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I would imagine most of the MDX sales were more of the 2020 fire sale variety. Not enough 2022's made it to dealerships to make a dent in Feb and most are still waiting for theirs in March.
Don't get me wrong, the '22 MDX is a hit but you will have to wait for March and April numbers to make that judgment since the supply is not meeting demand.
I do agree with you on that, was thinking some were leftovers. But it's a pretty big jump, something which did not happen with the TLX. Could be that the old TLX wasn't good enough at a discount. Part of it could be sedan vs crossovers, but it's a big problem for Ikeda and his sport image. The new TLX is not firing people up to buy them. It's pretty sad, since he's focusing on the sport image versus EV/hybrid. That factor could ignite sells, but it's not a priority for now.
I think Acura's marketing is also affecting sells, when you keep on crying wolf ... well people stop listening even if the wolf may be near.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-03-2021 at 10:53 AM.
I do agree with you on that, was thinking some were leftovers. But it's a pretty big jump, something which did not happen with the TLX. Could be that the old TLX wasn't good enough at a discount. Part of it could be sedan vs crossovers, but it's a big problem for Ikeda and his sport image. The new TLX is not firing people up to buy them. It's pretty sad, since he's focusing on the sport image versus EV/hybrid. That factor could ignite sells, but it's not a priority for now.
I think Acura's marketing is also affecting sells, when you keep on crying wolf ... well people stop listening even if the wolf may be near.
Based on what was on dealer lots in my area, there really wasn't a point in time where there was a huge amount of leftover 2020 TLXs at the same time the 2021 was on the lots. Whereas right now it's like a 10:1 ratio of 2020 MDXs vs 2022 MDXs. Frankly, other than the infotainment system, there isn't really anything wrong with the 3G MDX, and with some steep incentives or discounts it make a lot of sense as a 3-row crossover. Sure the 4G is more dynamic and has a nicer interior and exterior, but honestly for people buying these cars as family movers, I wouldn't be surprised if most buyers would prefer the 3G with a steep discount over a 4G at or close to sticker.
Based on what was on dealer lots in my area, there really wasn't a point in time where there was a huge amount of leftover 2020 TLXs at the same time the 2021 was on the lots. Whereas right now it's like a 10:1 ratio of 2020 MDXs vs 2022 MDXs. Frankly, other than the infotainment system, there isn't really anything wrong with the 3G MDX, and with some steep incentives or discounts it make a lot of sense as a 3-row crossover. Sure the 4G is more dynamic and has a nicer interior and exterior, but honestly for people buying these cars as family movers, I wouldn't be surprised if most buyers would prefer the 3G with a steep discount over a 4G at or close to sticker.
Or, could be people don't like the new infotainment system and are jumping at the old ones while available. The discount is a bonus.
The increased incentives on the TLX occurred mid-month so I think March will be a better indication if that helps sales. However until we see how other manufacturers sedan sales were in February hard to judge if Honda is an outlier or everyone had a drop. Accord and Civic also had huge decreases. This segment (sadly) keeps dropping.
The increased incentives on the TLX occurred mid-month so I think March will be a better indication if that helps sales. However until we see how other manufacturers sedan sales were in February hard to judge if Honda is an outlier or everyone had a drop. Accord and Civic also had huge decreases. This segment (sadly) keeps dropping.
Agreed! the issue is people are too crazy about SUV, but also, TLX has definitively a huge problem with the backseat. I mean people even with one kid will think twice before pulling the trigger. You have to be single or a couple to get a TLX which doesn't make sense if you are spending $45-55K. People will opt in for a SUV. Bigger, better ground clearance and especially in colder/snowy areas, SUV is the best!
Agreed! the issue is people are too crazy about SUV, but also, TLX has definitively a huge problem with the backseat. I mean people even with one kid will think twice before pulling the trigger. You have to be single or a couple to get a TLX which doesn't make sense if you are spending $45-55K. People will opt in for a SUV. Bigger, better ground clearance and especially in colder/snowy areas, SUV is the best!
