The Ultimate Cooling Mod
06-16-2010, 07:08 PM
#282
Team Owner
I got a new toy to take temps of my UCM.
Fluke 62 Mini Infrared Thermometer (click here)
I had the thermometer for a few months. So, I was able to get some temps of the UCM in cooler months and now these hotter days of early summer.
Consistently, my intake manifold is always approx 20* F hotter than the weather temps.
When the weather was 60* F, the manifold was 80*.
When the weather was 80* F, the manifold was 100*.
Today, the weather was 97* F.
My MID showed 98*. My wife’s car said 97*.
So, the intake manifold should be 118*. Let’s check…….
The sidewalk in the shade reads 103*.
The wood fence below
Shows a reading of 118*
And the intake manifold is reading
An average of 119*
This was taken immediately after I got home from my daily commute, which is a 45-60 minute commute of mixed city/hwy. These temps (119*) is representative of most things under the hood that are not in direct contact with the engine/trans cases.
Stay cool
Fluke 62 Mini Infrared Thermometer (click here)
I had the thermometer for a few months. So, I was able to get some temps of the UCM in cooler months and now these hotter days of early summer.
Consistently, my intake manifold is always approx 20* F hotter than the weather temps.
When the weather was 60* F, the manifold was 80*.
When the weather was 80* F, the manifold was 100*.
Today, the weather was 97* F.
My MID showed 98*. My wife’s car said 97*.
So, the intake manifold should be 118*. Let’s check…….
The sidewalk in the shade reads 103*.
The wood fence below
Shows a reading of 118*
And the intake manifold is reading
An average of 119*
This was taken immediately after I got home from my daily commute, which is a 45-60 minute commute of mixed city/hwy. These temps (119*) is representative of most things under the hood that are not in direct contact with the engine/trans cases.
Stay cool
Brake booster: 145F
Strut Bar 160
Plenum 148
TB 135
I should've gotten some extra data points. The fact that the brake booster was cooler than the strut bar surprised me. I know there's very, very little flow of vacuum through the booster and even then it's likely to be at least the 135 degrees of the TB.
06-16-2010, 10:45 PM
#284
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks IHC
Conclusion
Stock
148* Plenum
86* Weather
--------------
62* Hotter than weather temp
UCM
119* Plenum
98* Weather
--------------
21* Hotter than weather temp
To put this in perspective, look at it this way. On a 90* day, the UCM engine bay is like a stock TL in 49* weather.
Conclusion
Stock
148* Plenum
86* Weather
--------------
62* Hotter than weather temp
UCM
119* Plenum
98* Weather
--------------
21* Hotter than weather temp
To put this in perspective, look at it this way. On a 90* day, the UCM engine bay is like a stock TL in 49* weather.
06-17-2010, 12:04 AM
#286
Team Owner
06-22-2010, 08:31 PM
#288
Lose the fresh air intake for the climate control. I never use this feature. I always have my system on the recirculation. This feature would still be lost with a hacked cowl because there would be hot air from the engine compartment passing over the fresh air intake.
06-22-2010, 08:54 PM
#289
Team Owner
One other thing, and it might have been brought up earlier, but most cars on recirc still bring in a little fresh air to the cabin. I did something similar on my other car to help cool it and to relieve pressure at very high speeds but I left a strip near the cabin air intake. Maybe there's a way to box it in so that it's still functional?
06-22-2010, 11:19 PM
#290
You could box it in, but you would have to drill holes or cut a section of the cowl out and maybe put in some mesh near the air intake as there is no area there to draw in air. The problem with that which i think is why Honda did not put a mesh area there in the first place is you may have a potential for water to somehow get into the air intake. I doubt it would happen but its possible. The way i am about to do it will prevent the need to do that. It will be the UCM without sacrificing the fresh air mode on A/C. Its really hard to explain how so i will just have to post pics when i am done.
06-23-2010, 06:49 AM
#291
Safety Car
Thread Starter
You could box it in, but you would have to drill holes or cut a section of the cowl out and maybe put in some mesh near the air intake as there is no area there to draw in air. The problem with that which i think is why Honda did not put a mesh area there in the first place is you may have a potential for water to somehow get into the air intake. I doubt it would happen but its possible.
