twiz03

Love the way it looks and love the interior design.

- Over-priced by $3k
- Interior space is a disappointment compared to it's overall size.
- Missing key features on low/mid trim levels.
(Remote start, ventilated seats, etc..)
- Gas mileage is ehh compared to competition

1 and 3 can be fixed. 2 and 4 is what they're going to have to deal with until 3G comes.

ELIN

Judging by the rate these TLX are moving off lots, there may not be a 3G!

Flapjackura

The pandemic has stood just about everything on its collective ear - not just auto sales. Buying behaviors have changed - both at the macro as well as the micro level. If I were the decision maker at Acura I would be very hesitant to make any strategic decisions regarding the 3G TLX right now. Especially when thinking about sedans in general - which even before the pandemic were starting to become a more and more "niche" type of product. Some of the other posters have said - rightly - that once the world is back to more of a semblance of normalcy - that will be the time to really scrutinize sales numbers concerning sedans and plan ahead accordingly. I would argue that right now, no major niche product is an easy buying decision to run with for many folk at all. Personally, I was fortunate despite everything to have a good year financially in 2020 - but a lot of folks - the majority - have tabled making niche buying decisions and will continue to do so until things settle down.

BEAR-AvHistory

You really need to wait till April May & maybe into June before any judgements are make. Lockdowns, Job Losses etc are killing everybody. If they fail this summer they have a problem.

ESHBG

Yes, along with how many people just don't need to drive the miles that they used to...I can go five days without touching my car now and that won't be changing anytime soon.

Pens Fan

With the industry wide shortage of computer chips and some manufacturers slowing or canceling production for a week or so, maybe Acura is smart to stockpile the TLX and can wait until June to see if they should increase incentives?

ELIN

I think just like any industry, it costs money if product doesn't move.

Legend2TL

The chip shortage is pretty bad, fab's run close to their capacity (only way to amortize a multi-billion dollar fab) and alot of the high tech chip fab equipment have lead times of 1-2 years so it's difficult to ramp up capacity.

It's not good to stockpile cars in a lot. With most auto manufacturers using Kanban/JIT style assembly there's little extra components anyway.
Recently changed the battery in a FOB in my wife's 2017 CR-V which she got in 3/2017, noticed the FOB's plastic body date code was 1/2017

Pens Fan

Acura has increased the loyalty/conquest incentive from $1,000 to $2,500 through March 31. As we have speculated, this is a necessary adjustment to reflect the current market/inventory situation. Lets see if this moves the needle appreciably.

ELIN

According to TrueCar, some folks are getting more than 11% off MSRP. The holiday discounting is in full gear!

As the "value" proposition, if you're getting 11% off, I can't see how you can complain about what's lacking in the TLX anymore.
Unless I'm mistaken, this is pretty much Genesis-type discounting right here!

fiatlux

I don't think we've even seen the peak yet. The pre-MMC 1G's were discounted by over 20% at one point.

Edward'TLS

The poorer the sales the better, because it means we as buyers will enjoy unprecedented level of factory/dealerships rebates and incentives, until the price becomes more reasonable.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

With two generations of poor sales; it should tell Acura that whatever they are doing is not working.
But of course, they wont learn from their mistakes.

and will continue to out price themselves out of the market.

one could even count the NSX sales as a lesson to be learned...but alas.....Acura is doing Acura things and pricing high

Honda430

Based on the same source 5-7% here in So Cal with the least amount of discount given for the SHAWD Aspec. That’s average so if all the planets align someone could get more.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

How many more years does Acura need to become more reasonable with prices

KeithL

I just got an email on Acura sedans, 60 months 0% so seems they really are hurting on sedan sales.

jhb31

I don't think the 2nd Gen TLX added enough over the 1st Gen model relative to the price increase and losing the V6 which was rock solid over the long run does not help. Used car prices have been on the high side in general. Maybe people will spend more in the next few months. As for job losses most new TLX buyers are probably not in that category. Not many higher earners (and I use that term loosely) have lost jobs despite what is going on.

fiatlux

It's not just losing the V6. The 1G TLX was more like 2 cars in one, because of the lower price segment the 2.4L competed in. Even if the new model was the same price as the old V6 model, it'd likely still see a sales drop compared to the 1G because of that. Now, that's probably fine if Acura had another car at the lower price point to capture the would-be TLX 2.4 buyers and keep them in-brand, but the only other option is the ILX which isn't a viable alternative at all.

