F23A4

Honda did a GREAT job.............of completely turning the model into an appliance. I do believe that the 11G is segue to an EV 12G (or other replacement model). To that end, I believe we're seeing the Honda Accord swan song right before our eyes.

dmski

+100. Just watch the intro for it on Throttle House. LMAO

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

Accord vs TLX?

ELIN

Love the TH guys and the intro! Unfortunate that the car they were driving had so many QC issues (hood panel gap, backseat "thump" sound, etc.).

I can just imagine the Honda Corporate guys going:

We couldn't make the TLX special enough so let's increase the gap b/w the TLX and the Accord by making it boring. Boring sells, right? Just look at the Camry!

I'd be surprised if the Accord gains market share over the Camry.

F23A4

Might be obfuscated by the fact that Toyota rolls out a ton of Camry via fleet sales. That said, Accord sales have been falling ever since they ceased production of the 9G, which is still my favorite generation.

Tony Pac

Well said! Toyota Camry is available on most rental companies and as Taxi in most Canadian provinces. This is something that most people don't think or know. They jump and look at the absolute sales numbers. I started seeing GV70 and GV80 rentals as well in Montreal.

ELIN

That's a valid point. What is not in dispute is with the disappearance of the sportier 2.0L engine, the Accord now has no answer for the Camry TRD that can apparently do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds!

Tesla1856

1. Toyota still makes the Camry V6 TRD last time I checked. (cool car, stupid name) Shows direction.

2. Not sure which G is was, but my last favorite was the last MY they made the Accord Coupe (with big 4 or was it a small 6 ?) that had the real automatic-transmission (a 6-speed I think?).

Tony Pac

That's amazing and i am happy Honda finally made a wise decision. They don't need sportier Accord, when there is the handsome, TLX is out there. Those want sportier in the same category, can buy Camry

If not, upgrade to TLX and enjoy the premium and upscale car!

frainc

I bet that about 98% or more of people who got new cars last year did not care about 0-60 as a selling point. So now the Accord will go 0-60 in what, 6.2, 6.9, who cares, they are buying a Accord because of the room, the ride, trouble free car that will get them
to anywhere they need to go.

F23A4

I dont think he was highlighting any specific trim level, rather the model in general. But, it's only a matter of time before the TRD model is discontinued.

Re: Accord, yes that's the 9G Accord (13-17 model years). If I ever come across a well cared for 6MT (implicitly the V6 coupe) that's not an attempt at price gouging by the seller, I would seriously consider the purchase.

leomio2.0

The new Accord gives me 1st Gen Ford Taurus vibes.

Good for people who simply need an appliance vehicle (ie: the overwhelming majority of people who drive Accords).

And yea, I do think Acura's existence does play a factor into things. If you want "sporty" ... go to Acura. Honda is going to be the boring, appliance brand - sans the Civic Si/Type-R.

lauren01

Rings true. I’ve had an ‘84 Accord LX and ‘01 Accord EX V6. Very nice but became bored to death.

ELIN

That's not an appliance. This is an appliance...

leomio2.0

LoL. Even though that thing does 0-60 in "keep dreaming" ... you'd definitely get way more attention and props for that compared to a cookie-cutter Accord.

To this day, I still want a Honda Ruckus or Honda Monkey, but riding it around Long Island would be a death sentence.

Tesla1856

We bought a 2004 Accord V6 new for the wife. Ended up being my daily-driver for 7 years (I put on a set of Very High Speed Michelin MXV4's for it's last 8 years with us).

With the 240 hp V6 (and non-CVT auto-tranny) ... yes, looked tame but it was more of a Sleeper. If we would have had a 3-car garage, I would have kept it.

lauren01

I put the same tires on my car. Those were nice—felt like I was driving a couch.

Tesla1856

They felt safe at all speeds and in all types of weather. IIRC, they were the same as the ones that Honda shipped it with new. Pretty sure the more normal Accords got a slightly different tire.

