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I've always thought the same as you mentioned, who cares about 0-60, it's not like you're going to the track with it(generally speaking) or going to be doing 0-60 at every stop sign and light. Of course you don't want a turtle but more important it's a daily driver, you want comfort and reliability. But mindset of a 30 year old differs from people in their lower 20s, generally speaking. As you grow older you become less of a reckless asshole on the road.
But people have the right to complain on power for a special performance model, like the Type-S imo.
If you’re right, why does Acura go out of their way to emphasize “performance” in every bit of publicity they do on their cars? Why not just say “it’s an everyday appliance of a car with lots of compromises”?
Who is actually doing the math and calculations of physics to see if the car they're buying can beat another? You're looking way too deep into this man. It's ok. Take a break. Your brain hurts. Lol
Yeah....I mean this is an Acura enthusiast site.
People will like and want things that are not completely "rational" and not every decision is based on pure number specs or "spec sheet racing."
But it is a bit amusing to see so many non-Acura fans so frequently and so passionately argue against the new Type-S is such an inferior car compared to so many other cars...I mean maybe we should just all go buy a lightly used Scat Pack for $35k...you get so much more WHP and much more consistent and faster 1/4 miles....you can beat Honda Accord 2.0Ts all day long.
But on the other hand...many of these posters have had prior Acura products (I think) that were good back in the good old days of the early to mid/late 2000s...and that this whole phenomenon is just an expression of the frustration of many who do wish Honda would put out a really big power competitor against the Germans/Japanese/Americans....
I've always thought the same as you mentioned, who cares about 0-60, it's not like you're going to the track with it(generally speaking) or going to be doing 0-60 at every stop sign and light. Of course you don't want a turtle but more important it's a daily driver, you want comfort and reliability. But mindset of a 30 year old differs from people in their lower 20s, generally speaking. As you grow older you become less of a reckless asshole on the road.
But people have the right to complain on power for a special performance model, like the Type-S imo.
So very understandable.
Some people though are just downright insulting towards the brand. Everyone is complaining about the 355hp. I get it. It's not a lot of power for a 3.0 Turbo V6. that's ok. Some people are so adamant about it like the car gods are going to curse them and their unborn offspring if they buy a 355hp turbo V6. Hahahaha! But they're within their rights to voice their opinion/dislike/like/approval/etc. on it. If it was an Ashton Martin, Porsche, or even an AMG with only that much power on their "performance" model, I'd be upset. But it's an entry level luxury model with some "go fast" bits on it. Not a track monster. When they said 355hp, I was like "Oh cool. No worries. That's plenty. Especially when Hondata/KTune comes out with something for it." Most people complaining about the power act like they'll be racing it every day and running up against Hellcats, AMGs, and M3s every second. Come on. The car isn't even out. Lol
People will like and want things that are not completely "rational" and not every decision is based on pure number specs or "spec sheet racing."
But it is a bit amusing to see so many non-Acura fans so frequently and so passionately argue against the new Type-S is such an inferior car compared to so many other cars...I mean maybe we should just all go buy a lightly used Scat Pack for $35k...you get so much more WHP and much more consistent and faster 1/4 miles....you can beat Honda Accord 2.0Ts all day long.
But on the other hand...many of these posters have had prior Acura products (I think) that were good back in the good old days of the early to mid/late 2000s...and that this whole phenomenon is just an expression of the frustration of many who do wish Honda would put out a really big power competitor against the Germans/Japanese/Americans....
If they are going to use German/Japanese/American cars in their adds then have other adds touting performance and more horsepower why is it so hard to expect them to be at least in the performance ball park? The TLX can't even out run its sibling Accord.
Regarding racing to every traffic light. More powerful cars all else being equal TLX-S to TLX are easier to drive, require less throttle to make speed changes & are less stressed in normal driving. You are not talking about moving a light weight bare bones economy car the freak'N thing weighs 2 TONS. My 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham weighted 4062lbs 2 TONS.
1984 Fleetwood Brougham same as mine except for the wire wheels.
If they are going to use German/Japanese/American cars in their adds then have other adds touting performance and more horsepower why is it so hard to expect them to be at least in the performance ball park? The TLX can't even out run its sibling Accord.
Regarding racing to every traffic light. More powerful cars all else being equal TLX-S to TLX are easier to drive, require less throttle to make speed changes & are less stressed in normal driving. You are not talking about moving a light weight bare bones economy car the freak'N thing weighs 2 TONS. My 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham weighted 4062lbs 2 TONS.
I do not disagree.
Hence in my post I also mentioned the frustration of many of us who do wish there would be a bigger competition in the HP department. Me included.
Hence in my post I also mentioned the frustration of many of us who do wish there would be a bigger competition in the HP department. Me included.
Agree I used tie, lose close, beat close my 2004 BMW 330ZHP 6MT convert with my 2006 TL 6MT. Mainly a who was driving which car thing. Never got a 4G, which I had planed to do after I saw it. That said in the performance tests, in many areas, you could cover all the finishers with a handkerchief.
Last current add I saw for the 4 cylinder TLX was how it has more horsepower 272BHP than all the other cars. Never mentioned (Just Joking) that all the others including the 252BHP Honda would outrun it 10 for 10.
