When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Referring to my post on 16 of March (#916):
Over the weekend, I spent another hour or so at he Hyundai dealership to evaluate their products. Our family member is very close to make his decision. I believe he will go with G80 as I mentioned earlier, it's their best product. We went a step further and checked the depreciation of G80 with the dealer and did our won homework.. Clearly, in this department Genesis as brand gets hit hard. For example, a CAD$87K G80 Sport will be around CAD$35K-$38K after 3 years of ownership.
To conclude, with G80 he will get a lot for his money and he is intending to keep the car 10 years (fingers crossed if it last that long)! All other cars in this segment will cost him at least $15-20K more with similar options. May be with a better engine and transmission but less luxurious. G80 rocks the interior. Those who are interested in G70, GV70 and G80, read my previous post (most likely helpful for Canadian buyers as the pricing model is different in the US)
Genesis as brand gets hit hard. For example, a CAD$87K G80 Sport will be around CAD$35K-$38K after 3 years of ownership.
That's just brutal. Just tell your friend to go with Lexus especially if they intend to keep it for 10+ years. Think about the potential maintenance issues. Just pay a bit more for bullet proof reliability.
That's just brutal. Just tell your friend to go with Lexus especially if they intend to keep it for 10+ years. Think about the potential maintenance issues. Just pay a bit more for bullet proof reliability.
I am 100% with you. Tbh, I stayed very unbiased in this buying process. He asked my assistance and I did my best to help him. Now there is one issue, Lexus doesn’t have any car that can be compared to G80 3.5L engine. ES is less powerful and luxurious then the G80. Acura doesn’t have anything to compare either. We have E class, 5 séries and a6 as other brands to choose. But Germans are more expensive and have less options.
Could you please explain what you mean by "less options"?
If you take an E class and built with the same exact features and options as a top trim G80, the cost will sky rocket, I believe it will cost you like $25K more. if you go with 85-90% comparable E Class and or 5 Series, they will be CAD$10K more than the G80. The fully loaded dG80, as you know when I say fully loaded, Genesis gives you A-Z will cost CAD$87K taxes included. the biggest issue with Genesis products are depreciation.
I noticed one more thing, the G80 is the "most" original vehicle in Genesis lineup. It's elegant and honestly has more premium feel than A/S6 and 5 Series.
If you take an E class and built with the same exact features and options as a top trim G80, the cost will sky rocket, I believe it will cost you like $25K more. if you go with 85-90% comparable E Class and or 5 Series, they will be CAD$10K more than the G80. The fully loaded dG80, as you know when I say fully loaded, Genesis gives you A-Z will cost CAD$87K taxes included. the biggest issue with Genesis products are depreciation.
I noticed one more thing, the G80 is the "most" original vehicle in Genesis lineup. It's elegant and honestly has more premium feel than A/S6 and 5 Series.
I understand now. I read your initial post as the Germans were not "capable" of more options.
I understand now. I read your initial post as the Germans were not "capable" of more options.
Not at all. Genesis' business model is similar to Acura. There are packages in Canada. you cannot custom any feature. You buy G80 Sport or Sport Plus. You cannot even choose light interior in GV70 3.5L. But if you get G80 Sport Plus, Genesis gives you all
i am just helping my family member. I am happy for him if he chooses the G80. But with all respect, i would not pay ~$90 for the Genesis G80. I would get a similar S6 or 5Series for that amount of money. For sure I won't be able to get for $90K all the features but I will be fine to drive a German engine.
I understand now. I read your initial post as the Germans were not "capable" of more options.
Well, there are a couple features that the German competitors don't offer period. You can't get a 3D gauge cluster on any BMW or Audi, and the only Mercedes you can get it on is the S-Class. Yeah it's kind of gimmicky, but that's what makes a luxury feature a luxury feature. They also offer a fingerprint authentication thing to start the car, which I don't believe any of the Germans offer. Whether or not you value these features is one thing, but objectively speaking they do have options you can't get elsewhere.
Not at all. Genesis' business model is similar to Acura. There are packages in Canada. you cannot custom any feature. You buy G80 Sport or Sport Plus. You cannot even choose light interior in GV70 3.5L. But if you get G80 Sport Plus, Genesis gives you all
i am just helping my family member. I am happy for him if he chooses the G80. But with all respect, i would not pay ~$90 for the Genesis G80. I would get a similar S6 or 5Series for that amount of money. For sure I won't be able to get for $90K all the features but I will be fine to drive a German engine.