YEH

Incentive spending in correlation to ATP for Genesis has been on par with Lexus and lower than Acura - and that was before the launch of the GV80 and new G80.

Since then, should be lower than Lexus.

YEH

The price hike isn't, by itself, the problem.

It's that in conjunction with midsize dimensions and weight, but only offering comoact level of rear seat room (and on the lower side at that).

Even with the price hike, would still offer a value play if it actually offered midsize accommodations, but a tough sell when it offers no more room than the IS or G70 (note - which aren't exactly big sellers for the same reason).

ELIN

A local dealer has the following advertised for the TLX:

2021 TLX Base FWD
36 month lease
7500 miles/year
$2991 due (loyalty/conquest rebate is assumed)
Lease end termination fee $0 (if this is equivalent to the "disposition fee," very interesting that they are waiving this right off the bat!)

$319/month

Knight Rider 357

From the get go it is almost like they wanted it to be mediocre and not sell. They made so many bad decisions on the new TLX.

The biggest and worst mistake was dropping the J series V6. Why on earth would they do that when it was a very popular seller and something that was a step up from a Accord since they made the foolish move to drop the V6 from the Accord too. Worse is they simply dropped the same engine from the Accord Sport with no real bump in power so the TLX is actually quite a bit slower then the Accord from the big weight gain and it is not even really fuel efficient. When a Accord buyer wants to move up to a nicer car they take a look at the TLX and likely want a V6 or better performance/power which they don't get and wonder what is the point with going with the TLX when it is slower then my Accord with the same basic engine. The less refined sluggish 4 cylinder has to cover all bases too, from a entry level TLX all the way up to a A Spc or Advance that starts hitting 50K territory, that is just crazy to use a Accord 4 cylinder for that, it may work for their entry level CUV but it won't work for their sedan which right now is also their flagship sedan. There should have been a reasonably priced 300-310hp 6 cylinder option or standard once prices get over 43 or 44K. They never even bothered to tune the 4 cylinder for more power like around 300hp to try to offset the weight over the Accord. The excuse that a V6 is coming doesn't work because this is a more specialized model that will be priced over 50K and likely won't sell because most people don't want to spend that kind of money on a more entry level Acura sedan performance version and it won't exactly be putting out big numbers with just 355hp.

Then you have the interior space/rear seat room that has not changed or improved from the 1st Gen TLX despite the huge gain in size and weight mainly to try to make a compromised FWD trans sedan look long RWD. I am 6 foot and the rear seat of the TLX is just uncomfortable, cramped, and odd for me to sit back there, I never had that issue with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Gen TL's. Who allowed it to gain so much in size yet not be any roomier in the areas that it needed it.

The interior is basically just a copy of a RDX, nothing too special, nothing new, same annoying interface.

The exterior styling is just okay, it has been totally watered down, lost all the pizzaz the blue Type S concept had, and as usual they gave it terrible looking wheels like the last TLX which totally ruin the look. Why do the new MDX wheels look so much better and sportier then the TLX wheels, the Type S looks to be the only TLX with decent wheels which is going to cost a lot of money.

The price has gone up significantly for a less refined engine, with less power, that is slower and less real world fuel efficient then the V6 in this sedan that supposedly is focusing more on being sporty/performance, they totally missed the mark.

YEH

^ That pretty much sums it up.

The majority buyers in the segment would much rather have the extra inches to rear leg room than trying to ape a RWD profile (which is why the ES is a perennial best seller despite being dull to drive).

If the TLX had offered 5 Series level rear room at 3 Series prices, then they would have had something.

ELIN

You've just named 2 cars in the luxury mid-size segment (5 series and ES).

The TLX competes in the "compact car" segment. No one buying in this segment is expecting great legroom.
You have to pony up a lot more money to get that mid-size segment room.

Let's not talk about why Acura made the exterior bigger but not the interior any more as that's "dead horse" territory. Just accept Acura created needless confusion and move on from there.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

dzionny_dzionassi

Acura will have to accept that they made biggest packaging mistake. Sales will tank big time. I wonder who approved decision like that.
And since when TLX should be competing in compact car segment? What is ILX? "Mini"?
Per Acura:
2021 Acura TLX - Premium Sport Sedan
2021 Acura ILX - Luxury Compact Sport Sedan

YEH

You kinda missed my whole point in bringing up both.

Stated that the TLX should offer 5 Series sized passenger space (not that it should compete against the 5er), but at its current 3 Series level pricepoint, the exact same pricepoint where the ES resides.