They are definitely running a marketing program designed for people who are not car people but are into slick visuals. That what makes waiting for the TYPE-S so interesting. Will it be real or just more add copy?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-22-2021 at 02:58 PM.
With the Type-S coming I've been lurking on this thread and others for the past few weeks but it sure is depressing. I was looking for cautious optimism rather than premature victory laps, but it's turned out to be exactly the opposite lol. From half the posts on here, the new TLX-S is already a massive failure.
I'm waiting for the media tests and official pricing to reserve my full judgement, but I'm pleased with what I've seen so far. If the Type-S handles even better than the already great handling lower trims, hits 60mph in well under 5 seconds, and sticks to the "low 50s" price tag with nearly all of the Advance features it will be an excellent value imho.
As for the competition..
The Type-S is not meant to go after the top-tier German performance models but the watered down M340i, C43 and S4. It is significantly cheaper than the first two and better looking/equipped than the S4. The S5 has much better styling (if you like hatchbacks) and overall is probably the most significant competitor, but it's still under equipped.
A similarly priced AR Giulia is a purist only car that has terrible reliability and far fewer features for the money.
Lexus doesn't really have a Type-S competitor. The IS350 F Sport competes with the A-Spec TLX and the IS500 F competes in that top-tier class above the Type-S. Also I'm still not in love with Lexus' styling direction.
As for the Infiniti Q50 (ie the Japanese car that came closest to threatening the 3-series dominance as the G35/37), it's an ancient barely competitive model. For all the criticism Acura gets from fans, it's Infiniti that has really lost its way.
The Genesis G70 gets hyped a lot, and yes Hyundai/Kia/Genesis wins "most improved car manufacturer" (well not too improved considering the engine fire debacle). However, like all Hyundai/Kia/Genesis vehicles, the G70 may look great on the outside and even more so on a spec sheet, but when you factor in future resale value, fit and finish, material quality, dealer experience, and other intangibles that value most likely shrinks. Same issues with the Kia Stinger, with the addition that a $50,000 Kia is a very tough pill to swallow, especially with the G70 now available.
Lower-volume sports sedans like the Volvo S60, Jaguar XE, Cadillac CT4 have no directly comparable engine/trim to Type-S.
Again, we don't have any actual tests, but at the very least it seems that the TLX-S will be competitive in its class.
My biggest criticism of the Type-S (and TLX in general) is the weight. The TLX is an absolutely gorgeous car from the base model up (unlike the 1.5G TLX where only the A-Spec looked appealing) after so many duds over the last decade or so. I just don't think it needs to be as large as it is.
I am another lurker and hopeful wisher. I owned a 3G TL from its first year (MY 2004]. That car stood out from its competitors at launch. It went downhill IMO with subsequent generations of TL/X. Acura seems to have brought back a lot of its mojo with the current gen, and the Type-S, but I’m afraid the car is still going to be a middler in performance. It is as if Acura targeted the competition from 3 years ago, and well, the competition moved forward. Numbers wise, the only competition it might beat is the S4/S5.
But we shouldn’t be quick to judge. Real life driving performance & pleasure is more than just numbers, and not everyone cares to win that fraction of a second off a stoplight 0-60. On the plus side, the car subjectively looks good and Acura can still play the one card it has always used - the value card. Acura needs to play that card very carefully because there are lots of good options - both direct and indirect competitors, in not too wide a price range, and some of us are not fanboys of any brand in particular.
My biggest criticism of the Type-S (and TLX in general) is the weight. The TLX is an absolutely gorgeous car from the base model up (unlike the 1.5G TLX where only the A-Spec looked appealing) after so many duds over the last decade or so. I just don't think it needs to be as large as it is.
In complete agreement with this. I think Acura was hedging too much. It's almost like someone at Acura decided folks shopping the TLX would also include those shopping the E-Class, A6, and 5 series (which it physically competes with). In streamlining their sedan offerings, Acura getting rid of the larger RLX and compensating by making the TLX bigger is not the best solution.
Some people though are just downright insulting towards the brand. Everyone is complaining about the 355hp. I get it. It's not a lot of power for a 3.0 Turbo V6. that's ok. Some people are so adamant about it like the car gods are going to curse them and their unborn offspring if they buy a 355hp turbo V6. Hahahaha! But they're within their rights to voice their opinion/dislike/like/approval/etc. on it. If it was an Ashton Martin, Porsche, or even an AMG with only that much power on their "performance" model, I'd be upset. But it's an entry level luxury model with some "go fast" bits on it. Not a track monster. When they said 355hp, I was like "Oh cool. No worries. That's plenty. Especially when Hondata/KTune comes out with something for it." Most people complaining about the power act like they'll be racing it every day and running up against Hellcats, AMGs, and M3s every second. Come on. The car isn't even out. Lol
Entry level? Since when did $55K become entry level? Also, how many people do you think are going to tune the car? We (forum members, car online groups, enthusiasts) are abysmal part of the ownership numbers. At it's peak, Honda Accord forum has maybe 300 people (out of 20K members) actually saying something...MAYBE 300. You know how many Accords have been sold since 2018? Over a million. I guarantee you that the amount of tuned accords vs stock accords is 0.0000001%. The TLX will be even less because unlike the Accord, TLX will be far more out of reach for average Joe. I won't even go into dealer markup that TLXS will have. Honda couldn't care less about this issue even 4 years later on the CTR. Dodge put an end to this in one day for Hellcats and Demons. Ford said they won't sell Mach-E to any dealer who is caught marking it up. Honda? No Fs given.