Well, there are a couple features that the German competitors don't offer period. You can't get a 3D gauge cluster on any BMW or Audi, and the only Mercedes you can get it on is the S-Class. Yeah it's kind of gimmicky, but that's what makes a luxury feature a luxury feature. They also offer a fingerprint authentication thing to start the car, which I don't believe any of the Germans offer. Whether or not you value these features is one thing, but objectively speaking they do have options you can't get elsewhere.
agreed! There are some but the reason I did not mention as tbh they look nice but then you forget about them after a little while lol! But overall, you can get a similar German car but much more expensive. I am not sure if the pricing difference is massive in the US as well but in Canada, it's!
What’s the real-world fuel econ? This is where Koreans are extremely weak.
Real world, I don't know. It's a heavy car i can say that! Very powerful when you push it. But you feel the weight and you feel that this isn't a sport sedan. G80 is a car to drive smooth 120KM/H and enjoy your music with 17 speakers. Luxury interior and super soundproof.
Well, there are a couple features that the German competitors don't offer period. You can't get a 3D gauge cluster on any BMW or Audi, and the only Mercedes you can get it on is the S-Class. Yeah it's kind of gimmicky, but that's what makes a luxury feature a luxury feature. They also offer a fingerprint authentication thing to start the car, which I don't believe any of the Germans offer. Whether or not you value these features is one thing, but objectively speaking they do have options you can't get elsewhere.
3D gauge probably looks as gimmicky as it sounds. The point of a dashboard is to relay pertinent info as quickly as possible. I don't need to be staring at super nice graphics and getting into an accident. That's what a PC/video game console is for!
I haven't been with BMW very long but I do appreciate the following that were definitely not possible on my Acuras:
1) Drive Recorder - with the Parking Assistance Package collection of cameras, will act as an OEM dashcam in case of incidents. I've also activated my cameras remotely via the app to "spy" on my car to see if the surroundings have changed for the worse, etc.
2) iDrive can give me current elevation, degree of roll and pitch for the car on the current grade, and other numbers that nerds will love. There's also a built-in stopwatch for lap times but I think Dragy is still the gold standard.
3) If I wanted to, I can simply use my iPhone as the car key or an Apple Watch (one or the other....not both).
4) Through the My BMW app, I can check if the doors, windows, hood, trunk, and sunroof are all locked. Acura may have been limited to doors at most.
What’s the real-world fuel econ? This is where Koreans are extremely weak.
Originally Posted by Tony Pac
Real world, I don't know. It's a heavy car i can say that! Very powerful when you push it. But you feel the weight and you feel that this isn't a sport sedan. G80 is a car to drive smooth 120KM/H and enjoy your music with 17 speakers. Luxury interior and super soundproof.
19/27 MPG and the AWD is 18/26 and real world mix seems to be about 20 MPG.
The new '24 Sonata, inside and out, looks incredibly nice, especially in the N-Line trim. Hopefully they made the ride not quite as "boy racer" stiff (N-Line). Quite a value proposition. Handsome (hate the current Sonata design), and $20k less while able to edge out a TLX-S from a roll.
The new '24 Sonata, inside and out, looks incredibly nice, especially in the N-Line trim. Hopefully they made the ride not quite as "boy racer" stiff (N-Line). Quite a value proposition. Handsome (hate the current Sonata design), and $20k less while able to edge out a TLX-S from a roll.
Hyundai still hasn’t gotten it right for me, it looks better but not as good as the TLX or even the new Lexus IS. Interior is pretty dope however I hate the infotainment and digital gauge screen combination. BMW is doing the same thing in their new models and I find it hideous
The new '24 Sonata, inside and out, looks incredibly nice, especially in the N-Line trim. Hopefully they made the ride not quite as "boy racer" stiff (N-Line). Quite a value proposition. Handsome (hate the current Sonata design), and $20k less while able to edge out a TLX-S from a roll.
More important than a new exterior is somehow not being one of the most easily stolen cars in America!
Hyundai still hasn’t gotten it right for me, it looks better but not as good as the TLX or even the new Lexus IS. Interior is pretty dope however I hate the infotainment and digital gauge screen combination. BMW is doing the same thing in their new models and I find it hideous
I see a lot of resemblances to BMW in the design. The "tacked on" giant screen sucks, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be the new norm. Cheap and easy ... a manufacturer's favorite words. Even the front end gives me 7-series vibes.