I agree with this assessment.
Disbe - Thank you for the contributions.
06-23-2010, 02:59 PM
#292
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for my IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from this morning.
As the data logging begins, the is engine is cold. The weather temp was 76* F.
The first thing that I questioned when I starting logging any IAT readings is if the IAT sensor is accurate. Over night, I left my hood open in the garage. This morning, I used my infrared gun to take the temp of the manifold surrounding the IAT sensor. The infrared temp reading was 89.5* F. Upon starting the engine and the logging session, the ecu reported that the IAT was 90* F. So, the IAT sensor appears to be accurate.
Although the logging session shows an initial IAT temp of 90* F and the weather temp was 76* F, this is accurate. The 90* is from the residual heat in the engine from yesterday evening commute home.
The ambient temperature abruptly jumps from 76* F to 82* F. This is not a gradual warming up. I was surprised by this too. The 76* F is on a country road surrounded by open grass fields. The 82* F is on a very huge freeway surrounded with traffic and city buildings.
As this data logging reveals, my IAT are approximately 9* F higher than ambient while moving.
Showing math work -
85* - 76* = 9*
91* - 82* = 9*
Compare this to the temps that Opel sees with his supercharger. Opel stated that his IAT would reach 150-165 while sitting and will not drop once moving again. (click here for source)
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for the IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from yesterday evening.
Speed ranged from approximately 4 mph to 12 mph...... for a whole hour. During this time of stop-n-go, the IAT sensor registered mainly between 109* F to 115*F. This is 24* F and 30* F higher than ambient, respectively.
Once my speed reached 60 mph, the IAT dropped to 93*, which is 8* F higher than ambient. I estimate that if I had been able to hit 60 mph immediately after the stop-n-go, that the IAT temp would had dropped from 115* to 93* within 5 or 6 minutes.
Above is the data logging for my IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from this morning.
As the data logging begins, the is engine is cold. The weather temp was 76* F.
The first thing that I questioned when I starting logging any IAT readings is if the IAT sensor is accurate. Over night, I left my hood open in the garage. This morning, I used my infrared gun to take the temp of the manifold surrounding the IAT sensor. The infrared temp reading was 89.5* F. Upon starting the engine and the logging session, the ecu reported that the IAT was 90* F. So, the IAT sensor appears to be accurate.
Although the logging session shows an initial IAT temp of 90* F and the weather temp was 76* F, this is accurate. The 90* is from the residual heat in the engine from yesterday evening commute home.
The ambient temperature abruptly jumps from 76* F to 82* F. This is not a gradual warming up. I was surprised by this too. The 76* F is on a country road surrounded by open grass fields. The 82* F is on a very huge freeway surrounded with traffic and city buildings.
As this data logging reveals, my IAT are approximately 9* F higher than ambient while moving.
Showing math work -
85* - 76* = 9*
91* - 82* = 9*
Compare this to the temps that Opel sees with his supercharger. Opel stated that his IAT would reach 150-165 while sitting and will not drop once moving again. (click here for source)
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for the IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from yesterday evening.
Speed ranged from approximately 4 mph to 12 mph...... for a whole hour. During this time of stop-n-go, the IAT sensor registered mainly between 109* F to 115*F. This is 24* F and 30* F higher than ambient, respectively.
Once my speed reached 60 mph, the IAT dropped to 93*, which is 8* F higher than ambient. I estimate that if I had been able to hit 60 mph immediately after the stop-n-go, that the IAT temp would had dropped from 115* to 93* within 5 or 6 minutes.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 06-23-2010 at 03:03 PM.
06-24-2010, 08:39 PM
#293
So what you are saying is that with the UCM, you are getting cooler air into the intake. And as we know, cooler air is more dense.
Yea baby!
By the way, as i am modding my plastic cowls, they are completely removed. 2 days before i removed them i did a complete Seafoam job. I do not know if it is 1 or the other or a combination of the 2, but i have all the pep back in my step even as it was in the high 90's yesterday and mid 90's today. Thats all the proof i need!