ESHBG

Oof

2023 Honda CR-V, Accord Losing Blind Spot Warning

In response, Honda is lowering 2023 prices by $550 on affected vehicles. On the 2023 Accord, this affects the EX trim, while the new Accord Hybrid will see the change on the Sport, EX-L, Sport-L, and Touring. In the case of the CR-V, the EX and EX-L are affected, while the CR-V Sport hybrid will see the same quirk.

But is a $550 price cut really worth it for potentially giving up an important safety feature that could adversely affect a vehicle's resale value? Recent data from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) says that blind spot detection can result in as much as a 23% reduction in lane-change crashes with injuries.
https://www.carsdirect.com/automotiv...qBh43cWJ9Z_gro

ELIN

I've been saying it all along. Honda/Acura have done a horrible job securing the supply chain of these sensors/chips.

Acura hasn't de-contented their cars yet just to sell more of them but they are losing market share.

Tesla1856

Rather bizarre considering Honda (and Acura) have previously be known to place Safety high on the Priority list.

And while this is not about Acura ... one thing I noticed while comparing vehicles a while back ... Acura bundles all their Safety-tech together and every trim-level of TLX (even "Base") gets all the Safety-tech. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Justy48

One reason I purchased a new 2021 Acura TLX Type-S was to acquire safety features that were missing from my otherwise pristine 2011 BMW 335i Coupe. I am now (or was) considering replacing my wife's 2017 Honda CR-V with a new CR-V Hybrid. I will not purchase any vehicle without a complete safety suite including Blind Stop Monitoring.

Tesla1856

It's a strange feature to delete for sure. IIRC, it was one of the first to be introduced back in the day.

Another important one that many manufactures like to hold-out for higher trims (or add ala-carte) is Back Cross-Traffic Warning. And if you have no Warning, you are surely not getting Mitigations either.

Tony Pac

Good decision Honda! That’s why you need to buy the best in the industry TLX and not accord!

Honda woke up now! They understood that TLX is the car to promote and make big margins. A beautiful sedan that stands out and has awesome presence. Let’s not compare accord with the beauty - TLX! Accord is a great car in its segment. Compare it to Camry!

TLX - the best in the segment!

Flapjackura

Saw the new Accord at the Chicago Auto Show. It was not really drawing much of a crowd. Blue PMC TLX Type S, production number 000/000 parked about 20 yards away was quite rightly stealing its thunder. And the Lexus LC 500 coupe, Lexus LC 500 hardtop, and RCF parked 3 in a row about 20 yards down from the TLX were stealing everybody's thunder.

JM2010 SH-AWD

The Lexus LCs are stunning cars, and they sound terrific on the road. Type S PMC is no joke, though, especially the blue ones.

WTF.Acura

Honda wants to increase sales this year and the only way to do that is sell cars without certain equipment. Instead of having to halt production they just sell them as-is. Looks like GM Execs. has been giving Honda Execs. some advice.

KrylonBlue

I can’t say that I’m surprised by this. The Accord is a bland looking car and for the most part has been for some time now. The last gen sport trim looked decent but still far too tame for me to have ever considered it much less turned my head for a second look. Unfortunately this new Accord lacks any sport design despite what Honda will likely advertise it as.

Acura has been killing it with their ASPEC and Type S trims. Their base models look so-so to me but that’s because I am drawn to sport designs.

DubPK

Athough I'm not in the market for an Accord it feels like every model since the 9th gen has been missing the charm and this looks handsome but unbelievably boring and bland with bland drivetrains to match. As much as I don't like it personally I think this is the direction Honda needs in North America if they want Acura to survive long term. You go to Honda for an appliance (sans the CSI/CTR which are hugely popular) and you go to Acura for the sportier option or AWD option in a sedan. For the longest time Acura has suffered in Honda's shadow not because Acura is necessarily bad but because you could get such insane bang for buck from Honda already.

