Acura TL Builder

The fish bit the bait!

The thing about reviewers is that like statistics and independent studies, the company paying the most will get the best results.

I have literature from Acura themselves stating this.

Here is 5.1s 0-60:
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/acura/...s-ar15933.html

fiatlux

Where did they get that number from? Did they actually test the car themselves or did they just pull numbers out of thin air? I'd like to see the actual Acura literature that says this. You got a link to an actual Acura document or page?

Acura TL Builder

They must have pulled it from thin air, like C&D did for their 5.5s finding.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...0000-to-40000/

Acura TL Builder

I’m interested as to how you talk down upon a car you have never owned.

fiatlux

5.5 is a hell of a long distance from 5.1 my man.

fiatlux

Who said anything about talking down about it? I actually really really like the TL Type-S, but even I know it is NOT a 5.1s 0-60 car. To believe that to be true is so far beyond fanboy delusions.

sonyfever

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...0000-to-40000/

C&D had 5.5, though I don't know how good the old numbers compare to recent ones. Regardless, 07 TL-S is definitely not a low-5 car.

Acura TL Builder

So is 5.8 compared to 5.5.

Acura TL Builder

Yes, the measurement of time has changed in the universe!

Much like when the measurement of HP changed in the 2000s!

fiatlux

Here ya go ya dummy: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...hange-rollout/

Acura TL Builder

If your upset enough to begin self-projecting your level of intelligence. This isn’t the band of brainiacs I assumed were here.

sonyfever

Make fun of C&D for changing the procedure, if that is what you like to do. TL-S is a great car for its time but time has moved on.

BEAR-AvHistory

What some of you guys do not understand is the Germans Fu**en CHEAT. They under rate the horspower & with the new models they are tucking this into the drive train.

If you had read the whole story is 0-60 performance is summed up in this sentence.
"But it's a fully modern design, incorporating a 48-volt hybrid system with an electric motor-generator that can add up to 21 horsepower and 184 pound-feet to assist the engine while the turbo spools up."

One comment in one of the C&D pieces they expect the M340 to be looking at 3.5 to 60 with the electric package.

Both MB & BMW are doing this. Its an easy swap for them because with the ZF8 you can replace the torque converter with an electric motor. You also have the basic design the a inline 6 is better than a V6 for performance. Toyota also have a joint venture with Mazda to start building I6 turbos

Not sure what Audi is doing but they also have IIRC a ZF8.

EasyLoveRDX

With all these new tricks to make turbos spool faster etc, I'm wondering how well these German cars will tolerate aftermarket mods and upgrades. I've heard that BMWs will blow up if you try to do any sort of performance tuning to them, but that could have just been folks talking trash at car meetups.

For not a whole lot more than the cost of a used 2018+ Accord 2.0T, you could get it to 450+ HP with a turbo swap and intake/intercooler/downpipe kit. Luxury car? No, but faster than a stock MB/BMW with a turbo 6? Absolutely.
Final P600 Dyno Testing (Accord & Type-R) - PRL Army Blog

BEAR-AvHistory

Been driving modified BMW's since 2011. The 135IS JB4 6MT is now 9 years old. None have blown up or sustained any engine damage. BMW Factory "S" variants of the 3.0L I6 are making 503BHP is some "M" models. My 320BHP (Crank Power) 335IS was tuned to 410WHP ran for 3 years till sold. See the car at an occasional AutoX & its still running the same engine, equipment I sold it with.

Anyone who breaks an N54/55 or B58 engine is just Dumb A** Stupid.

Current Z4 M40i is not modified & most likely will not be as at WOT it can't hold traction in 1st at launch or at the 1/2 shift slight chirp in the 2/3 shift. Has performance compound 275X35X19 rear tires. Its maxed out from the showroom floor unless I want to work over the chassis/suspension.

csmeance

Aftermarket tunes certainly decrease component life in the engines. I believe it's "Ring Taxi" who has videos on youtube of Robert Kubica taking out a rental M4 on Nurburgring and talking about the impact it has on a car. In the video they mentioned that the turbos were failing and needing replacement much more often due to the tunes from aftermarket sector vs factory tunes. They explained it very well, but you do have to remember this is on a tracked car and not daily driven car.

Those engines can be stout, it's the brittle plastic that'll get some folks; I hated dealing with all the plastic bits breaking on my BMW from the heat cycling.

jhb31

..

leomio85

The Accord's transmission was not happy at those power levels. It would be a very short lifespan at those power levels if it was seeing slippage and they simply dialed it back to keep it from exploding right there on the dyno. Adding a trans cooler would help, but only delay the inevitable.