With the Type-S coming I've been lurking on this thread and others for the past few weeks but it sure is depressing. I was looking for cautious optimism rather than premature victory laps, but it's turned out to be exactly the opposite lol. From half the posts on here, the new TLX-S is already a massive failure.
I'm waiting for the media tests and official pricing to reserve my full judgement, but I'm pleased with what I've seen so far. If the Type-S handles even better than the already great handling lower trims, hits 60mph in well under 5 seconds, and sticks to the "low 50s" price tag with nearly all of the Advance features it will be an excellent value imho.
As for the competition..
The Type-S is not meant to go after the top-tier German performance models but the watered down M340i, C43 and S4. It is significantly cheaper than the first two and better looking/equipped than the S4. The S5 has much better styling (if you like hatchbacks) and overall is probably the most significant competitor, but it's still under equipped.
A similarly priced AR Giulia is a purist only car that has terrible reliability and far fewer features for the money.
Lexus doesn't really have a Type-S competitor. The IS350 F Sport competes with the A-Spec TLX and the IS500 F competes in that top-tier class above the Type-S. Also I'm still not in love with Lexus' styling direction.
As for the Infiniti Q50 (ie the Japanese car that came closest to threatening the 3-series dominance as the G35/37), it's an ancient barely competitive model. For all the criticism Acura gets from fans, it's Infiniti that has really lost its way.
The Genesis G70 gets hyped a lot, and yes Hyundai/Kia/Genesis wins "most improved car manufacturer" (well not too improved considering the engine fire debacle). However, like all Hyundai/Kia/Genesis vehicles, the G70 may look great on the outside and even more so on a spec sheet, but when you factor in future resale value, fit and finish, material quality, dealer experience, and other intangibles that value most likely shrinks. Same issues with the Kia Stinger, with the addition that a $50,000 Kia is a very tough pill to swallow, especially with the G70 now available.
Lower-volume sports sedans like the Volvo S60, Jaguar XE, Cadillac CT4 have no directly comparable engine/trim to Type-S.
Again, we don't have any actual tests, but at the very least it seems that the TLX-S will be competitive in its class.
My biggest criticism of the Type-S (and TLX in general) is the weight. The TLX is an absolutely gorgeous car from the base model up (unlike the 1.5G TLX where only the A-Spec looked appealing) after so many duds over the last decade or so. I just don't think it needs to be as large as it is.
ive been generally lurking on this thread for months and feel the same way. I’ve driven hondas my whole life but when it came time to purchase my last vehicle in 2015, Honda didnt have an option that fit what i was looking for. The pre mmc 1g TLX did not have a sportier model in the line up so i went with an Infiniti Q50S, and have not regretted it. The 3.7 had almost 40 more horsepower and was 10-20’ shorter to brake from 60, and to me still looks a lot sportier. The TLX didnt even have exposed exhausts for god sake. If a type S model was available at this time i would have been in it for sure. Now that the type S is back, i cant understand what all the hate on this thread is about. You will now have an option. It might not be the leader in any individual category. I dont expect it to out brake, or out sprint the majority of its competition, but it will be competitive and do so at a lower price point while looking good and, hopefully, carrying hondas reliability AND RESALE VALUE. Are you really going to care that a M340i is 0.3 seconds quicker to 60 when your driving this car? I dont think so. While it seems that most of the shit talking here is from people with 0 intention of buying this car (and if you have no intention of buying this car, do you really have nothing better to do with your time then shit post here?) it’s annoying just reading all the hate based on assumptions.
Expected replies...
”its a fat pig”- To me this will be the last non-battery assisted option for this type of vehicle. In 5 years time EVERYTHING is going to have an electric motor as part if the power delivery. This is not going to make cars lighter. Its only heavier from here so get used to it.
”have fun being out drag raced by a M340i/C43/somehow a dodge charger”- im not drag racing anyone, but i do expect to have fun with it on twisty back roads
“Who buys a Q50?” When the Q50 came out the base car had 328hpr, you were paying 15 grand more to get another brand with similar hpr numbers. It got sandbagged for having a steer by wire system that only 15% of the cars sold had optioned, but was given to every car reviewer, huge mistake. I think that in a few years the Q50’s with the 3.7 are going to be a car of choice for go fast low cost used vehicles.
The company has completely shit the bed by having this same basic car for going on 9 years, thats hard to recover from. No one should be buying this car now but when it first came out it was a fantastic option and has been a good ride for me. If it was replaced with something new i would have considered it as an option.
“355hpr is not enough”- then wait for the mmc for it to likely be 385hpr, or the last year “special edition” before its discontinued for it to be 400hpr. Your crazy if you think this thing is going to be the same hpr for the next 5 years. Its not hard to get more power out of a turbo 6, and an easy way to spike sales throughout production.