Originally Posted by ELIN
More important than a new exterior is somehow not being one of the most easily stolen cars in America!
I would hope they did something to help prevent this in the future. Thankfully, I live in an area where this and having muppets rummage thru my car at night isn't an issue. Then again, security measures don't mean jack when you have blithering idiots who leave their key fobs in their cars at all times. It's astounding how stupid some people are.
All this talk about Hyundai/Genesis is ignoring the elephant in the room: their service department is horrendous.
We have a 2021 Santa Fe Calligraphy. The technology is amazing, the interior design is extremely functional. But I literally need to call a month in advance to book a routine maintenance. If you have an emergency come up and need service right away, good luck, as many dealers will tell you they can’t even look at it for a week or two (and you won’t have a loaner during that time because they can’t confirm if it’s something covered under warranty).
I like our Santa Fe (aside from the recall for the DCT that can fail at any time, but Hyundai won’t preemptively replace them, and will only do so once your vehicle has left you stranded at the side of the road), but I would
not own two Hyundai/KIA/Genesis products at the same time, and depending on how the rest of this ownership experience pans out, it may be our last Hyundai product as well.
All this talk about Hyundai/Genesis is ignoring the elephant in the room: their service department is horrendous.
We have a 2021 Santa Fe Calligraphy. The technology is amazing, the interior design is extremely functional. But I literally need to call a month in advance to book a routine maintenance. If you have an emergency come up and need service right away, good luck, as many dealers will tell you they can’t even look at it for a week or two (and you won’t have a loaner during that time because they can’t confirm if it’s something covered under warranty).
I like our Santa Fe (aside from the recall for the DCT that can fail at any time, but Hyundai won’t preemptively replace them, and will only do so once your vehicle has left you stranded at the side of the road), but I would
not own two Hyundai/KIA/Genesis products at the same time, and depending on how the rest of this ownership experience pans out, it may be our last Hyundai product as well.
True. Genesis will get better as the stand alone facilities start to roll out, but most Hyundai and Kia stores do not have anywhere near enough service bays for the volume they're selling these days. The conventional wisdom with these brands for years was the buyers don't service at the dealer so you don't need to invest in service capacity.
True. Genesis will get better as the stand alone facilities start to roll out, but most Hyundai and Kia stores do not have anywhere near enough service bays for the volume they're selling these days. The conventional wisdom with these brands for years was the buyers don't service at the dealer so you don't need to invest in service capacity.
Genesis NEEDS standalone dealers, just like Acura/Lexus are separate from their mainstream brands. People spending that kind of money on a car expect a different level of service than someone buying a $20k car.
My local Hyundai dealer is also a Genesis dealer, and if I bought a Genesis, quite frankly I’d be pissed at the whole buying and service aspect of ownership.
It’s frustrating enough enough only having a Hyundai (granted, it wasn’t cheap at $42k), and wholely unacceptable for a luxury brand.
I also am not sold on their engineering yet, as there have been a number of major issues with Hyundai products recently. It’s one of the main reasons I didn’t seriously consider a Genesis when searching for my car.
There was a dealer that opened near me. They had a sign that said, "Genesis Dealer coming soon!" It definitely piqued my interest and made me think Genesis was finally doing things right. Well, passed by a few months later when it opened, and it was a full-fledged Hyundai dealership. LoL. I dunno what happened, but I guess Hyundai still isn't comfortable putting that much stock in their Genesis brand. Sort of a Catch 22. Hyundai doesn't think Genesis sells enough to warrant stand-alone dealers, but the people who might be interested in one likely aren't going to step foot into a Hyundai/Kia dealership.
People praise Hyundai/Genesis brand on the net a lot but they don't put their money where their mouth is. Their resale value is apsolutely horrendous and when they do these major changes in mid-cycle it even adds to the depreciation. Mind you, these changes they have done look apsolutely great and tbh that's how this car should have looked from the start. Current Sonata owners will take a pounding when the 24 drops.
Same thing happened with G70. The updated version looks like an all new car. Great for new buyers but leaves current owners in the dump. Is this how they plan to build customer loyalty? Germans and Japanese get criticized for their conservative approach but brand loyalty is there.
Seized engines, self-igniting vehicles and easy enough for a baby to steal don't help matters. I understand the big insurers are refusing to renew or issue policies for the H/K cars that were not manufactured with engine immobilizers. They have so many cars under recall/warranty right now, it may explain the problem getting a service appointment mentioned above.
