Acura: Development and Technology News
07-21-2009, 02:18 PM
#1841
I'm the Firestarter
What bothers me most about Acura's insistance on FWD is not that the front wheels are driven... it's that the front overhangs are just HUGE. All the cars are starting to look like rhinos.
The main reason I decided to go for an A4 is that here's a car that doesn't have that problem, it doesn't have the huge nose.
The main reason I decided to go for an A4 is that here's a car that doesn't have that problem, it doesn't have the huge nose.
07-21-2009, 02:28 PM
#1842
Senior Moderator
Infiniti isn't perfect, they have their warts. They don't have an entry level sedan or a mainstream SUV like an MDX or RX. And the number of dealers they have is also considerably less than Acura? Correct me if I'm wrong.
But the vehicles they do have are done right IMO. That's why they keep coming up when discussing why Acura should go FR/RWD. No to mention the fact that they nearly went belly up until they were re-invented with...yup RWD.
But the vehicles they do have are done right IMO. That's why they keep coming up when discussing why Acura should go FR/RWD. No to mention the fact that they nearly went belly up until they were re-invented with...yup RWD.
07-21-2009, 02:41 PM
#1843
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My point was that Audi has no RWD mainline platforms and the few V8 models do very little for their overall sales. And the trend is AWAY from V8s. This has been beaten to death - neither a V8 nor a RWD platform will do magic on Acura's sales numbers. It's just this automotive downturn and the new Honda head that are making it more obvious.
Just as RWD and V8 do nothing for Infiniti.
Just as RWD and V8 do nothing for Infiniti.
And a RWD and V8 has done a lot more for Infiniti than lack of RWD and V8 has done for Acura. When the economy was humming along, Infiniti had no problem selling M35/45's, even outselling Lexus's GS many times. What has the RL outsold? Uh, maybe a Saab here or there?
You can argue that Infiniti isn't a tier-1 brand or is equal to Acura if you want. But that still doesn't doesn't disprove that lack of a V8 or RWD guarantees failure.
Again, show me a tier-1 brand that lacks both a V8 and RWD and I'll eat my words. Every tier-1 brand that I know of that has succeeded has done so with at LEAST a V8. yet Acura thinks it can be a tier-1 brand without bringing the right stuff to the table? Haha, power of dreams...but not reality.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 07-21-2009 at 02:45 PM.
07-21-2009, 02:43 PM
#1844
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uh-ooh
Four-door coupe on the way from Acura?
Return of the CL, albeit now with four doors
By Staff, Canadian Auto PressMay 27, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )
Return of a Legend? The last Acura coupe to grace our roads was the CL, a sporty little two-door that had about as much visual appeal as the Accord it was based on. No wonder it didn’t make as much of an impact as the Legend Coupe that preceded it.
Acura has learned a thing or two about standing out from the crowd since these early, conservative days. Whether you like its new “shield” inspired design language or not, Acura now wears an easily recognizable face that pushes the styling envelope to extreme edges while dividing the masses into two love it or lump it piles. Therefore the brand is ripe for a new take on the two-door, and one that will reportedly share underpinnings with the recently introduced ZDX crossover.
And like the ZDX, Honda’s premium brand will be following a European forerunner into a new market niche, not branding a trail of its own. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that, and in respect of the latter four-door coupe segment, a safer bet than the ZDX, which might get bashed about on the big uncharted waves of the five-door with hatch crossover sports car niche; only BMW’s X6 surfs these waters so far.
Most likely renamed the CL, the new model will slot in between the TSX and TL, but will likely be priced nearer to the larger Acura as it will go up against Volkswagen’s stylish and fully-featured CC.
Expect Acura’s Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) and the brand’s new 3.7-litre V6, plus Motion Adaptive EPS.
If this is more than an artist’s rendering and associated blog banter we should see the resurrected CL later this year in Los Angeles or at the Detroit auto show in early January.
source: http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Fou...340/story.html
Four-door coupe on the way from Acura?