Want a family hauler appliance? Get the Accord, CR-V or Pilot. Want a family appliance AND some sportiness then get the TLX, MDX, or RDX. This strategy sucks for Honda purists because Honda in NA gets more boring but from a business perspective they need to carve some distinction between Honda and Acura and give shoppers a reason to look at their Acura brand more. Like the Civic SI but want the hot hatch variant? Integra (would've been a knockkout with AWD but that's a different discussion). Like the Accord but want something more exciting then then a Hybrid? TLX 2.0T or 3.0T. etc.

fiatlux

Rather than neuter Honda, isn't it better from an enthusiasts perspective for them to instead make the Acura products better? I'd rather Acura be better because Acura got better, not because Honda got "worse".

WTF.Acura

The thing with HMC is that they are not hungry anymore, so upper management cannot justify the development of a new platform as they did back when the 2nd gen Legend and Vigor debuted with the long FWD layout. They left that platform to rot for over a decade without changes, which was a stupid idea because the long layout of those Acura's separated them for the Civic and Accord. They tried a resurgence before the financial crash and the tsunami in Japan with the RWD mule of the TSX that was spied and the V10 NSX, but since then they have had no reason to justify the development of anything unique for Acura or upper-ended Honda products. For Instance, VAG has MLB- EVO, which is a Long FWD platform and they have continued investment into this platform because it is utilized in so many vehicles such as the VW Touareg, Audi A/S/RS 4-8 Q/S/RS 5-8, Porsche Macan and Cayenne, Bentley Bentayga, Lamborghini Urus. VAG can justify the consistent development of MLB-Evo because they can contextualize a return on their investment.

Acura only has 4-5 models and they have not cracked 170k units in sales since 2015 and before that, they hadn’t seen that many sales since 2007. HMC, especially with the bean counters that head the company now, will never approve a multi-billion dollar new platform including a new engine and transmission that will probably only be used in the MDX, RDX, and TLX with a price range that maxes out at 75k. It is just a lot more cost-effective from a business standpoint to use the basic Accord platform and give a development team a few million dollars to do light upgrades (add back double wishbone suspension) and call it an all-new platform for an Acura product. It has even been rumored over at Temple of VTEC that the V6 that debuted with the new Type S models is not the same V6 that was original planned for the the Type S models.

It would be great to see Acura utilize its own platform independent of anything that Honda uses but that is wishful thinking because it is never going to happen.

DubPK

I don't disagree but at the same time I don't think the Accord got objectively worse for 89% of buyers (if Honda's 11% opted for the 2.0T quote is true). The Accord is still without question the best sedan on the market for the price IMO and will continue to be wildly successful with this new model while doing virtually everything right it's just the enthusiasts that will be disappointed in the bland hybrid drive train. The company is clearly positioning Acura to be the more exciting division and even if you don't like the product line today from Acura it's clear what the new direction is.

The strategy gets easier to accept if you picture both brands as one since they essentially are. Get the Honda Accord for a class leading family sedan, get the 'Honda' TLX if you want AWD or more performance/excitement from your sedan. I think these new ICE cars are just the tip of the iceberg. Honda's electric cars are going to be a Model 3 and Acura's are going to be more like Model S's and I think over time they can make that work. It's why marketing is going completely overboard / batshit insane marketing Acura as a performance division more than a luxury one and why the Integra nameplate came back to get some buzz that they've long lacked. It's hard to be a luxury focused brand these days when consumers expect all these what used to be luxury features in every car so they have to focus on something beyond just that.

I can agree with almost every hole that could be poked in this approach more than likely but from a business perspective I get it.

fiatlux

I agree, that’s why I said “worse” in quotes, but it seems like people are celebrating the fact that the TLX is better by comparison because the Accord is moving away from performance, rather than better by comparison because it’s actually getting better.

Tony Pac

I went to Hyundai dealership yesterday and spent over 2 hours and 15 minutes checking Genesis products (G70, G80 and GV70). A family member was asking my help and based on his requirements, I suggested he should check Genesis as it may meet his requirements. Due to the time constraints, we did not test drive the GV70 and pushed for Saturday.

My take on Genesis products and dealership experience.