At least I'm getting 22-23 mpg on the TLX now vs 19 mpg on the MDX. Just paid $3/gallon for premium today. The bad old days are coming back!
Agreed! the issue is people are too crazy about SUV, but also, TLX has definitively a huge problem with the backseat. I mean people even with one kid will think twice before pulling the trigger. You have to be single or a couple to get a TLX which doesn't make sense if you are spending $45-55K. People will opt in for a SUV. Bigger, better ground clearance and especially in colder/snowy areas, SUV is the best!
Without a doubt. If I had two kids and $45-50k to spend there’s no way I’m buying anything but an SUV. At the time my sons were young choices were limited to a sedan, van, or truck based SUV. The execution of the latter back then left a lot to be desired and there was no way I was driving a van. Basically I was stuck with a sedan. That’s no longer the case making the SUV the overwhelmingly practical choice. In my opinion none of the would be sports sedans in that price range would make a serviceable family hauler.
Without a doubt. If I had two kids and $45-50k to spend there’s no way I’m buying anything but an SUV. At the time my sons were young choices were limited to a sedan, van, or truck based SUV. The execution of the latter back then left a lot to be desired and there was no way I was driving a van. Basically I was stuck with a sedan. That’s no longer the case making the SUV the overwhelmingly practical choice. In my opinion none of the would be sports sedans in that price range would make a serviceable family hauler.
totally agreed! I was supposed to pull the trigger this year to get a RDX or MDX but honestly wfh pushed my purchase. There is no point to buy a car and park it.
I test drove the new TLX twice and it’s a great machine... so much fun. But it doesn’t work for me due to my family. My kids are young and I need a much bigger car. With strollers, bags and sometimes groceries, I struggle.
At the end of the day, you get what suits your family situation and budget
At the end of the day, you get what suits your family situation and budget
which is why the tlx is a flop!
it can be the best car in the world but if it doesnt suit the masses via budget and space constraints, it wont sell particularly well .
which is why the tlx is a flop!
It can be the best car in the world but if it doesnt suit the masses via budget and space constraints, it wont sell particularly well .
The increased incentives on the TLX occurred mid-month so I think March will be a better indication if that helps sales. However until we see how other manufacturers sedan sales were in February hard to judge if Honda is an outlier or everyone had a drop. Accord and Civic also had huge decreases. This segment (sadly) keeps dropping.
Yea, TLX is a flop, but it's likely largely due to the segment itself. But, at the same token, if the value proposition isn't there, it's no wonder sales are in the tank. The price is basically equivalent to the RDX and the performance, outside of handling, is basically the same. I may be biased, but I think overall, the RDX is a better looking vehicle too. If you're going to spend the same amount, most people are going to go with the vehicle with more room, capacity, ground clearance and utility/practicality ... especially if they're as similar as the TLX and RDX. The only way the TLX will sell well is if it was significantly cheaper, which Acura won't do because their margins are likely already minimal.
I'll say it again ... I very strongly believe this is the last generation of the TLX.
Yea, TLX is a flop, but it's likely largely due to the segment itself. But, at the same token, if the value proposition isn't there, it's no wonder sales are in the tank. The price is basically equivalent to the RDX and the performance, outside of handling, is basically the same. I may be biased, but I think overall, the RDX is a better looking vehicle too. If you're going to spend the same amount, most people are going to go with the vehicle with more room, capacity, ground clearance and utility/practicality ... especially if they're as similar as the TLX and RDX. The only way the TLX will sell well is if it was significantly cheaper, which Acura won't do because their margins are likely already minimal.
I'll say it again ... I very strongly believe this is the last generation of the TLX.
I also believe an RDX Type S would sell much better than a TLX Type S.
I also believe an RDX Type S would sell much better than a TLX Type S.
It would be silly for Acura not to bring about an RDX-S for the 4G RDX. Of course, the hood would have to be extended, much like the TLX and MDX to fit the V6T. I'm honestly not a fan of either the new TLX's, nor the MDX's, weird (to me) proportions with their long hoods. They looked great in pictures, but in person, I'm not a fan. The interiors on both are vastly improved though.
