM....so it's really no big news at all......what more do you want...another cookie?
However many do complain about what is wrong with Honda Acura....it's not the $$$$.....it's the product.
No need to list all the things that many peeps complain about when it comes to Honda/Acura offerings.....you know the list well.
04-29-2009, 11:31 AM
#1642
6G TLX-S
Will it affect TSX sales : NO.
Will it bring up the Acura brand closer to Tier-1 : NO.
Does Honda want the Acura brand to become Tier-1 : YES.
04-29-2009, 11:39 AM
#1643
6G TLX-S
I disagree about dropping the TSX as a model. Instead, they need to focus on developing a unique platform for the TSX to ride on that will compete directly with the 3-series and push the TL up to the 5-series level. I also think an RSX revival might be good to go up against the 1-series and A3 so long as they do not do a repackage of the Civic like they did the last RSX.
If differentiation from Honda is the key for going Tier 1, then they need to focus on those unique platforms, which is not exactly going to be a short-term item so patience from the loud-mouth enthusiasts like us is going to be required.
If differentiation from Honda is the key for going Tier 1, then they need to focus on those unique platforms, which is not exactly going to be a short-term item so patience from the loud-mouth enthusiasts like us is going to be required.
04-29-2009, 11:43 AM
#1644
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I wonder if Honda really does want Acura to become Tier-1. Honda has done extremely well financially without having a Tier-1 brand; far better than some Tier-1 manufacturers like Daimler. Rebadging the Euro Accord as the TSX allows Honda to maximize returns on the sunk Euro Accord R&D costs. A TSX developed solely for Acura in the US would likely have a lower return, unless sales increased significantly.
04-29-2009, 11:45 AM
#1645
6G TLX-S
I put it in this thread bc the mods have gotten really adamant about not starting new threads so I post things into the closest related thread as possible; they tend to update the thread subject along w/ relevant page #s.
However, I doubt that that has much to do w/ people' reactions here. There are some people that only like to post to say something negative -- for instance, look over @ crises thread where it is revealed that even though Honda lost 77% profit they are still in the black - only 1 positive response & all the usual suspects who always have something to say have been silent on the matter.
However, I doubt that that has much to do w/ people' reactions here. There are some people that only like to post to say something negative -- for instance, look over @ crises thread where it is revealed that even though Honda lost 77% profit they are still in the black - only 1 positive response & all the usual suspects who always have something to say have been silent on the matter.
Honda is doing good here by staying in the black. It's a grown up now. It doesn't need to get a constant pat on the back by it doing what it's suppose to do.
04-29-2009, 12:09 PM
#1646
6G TLX-S
I wonder if Honda really does want Acura to become Tier-1. Honda has done extremely well financially without having a Tier-1 brand; far better than some Tier-1 manufacturers like Daimler. Rebadging the Euro Accord as the TSX allows Honda to maximize returns on the sunk Euro Accord R&D costs. A TSX developed solely for Acura in the US would likely have a lower return, unless sales increased significantly.
During the good times, Honda factories are running close to full capacity, and there is no room for brand expansion for adding new models.
No expansion = no additional revenue = no additional profit.
Factory capacity is measured in terms of vehicle counts. If Acura were able to sell high-priced $50K+ cars, Honda could make the same amount of money by converting more existing production lines (building sub-$50K cars) to build the high-priced models but now with a lesser vehicle count. This frees up the factory capacity which allow Honda to add new models, and as a result, pushes the company profit to the next high level.
This is exactly why Honda is dying to push the Acura brand to become Tier-1, and be able to sell $50K+ cars.
04-29-2009, 12:09 PM
#1647
But Honda would loose their anchor model in Europe. I agree they are fooling no one but I think they ultimately need to just dump the Tsx here in NA if they are serious about going top tier. Then they can add a new true (more upscaled) SHAWD Acura model in that slot with a convertible variant that can truly compete directly with the 3 series
What Acura needs to do is give the TSX and RL it's own sheet metal along with more power/drivetrain options. A grille and tech options does not suffice in making it a significant different vehicle from a Honda. You got Acura designing the RDX, MDX, TL and the upcoming ZDX. Then you have Honda of Japan designing the RL and Europe (I believe) designing the TSX! This is why Acura feels its brand is not recognizable, it's because the models are designed with such different elements.
Let Honda make the engines and let Acura do everything else as its own brand.
