BEAR-AvHistory

They come out of the same factory in Marysville OHIO. Does Honda dial back the robots putting the Accord together?

Honda USA Manufacturing plants.

Click on Marysville OH.

F23A4

yes, I did NOT expect that it would be that high of a %.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

When I was working for North NJ Acura Dealership, a majority of the vehicles sold were base models. I also found it strange.

robnalex

Regarding the FWD vs SH-AWD discussion, most people think that AWD is basically for snow and are not aware that Acura's SH-AWD really is super for handling. We were in the same boat until we researched our 2019 RDX. Having experienced the SH-AWD in that car for 2 years is a significant reason we purchased a TLX with SH-AWD. You can take a curve hard and fast and it sticks like glue- absolutely amazing!

Legend2TL

jjsC5

The only TLX that might deserve the Sport Sedan moniker is the S in my opinion. My definition of a sport sedan likely differs from others, of course. There is no car dictionary that tells us what makes a car a sport sedan. “Sport” is so misused that it’s worth,ess to go by what the manufacturer calls it.

I think it’s very rare that a front drive platform deserves the definition. Some front drive platforms equipped with all wheel drive can get there. But what about a car that 80% of the ons that people buy are not equipped with the parts that make it a sport sedan - like a sport package? Or does the car have to have enough handling prowess in base form to allow it to be classified as a sport sedan?

BEAR-AvHistory

The term was originally introduced in Europe during the 1930s and early examples include the Sports Saloon versions of the Rover 14 and Rover 16. From the 1960s, the term sports sedan was increasingly applied by manufacturers to special versions of their vehicles that allowed them to enter production cars in motor races. The first generally recognized sports sedan in the USA was the 1969 BMW 2002Ti 4door

Base 2002 model with a single carburetor developed 101 hp and a 2002Ti sports sedan version fitted with twin Solex 40 carburetors and a higher compression engine delivering 119 hp and a top speed of 115 mph. This gave the 2002Ti performance to match cars like the the Austin-Healey 3000 MkIII but in a four seater car with decent boot space.

This was a time when you could actually drive your car to a race & drive it home if you did not kill it. Had a TR-3A, TR-3B & a Morgan +4SS (modified TR-3B engine). You could not beat a factory team who always seemed to have next years hardware in SCCA regional racing but the club races were a lot of fun.

Like the term COUPE, Sports Sedan has been bastardized by the various marketing departments to include anything with a tacked on spoiler.

loki

loki

Yes. I grow tired of telling/explaining to people that Acura's AWD shines more on dry than wet pavement. I think 99% of Acura owners who have SHAWD on their cars have never, not even once have driven it the way it can be driven. For example, in a roundabout or tight curve. Most, if not all people who go into a ditch with AWD is because they don't understand that AWD doesn't mean AW-Brake. Just look at the SHAWD gauge when off-gas and on-brake, nothing is being applied to the wheels...NOTHING. You need to hammer it at the apex and let the rear wheels do their magic and rotate the car out of corner. Most of these RDXs and MDXs are driven by people who have no clue, don't want a clue, don't care and never will care. They just want to know they have AWD when it snows so they can get to their next errand.

SebringSilver

It’s so odd that Acura doesn’t actually put it’s supposedly world-beating AWD system in a car that is capable of exploiting the system.

Legend2TL

^ The 2G NSX uses Acura's SH-AWD system to great performance effect. The RLX SH-AWD (sorta a NSX in reverse for drivetrain layout) used to as well until it was discontinued.

BEAR-AvHistory

About 85% of the people I follow on my road, twisty & hilly, ride the brake the brake through most flat curves & through every downhill curve with very light throttle on the up hill curves. Those that don't are usually in "drivers" cars. You are not going to convince anyone who can pass the typical US MVD drivers test to throttle through a curve.

Why I said US MVD test is that they are a joke. Lived in the UK for 8 years as an Irish citizen & had a local drivers license. The drivers test is very extensive. Actually passed it the first time through which is not than normal for most US expats that take two & three shots to pass.

Nothing about being a great driver just had a number of performance driving schools behind me & an SCCA production car license.

