Speed Guy

Not sure how that is against the rest of the market, but these numbers are not good.

TSX69

Forgot to update this by adding in the Mercedes C Class:

ES 43,292 -16.2%
3series 41,442 -20.1%
Cclass 26,294 -46.5%
TLX 21,785 -17.9%
A4 18,341 -31%
Q50 16,533 -36.4%
CT5 14,711
IS 13,600 -9.4%
MKZ 12,518 -29.4%
S60 11,946 -31.8%
Giulia 8,203 -6%
LaCrosse 230 -96.8%
ATS 116 -89.8%

ELIN

That TLX tanked like crazy! Ouch!

ELIN

Why does your TLX number not match the Acura website result?

fiatlux

Say it with me again, sedans are dead, crossovers are king.

Pens Fan

I think Acura needs to step up the incentives both leasing and financing to stimulate demand. Clearly they have misread demand for the car at the current level of support they have offered so far. Many dealers are sitting with tons of unsold units.

ELIN

Not good since I hear some dealers got some surplus 2020 MDX stock!

jhb31

Civic sales were down over 20% almost the same as the TLX. Don't read into this data too much.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

As a member here stated the following:

If you have been following the history of Acura, you will see that Acura always strives to go upmarket, in terms of brand recognition and product pricing, to the same level as Audi, BMW, Lexus, and MB. So its strategy is to increase its product pricing slowly and gradually, and hope that buyers will start to accustom to the new premium pricing, and slowly bring the brand upmarket.


---------------------

The sedan segment is dead and cross overs / SUV are strong as they have been. The TLX sales tanked again but i'd be more concern if the new MDX sales tank due to the new costs. Acura is dancing on that 50/50 line for sales.

fiatlux

To be fair, this was the last model year for the Civic, whereas it's the first model year for the TLX. Also, cheaper cars are generally impacted more because poorer people are being hit harder than wealthier people during the pandemic. Case in point, Passport and Pilot sales are up, CRV sales are flatish, whereas HRV sales are down considerably.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

The crazy thing is; the perception is already there.
in casual conversation, I'll come across people that all state the same "Oh an Acura? I couldn't afford one" . said the recently hired attorney

dmski

Uhmmm, latest TLX sales are a disaster.... They are creeping up to that ancient ILX numbers. Pricing is just off. I just don't see them rebounding unless they start discounting. If Acura plans not to discount they will enjoy sales of 1500 to maybe 2000 per month. Now Type S is about to drop, really curious how they will price it. Read the market wrong and end up with NSX sales 2.0 aka dust collectors at the dealerships.

leomio85

Looks like a 3G TLX is going to be highly unlikely. Looking at the rest of the segment, it doesn't seem like anything Acura did really made people reject the vehicle, the segment itself is just dying. I mean, when you have the RDX which basically performs equally as well as the TLX but with more practicality, it's no wonder. Even the curb weights are about the same. Sure, the TLX handles better, but the vast majority of people buying cars don't care ... mainly because your average car buyer isn't an enthusiast and can't f*cking drive worth a damn anyways. I thought maybe the proportions would grow on me, but I'm not at all a fan of the new TLX either after seeing them in person and even standing and looking at it for extended periods of time. It's just not my cup of tea. I'd think Acura would be braindead not to stick this 3.0T in a 4G RDX Type-S spec.

Then again, that CT4-V Blackwing they just revealed makes things very interesting. 6MT since I don't commute to NYC anymore, with that 3.6TT ... that can reliably be tuned to an easy 530+rwHP w/ bolt-ons, YES please! Type-S anything won't be able to touch those numbers without E85 and an upgraded turbo, if the drivetrain can even cope with much more power than stock. Only issue will be production. GM seems they're taking a very cautious approach and seeing demand before ramping up production. Doubt you'll be getting much incentives off these at all. Starting at $59k, and likely mid-$60k well equipped, an acceptable premium over what the Type-S has shaped up to be. And not having to deal with rage-inducing German asshattery .... though, the name Northstar gives me heart palpitations and causes me to want to put my fist thru something. Plus, GM has burned me in the past, so maybe not ... but it's like that crazy chick who's batshit crazy but is an absolute rockstar in bed. Keeps hurting me, but I keep coming back for more ...

leomio85

I just checked Long Island dealers. 4/6 have well over 100 2020 MDXs in stock. The other two have 89 and 95 units. Plenty of TLXs sitting around too. How the heck do they expect them to sell all those units with the new ones starting to hit lots? I'm gonna go down with the $23 cash in my wallet right now and see if they're willing to part with one of their MDXs. Might just get lucky, lol.

fiatlux

Geeze, I just checked because I couldn't believe it for myself. Almost all of them Base or Tech models too; I only counted a half dozen A-Spec and Advance models. They must be expecting some really price sensitive individuals looking to buy those cars.