Yea, TLX is a flop, but it's likely largely due to the segment itself. But, at the same token, if the value proposition isn't there, it's no wonder sales are in the tank. The price is basically equivalent to the RDX and the performance, outside of handling, is basically the same. I may be biased, but I think overall, the RDX is a better looking vehicle too. If you're going to spend the same amount, most people are going to go with the vehicle with more room, capacity, ground clearance and utility/practicality ... especially if they're as similar as the TLX and RDX. The only way the TLX will sell well is if it was significantly cheaper, which Acura won't do because their margins are likely already minimal.
I'll say it again ... I very strongly believe this is the last generation of the TLX.
I struggled with this decision for a split second (due to the price similarity but large trunk advantage). Since I was downsizing from an MDX, I figured now was the right time to go back to a sedan. If I could do it over again, I would still make the same decision given the mpg advantage and awesome handling.
I haven't put my golf bag and push cart in the trunk of the TLX yet but worse case scenario is I fold down the rear seats since they don't get any action normally.
I struggled with this decision for a split second (due to the price similarity but large trunk advantage). Since I was downsizing from an MDX, I figured now was the right time to go back to a sedan. If I could do it over again, I would still make the same decision given the mpg advantage and awesome handling.
I haven't put my golf bag and push cart in the trunk of the TLX yet but worse case scenario is I fold down the rear seats since they don't get any action normally.
If you don't need crazy space and care about handling and agility, TLX comes at the top. No second doubt. I think you should be very happy with your decision. But if you have kids, strollers, diaper bags and etc (lol) then RDX would make much more sense. I am saying it again, everyone's situation is different. Be happy with you purchase.
If you don't need crazy space and care about handling and agility, TLX comes at the top. No second doubt. I think you should be very happy with your decision. But if you have kids, strollers, diaper bags and etc (lol) then RDX would make much more sense. I am saying it again, everyone's situation is different. Be happy with you purchase.
right, everyone is making the same decision.
to forego the TLX. because of it's price. because of it's space constraints.
and of course, because there are better cars for handling and agility for the money.
...there are better cars for handling and agility for the money.
What would those cars be? With some Dealers dropping the price of a TLX Technology Package SH-AWD to $39,736, what would be some better cars for handling and agility at that price that have the same features?
right, everyone is making the same decision.
to forego the TLX. because of it's price. because of it's space constraints.
and of course, because there are better cars for handling and agility for the money.
Makes sense. Definitely people have many, many options to choose. From Germans, Koreans, Americans, Italians and Japanese. if you can afford, you can even go ahead and import French cars
What would those cars be? With some Dealers dropping the price of a TLX Technology Package SH-AWD to $39,736, what would be some better cars for handling and agility at that price that have the same features?
I'm honestly not a fan of either the new TLX's, nor the MDX's, weird (to me) proportions with their long hoods. They looked great in pictures, but in person, I'm not a fan. The interiors on both are vastly improved though.
Not a fan of the TLX look either, the proportions just look off to me. I was really hoping to like it but it just doesn't do it for me.
right, everyone is making the same decision.
to forego the TLX. because of it's price. because of it's space constraints.
and of course, because there are better cars for handling and agility for the money.
How do you know all this? You got like source material to back up your conclusions? A link maybe to a well researched article?
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
How do you know all this? You got like source material to back up your conclusions? A link maybe to a well researched article?
Just look at the comments in this forum. Many are second guessing getting the new TLX. It's nice, sure. But once you think about using it on a daily basis, it's really not a jack of all trades (versus space and mileage). I'm not including SUVs in this since people that need a box on wheels will get one.
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
The major difference is that the TLX is brand new, and not all sedans did worse. The IS went up, even with meh changes and old-ish architecture. The aged ILX still maintained its sales, you would think the new TLX would be a similar story.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-04-2021 at 11:18 AM.
Just look at the comments in this forum. Many are second guessing getting the new TLX. It's nice, sure. But once you think about using it on a daily basis, it's really not a jack of all trades (versus space and mileage). I'm not including SUVs in this since people that need a box on wheels will get one.