Camaro194

I'm fortunate to live in a hilly area with many winding "country" roads and I notice the same behavior. The same roads that I drive without touching the brakes have others hitting the brake on every turn. It's fun to have a RWD or SHAWD car on the tight bends.

robnalex

Dude, you're harsh, but you're also correct. 😁

SebringSilver

But that’s just branding. The SH-AWD in the TLX, RDX, and MDX isn’t the same as that used in the cars you mentioned. Similar to how Audi’s Torsen differential and Haldex systems are both called Quattro, even though they’re different systems.

robnalex

Hell, I see people breaking into turns needlessly even in FWD cars. The fact is that there are a lot of people on the road who really don't know how to drive.

Legend2TL

No, it's just technology they're just different systems using different solutions to achieve similar effect. The overall concept is very similar for vehicle dynamics

F23A4

leomio2.0

If they do do this (I know you were being sarcastic), think they mixed up the orders when they were building my RDX in East Liberty, OH. My 2002 CR-V was built better. Though, it wasn’t assembled in the US, which therein may be the root of the issue.

loki

I got my US license at 16 by driving one block in a village in Chicago suburb. Literally one block. Less than 5 minutes. Two years later, when I turned 18, I spent months in driving school in Serbia and got put through a ringer for regular driver's license that US CDL wouldn't be able to match. I did 80 hours of road driving with the hardest Serbian old school government employed instructor you can imagine. My US "instructor" wrote on my paperwork "lots of experience" (had nearly zero) during my test. Two years later, after driving 20-30K miles in US, the instructor in Serbia made me feel like it was my first time in a car, ever. This is after driving for 2 years in US. The second I went to leave the parking lot, he yelled STOP - you failed. Then he gave me a laundry list of things I didn't do before leaving. Times 80 hours over 2 months. There isn't a scenario that he didn't put me through at least 5 times. City, village, major metro area, highways, "goat roads", etc., night, rain, dry, fog, etc. So yes...you're 100% correct about US MVD being a complete joke.

My wife's favorite saying is "you're not wrong...you're just an asshole."



Yes. Yes, I am.

SebringSilver

So…in other words, a Corolla is the same as an LFA since they both get you from point A to point B using four wheels, sheet metal, and a steering wheel?

frainc

I also had a 2015 Accord Coupe with the V6. Was a great car and not one problem. Yes, my 2018 Accord EX-L 2.0 was also a great car that I really enjoyed driving. With that said, with the Tech option I fine that this TLX is just much better than the Accord. Living with the TLX for the past 4 months I am very happy that I got this car as the ride is better than the Accord, the materials are better and the 13 speaker ELS system just blows me away. Again, overall the TLX Tech is a real solid car and it adds up to be a big improvement from the Accord. I got the FWD TLX for $38,000, so not too bad and again, for me, I'm glad I got it and enjoying it every time I drive it.

Legend2TL

Yeah, you keep drinking your illogical koolaid

Tony Pac

I love your gif hahaha! This applies to all the "True/Real Enthusiasts of NA" We have plenty of them here coincidently lol!

Legend2TL

+1,

I saw his first statement and I was like what considering the NSX's implementation of Acura's SH-AWD idea/concept.

What's interesting on the latest Ferrari supercar SF90 has adopted a extremely similar AWD system as the 2G NSX (two front electric motors and one rear integrated ICE/electric motor).
Even the batteries are in the same position and uses brake by wire like the TLX and NSX

jhb31

This was my feeling as well. Had both the TLX FWD and AWD variants and (I have posted this before) the SH-AWD is fantastic on dry roads as well as wet. I drive way over on the enthusiast side and there was no comparison on dry pavement going into and out of turns. I would imagine for the more conservative driver the FWD model is just fine and if they live in an area with snow then they should opt for AWD. I have always thought the cost of the SH-AWD option was a bargain at sub 2k extra.

robnalex

Amen! 👍🏻

SebringSilver

Its pretty clear who are the ones drinking Acura’s Koolaid around here. SH-AWD in an NSX is nothing like what you get on the TLX. But if you want to believe that and it makes you feel better about buying a TLX, then so be it. Score one point for Acura’s ongoing campaign of lies.

BEAR-AvHistory

Quick question. With a rear mid engine car exactly where else would you put the electric motors to get AWD & also the batteries?

