VTEC Racer

No offense, but what goal are you trying to achieve by spending your time here?

What kind of car(s) do you even drive?

VTEC Racer

I agree.

The European Accord (our TSX) is not anything like our USDM Accord. Accord in Europe has much more "panache" in Europe than it does in the US. The European Accord is regularly compared against the 3-series, C-class and A4 + Passat. The Accord was always built and designed to compete with those cars and it does quite well. In fact, the entire Honda brand as a whole is considered more upscale than your typical mainstream brand. I would say it is like what VW is (or I should say used to be) in the U.S.

Anyone who calls the TSX a cheap move just goes to show that they don't know anything about cars. The European Accord was even neutered before it was brought over as the TSX. There is technology in the European Accord that no other car in the U.S. even has. Honda and Acura worked on the development of the TSX together. The car was built to be an upscale car from the ground up.

Calling it a cheap move makes no sense if you actually know anything about the car.

KillerG

to elaborate on this man's last point^

the euro CU2 accord has power folding mirrors, headlight washers, CMBS radar tech, bi-xenon headlights, front parking sensors, lighted doorsills, and lighted paddle shifters

None of these options are available in the US for the Acura TSX

ttribe

So, Honda cheapened the Euro Accord, slapped a TSX badge on it and imported it to the U.S. to sell under its so-called lux brand moniker - Acura. Nice.

VTEC Racer

Don't forget the ADAS system which is basically auto-pilot for cars. It is an awesome feature which will probably never make it to the states due to liability.

Fibonacci

Pestered one of my industry insider connections to borrow a press pass next Monday. If it is allowed, I'll snap a few pics and post here.

Consider me curious about this supposed "NSX", but gonna pop a bottle of the finest asti spumante for my boy Moogs if this thing tops my admittedly low expectations.

savage

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/05/t...icles-of-2011/

Acura is #1 at something!

KillerG

Yes, yes they did, but the Euro Accord is also more expensive than the U.S. TSX; removing features, while sad , helped to price the TSX very competitively in its niche pseudo-segment, and like discussed many times, if it was more expensive, it would get steamrolled by the German's

full disclosure: i own a tsx 09, and one of it's biggest selling points was it's price, and i can vouch that that's the case for many others in the 2G forum as well

VTEC Racer

Not only that but back in early 2008 when the 2nd gen TSX was released, most of the items that were decontented from the TSX were barely found on S-class level cars (7-Series, A8), let alone on TSX level cars.

pttl

They were also the only mfgr. to have 2 cars on the list.

Legend2TL

Yeah cause you're such a automotive genius


Then you should go over and tell the exec's at MB and Jaguar your infinite wisdom in the car industry

Both current Maybach's are based off the MB S-class (W140 and W221) platform for chassis, suspension, and drivetrain. Similar story for the Jaguar S-type and XF are based off the DEW chassis with Ford also used for the Lincoln LS and Thunderbird. Add into that the Audi/VW couplings as well. These are major platform reuse, it just all depends on the level of reuse. Some go extensive (G8 and TSX), others not as much.

But please go tell MB and Jaguar, they need someone of your knowledge.

Legend2TL

That's a shame Honda decontentized some of the upper end Euro Accord features. Some of those are fairly low-cost to design and produce.

Legend2TL

A UK Accord EX is ~$42K new today (~27K UK Pound).

Sorta related but some features on my 3G TL are not only not seen easily (ie Al front sub-frame, and Torsen-type diff) but much moe expensive then some easy items that are very visible (ie LED turnsignals in mirrors).

A great modern auto tale of designing to a cost target is the C5/6 vette. The head manager came from Cadillac (his previous project Allente) and the chief designer from Pontiac (previous project Aztek)to replace the C4 team. So two guys coming from those very so-so cars head up the next Vette design in the 90's.

The manager would like to use the Northstar motor but that would blow his BOM budget but he holds firm on the rear tranaxle that would allow a much better weight distribution as to compete in their market-space even though no Vette in the past ever had one. The cost of tooling and manufacturing a exclusive rear transaxle that can't be used elsewhere in GM goes up to the senior exec's and IIRC the board who have to approve the expenditure (a similar tale occured for the straight six cast iron block motor in the E46 M3).

All of know the rest of the tale on how the C5/6 go on to become an amazing success, the writeup on it's development was a article in the Wall Street Journal back around the time the C6 was coming out. Great American car success story.

ttribe

It's 2012 now.

KillerG

The year changed?

Acura didn't release a brand new TSX already????

ttribe

Do you really think that was my point? The fact is many of these "features" are available on a Kia now. Things have changed and Acura isn't the "value proposition" it once was. The company has thoroughly failed to keep up with the market. This is made all the more glaring by the fact that they didn't have to release a "new" TSX; they already have one sold overseas that they could just downscale less and they would be in a better competitive position.

KillerG

It's not like they sit at the factory kicking parts off the euro accord to make it the US TSX.

All of the different parts that go into the euro TSX require many different internals to function (ecu, wiring harnesses, etc), and its not as simple as some guy sitting there saying "let's not remove this this year guys!!11." Re-adding and reworking the car to make with certain features is most likely more expensive than it seems.