04-29-2009, 04:55 PM
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Yes, we honestly believed that THIS was going to shatter the industry's view of Acura. And if Acura focuses all its resource on it, it will somehow delay or prevent the tier-1 products from coming to fruition.
I mean, REALLY? REALLY? Give us some credit.
We just think the tier-1 car should come before anything else. It's marketing, it's brand value, we're viewing it from a strategic marketing point of view and there are those who don't think it's the best plan of action.
Where this is dragging on is people like you who try to discredit that by painting us exactly as nimrods who seemingly think that this would prevent the designers and engineers from progressing.
I mean, REALLY? REALLY? Give us some credit.
We just think the tier-1 car should come before anything else. It's marketing, it's brand value, we're viewing it from a strategic marketing point of view and there are those who don't think it's the best plan of action.
Where this is dragging on is people like you who try to discredit that by painting us exactly as nimrods who seemingly think that this would prevent the designers and engineers from progressing.
I get a kick out of reading these forums with all the quacks finding any opportunity to bash Acura.
The whole Tier one discussion is unrelated to this article. I really don't understand the noise. The simply printed new contracts and brochures. What is the problem with that? Will it win over tier one buyers? No, but it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle (one you are apparently too near-sighted to see). The cars are comming, there is no sense in holding off on branding and buildings for NO reason. If they were ready to move forward with it, then great! No harm no foul.
The cars are coming, but that is not what this article is about, so bithcing and moaning about tier 1 cars IS in fact trolling, and I hope the mods act.
04-29-2009, 06:59 PM
#1650
Phile is funny, perhaps a casualty of TOV? You keep making references to it for some strange reason.
I get a kick out of reading these forums with all the quacks finding any opportunity to bash Acura.
The whole Tier one discussion is unrelated to this article. I really don't understand the noise. The simply printed new contracts and brochures. What is the problem with that? Will it win over tier one buyers? No, but it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle (one you are apparently too near-sighted to see). The cars are comming, there is no sense in holding off on branding and buildings for NO reason. If they were ready to move forward with it, then great! No harm no foul.
The cars are coming, but that is not what this article is about, so bithcing and moaning about tier 1 cars IS in fact trolling, and I hope the mods act.
I get a kick out of reading these forums with all the quacks finding any opportunity to bash Acura.
The whole Tier one discussion is unrelated to this article. I really don't understand the noise. The simply printed new contracts and brochures. What is the problem with that? Will it win over tier one buyers? No, but it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle (one you are apparently too near-sighted to see). The cars are comming, there is no sense in holding off on branding and buildings for NO reason. If they were ready to move forward with it, then great! No harm no foul.
The cars are coming, but that is not what this article is about, so bithcing and moaning about tier 1 cars IS in fact trolling, and I hope the mods act.
04-29-2009, 07:53 PM
#1651
Honda Fanboy
Phile is funny, perhaps a casualty of TOV? You keep making references to it for some strange reason.
I get a kick out of reading these forums with all the quacks finding any opportunity to bash Acura.
The whole Tier one discussion is unrelated to this article. I really don't understand the noise. The simply printed new contracts and brochures. What is the problem with that? Will it win over tier one buyers? No, but it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle (one you are apparently too near-sighted to see). The cars are comming, there is no sense in holding off on branding and buildings for NO reason. If they were ready to move forward with it, then great! No harm no foul.
The cars are coming, but that is not what this article is about, so bithcing and moaning about tier 1 cars IS in fact trolling, and I hope the mods act.
I get a kick out of reading these forums with all the quacks finding any opportunity to bash Acura.
The whole Tier one discussion is unrelated to this article. I really don't understand the noise. The simply printed new contracts and brochures. What is the problem with that? Will it win over tier one buyers? No, but it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle (one you are apparently too near-sighted to see). The cars are comming, there is no sense in holding off on branding and buildings for NO reason. If they were ready to move forward with it, then great! No harm no foul.
The cars are coming, but that is not what this article is about, so bithcing and moaning about tier 1 cars IS in fact trolling, and I hope the mods act.
p.s. Only a troll would actually call someone a newbie.
04-29-2009, 08:19 PM
#1652
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That reminds me of my elementary school days... when all logic fails, resort to name calling.
For the record, Acura does need the cars. But the cars are incomplete without a proper dealership experience from the bulding, to finance (and yes, the paperwork).