Also, they were using 110 Octane fuel. Even the folks using E85, E50, etc blends ... who the fuck wants to deal with that on a daily driver? E85 is more available than it used to be 10yrs ago, but I still wouldn't want to limit myself to a handful of gas stations in a 100mi radius. And, obviously, 110 Octane is just ridiculously pointless. I get it, it's showing what the powertrains on these cars are capable of, but it's not applicable to the real world.

As for the Bimmers ... they've had a number of issues that could potentially lead to catastrophic engine failures. Rod bearings, VANOS pumps, spun crank hubs, etc etc. That's not to mention the fact that most of their tubing is hard recycled plastics that become unbelievably brittle after a few years. Germany ... engineering their cars to not last too long. But, for the most part, they can take loads of power. A drift team allegedly was able to make over 1,000HP out of a stock bottom end S58.

That being said, everybody that flaunts Japanese reliability and then bumps their power levels by 50%+ over factory make me laugh. "Civic Type-R all day, brah. FBO + tune still not as fast as y0 V8, but it be mo' reliable, sonnnn". Yea, not at all.

BEAR-AvHistory

Curious what plastic parts were dying on your car? The 135IS is 9 years old & have only had one plastic engine part fail. The charge pipe that brings high pressure air to the throttle body.

This is a common fail as a tune can increase the boost pressure up to 100% & well past any safety margin designed into it. After market alloy tubes are available as a direct replacement for $130.

Also ran an alloy one on the 335is.

Agree performance increases will decrease longevity. That said most tuned cars are limited to a light tune unless you want to change turbos. Don't think BMW'S Nürburgring rental program is a good example as the cars are running full out all the time on one of the most demanding tracks in the world.

Here’s Why A Lap With BMW M3 Nurburgring Taxi Is So Expensive

Most of the street mod turbo issues are the factory turbos are too small to support major power increases. Would say 100HP at the wheels is a good limit for a pure factory car. They just can't move enough air at high engine RPM to support more power. Its the penalty for reducing turbo lag in a street car. Guys wanting more top end power swap the turbos out as part of a FBO mod.

Be interesting with them pulling the torque converter for an electric motor to kill lag if they will increase the size of the turbo/turbos for more horsepower.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I've done enough research in the past and current to tell you that those guys with blown engines went with an aggressive tune with or without supporting mods. This can be said about ANY vehicle with ANY tune. That's why I said "Anyone can tune their vehicle but is it within the safe limits and is the tune reliable?!". I know as enthusiasts, the need for mo powwaa baby can and is an addiction. When I put my TL and M40i on rollers, the shop owner told me "Do not obsess about the outcome" "I've seen people drive themselves nuts over numbers". The fact of the matter is, they are just numbers and a lot of variables play into those numbers. I was pretty shocked that my TL put down as much as it did considering it's running on the stock fuel setup with the Comptech ACM.

When I reflash tuned both of my BMW's, I did extensive research on different tunes. Most of the forum members went with the BM3 tune which is more aggressive than what I went with. I went with a very mild stage 1 reflash tune for the fact that I own these vehicles and I plan on keeping them for as long as I can. Getting to my point with your Accord post. At 450 WHP to the front wheels, at a dig, it's worthless. Its a beast from a roll. As leomio said, they had to dial it back because the transmission wasn't long for the road. And that's where my point is. More power, more wear and tear. More things that may need to be upgraded. You're taking a fairly reliable vehicle and now making it unreliable. For that accord, those numbers were only a temp. thing, not for long term.

Bo_Darville

so when the f is the new type-s supposed to be for sale in the US? and when the f are we supposed to see a road test by one of the printed magazines?

jjsC5

Its been so long since they officially announced the car and shown real pictures of it that rumor has it they will now be delayed due to the mid life refresh

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

par the course for acura

TigerEyeJazz

Think about the day the TLX and TLX Type-S were revealed. I’m guessing it’s the 24th of May. It’s a Monday and typically that’s when Acura has their on Sale dates.

Edward'TLS

Why not ? Put off the 2021 TLX Type-S for a couple more months until September. Then release the 2022 Type-S together with the regular 2022 model year TLX.

No need to waste resources setting up factory tooling for the a short 2-3 months duration 2021 TLX Type-S production, then retool again for the 2022 TLX Type-S.

leomio85

As per Acura News, the TLX-S is set to arrive at dealers in late May. I’d expect them to release final production info in early May, with reviews coming out around the same time or about a week or two later.

More than power and performance figures, I really hope they did a good amount to make the drivetrain beefy. There’s a reason the Germans can rip off some incredible times with the power they make. Technology and drivetrains that can take a beating.

BEAR-AvHistory

They can call it a 22 regardless of when they release it.

Edward'TLS

The regular trim 2022 model year TLX (coming this fall) will definitely get lots of fixes and updates (and may be also new features) when compared to the current 2021 TLX, especially it being a first year new generation model.