”who knows how reliable it will be”. I agree thats a chance you take with any new car/engine. To me the ideal time to buy this would be at the mmc when its had some time to prove itself and they will likely bump the power, but ive been waiting for this thing to be released for 2-3 years so thats not on the table for me.
”Lacking back seat leg room”. I agree, to me this is the most disappointing part of the car. I took n a spec for a test drive and I have 2 kids in booster seats in the back which has their feet elevated off the floor. it will be difficult for them (especially with winter boots on) to sit with their feet not straight out behind me(behind passenger is fine but im tall so behind me would be worse). They would have to sit pigeon toed. Luckily one kid is about to be done with booster seats so their feet will be lower in the rear foot well and no longer as smushed, but with a car this size, that should not have been an issue. Id recommend anyone with young kids take it for a test drive with their kids in booster seats to confirm its going to work for you. strange to think the older and bigger kids get the more room they would have but its true with the curve of the back of the drivers seat. I would expect teenagers to be perfectly comfortable back there.
”The marketing is bad”-yes it is, im glad we can all see that and ignore it.
”why did you write so much?” I’ve been saving this up for weeks it was time for a purge ok?
”Lacking back seat leg room”. I agree, to me this is the most disappointing part of the car. I took n a spec for a test drive and I have 2 kids in booster seats in the back which has their feet elevated off the floor. it will be difficult for them (especially with winter boots on) to sit with their feet not straight out behind me(behind passenger is fine but im tall so behind me would be worse). They would have to sit pigeon toed. Luckily one kid is about to be done with booster seats so their feet will be lower in the rear foot well and no longer as smushed, but with a car this size, that should not have been an issue. Id recommend anyone with young kids take it for a test drive with their kids in booster seats to confirm its going to work for you. strange to think the older and bigger kids get the more room they would have but its true with the curve of the back of the drivers seat. I would expect teenagers to be perfectly comfortable back there.
As I've done in any thread where someone was considering this car as a family car, I would tell them to reconsider (especially before the "booster seat years" as you pointed out). Not only would many infant/convertible car seats be a challenge to secure in the back, the difficulty in buckling the kid in and possibly hitting your head while exiting the car's low roofline is also a real threat! Thankfully I've "graduated" beyond those years and will be the sole person in my TLX more often than not.
There was one guy from Europe who took a dissenting view and said the TLX would be fine as a family vehicle. In his bounded awareness, most Europeans don't have a choice as they have very little space, highways are tight, and parking is tight. We live in the land of "Big Cars" and wide open space so if given the choice, why would you make the TLX a younger couple's family car?
Entry level? Since when did $55K become entry level? Also, how many people do you think are going to tune the car? We (forum members, car online groups, enthusiasts) are abysmal part of the ownership numbers. At it's peak, Honda Accord forum has maybe 300 people (out of 20K members) actually saying something...MAYBE 300. You know how many Accords have been sold since 2018? Over a million. I guarantee you that the amount of tuned accords vs stock accords is 0.0000001%. The TLX will be even less because unlike the Accord, TLX will be far more out of reach for average Joe. I won't even go into dealer markup that TLXS will have. Honda couldn't care less about this issue even 4 years later on the CTR. Dodge put an end to this in one day for Hellcats and Demons. Ford said they won't sell Mach-E to any dealer who is caught marking it up. Honda? No Fs given.
After watching the "heritage" video from Acura, the Type S trims have never been meant as the all out performance models like the Type R models were meant to be. More on the sporty luxury side. I seriously doubt the vast majority of the people wanting to buy the TLX Type S are actually comparing the weight of the different vehicles. I've yet to have a person come in and want the weight of the Type R and say "the Veloster N weighs 100lbs less so I'm buying that instead". No one is looking at the M3 and AR Giulia and saying "The M3 weighs 100lbs more so I'll go with the AR Giulia instead." Too many people are complaining and arguing over factors most people don't look at(the vast majority that will be buying the car). Since you bring up the amount of people modding the Accord and TLX. Yes we are car enthusiast but a lot of people are complaining about factors they have no real idea on, haven't driven the car, and comparing to cars that aren't even in it's class. Lol!
I'm sure there is a very small amount of people who will tune the Type S. Those that do aren't really worried about trying to beat every car on the road and racing from light to light every second either. The way everyone is so concerned about the numbers on the car make it seem like they'll be tracking the car and trying to take on Hellcats, M3s, and AMGs. And yes. The mark up, if there is one(we don't know yet because its not out yet) would be stupid. It's not a numbered unit or they'll never make them again.
ive been generally lurking on this thread for months and feel the same way. I’ve driven hondas my whole life but when it came time to purchase my last vehicle in 2015, Honda didnt have an option that fit what i was looking for. The pre mmc 1g TLX did not have a sportier model in the line up so i went with an Infiniti Q50S, and have not regretted it. The 3.7 had almost 40 more horsepower and was 10-20’ shorter to brake from 60, and to me still looks a lot sportier. The TLX didnt even have exposed exhausts for god sake. If a type S model was available at this time i would have been in it for sure. Now that the type S is back, i cant understand what all the hate on this thread is about. You will now have an option. It might not be the leader in any individual category. I dont expect it to out brake, or out sprint the majority of its competition, but it will be competitive and do so at a lower price point while looking good and, hopefully, carrying hondas reliability AND RESALE VALUE. Are you really going to care that a M340i is 0.3 seconds quicker to 60 when your driving this car? I dont think so. While it seems that most of the shit talking here is from people with 0 intention of buying this car (and if you have no intention of buying this car, do you really have nothing better to do with your time then shit post here?) it’s annoying just reading all the hate based on assumptions.