Acura anounced one year ago at their dealer meeing that they intend to go for tier 1, so the car following the ZDX will probably be their first true T1 attempt. Until then, we should all withold judgement.
For the record, Acura does need the cars. But the cars are incomplete without a proper dealership experience from the bulding, to finance (and yes, the paperwork).
Acura anounced one year ago at their dealer meeing that they intend to go for tier 1, so the car following the ZDX will probably be their first true T1 attempt. Until then, we should all withold judgement.
04-30-2009, 03:11 AM
#1653
Race Director
04-30-2009, 10:18 AM
#1654
Only a troll would call posting an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, labeling it as moaning and bitching, as trolling.
04-30-2009, 10:20 AM
#1655
04-30-2009, 10:28 AM
#1656
Senior Moderator
Sorry, but I don't consider long time posters that happen to have some negative opinions towards Acura trolls. Maybe you should spend some more time around here before you run around calling people trolls.
But I do agree that this thread shouldn't be the place to argue Acura's Tier 1 aspirations. This is minor news that has somehow gotten blown out of proportion. If we even need to, lets keeps this thread aimed at discussing the new Acura letterhead.
04-30-2009, 11:27 AM
#1657
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Many of us have been saying for YEARS what Acura should/could be doing, what we hope Acura would do, and we've been let down year after year, but that doesn't change the fact that we aren't Acura fans. We're just getting more and more frustrated at seeing a brand that had so much potential, let it go so easily many years ago.
Their inability to understand what they want to do, lack of progression over many, many years in key vehicle markets (coupes, flagship, supercar) and a conservative mindset, just like Honda, hasn't helped them the least and is why so many of us find it easy to find faults in what they do. We look past the marketing crap, right down to the problem at heart and until that's solved, there will be no progress.
....
Here's another discussion on the same topic that Fishy and I had albeit it was a short one...
IMHO, there's no car that they have in their current lineup that I feel competes with other cars on the market. At the time of our Avant purchase I could have purchased a TL-S for little less than what we paid for the Avant, but would I want to spend money on a car that is still FWD, has a interior that I feel is a little too "busy" and doesn't have give me a feeling that I'd enjoy to drive the car. And also lacks the ability to be customized by the consumer? Fine BMW and merc have way too many options to add on, but that doesn't make it worse for them. I understand why people want to be able to simply buy a car an be done with it. But if I'm spending that much money on a car, you'd be hard pressed to make me feel comfortable in having to settle for whatever the manufacturer says I should buy because that's what they have in their lineup. That is one of many reasons I went with Audi instead of Acura. I was able to customize my car exactly how I want it. Hell it even works for VW!
I've driven every single model in Acura's current lineup as loaners. Each for more than a week, some more than others, commuting to and from work, and I can tell you that none of them were fun to drive compared to driving my Integra or Avant. The TSX was similar to the Integra, but still wasn't that fun. That is why I downplay Acura.
The RDX is roomy, but the interior is gawd awful. They've tried to make the intstrument cluters look all futuristic with their round plastics around each gauge and frankly it looks cheap. Center console is too damn busy, too many buttons. Turbo lag is absotluetly horrible on the RDX too. Even the service advisor's told me they don't like the RDX!
I've driven both the last gen and the new TL, again very roomy, but again, instrument cluster suffers the same fate as the RDX, same goes for the center console for last and current gen. The only cool thing I found in the current TL was the USB jack in the center armrest. And that grille,
Driving the car was numb to me. I didn't feel like i was even driving. For a sport luxury car, it doesn't have that sporty feel. Sure it's got power, but what fun is that if you don't feel it in the control of the car.Plainly put, Acura, IMHO is lacking direction. All of us enthusiasts have an idea of what they need to do. They need 3 coupes, an entry level, a more refined luxury coupe, and a top level, brand identifying beast of a machine. They also need a top tier luxury sedan to compete with the likes of the LS, A8, 7 series, etc. Once they get that, then they can say they are in the game. Until then, they are lollygagging, trying to create their own game.
Right now, they can't even compete with Infiniti or Lexus yet they've hinted in the past at wanting to go up against the big boys. The M and GS put the TL to shame, the G and IS trounces the TL and TSX. THe FX is an awesome performing and looking SUV that also puts the MDX to shame, but if I had to choose between the RX and the MDX, I'd probably go with the MDX. The EX, well that thing is plain ugly
so I'll give you the RDX on that one. And now instead of working all those cars that they could have been working on, they're working on the MSX? 