Return of the CL, albeit now with four doors
By Staff, Canadian Auto PressMay 27, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )
Return of a Legend? The last Acura coupe to grace our roads was the CL, a sporty little two-door that had about as much visual appeal as the Accord it was based on. No wonder it didn’t make as much of an impact as the Legend Coupe that preceded it.
Acura has learned a thing or two about standing out from the crowd since these early, conservative days. Whether you like its new “shield” inspired design language or not, Acura now wears an easily recognizable face that pushes the styling envelope to extreme edges while dividing the masses into two love it or lump it piles. Therefore the brand is ripe for a new take on the two-door, and one that will reportedly share underpinnings with the recently introduced ZDX crossover.
And like the ZDX, Honda’s premium brand will be following a European forerunner into a new market niche, not branding a trail of its own. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that, and in respect of the latter four-door coupe segment, a safer bet than the ZDX, which might get bashed about on the big uncharted waves of the five-door with hatch crossover sports car niche; only BMW’s X6 surfs these waters so far.
Most likely renamed the CL, the new model will slot in between the TSX and TL, but will likely be priced nearer to the larger Acura as it will go up against Volkswagen’s stylish and fully-featured CC.
Expect Acura’s Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) and the brand’s new 3.7-litre V6, plus Motion Adaptive EPS.
If this is more than an artist’s rendering and associated blog banter we should see the resurrected CL later this year in Los Angeles or at the Detroit auto show in early January.
source: http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Fou...340/story.html
07-21-2009, 02:44 PM
#1845
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What bothers me most about Acura's insistance on FWD is not that the front wheels are driven... it's that the front overhangs are just HUGE. All the cars are starting to look like rhinos.
The main reason I decided to go for an A4 is that here's a car that doesn't have that problem, it doesn't have the huge nose.
The main reason I decided to go for an A4 is that here's a car that doesn't have that problem, it doesn't have the huge nose.
07-21-2009, 03:27 PM
#1846
Burning Brakes
Dom, I completely agree with you. I would like to see Acura have a platform, engine and tranny that isn't avail in a Honda product (2.3 turbo doesn't count) in some related form.
07-21-2009, 03:35 PM
#1847
Senior Moderator
“It would be meaningless to emulate what other companies have been doing for more than five decades.”
Honda needs to pioneer new territory, Ito said.
Honda needs to pioneer new territory, Ito said.
And like the ZDX, Honda’s premium brand will be following a European forerunner into a new market niche, not branding a trail of its own.
07-21-2009, 03:39 PM
#1848
Senior Moderator
uh-ooh
Four-door coupe on the way from Acura?
Return of the CL, albeit now with four doors
By Staff, Canadian Auto PressMay 27, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )
Return of a Legend? The last Acura coupe to grace our roads was the CL, a sporty little two-door that had about as much visual appeal as the Accord it was based on. No wonder it didn’t make as much of an impact as the Legend Coupe that preceded it.
Acura has learned a thing or two about standing out from the crowd since these early, conservative days. Whether you like its new “shield” inspired design language or not, Acura now wears an easily recognizable face that pushes the styling envelope to extreme edges while dividing the masses into two love it or lump it piles. Therefore the brand is ripe for a new take on the two-door, and one that will reportedly share underpinnings with the recently introduced ZDX crossover.
And like the ZDX, Honda’s premium brand will be following a European forerunner into a new market niche, not branding a trail of its own. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that, and in respect of the latter four-door coupe segment, a safer bet than the ZDX, which might get bashed about on the big uncharted waves of the five-door with hatch crossover sports car niche; only BMW’s X6 surfs these waters so far.
Most likely renamed the CL, the new model will slot in between the TSX and TL, but will likely be priced nearer to the larger Acura as it will go up against Volkswagen’s stylish and fully-featured CC.
Expect Acura’s Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) and the brand’s new 3.7-litre V6, plus Motion Adaptive EPS.