TSX69

The TLX 21,785 is for the whole year of 2020:

https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...ng-2020-finish



# # #


Back in the good ol days we could compare monthly numbers but now that most manufacturers have switched to quarterly reporting, year-end is the easiest way to do it.

leomio85

It could just be a product of being dumbasses. I hear wonderful stories of people getting deep discounts via email. While shopping around doing the same, every dealer ghosted me once I started asking about incentives off sticker. Even going down in person, it was like pulling teeth. We spoke with a guy at Island Acura for a leftover 2019 RDX and he got visibly pissy when we wanted a discount when we were purchasing in July 2020 ... and the 2020 models were already hitting the lots. WTF? I wouldn't be surprised if these moronic dealers are still asking for close to sticker, hence, why they're still around. Then again, why the fuck are there 6 goddamn Acura dealers on Long Island? It's probably the highest density of Acura dealers in the country per square mile. Goddamn mouth-breathing Long Islanders. All the more reason I know they're not going to be budging on Type-S prices, even if they sit around for years.

BEAR-AvHistory

[QUOTE=leomio85;16686867]It could just be a product of being dumbasses. I hear wonderful stories of people getting deep discounts via email. While shopping around doing the same, every dealer ghosted me once I started asking about incentives off sticker. Even going down in person, it was like pulling teeth. We spoke with a guy at Island Acura for a leftover 2019 RDX and he got visibly pissy when we wanted a discount when we were purchasing in July 2020 ... and the 2020 models were already hitting the lots. WTF? I wouldn't be surprised if these moronic dealers are still asking for close to sticker, hence, why they're still around. Then again, why the fuck are there 6 goddamn Acura dealers on Long Island? It's probably the highest density of Acura dealers in the country per square mile. Goddamn mouth-breathing Long Islanders. All the more reason I know they're not going to be budging on Type-S prices, even if they sit around for years.[/QUOTE]

They sit around for years you can buy one cheap at the liquidation sale. Once the floor plan interest starts to hurt the discounts will start to be offered. Easier to discount the car than it is to pay interest you will never get back.

jhb31

Last year or not the civic sells. January sales with covid and many buyers are looking for suvs at this time of the year. The TLX as offered just doesn't have much without a V6 offering to get many buyers to move up. The price of the 2021 tlx are high when you can get a 1st gen tlx awd A-spec for more than 10k less with low mileage and outside of some changes is not that much different.

I kinda agree with your point though but civics sell regardless of new model. Frankly used civics 2 to 3 years old are not much cheaper than buying a new one. Just like if you want a 2-3 year old tacoma. They hold value exceptionally well.

Honda430

On occasion I take a look at the So Cal TLX inventory numbers shown on Cargurus. It appears that the only models selling are SHAWD Advance and Aspec. My thoughts are that the base and tech versions don’t offer enough goodies to justify the price. The question that begs an answer is what percentage of the previous generation sales were occupied by the 4 cylinder model. That buyer would be the most affected by the 4K price jump. Quite definitely most of the 2015-2020 model I see in passing are the 4s.

Now that they’ve rolled out the MDX I think they should concentrate on getting the ILX replacement to market. They can probably do decent numbers with a SHAWD ILX in Aspec or Advance trim with a price in the neighborhood of $35k to $37k.

csmeance

Slows sales is acura trying to charge a premium price on a "dated" product. Exterior looks good for a 2G TLX; and the TLX-S looks even better for a 2022 model.

If this hit the market in 2019 it would have sold in incredible amounts. How many people complained of the "ipad/screen" placed on the dash like the 2013 MB CLA with controls that foks didn't like. Acura decided to use that same idea on a 2022-2025 car at a minimum. Pretty dumb move on their part when they can easily see how their german counterparts (MB) have addressed this in a much better fashion such as with a touchscreen and good voice controls. Add into that the lack of customization/personalization (if you are paying a premium price, you want premium touches), terrible reputation with new trans and you have a slow selling car.