For the previous comparisons I'm not going on price of the vehicles, but vehicle class.Acura is not advancing even though that may be their campaign. They can't even decide what they want to do with the NSX successor.
Last edited by Sly Raskal; 04-30-2009 at 11:29 AM.
04-30-2009, 12:48 PM
#1658
Many of us have been saying for YEARS what Acura should/could be doing, what we hope Acura would do, and we've been let down year after year...We're just getting more and more frustrated at seeing a brand that had so much potential, let it go so easily many years ago.
Their inability to understand what they want to do, lack of progression over many, many years in key vehicle markets (coupes, flagship, supercar) and a conservative mindset, just like Honda, hasn't helped them the least and is why so many of us find it easy to find faults in what they do.
Their inability to understand what they want to do, lack of progression over many, many years in key vehicle markets (coupes, flagship, supercar) and a conservative mindset, just like Honda, hasn't helped them the least and is why so many of us find it easy to find faults in what they do.
Despite the shortcomings you mentioned (no coupes, flagship, supercar), they have managed to increase sales year over year, financial meltdown not withstanding. In this current financial climate, I am hopeful that the "conservative mindset" that is viewed as a detriment in a boom economy, will be an advantage.
To say Honda/Acura doesn't listen is silly. Of course they listen. If you were an SUV fan, you'd be rejoicing that they finally stopped using Isuzus and made a real SUV the "Honda way". If you were a torque fan, you finally got a torquy engine in an entry level Acura vs. the screaming 7800 RPM Integra GS-R. If you had a large family, you finally got a world class mini-van compared to the Accord based 4 cylinder Odyssey. So they listen. They're just not listening to you.
Back to the "no coupes, flagship, supercar". Supercar, not much to say. Economic meltdown killed it plain and simple. Flagship? The current RL addressed every shortcoming of the previous RL, in spades. However, it was a sales flop. Lesson learned. Hopefully when the next one debuts they will take from this and make it better. But every manufacturer has one or two cars they would like to forget. Remember the BMW 528e? This ultimate driving machine made 121 HP and revved to 4750. Exciting. How about a Cadillac Cimmeron or Infiniti M?
Coupes. Yeah, that really sucks. But Civic coupes cover the same ground as the old Integras, and the Accord coupe covers the CL. I think the best we could hope for in the near term is a TSX based coupe fitted with SH-AWD. The timing would be right since such a product would logically launch after the ZDX and after the TL 6MT, (allowing the TL to get the tranny first) and I still believe such a car is coming. Will it satisfy everybody? Probably not, but it would provide a car above the performance level of the Accord Coupe, which has always been the a achillies heel of the CL.
Just my ramblings on the topic that has nothing to do with the topic.
04-30-2009, 01:31 PM
#1659
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Freudian slip? 
Anyway, I take issue with your assessment that the Lexus GS "trounces" the TL and the Infiniti FX "trounches" the MDX. That is obviously your opinion, and one that is not shared by everyone. Also, please remember that Acura has been handily outselling Infiniti for years and Honda is in far better financial condition than Nissan, so the situation is not as dire as you are arguing.
Anyway, I take issue with your assessment that the Lexus GS "trounces" the TL and the Infiniti FX "trounches" the MDX. That is obviously your opinion, and one that is not shared by everyone. Also, please remember that Acura has been handily outselling Infiniti for years and Honda is in far better financial condition than Nissan, so the situation is not as dire as you are arguing.
Last edited by JD23; 04-30-2009 at 01:33 PM.
04-30-2009, 03:15 PM
#1660
6G TLX-S
Freudian slip?
Anyway, I take issue with your assessment that the Lexus GS "trounces" the TL and the Infiniti FX "trounches" the MDX. That is obviously your opinion, and one that is not shared by everyone. Also, please remember that Acura has been handily outselling Infiniti for years and Honda is in far better financial condition than Nissan, so the situation is not as dire as you are arguing.
Anyway, I take issue with your assessment that the Lexus GS "trounces" the TL and the Infiniti FX "trounches" the MDX. That is obviously your opinion, and one that is not shared by everyone. Also, please remember that Acura has been handily outselling Infiniti for years and Honda is in far better financial condition than Nissan, so the situation is not as dire as you are arguing.