If this is more than an artist’s rendering and associated blog banter we should see the resurrected CL later this year in Los Angeles or at the Detroit auto show in early January.
source: http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Fou...340/story.html
Four-door coupe on the way from Acura?
Return of the CL, albeit now with four doors
By Staff, Canadian Auto PressMay 27, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )
Return of a Legend? The last Acura coupe to grace our roads was the CL, a sporty little two-door that had about as much visual appeal as the Accord it was based on. No wonder it didn’t make as much of an impact as the Legend Coupe that preceded it.
Acura has learned a thing or two about standing out from the crowd since these early, conservative days. Whether you like its new “shield” inspired design language or not, Acura now wears an easily recognizable face that pushes the styling envelope to extreme edges while dividing the masses into two love it or lump it piles. Therefore the brand is ripe for a new take on the two-door, and one that will reportedly share underpinnings with the recently introduced ZDX crossover.
And like the ZDX, Honda’s premium brand will be following a European forerunner into a new market niche, not branding a trail of its own. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that, and in respect of the latter four-door coupe segment, a safer bet than the ZDX, which might get bashed about on the big uncharted waves of the five-door with hatch crossover sports car niche; only BMW’s X6 surfs these waters so far.
Most likely renamed the CL, the new model will slot in between the TSX and TL, but will likely be priced nearer to the larger Acura as it will go up against Volkswagen’s stylish and fully-featured CC.
Expect Acura’s Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) and the brand’s new 3.7-litre V6, plus Motion Adaptive EPS.
If this is more than an artist’s rendering and associated blog banter we should see the resurrected CL later this year in Los Angeles or at the Detroit auto show in early January.
source: http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Fou...340/story.html
07-21-2009, 05:23 PM
#1849
Go Big Blue!
^^ Does seem out of left field. Could they be that close to a coupe without anyone getting wind of it? And why a new model to introduce a coupe? Why not do it to an existing product like the TSX/Euro Accord? File this under "BS" until we hear an official or more reliable source.
07-21-2009, 06:24 PM
#1850
^ cause it's cheaper? Honestly if you look at the ZDX and flattened it, voila, there's your new CL 4-door coupe.
07-21-2009, 08:37 PM
#1851
What you just said makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. How does bringing up a tier-1 brand with V8 engines (available in middle-entry offerings, non-RS/S models such as the A5/6, A8, Q7, etc.) disprove my statement that not having a V8 or RWD is a guarantee for failure? You might as well have just responded with "BMW is doing fine the last time I checked" because it has about as much to do in response to my statement as your audi statement does.
You want to prove my statement wrong, then name me a tier-1 brand without a V8 or RWD.
You want to prove my statement wrong, then name me a tier-1 brand without a V8 or RWD.
It is the Global brand prestige that lifted it sells in China/EU/India/Middleast in premium markets.
Honda mistake was they never made Acura as global brand when times were good like late 80s/early 90s and Honda has lead in certain technologies. now it is falling behind in most of tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission. And it certainly lacks the money and time to recover.
I wonder how long Acura is going to survive as separate dealearship/brand. The sooner it exit the better and MDX will not be successful for too long. The only higher priced vehicle moving. The others are too entry level in pricing.
07-21-2009, 09:24 PM
#1852
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V8/RWD has no role play in Audi rise. Most of cars are TFSI/TDI 4 & 6cylinders. and consistently offering Turbo/Quattro/Wagon across the line up not one off affair.
It is the Global brand prestige that lifted it sells in China/EU/India/Middleast in premium markets.
Honda mistake was they never made Acura as global brand when times were good like late 80s/early 90s and Honda has lead in certain technologies. now it is falling behind in most of tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission. And it certainly lacks the money and time to recover.
I wonder how long Acura is going to survive as separate dealearship/brand. The sooner it exit the better and MDX will not be successful for too long. The only higher priced vehicle moving. The others are too entry level in pricing.
It is the Global brand prestige that lifted it sells in China/EU/India/Middleast in premium markets.