Yes, the car market has evolved, and many new features are available on lower end cars, but this doesn't mean that Acura has "thoroughly failed to keep up with the market", keep in mind that in the time since the TSX was originally designed (2007) Kia has also released 5 (!) brand new models (three in 2010 if i remember correctly).

Let's take the current 3 series for example, it's got a dated interior, and by god is it boring. Mercedes C300, on the other hand, just got a gorgeous interior refresh, does this mean that BMW has thoroughly failed to keep up with the market?

No.

ttribe

I'm just not seeing it. Different harness? Use the one from the Euro Accord. Different ECU? Use the one from the Euro Accord or re-program (not THAT expensive). ALL of the parts are already there.

My "thoroughly failed" comment extends across the entire brand. The TSX is just magnifying their laziness with the fact that there's a readily upgradeable version already in existence.

In some ways - yes, they have. There are quite a few things that bother me about the way BMW does things on its cars. That, of course, is beside the point insomuch as it's without dispute that Acura is getting killed in the market for their bad decisions.

VTEC Racer

Haven't you heard? Kia now offers an auto-steer system like Honda's ADAS, Bi-xenon headlights, power-folding side-view mirrors, headlamp washers, and whatever else you can think of that Acura DOESN'T have. All of this is included for less than $20k, with a world class interior to boot! Kia

VTEC Racer

Don't forget about BMW who went the "lazy and cheap" route when they recycled the 7-series chassis to use for the Rolls Royce Ghost.

ttribe

No reason to be snarky. Many of the things that set the 3G TL and the 2G TSX apart from the competition (i.e. bluetooth, voice controlled nav, etc.) are now showing up on low-end cars. Acura has not stayed ahead of the curve.

VTEC Racer

Don't forget to mention all the other stuff that Acura has that Kia also has now. Things such as Collision Mitigation Braking System, Adaptive Laser Cruise Control, Blind Spot Warning System, Driver-Adjustable Active Magnetic Damper System, GPS-linked Climate Control System, Torque-Vectoring All Wheel Drive System, Discrete-Channel Sound System, Active Front Headlights, Cooled Seats...

Man, we are so lucky to live in a day and age where we can get all this stuff on low-end cars now, for FREE!!

Acura, you have nothing against low-end cars. Kia

ttribe

I'll tell you what - I'll start responding to you again when you decide to act like a grown up. Just let me know.

Legend2TL

Thanks, I didn't know that.

SlimTL

http://www.acura.com/FutureVehicles.aspx

SlimTL

So far:

1. RDX... has been redesigned with push button start, V6, and it looks pretty sweet!
2. ILX ... new model. Reminds me of a new age 4 door Integra, or a TSX baby brother.
3. NSX ... Officially revealed. It's hotttt.

More info pending per Acura. That's all I could gather from the feed so far in this short time.

dom

I see Acura's back to their tradition of using ugly wheels. All 3 concepts have terrible wheels on them.

ILX looks, good, very 1st gen TSX esque. But only a MT on the 2.4. Big mistake IMO.

Moog-Type-S

ILX sketchy at best.....I dunno if bringing the Acura brand that low and that close to Honda is a good thing. Everyone already views Acura as Honda version 1.2....hmmmmm.

Sclass88

I could only watch, not listen while at work; all three looked great! Very pleased. Was there any word of the TSX or TL being killed off? I think the ILX and TSX could both target different markets. The ILX is smaller for sure and targets a different group so it would make sense for Acura to keep the TSX.

Can anyone confirm? I'm hoping the TSX isn't on the chopping block...

KillerG

+1 on shitty wheel choice

RDX. hopefully it helps em with their sales goal, looks nice

ILX, not too impressed, and we know that the production version is gonna have nothing like 19s on it

NSX, sweet baby jesus, im an atheist but im ready to BELIEVE

Colin

At the very least, it will continue is current production run before a decision is made. But I don't think they need 4 sedans. Shrink the TL and combine the two cars into one vehicle.

CarbonGray Earl

After looking further at the ILX, it looks a bit on the small side. Like the IS250/350.

If I were to buy it, I'd buy the 2.4 liter 6 speed version, but I wonder which 2.0 liter they'll be putting in and what transmission they'll use.

K20 with Earth dreams stepped CVT perhaps?

Moog-Type-S

^^ CVT?!?! oh please NO!!!!

CarbonGray Earl

from what I've read, they've done their tricks to make it less CVT like. Bigger, stronger belt, stepped so it doesn't feel like a CVT...

But ya, I feel the same way. My wife has a CVT in her company car and it sucks...

Xpditor

Why are they hanging on to that cow-catcher nose?

Don't tell me that the NSX is going to be powered by a turbocharged 4/hybrid electic.

ttribe

Announcement said a 6 for the NSX.

dom

RDX looks 1000x better than the current model. Looks like a big winner.

Sclass88

I'm excited for Acura right now. Looks promising.

Colin

Love the new C-pillar angle!

this is me

Quite disappointing with this News from Acura. I'm looking for a replacement vehicle for my 03 TL-S(140K original miles) and have been waiting for this announcement. We already have the 2010 TL in the family so I was REALLY hoping for the desperately needed update on the RL. The RL has no appeal over the TL in terms of price, performance, and features. I'm left with the 2013 GS350 F-Sport now.

ILX reminds me of the CSX for Canada. It's a Honda Civic rebadged with an Acura.