The ES is actually on a full-size FWD platform (Avalon), but Toyota didn't move the ES up a price segment (where all the other full-size FWD/transverse lux barges resided - XTS, Continental and Acura's own RLX) because they knew it would cost them sales volume (price-wise, the ES resides in the compact/entry-level price point).

As it turned out, the ES not only widely outsold the other 3, but is the last man standing (even without the benefit of AWD).

Why does the MDX sell as well as it does?

It's the only lux branded 3-row (with an actual usable 3rd row) at its pricepoint (well, there is also the mediocre QX60; the RX-L doesn't count because the 3rd row is useless).

As for legroom in the compact segment - gee, guess which compact offerings have/had been struggling in sales...

G70, IS, Giulia, not to mention the discontinued ATS and XE.

What were they all widely criticized for? Cramped rear space compared to the German offerings.

The latest 3 Series increased its rear passenger space and the upcoming C Class is doing so (you think the Germans are doing it for no reason?).

The G70 hasn't been able to outsell the Stinger despite having a lux badge and being a significantly more popular bodystyle (sedan versus liftback).

The prime reason is because the Stinger offers more room at the 2nd row.

ELIN

I already recommended in another thread that Acura should kill off the category they started. There's a really good reason why the GLE and GV80 only offer that third row as an option (spoiler: folks buying in this range don't really need that third row).

Forget the GV80! Acura is losing MDX market share to the likes of the Telluride, Palisade, CX9, etc. that can arguably called just as "premium" as the MDX when fully loaded and costing thousands less.

ELIN

TLX is compact luxury
ILX is entry-level compact luxury (would compete with A Class, A3, 1 series, etc.)

Car and Driver -
"The new Acura TLX shows that Honda's luxury brand is finally taking sports sedans seriously again. It looks significantly more athletic and promises far better performance than the TLX it replaces, which should help it elbow its way into the competitive entry-luxury sports-sedan segment. We decided to compare the TLX with one of its closest rivals, the Audi A4 (and S4), to see how Acura's new entry stacks up to one of the most well-established German sedans in this segment."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...vs-audi-a4-s4/

Acura-
Compares TLX to Lexus IS300 (that's a compact, right?)

https://www.acura.com/compare/lexus-is-vs-acura-tlx

CNET-
"Yet at the same time, the TLX is still priced below its main competitors, namely the Audi A4, BMW 3 Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. (See how they all stack up in our spec comparison.) The TLX is also slightly larger than those German rivals, but offers similar levels of luxury and more standard equipment."

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...cing-official/

Are you guys new to Acura? I thought it was common knowledge who the TLX competes with (again, leave out the exterior growth which Acura completely FUBAR).

YEH

^^ Like I had stated, the real threat to the MDX is the next CX-9 (RWD + straight 6), for those looking for a little more handling in their 3-row.

But yes, the top trims of the Telluride and Pallisade have been stealing sales, in large part due to the roomier 3rd row (and in the case of the Telluride, it's sheetmetal).

There have been prospective buyers who really want the Telluride SXP, but either have to pay thousands over list or wait months if they order.

A # of them have been contemplating getting the outgoing MDX because of the deals one can get on them (less than what they would be paying for the Telluride).

Models like th GV80, X5 and GLE are 4/5+2, not really full fledged 3-rows.

Buyers who want a real 3rd row get an X7 or the GLS (yes, a whole price segment up, which is why the MDX has been such the value play in the 3-row lux segment).

The Aviator is kinda a tweener in price btwn the mid and full size price points.

ELIN

[Rhetorical question] What happens to that traditional value play when they get pressure from below?

YEH

^ I've been saying that all along, that's the risk going with a FWD/transverse (or majority) lineup.

Both Acura and Lexus have had to increase incentive spending (do we really need to talk about Nissan+, er, Infiniti?) as mainstream brands have started offering models encroaching on premium territory.

Last Q, Lexus incentive spending was boosted 10% to $6,163 (in contrast, Toyota incentive spending was down).

Acura incentive spending was up 8% to $5,890 (note, Lexus ATP is $10k higher) with Honda spending flat.

ELIN

I think I'm pretty much done with the "premium" market. Too much hedging and posturing. I most likely will be going back to the Germans 3 yrs from now.

sonyfever

I do believe you get what you pay for at the end of the day. German cars always have a larger sweet spot in dynamics, materials (let's ignore the flops like F30 3-seriesand the W204 C), and tech. You know few shortcuts have been taken.