First forgive me for using an overused word. Folks on this forum have been hating on the car since it was introduced. First it was complains about how bad the car was and how the reviewers would tear it to shreds. Now that the reviews have been what appears to be 95% favorable folks are falling back quibbles about rear seat room and that the product is not moving. Nobody calls the G70 or Stinger a flop because barely 800 of each is sold in a month. And yes IS sales are up, but they’ve only gone from 1,000 to 1,900. Let’s see where they are in six months. Bottom line is like it or not the TLX is an excellent vehicle. I’d say it’s the best Acura sedan since the 2004-2008 TL. Whether or not the market chooses to buy them in volume has no bearing on the quality of the product.
First forgive me for using an overused word. Folks on this forum have been hating on the car since it was introduced. First it was complains about how bad the car was and how the reviewers would tear it to shreds. Now that the reviews have been what appears to be 95% favorable folks are falling back quibbles about rear seat room and that the product is not moving. Nobody calls the G70 or Stinger a flop because barely 800 of each is sold in a month. And yes IS sales are up, but they’ve only gone from 1,000 to 1,900. Let’s see where they are in six months. Bottom line is like it or not the TLX is an excellent vehicle. I’d say it’s the best Acura sedan since the 2004-2008 TL. Whether or not the market chooses to buy them in volume has no bearing on the quality of the product.
I agree with your assessment 100%. The reviews rave about the "fun factor" of the car as well as the quality of the ride (double wishbone suspension) and interior materials. In fact the True Touch Pad gets the most criticism although many say once you are used to it -not so much of an issue. If we analyze the sales in 2021-January 1,312 units, February-1,788 units we can see that sales increased 36% with fewer selling days to boot. The increased incentives were only in effect for half the month. If the car does not fit a buyers needs-move on. Those that chose this car will likely really enjoy its attributes.
At least I'm getting 22-23 mpg on the TLX now vs 19 mpg on the MDX. Just paid $3/gallon for premium today. The bad old days are coming back!
In a cheap state for gas, today the highest price for regular in town is $2.74. a month ago it was $2.30. One place holding the line is COSTCO at Six Forks $2.39. Most likely COSTCO might have specific long term contract deals as they are typically the best price for Tier I gas in the area. Always take the most empty car when I shop there. Their Premium 93 is now $2.69.
My regular Shell station is $3.19 for Premium backup BP is $3.09. Prices are very volatile right now but the trend up is pretty steep & my earlier $4.00+ before year end 2021 still looks good unfortunately. Have automatics discounts for both brands.
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
The difference is that the other cars (except Infiniti) can make up for their lackluster NA sales in other markets. Acura for all intents and purposes has no market other than this one.
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
The BMW 3-series has always been the benchmark in that vehicle class. It still is.
I was just going to lease a new Accord Touring and call it a day. The lease prices I was being quoted didn't seem that great so I checked out the lease on the TLX SH-AWD Aspec. The lease payment ended up being about $25 more per month with the same down. Yes, I wish the back seat were larger and I wish it had wireless android auto, but I'll live. I gain alot of other things and don't get involved in the 0-60 times or compare it to every other car out there. It's fast enough and nice enough for me. I'll enjoy every minute of every drive in the car.
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
Automotive sales figures still need to be taken with huge grains of COVID 19 contaminated salt. I still think more realistic comparisons won't be able to be made until the country is pretty much back to normal, which still may not really happen until January of 2022.
I was just going to lease a new Accord Touring and call it a day. The lease prices I was being quoted didn't seem that great so I checked out the lease on the TLX SH-AWD Aspec. The lease payment ended up being about $25 more per month with the same down. Yes, I wish the back seat were larger and I wish it had wireless android auto, but I'll live. I gain alot of other things and don't get involved in the 0-60 times or compare it to every other car out there. It's fast enough and nice enough for me. I'll enjoy every minute of every drive in the car.