Expected replies...
”its a fat pig”- To me this will be the last non-battery assisted option for this type of vehicle. In 5 years time EVERYTHING is going to have an electric motor as part if the power delivery. This is not going to make cars lighter. Its only heavier from here so get used to it.
”have fun being out drag raced by a M340i/C43/somehow a dodge charger”- im not drag racing anyone, but i do expect to have fun with it on twisty back roads
“Who buys a Q50?” When the Q50 came out the base car had 328hpr, you were paying 15 grand more to get another brand with similar hpr numbers. It got sandbagged for having a steer by wire system that only 15% of the cars sold had optioned, but was given to every car reviewer, huge mistake. I think that in a few years the Q50’s with the 3.7 are going to be a car of choice for go fast low cost used vehicles.
The company has completely shit the bed by having this same basic car for going on 9 years, thats hard to recover from. No one should be buying this car now but when it first came out it was a fantastic option and has been a good ride for me. If it was replaced with something new i would have considered it as an option.
“355hpr is not enough”- then wait for the mmc for it to likely be 385hpr, or the last year “special edition” before its discontinued for it to be 400hpr. Your crazy if you think this thing is going to be the same hpr for the next 5 years. Its not hard to get more power out of a turbo 6, and an easy way to spike sales throughout production.
”who knows how reliable it will be”. I agree thats a chance you take with any new car/engine. To me the ideal time to buy this would be at the mmc when its had some time to prove itself and they will likely bump the power, but ive been waiting for this thing to be released for 2-3 years so thats not on the table for me.
”Lacking back seat leg room”. I agree, to me this is the most disappointing part of the car. I took n a spec for a test drive and I have 2 kids in booster seats in the back which has their feet elevated off the floor. it will be difficult for them (especially with winter boots on) to sit with their feet not straight out behind me(behind passenger is fine but im tall so behind me would be worse). They would have to sit pigeon toed. Luckily one kid is about to be done with booster seats so their feet will be lower in the rear foot well and no longer as smushed, but with a car this size, that should not have been an issue. Id recommend anyone with young kids take it for a test drive with their kids in booster seats to confirm its going to work for you. strange to think the older and bigger kids get the more room they would have but its true with the curve of the back of the drivers seat. I would expect teenagers to be perfectly comfortable back there.
”The marketing is bad”-yes it is, im glad we can all see that and ignore it.
”why did you write so much?” I’ve been saving this up for weeks it was time for a purge ok?
Got a chance to flog the 2021 Pig Nose M440 today. This car watered down from the M4 will do 0-60 in under 4 seconds. With dash info showed it pulling about 1G through the turns & makes a really nice noise with the flaps open.
For all the talk of who cares about 0 to 60 what is the purpose of the Type-S? If no one cares about performance why is everyone holding their breath & speculating about the TLX-S 0 to 60 time while waiting for the release of a car thats basically just a faster TLX?
If cost is an issue & you don't care about quickness anyway just save the money & get the top of the line 4 cylinder Turbo.
Seems like a bunch of bookies trying to cover the bets. If its quick is a win & if its slow it still a win because we did not really care about the speed.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-23-2021 at 01:48 PM.
For all the talk of who cares about 0 to 60 what is the purpose of the Type-S? If no one cares about performance why is everyone holding their breath & speculating about the TLX-S 0 to 60 time while waiting for the release of a car thats basically just a faster TLX?
I think the point is once a car breaks certain 0-60 speed threshold, the extra 0.x seconds doesn't really matter. Besides, the extra performance comes at extra cost. Not everyone needs all the performance available in a M340, some of us just want to see a faster Acura for now. Of course if we are talking purely about acceleration performance, Acura is no special, but that is part of the Honda DNA I guess. If I want special I would go buy a Porsche.
I think the point is once a car breaks certain 0-60 speed threshold, the extra 0.x seconds doesn't really matter. Besides, the extra performance comes at extra cost. Not everyone needs all the performance available in a M340, some of us just want to see a faster Acura for now. Of course if we are talking purely about acceleration performance, Acura is no special, but that is part of the Honda DNA I guess. If I want special I would go buy a Porsche.
Had a pair & they are great cars & lots of fun but not so special at the margins because there are so many of them. I think for special you need to move up to the exotics like McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari etc.
With the TLX I think a lot of guys here from what is posted is the want the Type-S to break into the M340, C43AMG, S4 numbers. Believe the Type-S should make it into the 4 second range but with the Audi as a outlier I also think the other German makes are beyond it. Would look to mid 3's instead of upper 3's for the next iteration. BMW has been running the B58 382BHP since 2018 & its due for an upgrade. The 335BHP version got 5 years before going to 382. With the M3/4 moving all the way to 473 & 503BHP there is now room to move the M340/M440's power up.