Don't even forget that the folks buying a TLX would be more inclined to get an Accord as they share even more features than ever. TLX-S is whole different game.

Solution:
Give a 5K Loyalty bonus off MSRP to any current acura owner and trust me, they will fly off dealer lots. Tons of 1G TLX owners would take advantage of that. I'd take advantage of it on a TLX-S and put a deposit down.

5K is about 10% of the price of a TLX but it's a fraction of what they'll spend trying to gain our trust with new products over time at a premium price. 1G TLX owners got hosed paying MSRP for 2015 TLX only to have badly shifting cars, infotainment systems that didn't work well and were incredibly dated in 2 years (no carplay upgrade offered to 2015/16 owners). 3G MDX owners had the same issue with their launch vehicles. Acura can get away with it on an SUV which is a hot market, but not in sedans where they are slow. After having a reputation of forgetting prior customers, it's pretty much wishful thinking....

For the love of cars and auto enthusiasts, ACURA, please move faster!

fiatlux

Anecdotally, most of the 1G's I see are the 4cyl variety, not V6. The issue with the V6 model is that unless you really want an Acura...there are better alternatives for the price. Quite frankly, nobody else makes something that really competes with the 2.4L at that price point, which is what made it such a good value.

sonyfever

I know and have been saying the segment is helpless, but the latest number is plain ugly. Unless you are like Hyundai group which can spread the cost throughout 3 brands, there is really no reason for Acura to fight a lost battle with swiss knife. The only way forward for this segment is EV as volume maker, with the sporty version having gasoline or hybrid engine. I hope Acura gives up the compact sedan, and bring a compact CUV or SUV instead.

The only thing I worry about 4G MDX is it being too sporty. The car is highly competitive with a fair price, if you are in the 3-row market you will see the great value immediately.

leomio85

I think the MDX will sell well. It seems like it hits all the right marks. I do see a potential problem with the Type-S if it's going to be near the $70k pricetag. Time will tell. I think for the more pedestrian models though, SG hits the nail on the head ... it's a nice, upscale people-mover where performance isn't much of a concern so long as it isn't completely gutless, which it isn't. Honestly, I can see Acura releasing a compact CUV and killing off the TLX and ILX by decade's end.

Legend2TL

Even with COVID19 the 2G TLX sales numbers are not good. I'm wondering if the 2G TLX will be the last ICE for the Acura mid-size sedan (since most Acura tend to be on 5-6 year design cycles) as I expect a EV introduction in a few years for Acura?

dmski

EV TLX will not sell. Now that Tesla has a model Y their model 3 sales will suffer as well. Please stop dreaming about EV TLX. I also wonder when Acura will throw in the towel on the sedans but we just might see 2nd gen TLX for sale for 10 years just like Lexus is doing with IS....

Pens Fan

Agreed-for sure Covid is affecting sales and January/February are always slow months for car sales but 1,300 sales is abysmal especially considering that Acura has produced over 10,000. I have yet to see one on the road. A lot of money was spent designing this car and a slow start is clearly not what Acura envisioned especially with the current pricing and lack of aggressive incentives. They made several missteps in my opinion on launch-no pull ahead allowed for returning leases, interest rate over 4% for leasing (cost of money is much lower than that) and dealers not recognizing that with the increased sticker price they needed to be more aggressive in pricing as well. Most reviews of the car have been very positive (except for the True Touchpad- another head scratching decision). Without a much more aggressive incentive program instituted relatively soon i don't see the car gaining more traction. Several larger dealers inventory I check on Long Island/New Jersey have not sold a single Advance AWD model the entire month of January!!!

Legend2TL

Well I didn't say anything about dreaming of a EV TLX

But I expect there's are several all new EV platforms at Honda/Acura now being evaluated in early design concept stages.
What'll get released? Who knows, but with Audi announcing all their main sedans will be EV by the end of the decade, I expect others to be following.
This decade will be a interesting wild ride for the auto industry in terms of EV adoption and proliferation.

As for 10 years? That's a long time for any Acura outside the NSX, Honda/Acura typically doesn't make their tooling last that long.