But the hell breaks loose after Honda got aggressive and made it clear that it wanted the Acura brand to become a Tier-1 (true luxury) brand, and just by outselling other Tier-1 brands doesn't make the Acura brand any closer to it's Tier-1 objective because it still doesn't have any Tier-1 vehicles.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 04-30-2009 at 03:17 PM.
04-30-2009, 04:00 PM
#1661
There is no problem if Honda wants the Acura brand to stay at where it is now, which is hanging in between an economy-brand status and a true luxury-brand status. Everything is peaceful.
But the hell breaks loose after Honda got aggressive and made it clear that it wanted the Acura brand to become a Tier-1 (true luxury) brand, and just by outselling other Tier-1 brands doesn't make the Acura brand any closer to it's Tier-1 objective because it still doesn't have any Tier-1 vehicles.
But the hell breaks loose after Honda got aggressive and made it clear that it wanted the Acura brand to become a Tier-1 (true luxury) brand, and just by outselling other Tier-1 brands doesn't make the Acura brand any closer to it's Tier-1 objective because it still doesn't have any Tier-1 vehicles.
04-30-2009, 04:19 PM
#1662
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Sorry, but I don't consider long time posters that happen to have some negative opinions towards Acura trolls. Maybe you should spend some more time around here before you run around calling people trolls.
But I do agree that this thread shouldn't be the place to argue Acura's Tier 1 aspirations. This is minor news that has somehow gotten blown out of proportion. If we even need to, lets keeps this thread aimed at discussing the new Acura letterhead.
But I do agree that this thread shouldn't be the place to argue Acura's Tier 1 aspirations. This is minor news that has somehow gotten blown out of proportion. If we even need to, lets keeps this thread aimed at discussing the new Acura letterhead.
Phile just stands out as someone who gets over-excited about any comment that is not in line with his views. As I pointed out, I'm not disagreeing with him completely, but pointing out the fact that there are other places for the discussion he is trying to have on EVERY single news thread.
By the way, I did not call him a troll, or direct that statement directly at him. I was simply making an observation. And I'm sure you'll recognize, it was a valid one.
Maybe Azine would be much more welcoming for new users to register, if members didn't go out of their way to attack or belittle new posters or people who also happen to read/contribute to other sites.
So Acura does have issues, many of which are annoying to the enthusiasts, but if I were a betting man, I would put all my money on Acura reaching its goal in 6 years. They have made a legitimate effort to differentiate itself from honda (not distance itself).
04-30-2009, 04:28 PM
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There is no problem if Honda wants the Acura brand to stay at where it is now, which is hanging in between an economy-brand status and a true luxury-brand status. Everything is peaceful.
But the hell breaks loose after Honda got aggressive and made it clear that it wanted the Acura brand to become a Tier-1 (true luxury) brand, and just by outselling other Tier-1 brands doesn't make the Acura brand any closer to it's Tier-1 objective because it still doesn't have any Tier-1 vehicles.
But the hell breaks loose after Honda got aggressive and made it clear that it wanted the Acura brand to become a Tier-1 (true luxury) brand, and just by outselling other Tier-1 brands doesn't make the Acura brand any closer to it's Tier-1 objective because it still doesn't have any Tier-1 vehicles.
I have seen some mid-level retailers that occupied a niche attempt to move more upscale, but in the process, the retailer alienated its previous customer base without attracting enough new high-end customers.
Last edited by JD23; 04-30-2009 at 04:32 PM.
04-30-2009, 04:49 PM
#1664
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I know I'm very vocal about complaining about Acura and I don't feel bad about saying the stuff that I have. I really do hope that this time around Acura does do something. I'm anxious to see them make the TL a serious 5 series competitor, make the TSX more sporty and rival the 3 series, and introduce a coupe or two into the mix.
If they can get on that path, they'll be on their way to a tier 1 status. IMHO, that would be the simplest way to do it as well.
04-30-2009, 05:49 PM
#1665
We used to feel the same way 6 or 7 years ago, probably before you even had a license.
I know I'm very vocal about complaining about Acura and I don't feel bad about saying the stuff that I have. I really do hope that this time around Acura does do something. I'm anxious to see them make the TL a serious 5 series competitor, make the TSX more sporty and rival the 3 series, and introduce a coupe or two into the mix.