As long as Acura wants to market against the Germans there will be comentary.
Acura TLX add:
"The all-new Acura TLX offers exhilarating performance that puts it far ahead of the BMW 3 Series 330i. Its VTEC® Turbo 2.0-liter engine boasts 272 horsepower3 and 280 lb-ft of torque4, giving you plenty of muscle when needed. Standard paddle shifters put control of all 10 gear ratios at your fingertips. And thanks to its double wishbone front suspension, ultra-rigid body structure, and a new electro-servo braking system—adapted from the NSX supercar—the new TLX is also the best handling Acura sedan yet."
This is the car that get beat by the Accord & is not in the ballpark with the 330.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-23-2021 at 03:13 PM.
I'm looking forward to test driving the Type-S. I really do like the way it looks. If it checks all the boxes, I will probably aim for a MMC Type-S and wait for the bugs to be worked out. At that point, my oldest kiddo can have my current daily as her first car. And there is no way in hell I am paying MSRP much less a mark up. Acura will lose me as a potential customer if they do that crap.
Had a pair & they are great cars & lots of fun but not so special at the margins because there are so many of them. I think for special you need to move up to the exotics like McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari etc.
With the TLX I think a lot of guys here from what is posted is the want the Type-S to break into the M340, C43AMG, S4 numbers. Believe the Type-S should make it into the 4 second range but with the Audi as a outlier I also think the other German makes are beyond it. Would look to mid 3's instead of upper 3's for the next iteration. BMW has been running the B58 382BHP since 2018 & its due for an upgrade. The 335BHP version got 5 years before going to 382. With the M3/4 moving all the way to 473 & 503BHP there is now room to move the M340/M440's power up.
That photo reminded me we had similar conversation before. I did not mean special in the sense of fewer owners, but in the sense of the feedback from the car as well as the engineering. BMW are a little forgettable these days, besides the engines (and that is ruling out B48, I have no experience with the FWD models). Porsche is special in the meticulous engineering and tuning. You can feel the specialness right away in the chassis/suspension. In comparison, BMW just drives like nicer and very competent cars, for lack of better descriptions. But again, there is a price difference, and to me I can justify the gap between Porsche-BMW, but not so much about BMW-Acura unless I put a lot of focus on acceleration performance and maybe infotainment.
The lesson I learned from tuning my other car is that to get to Porsche level of handling/ride comfort is no easy task, thus worthy of the extra money.
It is fair to say that K20C+10AT is not in the sports sedan big league, but handing-wise, Acura is now finally closing in and has developed its own language. That itself is something to cheer on for me. I guess I still have a soft spot for Acura.
The Genesis G70 gets hyped a lot, and yes Hyundai/Kia/Genesis wins "most improved car manufacturer" (well not too improved considering the engine fire debacle). However, like all Hyundai/Kia/Genesis vehicles, the G70 may look great on the outside and even more so on a spec sheet, but when you factor in future resale value, fit and finish, material quality, dealer experience, and other intangibles that value most likely shrinks. Same issues with the Kia Stinger, with the addition that a $50,000 Kia is a very tough pill to swallow, especially with the G70 now available.
Fit and finish has never been an issue for Genesis, and resale on the GV70 and GV80 should be class-leading (for RWD).
Biggest problem with the G70 is its too cramped rear, which doesn't bode well for the TLX (there are IS owners who say the TLX is a bit tighter compared to their IS and it's not like the IS is particularly roomy back there).
The Stinger at $50K is fine (once you factor in the real price out the door) as fastbacks (larger than their 4-door counterparts - 4 Series GC vs 3 Series) are pricier; the 430 GC starts at $45k vs $40k for the 330.
The 440 GC starts at $51k.
It's the GT that sells (they don't even offer the T4 in Canada) and on the used market, it's one of the quickest turning models.
For me I think that's the entire point (along with the more aggressive styling and tuning). The base TLX is a great car but the mere fact that the Type-S offers a turbo six makes it nearly worth the $4-5K premium over the Advance.
“355hpr is not enough”- then wait for the mmc for it to likely be 385hpr, or the last year “special edition” before its discontinued for it to be 400hpr. Your crazy if you think this thing is going to be the same hpr for the next 5 years. Its not hard to get more power out of a turbo 6, and an easy way to spike sales throughout production.
HP bumps within a single generation are completely out of character for the brand, unless another variant or engine is added (and slim chance anything will top the S given how conservative they are). And regardless of how easy it is to crank up turbo output, the fact that they've never done it for the NSX, Civic, Accord, or any of their turbo models pretty much means we're stuck with 355hp for the next 5 years while the competition continues surging ahead.
I'm sure most of us disappointed by the specs aren't whining because we're worried about losing to random cars in drag races, it's because Acura had this one chance to finally get some respect again in the sport sedan market (3G Type-S was the closest it's gotten), and they were so behind for more than a decade that they truly needed a home run for this one, but instead only made it to 2nd base. Clearly the market leaders would not be where they are today if they put out mediocre or adequate competitors year after year. And the few things Acura does have going for it (reliability and value) are sadly not the top priorities for shoppers in this space.