So if the 2021-TLX-based Type-S were to be named as 2022 TLX Type-S, then will the next model year 2022-TLX-based Type-S to be called 2023 TLX Type-S when both are to be released in this fall ? Or will the 2021-TLX-based 2022 TLX Type-S continue to roll into this fall without all the fixes and updates as implemented on the 2022 regular TLX models ?

This would create too much confusion, both inside Honda and outside in the auto market. The standard way is to use the TLX model year designation that the Type-S is based upon. So if the Type-S is based on the 2021 TLX, then it is named 2021 TLX Type-S, or if the Type-S is based on 2022 TLX, then it should be named 2022 TLX Type-S.

BEAR-AvHistory

Understand what you are saying. That said car companies have a bit of flexibility in assigning the MY number. I custom ordered the car in April 2017. The car was delivered in June 2017. The MY & title were 2018.

So I basically had a 2018 car for 6 months prior to 2018 New Years Day. T

sonyfever

Don't get your exection high. I expect minimum changes, perhaps introducing wireless AA/CP if Acura decide to backport those features to 1st-gen (pfx1.1, MDX is pfx1.3) infotainment unit.

4G-Lover

...no actually I heard that the Type 6 6MT was faster than a 335i....5.1, suuure, dream on....

4G-Lover

No. they pulled out of very heavy air...the air coming out from their behind....5.1...ahahahah Downhill and with a rocket booster strapped to the trunk lid LOL

4G-Lover

No, every tenth you shave in a FWD, the more difficult it gets. I drove few Type S well so I remember the car very well (and its horrendous torque steer)
I'm not going to dispute the C&D 5.5 got (frankly I did not remember any Type S test below 5.8)...lucky day I guess and extremely sticky tires. In reality Type S were not that faster than my 2002 Maxima SE (and my Max has quite less torque steer) of that time and, no matter what C&D numbers got, a 300C was not close...not even slightly close, the Hemi 5.7 would walk all over a Type S it was not even funny...on all season rubber for the Mopar.

The 3G was a nice looking, nice riding FWD sport sedan but it was nothing special will never be a real collectible even in Type S form....maybe 40 years down the road when any decent old car become somehow a "collectible".

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

So Acura retracted their claim about this being their "most powerful sedan" because they couldn't be bothered to tweak it past 377hp, despite all the delays?

Certainly doesn't feel very reassuring about the drivetrain, esp if the NSX can get 573hp out of its twin turbo 3.5, bespoke or not.

Sclyzed

Car is going to be a big let down imo..overhyped all because it's the first in over 10 years

Weights too much.
Not enough power.

ELIN

I would reserve judgment until at least the media gets their hands on it (maybe 2 more weeks?).

No need to fill up speculation threads with unnecessary posts until then.

Legend2TL

C&D tested and
2002 Maxima and got 0-60MPH 6.0, 1/4 14.7 @ 97MPH, skidpad 0.82g, 70-0 182ft
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ake-road-test/
2007 TL Type-S 0-60 5.5, 1/4 14.1 @ 101MPH , skidpad 0.84g, 70-0 169ft
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...0000-to-40000/

So the 3G Type-S 6MT was quite a bit faster than the Maxima SE, as well as better braking and lateral acceleration.

Personal preference (as I still have my '05 3G TL 6MT) but the Nissan interior looked cheap and 90's like (it was a late 90's design carried into the 2000's) compared to the 3G TL. Again personal preference but the 3G TL was far more stylist in exterior design as well. I've driven both (boss had a '07 Type S and friend had a Maxima SE) both had torque steer, but the TL had crisper handling IMO.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I owned a 95 5-Speed maxima which was also running a V2 Stillen supercharger kit and a 2002 Maxima with the 3.5L (automatic / stock) I can firmly tell you, stock for stock, my 2004 6MT TL is quicker than both. I never had the opportunity to dyno the 95 maxima, but it might have been quicker than my TL running the Comptech supercharger. I put down 323 HP on the TL running stock injectors with the Comptech ACM and the fuel being about 6 months old. I might make 330 now since i've upgraded my J-pipe and on the lighter A-spec wheels.

TigerEyeJazz

The 377 HP from the RLX was only achieved by adding in those twin electric engines. If it wasn’t for those it wouldn’t even be at 377Hp. As for the NSX, you are comparing a lightweight $100K plus 3.5TT with electric motors to a sport daily Sedan that’s honestly not a comparison to make.

4G-Lover

The Type S was a little bit faster yes, consider that the Maxima in the test had much less aggressive tires. I also agree that the TL was nicer looking. But let's not forget that the 3G, especially the Type S was quite newer.