People praise Hyundai/Genesis brand on the net a lot but they don't put their money where their mouth is. Their resale value is apsolutely horrendous and when they do these major changes in mid-cycle it even adds to the depreciation. Mind you, these changes they have done look apsolutely great and tbh that's how this car should have looked from the start. Current Sonata owners will take a pounding when the 24 drops.
Same thing happened with G70. The updated version looks like an all new car. Great for new buyers but leaves current owners in the dump. Is this how they plan to build customer loyalty? Germans and Japanese get criticized for their conservative approach but brand loyalty is there.
I am noticing one thing as you said, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and you name it, everyone is praising Korean products but unfortunately majority of these people aren’t writing the cheque to Koreans! We can sit and talk all day about how beautiful and nice the Genesis looks but at the end of the day, people have hesitation.
The family friend that I am helping literally got cold feet and postponed his decision. He was ready to write the cheque and get the car and now he is reconsidering his decision after some research he found out that the G80 will depreciate significantly more than Japanese and German cars. We are back to the drawing board!
Although I agree with all the negative things said about H/K, you can’t really say people aren’t buying them. If you look at Hyundai and Kia as the same brand (since most of their offerings are simply clones), their sales have grown to rival Honda. H/K has come a long way from being a dumpster fire brand … still problematic, but their value and offerings are obviously enough to get plenty of people interested.
Genesis is another issue entirely. People looking at premium or luxury are less apt to care about value and lean more towards prestige and pedigree of a brand, along with things like service & sales experience. All of which the Genesis brand lacks.
Although I agree with all the negative things said about H/K, you can’t really say people aren’t buying them. If you look at Hyundai and Kia as the same brand (since most of their offerings are simply clones), their sales have grown to rival Honda. H/K has come a long way from being a dumpster fire brand … still problematic, but their value and offerings are obviously enough to get plenty of people interested.
Genesis is another issue entirely. People looking at premium or luxury are less apt to care about value and lean more towards prestige and pedigree of a brand, along with things like service & sales experience. All of which the Genesis brand lacks.
very well said. However, based on used car market (3-4 year old). I am noticing a lot of K and H. That means people are leasing and returning them. I don’t see the same with Japanese.
Honestly, here in New Jersey you really dont see Genesis products on the roads anywhere near the frequency of current generation Acura, Lexus and Infiniti products. Quite frankly, I suspect most are like me: I appreciate what H/K/G products bring to the table reminding me a lot of the value proposition Honda/Acura used to bring to the table BUT, I'm just not feeling the brands and thus I'm not willing to make a financial commitment here. (Before H/K/G fanbois get lit, keep in mind that I feel the same way about Mazda and Audi as well, where I regard them as the nicest cars I can afford but I'll never own.)
But who knows, in my case maybe Genesis will make a breakthrough for me as Cadillac has with the CT4 V BW, which I've been eyeballing for the past few weeks. Admittedly, part of that has to do with Caddy styling which has the best bling factor in the segment, followed by the TLX.
The Cadillac Blackwings are amazing vehicles. Unlike a lot of previous Cadillac performance models, they seem to be holding their value pretty well in the first year or so. Prices on Autotrader are all in the 65-70K range for used CT4 Blackwings.
Last edited by JM2010 SH-AWD; 04-01-2023 at 09:40 AM.
Honestly, here in New Jersey you really dont see Genesis products on the roads anywhere near the frequency of current generation Acura, Lexus and Infiniti products. Quite frankly, I suspect most are like me: I appreciate what H/K/G products bring to the table reminding me a lot of the value proposition Honda/Acura used to bring to the table BUT, I'm just not feeling the brands and thus I'm not willing to make a financial commitment here. (Before H/K/G fanbois get lit, keep in mind that I feel the same way about Mazda and Audi as well, where I regard them as the nicest cars I can afford but I'll never own.)
But who knows, in my case maybe Genesis will make a breakthrough for me as Cadillact has with the CT4 V BW, which I've been eyeballing for the past few weeks. Admittedly, part of that has to do with Caddy styling which has the best bling factor in the segment, followed by the TLX.
$65k sheesh! For a gm product, I’ll say it’s beautiful and the CT5-V Black Wing has caught my eye a lot… but if I’m paying $100k on a GM product it’s model designation will say “Corvette” and nothing else.
$65k sheesh! For a gm product, I’ll say it’s beautiful and the CT5-V Black Wing has caught my eye a lot… but if I’m paying $100k on a GM product it’s model designation will say “Corvette” and nothing else.