Honda mistake was they never made Acura as global brand when times were good like late 80s/early 90s and Honda has lead in certain technologies. now it is falling behind in most of tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission. And it certainly lacks the money and time to recover.
I wonder how long Acura is going to survive as separate dealearship/brand. The sooner it exit the better and MDX will not be successful for too long. The only higher priced vehicle moving. The others are too entry level in pricing.
How do you think a tier-1 brand image is started? It's by offering LUXURY amenities that one does not need, but wants. You said it yourself, "tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission". Yes, this is ALL required to develop brand image to rise to tier-1 brand image. BUt when your "engine" is lacking, you ain't going to rise to tier-1. You talk about global image, but you're not going to be able to get a global image unless you actually achieve an image in at least one of your main markets which Acura has failed to do.
It's like a freakin advanced physics class...a prereq to get into the class is at least an A in physics 101, which everyone in the class had. Acura has a B in physics 101, but A's in every other class. Getting into the class is no guarantee of success, but Acura doesn't even have what it takes to get into the class. Until they offer AT LEAST the common things that all other tier-1 automakers offer, all the things you mentioned above which INCLUDE a V8 engine, they won't ever have a chance to be considered a tier-1 brand.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 07-21-2009 at 09:26 PM.
07-21-2009, 09:53 PM
#1853
Senior Moderator
As I stated in the RL forum yesterday, I have officially lost all hope that the 3G RL will have V8/RWD. I hope they at least give us a DI or turbo/biturbo V6 hi-po model.
I understand that projects like this take a back seat during times in which survival is essential, though. Honda/Acura certainly knows what they are doing as even though they lost money like all other automakers (other than Subaru), they are not bankrupt and not in danger of it.
Even so, what do enthusiasts have to look forward to at Acura? I see nothing on the horizon.
I am hoping my CTS-V lasts long enough for Acura to change its mind about some of these cancellations.
07-21-2009, 09:57 PM
#1854
Burning Brakes
The direction they are going in is horrible. I first noticed this when they took away the rsx and replaced it with the rdx, I still see more rsx then rdx. The new zdx really annoyed me, what is the difference in the market between the rdx? Why do crossover enthusiast get so many options? IMO Crossovers are the most god awful things ever created, they ALL remind me of the pontiac aztec. I cannot see the logic behind a person buying one it does not make sense. They do not go off road and the dont have as much room as an suv. What is wrong with station wagons they look better, get better gass milage and have just as much space.
This no v8 or rwd may not be as bad a you all think. Most Porsche do not have v8s and some of their cars have awd. Maybe honda is looking to make something to compete with porsche and the gtr v6 awd. (In my dreams)
This no v8 or rwd may not be as bad a you all think. Most Porsche do not have v8s and some of their cars have awd. Maybe honda is looking to make something to compete with porsche and the gtr v6 awd. (In my dreams)
Last edited by brizey; 07-21-2009 at 10:01 PM.
07-22-2009, 12:01 AM
#1855
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Audi's may be fwd based, but when they mount the engine longitudinally instead of transversely, they can squeeze the engine back away from the front slightly as well as improve weight distribution...not to the point of equally a RWD car, but much better than Acura's insistence on transversely mounted engines.
07-22-2009, 01:13 AM
#1856
6G TLX-S
Well, first no NSX-replacement. Now, no V8, no RWD.
What's next on the chopping board ? ... no DSI ? ... no dual-clutch auto ? ... no DOHC V6 ? ... no everything ?
How the f??k is the Acura brand gonna get to Tier-1 ? Looks like my l..o..n..g wait for a better Acura replacement to my TL-S is finally over with Acura.
What's next on the chopping board ? ... no DSI ? ... no dual-clutch auto ? ... no DOHC V6 ? ... no everything ?
How the f??k is the Acura brand gonna get to Tier-1 ? Looks like my l..o..n..g wait for a better Acura replacement to my TL-S is finally over with Acura.