Current SRT naturally aspirated Mopar V8s cars are called 392 because this is their engine displacement (6.4 L)
For example, this is the logo on the fender of the current Charger and Challenger Scat Pack
I would love to see an Accord 2.0, no matter how puffed up, beating a Scat Pack on the street.....
My neighbors buddy has this bumbling bee on his Charger. I beat him on a roll with my 2008 Acura TL Base automatic with 180k miles and only an M90 at 9 psi. We raced to 60-145mph. Stock “jelly” tranny still holding up.
That bumble bee has Twice the displacement. After the race he said “I’m gonna sell this car soon anyways.”
Oh and my 2007 Acura TL-S 6MT with a 9psi Rotrex made it look like a slow car. Should have seen the disappointment on the sons face when big bumbling bee dad lost to a family sedan.
Do you have your head in the sand? Even the standard TLX is marketed as being "FAST" and a performance sedan. The Type-S even more so. This is the primary reason I chastise it every chance I get. That and the deranged fanboys hailing the thing as the second coming of Christ.
And your video was rebuked by mine. How many times do I have to repeat myself? The carwow video clearly shows the C63S and M4 walking away from the RS5 from a roll. This is literally the shit I can't fucking stand from the Honda crowd. See what you want with your narrow-minded dumbfuckery. The RS5 wins from a dig because it has AWD compared to RWD. From a roll, where traction isn't limited, motherfucking basic fucking physics and "numbers on paper" trump asinine fucking fanboyism as both the M4 and C63 walk away because ... holy fucking shit ... they both have more power on paper with the same fucking weight. The TLX-S's competition all have AWD and drivetrains built to withstand hard launches instead of SH-AWD which isn't. It's as heavy or heavier than the competition. So what fucking claim do you think the fucking piece of fucking shit Type-S is going to pull out of its fucking ass wizardly bullshit built Honda POS ass?
And there's no Civics making 350HP beating a Viper unless it's gutted and making that power at the wheels. Again, basic fucking physics. Power + weight will determine who wins. Unless one has an obscenely peaky powerband that is near useless. I'm so fucking done with this dumbshit fucking Honda community. Fucking done. Fucking Christ I can't fucking take it anymore.
Entry level? Since when did $55K become entry level? Also, how many people do you think are going to tune the car? We (forum members, car online groups, enthusiasts) are abysmal part of the ownership numbers. At it's peak, Honda Accord forum has maybe 300 people (out of 20K members) actually saying something...MAYBE 300. You know how many Accords have been sold since 2018? Over a million. I guarantee you that the amount of tuned accords vs stock accords is 0.0000001%. The TLX will be even less because unlike the Accord, TLX will be far more out of reach for average Joe. I won't even go into dealer markup that TLXS will have. Honda couldn't care less about this issue even 4 years later on the CTR. Dodge put an end to this in one day for Hellcats and Demons. Ford said they won't sell Mach-E to any dealer who is caught marking it up. Honda? No Fs given.
I agree with what your saying, but is ford marking up any of their combustion engine models?
It seems plausible for Car manufacturers to get as many EVs sold in this tender take over of combustion engine sales. So they won’t allow mark ups to keep people coming through he door for electric vehicles.
Last edited by Acura TL Builder; 04-24-2021 at 09:04 AM.
For me I think that's the entire point (along with the more aggressive styling and tuning). The base TLX is a great car but the mere fact that the Type-S offers a turbo six makes it nearly worth the $4-5K premium over the Advance.
Agree, you will pay more for a faster car, honest answer. I am a "ME TOO" on that, have paid more to the quick version when available of every car I bought. Second part is it worth the premium if its much slower than the cars the TLX fan group say it "competes" with? You get to $55,000 & there are a lot of low mileage 1 or 2 year old fast CPO's coming off lease with full warranties in the 'competitor' group.
This is a for instance as to where a number of the guys have pegged the 2021 TLX-S performance in the other thread. So far no numbers from Acura but if the power to weight is close to being accurate the car would need Corvette C8 style gearing plus quality tires to cut low 4 high 3 second numbers. At the end of the run the horsepower/weight factor will determine its speed.
C/D TEST RESULTS: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph Braking, 70-0 mph: 169 ft
Road holding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g
The actual C/D test was ten years ago of my 320BHP 7DCT 2011 335IS coupe the quickest 335 model of the time. My best pure stock, except for tires, run was 13.0 @ 110mph
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-24-2021 at 11:08 AM.
Agree, you will pay more for a faster car, honest answer. I am a "ME TOO" on that, have paid more to the quick version when available of every car I bought. Second part is it worth the premium if its much slower than the cars the TLX fan group say it "competes" with? You get to $55,000 & there are a lot of low mileage 1 or 2 year old fast CPO's coming off lease with full warranties in the 'competitor' group.
This is a for instance as to where a number of the guys have pegged the 2021 TLX-S performance in the other thread. So far no numbers from Acura but if the power to weight is close to being accurate the car would need Corvette C8 style gearing plus quality tires to cut low 4 high 3 second numbers. At the end of the run the horsepower/weight factor will determine its speed.