Knight Rider 357

Why is the TLX even competing in the compact car segment? Is that what TL buyers wanted, a smaller car with a 4 cyl? Why did interior room shrink so much from the 4th Gen TL to the TLX? What was the point of trying to combine the TSX and TL when both lineups were successful and had repeat buyers especially when the results were TL buyers just ended up with a smaller, crappier, cost cut car with a 4 cylinder where the 6 cylinder used to be. I know why they did it, to cut costs and make a FWD transverse RLX seem like a better care when it should have been a full on RWD flagship with a V8, problem is the entire lineup suffered from that cost cutting "smart luxury" experiment. TSX buyers now had to choose between a bulkier not as sporty TLX or punch down to a really crappy civic based ILX, TL buyers now had a smaller, more cost cut car they are paying more for if they want a V6, and RL buyers did not get the mid sized or full sized RWD sporty flagship they wanted with much more power, they got a soft cost cut FWD V6 car with mediocre power/acceleration, fake wood trim, etc until the complex hybrid arrived which looked exactly like the bland RLX, cost significantly more and still wasn't exactly the sporty luxury car experience/ride they were looking for. Sales fell for all these models, RLX was a last place failure, ILX was a dud, TLX had mid pack sales but it did hit a sweet spot with a relatively affordable V6 awd package which kept sales up. Nobody really wanted a compact TL or TLX to remain with a cramped interior, most were expecting it to gain interior room and to retain that great package with a affordable V6 with a bump in power but Acura did not do that, they kept the interior the same cramped size and took away the V6 for a less refined sluggish 4 cylinder to cover all the bases, even Advances at 50K. It would have made more sense to give the TLX a RWD platform instead of doing all that work to try to make a compromised FWD trans platform look RWD, with a RWD platform they could then build RWD coupes and a competitive mid to full sized sedan along with a sports car, RWD also is the better choice for implementing EV/hybrid systems. I believe the 3 series is roomier then the new TLX so that blows out the FWD cars are always roomier then RWD ones of roughly the same size. The TLX is also now Acura's flagship sedan so that is even worse that it is still pretty much 4cyl only with a cramped compact interior, who okayed these bone headed decisions.

Why does Acura even bother with the sub entry class with the ILX? Those sales are small, they do nothing for the brand other then lower it, there is likely barely any profit, and the civic nudges at that price point. They should instead have focused on a competitive mid size or full size RWD sedan where the platform can be utilized for other models, that would build up the image of the brand and make it more competitive which Acura desperately needs, it would also fully eliminate any talk of just fancy Honda's or Honda rebadges yet they do the same thing over and over again with the same mostly failed/mediocre results.

The price is what really matters with buyers, they normally buy the most they can afford, a 5 series sized car interior wise for a 3 series price is more enticing, a 5 series sized/weight car that has less room then a 3 series does not make much sense to many buyers especially when it is 4 cyl only, sluggish acceleration, not very good fuel economy, and the same annoying interior design/interface as the RDX. Why would anyone get excited about that or be ready to turn in their V6 Shawd TLX for a 4 cylinder with no more room and less performance.

ELIN

The only car manufacturer who would have been foolish enough to do that would have been Acura and they went the opposite direction. Why foolish? No one with luxury aspirations wants to go further down the rabbit hole with more "value products." With the '19 RDX, '21 TLX and '22 MDX, Acura wanted to establish an identity and they have done that (for better or for worse).

Acura's decision-making so far doesn't exhibit an "infinite mindset." They are playing a game where they hope to "win", as opposed to making their existing products better. Current strategy appears to be imitation but it hasn't rewarded them at all. If Apple had the same mindset as Microsoft (with a finite-minded Ballmer), their iPod would have never trashed the Zune player back in the day.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hope is not a strategy.

ELIN

Some bold claims by Throttle House. I do see that the 5 and 3-series have lost a lot of luster according to recent reviews. Beating the E-Class is a challenge but I do hope Genesis gives all these Germans a run for their money! It's always nice to have more options!

pyrodan007

New MDX seems to be a hit; not so much for the new TLX.
On a side note, Honda crossovers had a good month since all of them saw a bump. I don't think we can use the pandemic as an excuse for the TLX anymore.

ELIN

I would imagine most of the MDX sales were more of the 2020 fire sale variety. Not enough 2022's made it to dealerships to make a dent in Feb and most are still waiting for theirs in March.

Don't get me wrong, the '22 MDX is a hit but you will have to wait for March and April numbers to make that judgment since the supply is not meeting demand.