If they can get on that path, they'll be on their way to a tier 1 status. IMHO, that would be the simplest way to do it as well.
I know I'm very vocal about complaining about Acura and I don't feel bad about saying the stuff that I have. I really do hope that this time around Acura does do something. I'm anxious to see them make the TL a serious 5 series competitor, make the TSX more sporty and rival the 3 series, and introduce a coupe or two into the mix.
If they can get on that path, they'll be on their way to a tier 1 status. IMHO, that would be the simplest way to do it as well.
04-30-2009, 05:53 PM
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We used to feel the same way 6 or 7 years ago, probably before you even had a license.
I know I'm very vocal about complaining about Acura and I don't feel bad about saying the stuff that I have. I really do hope that this time around Acura does do something. I'm anxious to see them make the TL a serious 5 series competitor, make the TSX more sporty and rival the 3 series, and introduce a coupe or two into the mix.
If they can get on that path, they'll be on their way to a tier 1 status. IMHO, that would be the simplest way to do it as well.
I know I'm very vocal about complaining about Acura and I don't feel bad about saying the stuff that I have. I really do hope that this time around Acura does do something. I'm anxious to see them make the TL a serious 5 series competitor, make the TSX more sporty and rival the 3 series, and introduce a coupe or two into the mix.
If they can get on that path, they'll be on their way to a tier 1 status. IMHO, that would be the simplest way to do it as well.
Think about how far they have come since 6-7 years ago.
RWD is coming for sure, the only thing up in the air is a V8, but we'll have to see which way the market goes. I can see most automakers dropping v8s for the most part, as they have already started doing so or announced they will in other markets.
Things like a financing arm and new buildings that aren't shared with honda, are steps, small steps, but steps towards t1. My argument is simply that bashing Acura for doing some good, no matter how minimal, is absurd.
So acura is late to the game, that point is resoundingly clear. But they are finally working on what many of us have been asking for, let's give them some credit if we are true enthusiasts.
04-30-2009, 06:04 PM
#1667
and as I said earlier, you're a newbie. That's not to dodge any real meaningful argument against you (as you have tried to accuse me of doing), but the fact is you've only seen one or two posts from me and you've made that inaccurate assumption about me. So if you don't mind I would like to end this and let the thread continue with its intended purposes.
04-30-2009, 06:06 PM
#1668
04-30-2009, 06:09 PM
#1669
Interestingly, having a V-8 RWD sedan does not make Hyundai a Tier 1 brand either. Obviously they have not stated this as a goal, but for all the ink it gets here.... Anyway, it is a combination of things that make a Tier 1 brand, product, dealers, customers, and yes paperwork.
04-30-2009, 06:56 PM
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Umm and as I said earlier, you're a newbie. That's not to dodge any real meaningful argument against you (as you have tried to accuse me of doing), but the fact is you've only seen one or two posts from me and you've made that inaccurate assumption about me. So if you don't mind I would like to end this and let the thread continue with its intended purposes.
and as I said earlier, you're a newbie. That's not to dodge any real meaningful argument against you (as you have tried to accuse me of doing), but the fact is you've only seen one or two posts from me and you've made that inaccurate assumption about me. So if you don't mind I would like to end this and let the thread continue with its intended purposes.I'd like to reiterate that I have been a reader of Azine for while now (longer than my join date suggests), though not as you have been around for, don't try to discredit me based on that. I didn't make any judgements or call any names, so I'm not sure what you're referring to anyway. Don't assume it makes an ass of u and me. But it's my bad for falling into your trap, so in an effort to get this thread back on track, I'll go ahead nad accept your appologies.
To clear it up for those who were not sure, Acura dealers won't be dealing with any new reps or policies, but you can expect acura-specific incentives in the near future, and hopefully a stronger leasing program that what has been offered up to this point. I'd also like to point out, that even though the branding move has just recently been finalized, Acura began making acura-specific marketing materials and introduced the one-pay lease last year, all part of this push towards a unique Acura buying experience.
04-30-2009, 07:48 PM
#1671
I don't think Acura will make it to Tier 1 status by building only profitable vehicles. Some level of faith that addressing the more influential market niches will help raise the status of the overall brand is needed.
Flagship? The current RL addressed every shortcoming of the previous RL, in spades. However, it was a sales flop. Lesson learned.