C/D TEST RESULTS: Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph Braking, 70-0 mph: 169 ft
Road holding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g
The actual C/D test was ten years ago of my 320BHP 7DCT 2011 335IS coupe the quickest 335 model of the time. My best pure stock, except for tires, run was 13.0 @ 110mph
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time, nothing else matters. Not the mortgage, not the store, not the team and all their bullshit. For those ten seconds or less.... I'm free"
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time, nothing else matters. Not the mortgage, not the store, not the team and all their bullshit. For those ten seconds or less.... I'm free"
You forgot Track Day, Auto Cross, Back Road Runs, Offshore Fishing, Aerobatics. The name of the game is doing well enough in your career to enable you to do all those things plus maintain a main residence, beach house after having sent your 3 kids through DUKE & onto their successful careers where they can do those things that they enjoy.
Then there are always some bitter people who never made the cut.
You forgot Track Day, Auto Cross, Back Road Runs, Offshore Fishing, Aerobatics. The name of the game is doing well enough in your career to enable you to do all those things plus maintain a main residence, beach house after having sent your 3 kids through DUKE & onto their successful careers where they can do those things that they enjoy.
Then there are always some bitter people who never made the cut.
I thought I was watching Suits when reading this! But cannot agree with you more, perhaps obviously adding stay healthy as long as we can.
I thought I was watching Suits when reading this! But cannot agree with you more, perhaps obviously adding stay healthy as long as we can.
I don't do envy very well could have added more stuff but that would have been just piling on. That said old farts do not have to take to a rocking chair on the porch if they don't want to & keep heathy. In my 70's when my knees started to get pissed at me & said retire. This was my last item in the retirement party.
Clean 5 concrete paving blocks break.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-24-2021 at 12:55 PM.
You forgot Track Day, Auto Cross, Back Road Runs, Offshore Fishing, Aerobatics. The name of the game is doing well enough in your career to enable you to do all those things plus maintain a main residence, beach house after having sent your 3 kids through DUKE & onto their successful careers where they can do those things that they enjoy.
Then there are always some bitter people who never made the cut.
Are you that insecure that you have to flaunt your wealth? I guess you are. I feel bad for you bro. Deep inside you are miserable. That has to be why you are how you are. I pity you. I understand now.
You forgot Track Day, Auto Cross, Back Road Runs, Offshore Fishing, Aerobatics. The name of the game is doing well enough in your career to enable you to do all those things plus maintain a main residence, beach house after having sent your 3 kids through DUKE & onto their successful careers where they can do those things that they enjoy.
Then there are always some bitter people who never made the cut.
Ok Guys, let's move on with all the BS... Anyone care to guess when the official info will finally be released??? We are a week away and all we got was that 'history of Type S' clip on You Tube😏. FFS Acura really knows how to hype up a release....
Pretty much next to nothing released and the car should be available in late May.
Ok Guys, let's move on with all the BS... Anyone care to guess when the official info will finally be released??? We are a week away and all we got was that 'history of Type S' clip on You Tube😏. FFS Acura really knows how to hype up a release....
Pretty much next to nothing released and the car should be available in late May.
First week in May. Release embargoed print Road Tests or First Looks & TV adds.
Wonder if they have been busy making revisions based on posts to this site? The whole year of virus shutdowns gave them a lot of time to work the car since its prototype was first shown in 8/2019. Think I would have boosted the power up slightly to 385BHP so they could advertise it like they did with the TLX vs the 330 as having more power than the M340, M440, Z4M40.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-24-2021 at 04:51 PM.
Wow with all the negativity about a product not even here yet. I understand where it comes from. Acura is tight-lipped until just before release, so there is little information outside a couple of press releases. That’s always been the case. They are not GM or Ford or CJDR, releasing specs years beforehand...with the exception of the new NSX.
It’s almost here. Just try to relax until then. WOOOOSAAAH. Deep breaths. Yoga stretches.
My neighbors buddy has this bumbling bee on his Charger. I beat him on a roll with my 2008 Acura TL Base automatic with 180k miles and only an M90 at 9 psi. We raced to 60-145mph. Stock “jelly” tranny still holding up.
That bumble bee has Twice the displacement. After the race he said “I’m gonna sell this car soon anyways.”
Ahahaha LOL, you much have some very high quality weed in your neck of the wood....sure buddy, I also bet he is going to sell his 392 to get a souped up 3G....
HP bumps within a single generation are completely out of character for the brand, unless another variant or engine is added (and slim chance anything will top the S given how conservative they are). And regardless of how easy it is to crank up turbo output, the fact that they've never done it for the NSX, Civic, Accord, or any of their turbo models pretty much means we're stuck with 355hp for the next 5 years while the competition continues surging ahead.
I'm sure most of us disappointed by the specs aren't whining because we're worried about losing to random cars in drag races, it's because Acura had this one chance to finally get some respect again in the sport sedan market (3G Type-S was the closest it's gotten), and they were so behind for more than a decade that they truly needed a home run for this one, but instead only made it to 2nd base. Clearly the market leaders would not be where they are today if they put out mediocre or adequate competitors year after year. And the few things Acura does have going for it (reliability and value) are sadly not the top priorities for shoppers in this space.
All this talk about keeping up with the competition and how they keep moving ahead....look up what the horsepower of the Audi S5 has done since the car was introduced umpteen years ago.
04-22-2021, 11:49 AM