07-22-2009, 01:29 AM
#1857
6G TLX-S
Most of the cars sold may be 4cyl, but AT LEAST they offer V8 engines. That's the point, OFFERING a V8.
How do you think a tier-1 brand image is started? It's by offering LUXURY amenities that one does not need, but wants. You said it yourself, "tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission". Yes, this is ALL required to develop brand image to rise to tier-1 brand image. BUt when your "engine" is lacking, you ain't going to rise to tier-1. You talk about global image, but you're not going to be able to get a global image unless you actually achieve an image in at least one of your main markets which Acura has failed to do.
It's like a freakin advanced physics class...a prereq to get into the class is at least an A in physics 101, which everyone in the class had. Acura has a B in physics 101, but A's in every other class. Getting into the class is no guarantee of success, but Acura doesn't even have what it takes to get into the class. Until they offer AT LEAST the common things that all other tier-1 automakers offer, all the things you mentioned above which INCLUDE a V8 engine, they won't ever have a chance to be considered a tier-1 brand.
How do you think a tier-1 brand image is started? It's by offering LUXURY amenities that one does not need, but wants. You said it yourself, "tech/design/efficient capacity/engines/transmission". Yes, this is ALL required to develop brand image to rise to tier-1 brand image. BUt when your "engine" is lacking, you ain't going to rise to tier-1. You talk about global image, but you're not going to be able to get a global image unless you actually achieve an image in at least one of your main markets which Acura has failed to do.
It's like a freakin advanced physics class...a prereq to get into the class is at least an A in physics 101, which everyone in the class had. Acura has a B in physics 101, but A's in every other class. Getting into the class is no guarantee of success, but Acura doesn't even have what it takes to get into the class. Until they offer AT LEAST the common things that all other tier-1 automakers offer, all the things you mentioned above which INCLUDE a V8 engine, they won't ever have a chance to be considered a tier-1 brand.
Similarly, the R- and RS- lines are not volume sellers. The sole purpose of the existence of these "supercar" lines and the V8 engine option is to build image : model image and brand image. Without them, the Audi brand is just as lame as the VW brand, exactly like the current Acura and Honda brands relationship. These are the ingredients to elevate the Audi brand to the current Tier-1 status.
07-22-2009, 05:51 AM
#1858
10th Gear
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in canada
09 g37s coupe - 37k after taxes
09 pontiac g8 gt - 28k after taxes
my 08 tl - 39k after taxes (granted im paying 475 lease for the next 2 years)
I'm trying to get rid of my tl ASAP so i can buy a pontiac g8. Other than the hideous pontiac logo, I love the feel..
09 g37s coupe - 37k after taxes
09 pontiac g8 gt - 28k after taxes
my 08 tl - 39k after taxes (granted im paying 475 lease for the next 2 years)
I'm trying to get rid of my tl ASAP so i can buy a pontiac g8. Other than the hideous pontiac logo, I love the feel..
07-22-2009, 05:52 AM
#1859
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Absolutely correct. Audi generously offers V8 engine options in most of it's vehicle lines, even though the bulk of it's sales is V6 equipped.
Similarly, the R- and RS- lines are not volume sellers. The sole purpose of the existence of these "supercar" lines and the V8 engine option is to build image : model image and brand image. Without them, the Audi brand is just as lame as the VW brand, exactly like the current Acura and Honda brands relationship. These are the ingredients to elevate the Audi brand to the current Tier-1 status.
Similarly, the R- and RS- lines are not volume sellers. The sole purpose of the existence of these "supercar" lines and the V8 engine option is to build image : model image and brand image. Without them, the Audi brand is just as lame as the VW brand, exactly like the current Acura and Honda brands relationship. These are the ingredients to elevate the Audi brand to the current Tier-1 status.
I hate those commercials. It pisses me off to own a honda.