G70 is very small and the material is far from luxurious. Except, the seats, you get the feel of driving a Hyundai Sonata or even Elantra. the back seat is useless....But it drives well and the engine is powerful. I believe the new Genesis G70 (whenever that will happen) will be a solid contender in the segment. Today, people most likely buy the G70 due to lower cost and decent power/handling.
G80 is very luxurious! Honestly, it's a very well made car and comparable to German or Japanese vehicles. But you will be paying at least $20-$25K less. Everywhere you touch is soft and feels good. It's semi-executive sedan. The driving dynamic is so so...But if you're interested in G80, get it for the luxury and smoothness. It reminds me of Lexus ES. Even the 3.5L engine is far from sportiness.
GV70 is nice and feel luxurious as well. In 2021, I test drove it for 45 minutes and from what I remember it was decent. the handling was its weak point. I believe the GV70 tries to hard to be Macan, but it's not even a SQ5

To conclude, I believe the G80 is Genesis' best product. Very well rounded and reasonably priced if you compare to A6, 5 Series and E Class. if you don't care about brand name and want a luxurious vehicle. I recommend checking the G80.

Long terms reliability and resale value? We shall see. I can say with confidence that it will not retain its value the same way as Lexus and Acura.

A big Shoutout to Genesis/Hyundai Sat-Laurent (Montreal). Howard Kobernick is a true professional and extremely patient Sales Manager. He helped and answered all our questions.

HTX2022Aspec

I had an 06 4cyl/5speed. First car I ever bought new and maybe the best car I ever owned. Wish I had been able to afford a V6/6 speed.

HTX2022Aspec

I test drove a G70 when I looked at my TLX. I really liked it. Especially with the V6. However, the lease rates were about $100 more a month than my TLX with the same terms.

Over the weekend I was parked next to one at the store and was shocked how much smaller it was compared to the TLX.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I have not driven a Genesis model, but from looking at them it seems like the standard Hyundai methodology applied to the luxury (or near luxury) market. Lots of features, flashy styling and decent initial driving impressions. But once you scrape below the surface, you find engineering misses and omissions you'd never find on a comparable Toyota/Honda model. Long term reliability seems questionable, given Hyundai/Kia's track record -- locked up 4 cylinder motors due to Engineering/Manufacturing 101 misses, random electrical fires, etc. Not to mention H/K's recent issues of shocking car theft rates due to their failure to include cheap technology -- engine immobilizers -- that the Japanese companies have routinely been installing across their lineups since the 90s. All this makes one wonder what reliability catastrophes and engineering/manufacturing failures lurk beneath the surface of their most complex vehicles.

I think I'll stick with Toyota and Honda products. Not without their flaws, certainly, but you can reasonably believe they won't deliver cars with engine blocks that were not deburred during the manufacturing process.

JM2010 SH-AWD

We had two 7G Accords in the household, an 03 EX and an 06 EX. Both with 4 cylinder/5MT powertrains. Under our combined ownership, they went almost 400,000 miles on original clutches, transmissions and engines, and were still going strong when we sold them. I just sold the 06 this week, which was driven by my son for 8 years. We bought it at CarMax for $12K in 2015; it was his first car and had 44K on it. When we sold it this week it was just under 180K, running well with everything working, no leaks, etc. Sale price was $6500 less than we paid for it, or about $800/year. We are quite happy with our 7G Accord experience. They are reliable and sturdy, comfortable vehicles, to be sure.

Tony Pac

The biggest mystery is reliability, engineering, long term ownership and built quality! The Sales Manager at Genesis was an awesome gentleman and he was very honest. I asked him this question related to reliability and long-term ownership. His response was, "my friend Genesis is less than 10 year old company. We don't know but so far our products are well received by the buyers and we don't have any major complaints."

Now he is a salesman, and he won't bush the brand. We will know in 5-10 years. There is no way we will find out today or tomorrow!

bilirubin

320 hp for the Integra Type S confirmed by Acura. That's 5 hp more than the Civic Type R.
Does this mean Type S > Type R now?
https://acuranews.ca/en-CA/releases/...eal-next-month