Good for you and yes you will enjoy this car alot. I when from a 2018 Accord .2.0 to my new TLX Tech and I'm loving it every minute. I'm along in this car about 99% of the time so I really don't care about the back seat. The car handles well (I'm not on a track) and fast enough for me also. Not having any problems with getting on highways or passing anyone. I love the look and the interior is way above the Accord, first class for me.
Just enjoy it and I really don't care when folks bitch about the car. Have fun!!
I was just going to lease a new Accord Touring and call it a day. The lease prices I was being quoted didn't seem that great so I checked out the lease on the TLX SH-AWD Aspec. The lease payment ended up being about $25 more per month with the same down. Yes, I wish the back seat were larger and I wish it had wireless android auto, but I'll live. I gain alot of other things and don't get involved in the 0-60 times or compare it to every other car out there. It's fast enough and nice enough for me. I'll enjoy every minute of every drive in the car.
Leasing top tiered trim Honda's were always a bad deal. Only base or mid range models are best to lease. Touring/Elite models get into the upper 400s/500s per month and it just doesn't make financial sense.
Nobody in the segment appears to be moving vehicles other than BMW.
If you want to talk flops based purely on sales numbers then there are a whole host of vehicles that qualify.
Looks like Caddy may have stolen some sales from the others with CT4/CT5 refreshes in addition to the IS refresh.
One BIG factor missing from this list that I think its a taking up a huge chunk of sales is Tesla 3 which is not showing here. I'm pretty sure their numbers are much higher than the 3 series.
[UPDATE] A quick google shows Tesla sold 161,650 combined of Model 3 and Y series in Q4. That's HUGE. I can't seem to find a breakdown out of that number how many were 3 or Y though.
I was just going to lease a new Accord Touring and call it a day. The lease prices I was being quoted didn't seem that great so I checked out the lease on the TLX SH-AWD Aspec. The lease payment ended up being about $25 more per month with the same down. Yes, I wish the back seat were larger and I wish it had wireless android auto, but I'll live. I gain alot of other things and don't get involved in the 0-60 times or compare it to every other car out there. It's fast enough and nice enough for me. I'll enjoy every minute of every drive in the car.
Did you factor in that a standard lease for Honda is 12k miles/year whereas Acura standard lease is 10k miles/year?
The upgrade to the TLX makes a lot more sense if you go for the AWD, which is not an option on an Accord.
Did you factor in that a standard lease for Honda is 12k miles/year whereas Acura standard lease is 10k miles/year?
The upgrade to the TLX makes a lot more sense if you go for the AWD, which is not an option on an Accord.
Yes both were factored with 12k miles. I also get lifetime oil changes with the Acura. Something that will pay off over time. I'm replacing a 2008 TSX with 232k miles that I originally leased and then bought. Never paid for a single oil change. Will probably do the same with this one if I like it enough.
I used to work at the acura dealership for many years and have very strong connections at the Honda dealership. This is my 51st Honda vehicle. I've been around them since the first one we bought in the 70's. They're what I know and what I'm comfortable with. I learned long ago to not get hung up on 0-60 times, lack of color choices, boring wheels, questionable design aspects, etc.. just pick one and you'll enjoy it. There might be sexier choices out there, but I have better things to do with my time, like enjoy a drive this weekend through Bryce Canyon and Zion. 👍
Yes both were factored with 12k miles. I also get lifetime oil changes with the Acura. Something that will pay off over time. I'm replacing a 2008 TSX with 232k miles that I originally leased and then bought. Never paid for a single oil change. Will probably do the same with this one if I like it enough.
I used to work at the acura dealership for many years and have very strong connections at the Honda dealership. This is my 51st Honda vehicle. I've been around them since the first one we bought in the 70's. They're what I know and what I'm comfortable with. I learned long ago to not get hung up on 0-60 times, lack of color choices, boring wheels, questionable design aspects, etc.. just pick one and you'll enjoy it. There might be sexier choices out there, but I have better things to do with my time, like enjoy a drive this weekend through Bryce Canyon and Zion. 👍
Hope for the sake of TLX sales that you are not their target market & they nailed it.
03-03-2021, 10:43 AM