Hopefully when the next one debuts they will take from this and make it better. But every manufacturer has one or two cars they would like to forget. Remember the BMW 528e? This ultimate driving machine made 121 HP and revved to 4750. Exciting. How about a Cadillac Cimmeron or Infiniti M?
Coupes. Yeah, that really sucks. But Civic coupes cover the same ground as the old Integras, and the Accord coupe covers the CL. I think the best we could hope for in the near term is a TSX based coupe fitted with SH-AWD. The timing would be right since such a product would logically launch after the ZDX and after the TL 6MT, (allowing the TL to get the tranny first) and I still believe such a car is coming. Will it satisfy everybody? Probably not, but it would provide a car above the performance level of the Accord Coupe, which has always been the a achillies heel of the CL.
I wouldn't mind seeing the RDX powertrain in a small coupe, but that doesn't seem likely now.
04-30-2009, 07:51 PM
#1672
Oderint dum metuant.
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And don't get your panties in a bunch over some of our negative comments (general statement here, not directed at anyone in particular). I'd say most of us still like Acura, whether we own one currently or not. Most of us do think that at some point Acura will have a line up similar to the other luxury brands. The catch is, we've been wanting it and/or hearing about it coming for a very long time...we can't help but be a little cynical at this point. Sure, a bunch of minor things need to be done, but the enthusiasts are at the point that we don't care about the little things, we just want the cars. After all, the cars are what it's all about.
04-30-2009, 08:42 PM
#1674
chill_dog: My panties are not in a bunch. The TSX has plenty of torque compared to an Integra. It also has more torque than just about any NA 4 cylinder of similar size.
By all accounts, V-8s and RWD are in the works. As I've said, I've been with Acura for awhile, and until very recently they have never said they planned for such cars. I don't see how "we've been wanting it and/or hearing about it coming for a very long time..." Wanting yes, but hearing?
BTW, what cars have you owned? What brought you to the brand?
By all accounts, V-8s and RWD are in the works. As I've said, I've been with Acura for awhile, and until very recently they have never said they planned for such cars. I don't see how "we've been wanting it and/or hearing about it coming for a very long time..." Wanting yes, but hearing?
BTW, what cars have you owned? What brought you to the brand?
04-30-2009, 08:49 PM
#1675
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A 2000 model GS-R Sedan weighed 2764 lbs; whereas the weight of a 2004 TSX came in at 3,318 lbs! That's a HUGE weight difference between the two with 30 hp bump in power and 26 ft-lb more than the Integra.
Sources:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=144
http://www.automotive.com/2004/12/ac...odynamics.html
Side note: Someone should start a new thread that can hold our Acura discussions or just move the discussion to the Acura Thread(s) in Automotive news.
Last edited by Sly Raskal; 04-30-2009 at 08:52 PM.
04-30-2009, 08:50 PM
#1676
I hope I never see the RDX engine again.
04-30-2009, 08:53 PM
#1678
This all confuses the point I was making. The American public voted with their $$$ and said loud and clear they didn't want tiny cars that you had of rev the snot out of and only had a manual. They wanted a car that a 6 footer could comfortably fit in with an automatic. The point I was making is that Honda does listen, but there are two sides to every point.
04-30-2009, 09:01 PM
#1679
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This all confuses the point I was making. The American public voted with their $$$ and said loud and clear they didn't want tiny cars that you had of rev the snot out of and only had a manual. They wanted a car that a 6 footer could comfortably fit in with an automatic. The point I was making is that Honda does listen, but there are two sides to every point.
You're right though, the general public doesn't want a car that only comes in manual, but IMHO, it weeded out a lot of people that probably shouldn't have owned the car in the first place
and sorta reflected the racing inspired image that Acura was trying to hold up at that time. 
04-30-2009, 09:05 PM
#1680
In other words, long ago, they went mainstream and catered to the masses to turn a buck and left enthusiasts with nothing.
You're right though, the general public doesn't want a car that only comes in manual, but IMHO, it weeded out a lot of people that probably shouldn't have owned the car in the first place and sorta reflected the racing inspired image that Acura was trying to hold up at that time.
You're right though, the general public doesn't want a car that only comes in manual, but IMHO, it weeded out a lot of people that probably shouldn't have owned the car in the first place
and sorta reflected the racing inspired image that Acura was trying to hold up at that time.