07-22-2009, 07:05 AM
#1860
Suzuka Master
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I understand that projects like this take a back seat during times in which survival is essential, though. Honda/Acura certainly knows what they are doing as even though they lost money like all other automakers (other than Subaru), they are not bankrupt and not in danger of it.
07-22-2009, 07:41 AM
#1861
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Say what you will about Infiniti not doing as good as Acura, or the G8 being a Pontiac. But, the bottom line is that the G8 and pretty much any car Infiniti has, are way more fun to drive than anything Acura has to offer. I dont care who's selling as much as i care about the driving experience.
07-22-2009, 07:57 AM
#1862
Senior Moderator
I find it hard to believe that a car that starts at $45,200 (G37 coupe) can be had for 37K after taxes.
07-22-2009, 08:53 AM
#1863
Changin bulbs since '73
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Again, if you notice everyone uses and the words Acura/Honda interchangeibly(?). That is the problem. There is no difference. A luxury car buyer always looks for a little more exclusivity conciously or unconciously. You feel stupid for buying a tarted up lesser version of the same car. Lexus and Toyota hardly get mashed together like that. Infiniti is getting better at it. No one EVER talks about the fact that a Passat and A4 are the same underneath.
The ZDX will fail...to small of a niche and ugly
4 door coupe...we will have to see.
Why couldn't they offer the TSX w/ V6 AND AWD.....that would be awesome. That car still looks okay compared next to it's stable mates. THat would be a car that would be a great entry level luxuy car that really competes.
The ZDX will fail...to small of a niche and ugly
4 door coupe...we will have to see.
Why couldn't they offer the TSX w/ V6 AND AWD.....that would be awesome. That car still looks okay compared next to it's stable mates. THat would be a car that would be a great entry level luxuy car that really competes.
same old same old.
07-22-2009, 03:01 PM
#1866
Pro
I'm OK with Honda's decision. It's tough times in the Auto market. They can always change their mind when there's more money.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
What Honda and Acura doesn't have is high performance cars. I think Honda has decided to walk away from that segment.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
What Honda and Acura doesn't have is high performance cars. I think Honda has decided to walk away from that segment.
07-22-2009, 06:01 PM
#1867
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2010 MDX/ZDX 6SPD Auto Tranny Issues
Well folks, apparently it's happened already. I thought the release of the MDX was being pushed back a couple months because the US still had too many to sell. After speaking with someone today, who is a manager of an Acura dealership and a friend of an employee at the Allison Ontario plant, it's been said that there's been some problems so far with the new 6 speed automatic transmission that's going to be part of the MDX and ZDX. All I know is that they better fix this issue soon! Who the hell is going to want to buy an 09 MDX come October/November/December while all others have their 2010's in? If that's the case, we'll be seeing some MAJOR trading dollars (factory incentives) to throw at potential MDX owners to buy an 09.
- to Acura's history of developing new trannys!
- to Acura's history of developing new trannys!
07-22-2009, 06:06 PM
#1868
The sizzle in the Steak
Gonna need more than 2nd hand word of mouth for me to believe this.
07-22-2009, 06:09 PM
#1869
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07-22-2009, 10:32 PM
#1871
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Even if true, at least they're taking care of it before it goes on sale instead of insisting that they never heard of the problem even though everyone and their mother had or knew someone who had a tranny fail, only to finally issue a recall of pretty much every 5spd auto equipped honda (odyssey, TL, accord, etc. etc.).
07-22-2009, 11:01 PM
#1872
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07-23-2009, 12:25 AM
#1873
Race Director
I'm OK with Honda's decision. It's tough times in the Auto market. They can always change their mind when there's more money.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
07-23-2009, 02:04 AM
#1874
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
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Yeah, but at Honda, projects like this also take a back seat during good times. How many years of "good times" did they have, breaking records left and right, that they could have AT LEAST updated the NSX? by my count, they had over a decade and they still couldn't pull it off. maybe they're engineering the next gen ASIMO as a transformer that can turn into an NSX...they had the freakin time and money for it.