That's not an insignificant point that you're making. I can see me at the Caddy sales desk ready to pull the trigger and then having that moment of sobriety when I realize that I could get an M340i xDrive for the same money as the CT4 V BW. (Granted, the G20 looks as plain as an FE Civic, especially when compared with the CT4 BUT, that B58/ZF8 tandem.... )
That's not an insignificant point that you're making. I can see me at the Caddy sales desk ready to pull the trigger and then having that moment of sobriety when I realize that I could get an M340i xDrive for the same money as the CT4 V BW. (Granted, the G20 looks as plain as an FE Civic, especially when compared with the CT4 BUT, that B58/ZF8 tandem.... )
You can make the M340 look as aggressive or as pedestrian as you want from the factory . I realize this is a common statement because most people who see them or buy them get a base 340. Enthusiasts will add the M performance parts to make the car look more aggressive.
Honestly, here in New Jersey you really dont see Genesis products on the roads anywhere near the frequency of current generation Acura, Lexus and Infiniti products. Quite frankly, I suspect most are like me: I appreciate what H/K/G products bring to the table reminding me a lot of the value proposition Honda/Acura used to bring to the table BUT, I'm just not feeling the brands and thus I'm not willing to make a financial commitment here. (Before H/K/G fanbois get lit, keep in mind that I feel the same way about Mazda and Audi as well, where I regard them as the nicest cars I can afford but I'll never own.)
But who knows, in my case maybe Genesis will make a breakthrough for me as Cadillac has with the CT4 V BW, which I've been eyeballing for the past few weeks. Admittedly, part of that has to do with Caddy styling which has the best bling factor in the segment, followed by the TLX.
I don’t think anyone underestimate the effort of H K and G. They have done a great job but the financial commitment as you said is a huge factor.
If you read the number of positive reviews and comments about G, and if that translate to actual buying. Genesis would be the number one luxury brand in terms of sales. But we all know that’s not the case. Praise, praise, and praise but buy Japanese or German 😂
This behaviour of those people in the market actually will hurt Genesis in the long term. It’s like your boss keep praising you and giving you credit. But he doesn’t raise your salary lmao! Genesis’ well wishers remind me of those bosses!
Honestly, here in New Jersey you really dont see Genesis products on the roads anywhere near the frequency of current generation Acura, Lexus and Infiniti products. Quite frankly, I suspect most are like me: I appreciate what H/K/G products bring to the table reminding me a lot of the value proposition Honda/Acura used to bring to the table BUT, I'm just not feeling the brands and thus I'm not willing to make a financial commitment here. (Before H/K/G fanbois get lit, keep in mind that I feel the same way about Mazda and Audi as well, where I regard them as the nicest cars I can afford but I'll never own.)
But who knows, in my case maybe Genesis will make a breakthrough for me as Cadillac has with the CT4 V BW, which I've been eyeballing for the past few weeks. Admittedly, part of that has to do with Caddy styling which has the best bling factor in the segment, followed by the TLX.
Those CT4V BW are the real deal for enthusiasts and top performer in this segment. Plus the fact that they come in manual just to sweeten the deal. 👌
Speaking of H/K. A Kia Stinger kept taunting me for a race the other day coincidentally. Last time a car tried taunting me was a nice mustang GT with dark tints…that was UC and pulled someone over further down the road. 😎
One look at this photo and you'll see why I choose Acura instead of the competition. I don't care that a Stinger, G70, S4 or M340i is a few tenths faster than my TLX type s. I'm happy to trade that tiny difference to be able to turn a lot more heads AND have superior reliability.
One look at this photo and you'll see why I choose Acura instead of the competition. I don't care that a Stinger, G70, S4 or M340i is a few tenths faster than my TLX type s. I'm happy to trade that tiny difference to be able to turn a lot more heads AND have superior reliability.
wow! Beautiful cars!
You picked the best cars out there. That TYPE S is better than any car out there. Simply, the best of the best. No Audi or BMW can even come close to it. It looks much more expensive and high-end car compared to the competitors. Congratulations! Enjoy!
03-20-2023, 12:21 PM
That's not an insignificant point that you're making. I can see me at the Caddy sales desk ready to pull the trigger and then having that moment of sobriety when I realize that I could get an M340i xDrive for the same money as the CT4 V BW. (Granted, the G20 looks as plain as an FE Civic, especially when compared with the CT4 BUT, that B58/ZF8 tandem.... 
)