ELIN

Did you take a peek at the TLX owner's sign-in thread? I and others have no issue getting 9% or close to it off MSRP (I got mine a month after debut).
Deals are being made but folks are voting with their wallets.

Pens Fan

Yes I have seen the sign in thread-but in general the car is overpriced due to current market conditions. If Acura put a $3,000 loyalty incentive on the car like they did last May on the 2020 RDX and reduce the interest rate for both leasing and financing a purchase to .99% that might do the trick. They should try those steps and see what happens. If that does not appreciably increase sales then they have a major problem.

BEAR-AvHistory

In EV land Apple just sunk $3.5 Billion into Kia Motors for a joint venture factory in Georgia to build Apple EV cars. Planned production 100,000 units a year. (Reuters)

ELIN

Being overpriced is a different issue from what folks are paying. Folks are already getting 9-10% off.

Are you asking Acura to sell these cars at a loss?!!! Acura salesman need to eat too! The car came out only 4 months ago!

Legend2TL

that's a fair assessment, perhaps this fall is a better time and with the Type-S available too.

pyrodan007

I think it's not the price the problem but the overall experience. People see MSRP and automatically stop there since there's not guarantee on getting a deal. If lease rates suck and dealership are firm on price, zero chance of getting people to sign contracts.

On a completely different level, got a call from Audi to start negotiating my A4 lease. They know I want an S5 SB but they were super nice to understand and SUGGEST now is not the right time and will contact me again in May (residual, low inventory, better lease rates coming). If Acura is being pushy, people will just go elsewhere. The TLX does not have that money factor feature that people will splurge on, maybe the Type-S but not the regular version.

fiatlux

The unfortunate thing is that while sedans here in North America are dying, they're still thriving in other markets. The problem is that Acura doesn't sell in those other markets, whereas the Germans do; hence why the Germans will still be able to offer those cars there, because they'll still be making them. Unless Acura manages to grow their Chinese market share, or manage to penetrate the EU (good luck, since even Honda isn't doing well there), this may be it for Acura sedans.

BEAR-AvHistory

Sales suck when they should be good. A new model always does well in the first few months. The virus has screwed that paradigm up so the current numbers should not hold or be regarded as time for the funeral. I would look to the April May sales numbers to make a call on the TLX future.

Typically these month are the prime months for auto sales. Most people should have their shots by then. I get mine Saturday under the old farts program. There would normally be a lot of pent-up demand because of the stay at home restrictions for the past year. The unknown factor is how many potential buyers in the TLX income range have lost their jobs or been put on salary cuts.

Pens Fan

I am suggesting that Acura lower the money factor and increase the loyalty to $3,000 as they did last year for the "hot selling" RDX. The TLX is not in a hot segment so if they put that money on the hood last year for an SUV they seemingly can afford to try that for their current customer base (increased loyalty) to try and jump start this vehicle. If more were on the road the increased visibility could only help. Also the interest being paid by dealers for the large inventory of TLX out there has a cost associated with it that could be alleviated.

Just my suggestion to Acura-not that they follow what we write on AcuraZine !!!

ELIN

1) 9-10% is already >>> $3000. To make the loyalty rebate "official" at $3000 would just absolutely reek of desperation and make TLX an automotive laughing stock in its first year.

2) The money factor on my lease came out to a bit over 4% equivalent APR. This may or may not have shifted in the 3 months I've had the car.

Based on what you want Acura to do, they should just give up on the sedan segment altogether as it only gets worse from here.

Pens Fan

I am leasing a 2018 SH-AWD TLX (Tech) that expires the end of February. Like a few other posters here that have gone down to one car due to driving significantly less because of Covid, I am planning to do the same. I test drove a 2021 SH-AWD Advance in early October and liked the car. I would hope it succeeds and that Acura remains in the sedan segment. In fact I may lease one at a future date. However the car is off to a very slow start and that does not bode well for a new model. My suggestions are only made to have Acura jump start the car sooner rather than later. They have somehow misread demand so far and produced way too many cars that are sitting on dealer lots. They have two likely choices-significantly reduce production or significantly increase incentives.

ELIN

From my limited experience with Acura (~3 years), it appears Acura beats to their own drum and makes a lot of head scratching decisions.

There's always the possibility I will buy out this 2G TLX 2.5 years from now but this might be the last Acura for me. When the lease is up, I will most likely be buying anywhere from 1 to 2 CPO vehicles.