Legend2TL

Porsche 918 only had one front electric motor, vs two on the NSX and SF90 which provided differential torsional forces as well different torque. And modern LiOn batteries can be made to fit any space/location that suits the designer, there are many locations.
Most tend to putting them in a flat floor arrangement is most common for many EV/hybrid. Honda/Acura choose behind the seats in a almost vertical rectangle arrangement.
Same location Ferrari used for the SF90.

Legend2TL

Next time try to understand what you wrote

Again, you keep drinking your illogical koolaid

BEAR-AvHistory

GM has a twin 50bhp electric motor setup for the E-Ray front wheels & an 495BHP ICE RWD. Batteries will most likely be placed in the extra wide tunnel. Point is nothing special about one or two motors on the front wheels for AWD. Its pretty much all you can do to have a rear mid engine AWD car. The original concept was a single torque vectoring package.

The fame on all the C8 Stingrays built to date have plates bolted over the mounting positions & pass throughs for the electrics.

DubPK

Yeah, obviously the SH-AWD is at it's best on dry roads pushing through corners where you can find them (big bonus if you live in a nice part of the country for this sort of thing) but for those that deal with ice/snow it's an added bonus. Ground clearance will get you if you're not careful but if you're not hung up it's amazing how much AWD can help you with traction or situations like an incline with a stop where the ice is good and built up right at the top but you got some solid ground at your rear. I used to find excitement in having to get a run at certain obstacles in the winter but now that I'm spending most of my time in a bigger city vs rural areas I just want the car to go without having to think about if I need to take a run at it while contending with the traffic.

In my mind if there is more than 5 inches of snow standing or drifted freestanding on the roads I don't need to be on em but man it gets old fighting for traction in FWD at times in otherwise fine conditions.

loki

You're right but I don't think people realize how much tires play a role. For example, when I bought my CPO 2015 TLX, tires were trash. Not bald but just cheap. I bought it in December and even with SHAWD, traction on snow was nowhere near good and controllable. On the other hand, I've driven FWD cars with proper winter tires and was able to drive with far more control than bad tires on SHAWD. I am not sure why USA doesn't have winter tire requirement in the states that it snows heavily. Most of the world does this, Europe requires it by law from October 1 to May 1.

F23A4

FOLLOW UP: I asked my sales guy (same one who provided the percentages I posted earlier) which FWD trim level sells the best. He indicated that the A-Spec sells the most, followed by the Tech package. At least at this dealership, it dispels the idea that what's selling is driven by bargain hunting or cheaping out. (Also seems that I'm representative of their primary TLX buyer.)

DubPK

Definitely agree, might not be law be because a high quality pair of all seasons designed with snow in mind can do okay, had a Pontiac for a while with some Bridgestone Potenza's and they did remarkably well despite not being the Blizzak's. Maybe that's changed today (would love to know how they are today actually if anyone has em). Have some Eagle LS-2's "all season (my ass)" on the Accord now, cheaped out and paid the price they are basically useless in the snow which hasn't done me any favors. Next car no matter what it ends up being definitely going with some better rubber to go with the AWD.

Tony Pac

i have asked two dealers in Montréal about the trim: A spec is their most popular model.

someguy11

I just read a C&D article that says the 2021 Accord Sport 2.0T (0.89G) beat the 2021 TLX SH-AWD (0.87G) on the skidpad. I really can't understate how embarrassing that is - however you spin it, likely to blame the tires, which completely neutralize an otherwise undeniable systemic advantage. So much for all this "superior handling on rails in dry pavement" chatter. So we pay $2,000 extra to compensate for bad tires?

As someone without a vested interest in the Type S, I would at least expect it (with SH-AWD and decent OEM tires) to hang with some pretty stiff competition, including as one example, the Civic Type R (0.99G). Different classes? Sure. Both performance oriented though and one gets the benefit of SH-AWD.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

The TLX non type s was designed for a more refined and solid ride with a small amount of sportiness. If you want performance you are going to have to go with type s unfortunately.

F23A4

Agreed. Though I'm running the risk of further belaboring non-TLX-S discussion in a TLX-S thread, I will state that there were more than a few 'missed opportunities' when it came to the 21 TLX ...particularly where it comes to the A-Spec model, where features like more aggressive rubber and active dampers could have used to at least extend the model's handling prowess. And I still say they could have tweaked horsepower to 280-290 for the A-Spec as well; wouldn't have presented a major performance increase but it would at least be a little something above the regular model but well under the Type S.