07-23-2009, 02:07 AM
#1875
6G TLX-S
That's exactly the problem with Acura. Available high performance vehicles is one of the MUST's which enable a luxury auto brand to become a true Tier-1 luxury auto brand.
07-23-2009, 02:07 AM
#1876
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I'm OK with Honda's decision. It's tough times in the Auto market. They can always change their mind when there's more money.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
What Honda and Acura doesn't have is high performance cars. I think Honda has decided to walk away from that segment.
If I want RWD there are plenty of choices. When I want a relatively cheap and reliable car, Honda also has some options. I don't care for the Acura cars now mostly because of the design, but if people can look past that, an AWD premium sedan from Acura is still not a bad choice, there're pros and cons between Acura and Audi.
What Honda and Acura doesn't have is high performance cars. I think Honda has decided to walk away from that segment.
07-23-2009, 03:13 AM
#1877
Well, to be fair, they updated the NSX to make it go from a 14s car to a 12.5s car in the 1/4 mile. They updated it so that its lap time at Nurburgring is 7:56 instead of over 8:20 so that it matches the 996 911 GT3 with 360hp or the C5 Z06 with 400hp. May be that's not enough?
Unfortunately they only offer high performance, fun to drive cars in Japan, namely the FD2 CTR that would run circles around the S2k Type S with ease and easily keep up with a Nismo Z with well over 300hp at Tsukuba; while leaving Lan Evo, FD RX7, NSX S Zero, and R34 GTR in the dust at Suzuka. Too bad it's not available here.
Later on in the NSX's life there were many more new, more affordable cars (like a 911) that offered similar or better performance for less, or with more prestige. The value prospect of the NSX that made Ferrari dramatically step up its game in the 90's was all but gone. Though the NSX design is timeless, 98% of all people probably think it hadn't changed or changed very little over its lifespan, MMC aside. Hell, here we are on an car enthusiast forum and the guy you quoted said it changed relatively little throughout its life. Though the NSX had a number of significant changes over the year, it just wasn't enough.
And even still.... though the only Type-R I've driven is an ITR, many of them are not suitable daily drivers. It was drivable alright, but no radio? No A/C? No thanks. For anything besides a track-dedicated race car, I doubt the CTR would have a ride compliant enough and enough amenities and at the right price. The Mugen Si itself was already $30,000, a price which made many enthusiasts laugh and think,
Even though it does outperform a Nismo 350Z, most people shopping around in the $30,000 range even (imagine how sensitive the brand whores are when shopping for a $100k car) will think, why the hell would I buy a Civic over X car?
07-23-2009, 06:41 AM
#1878
10th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2008
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my friend just purchased one last month for stated price. I know he paid in cash though.
07-23-2009, 08:03 AM
#1879
Go Big Blue!
^^ It could easily be true. The floodgates are opening now as this recession continues. Dealers are starting to run out of emergency cash to ride this out. Manufacturers are starting to step up and giving dealers cash incentives on sales. They are passing it to customers. I suspect it will grow as the fall approaches.
You can get a $40k TL for about $33k. Want an 09 MB E350? MB is offering a $10k dealer incentive until 7/31 !!!!! I'm not a big MB fan, but I'm probably going to go down to my MB dealer and look at them. Maybe trade in my 07 RL if I can get it for Invoice minus $10k
You can get a $40k TL for about $33k. Want an 09 MB E350? MB is offering a $10k dealer incentive until 7/31 !!!!! I'm not a big MB fan, but I'm probably going to go down to my MB dealer and look at them. Maybe trade in my 07 RL if I can get it for Invoice minus $10k
07-23-2009, 06:42 PM
#1880
6G TLX-S
.....
You can get a $40k TL for about $33k. Want an 09 MB E350? MB is offering a $10k dealer incentive until 7/31 !!!!! I'm not a big MB fan, but I'm probably going to go down to my MB dealer and look at them. Maybe trade in my 07 RL if I can get it for Invoice minus $10k