Yea baby!
By the way, as i am modding my plastic cowls, they are completely removed. 2 days before i removed them i did a complete Seafoam job. I do not know if it is 1 or the other or a combination of the 2, but i have all the pep back in my step even as it was in the high 90's yesterday and mid 90's today. Thats all the proof i need!
06-24-2010, 10:08 PM
#294
Team Owner
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for my IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from this morning.
As the data logging begins, the is engine is cold. The weather temp was 76* F.
The first thing that I questioned when I starting logging any IAT readings is if the IAT sensor is accurate. Over night, I left my hood open in the garage. This morning, I used my infrared gun to take the temp of the manifold surrounding the IAT sensor. The infrared temp reading was 89.5* F. Upon starting the engine and the logging session, the ecu reported that the IAT was 90* F. So, the IAT sensor appears to be accurate.
Although the logging session shows an initial IAT temp of 90* F and the weather temp was 76* F, this is accurate. The 90* is from the residual heat in the engine from yesterday evening commute home.
The ambient temperature abruptly jumps from 76* F to 82* F. This is not a gradual warming up. I was surprised by this too. The 76* F is on a country road surrounded by open grass fields. The 82* F is on a very huge freeway surrounded with traffic and city buildings.
As this data logging reveals, my IAT are approximately 9* F higher than ambient while moving.
Showing math work -
85* - 76* = 9*
91* - 82* = 9*
Compare this to the temps that Opel sees with his supercharger. Opel stated that his IAT would reach 150-165 while sitting and will not drop once moving again. (click here for source)
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for the IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from yesterday evening.
Speed ranged from approximately 4 mph to 12 mph...... for a whole hour. During this time of stop-n-go, the IAT sensor registered mainly between 109* F to 115*F. This is 24* F and 30* F higher than ambient, respectively.
Once my speed reached 60 mph, the IAT dropped to 93*, which is 8* F higher than ambient. I estimate that if I had been able to hit 60 mph immediately after the stop-n-go, that the IAT temp would had dropped from 115* to 93* within 5 or 6 minutes.
Above is the data logging for my IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from this morning.
As the data logging begins, the is engine is cold. The weather temp was 76* F.
The first thing that I questioned when I starting logging any IAT readings is if the IAT sensor is accurate. Over night, I left my hood open in the garage. This morning, I used my infrared gun to take the temp of the manifold surrounding the IAT sensor. The infrared temp reading was 89.5* F. Upon starting the engine and the logging session, the ecu reported that the IAT was 90* F. So, the IAT sensor appears to be accurate.
Although the logging session shows an initial IAT temp of 90* F and the weather temp was 76* F, this is accurate. The 90* is from the residual heat in the engine from yesterday evening commute home.
The ambient temperature abruptly jumps from 76* F to 82* F. This is not a gradual warming up. I was surprised by this too. The 76* F is on a country road surrounded by open grass fields. The 82* F is on a very huge freeway surrounded with traffic and city buildings.
As this data logging reveals, my IAT are approximately 9* F higher than ambient while moving.
Showing math work -
85* - 76* = 9*
91* - 82* = 9*
Compare this to the temps that Opel sees with his supercharger. Opel stated that his IAT would reach 150-165 while sitting and will not drop once moving again. (click here for source)
Click pic to see larger size.
Above is the data logging for the IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) from yesterday evening.
Speed ranged from approximately 4 mph to 12 mph...... for a whole hour. During this time of stop-n-go, the IAT sensor registered mainly between 109* F to 115*F. This is 24* F and 30* F higher than ambient, respectively.
Once my speed reached 60 mph, the IAT dropped to 93*, which is 8* F higher than ambient. I estimate that if I had been able to hit 60 mph immediately after the stop-n-go, that the IAT temp would had dropped from 115* to 93* within 5 or 6 minutes.
Please refresh my memory, your IAT is in the stock location and you do or don't have a CAI?
What relationship have you seen between the ignition timing and IAT? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth me trying to fool the ECU into retarding timing slightly by moving the sensor to a hotter location.
06-25-2010, 08:43 AM
#295
Safety Car
Thread Starter
The IAT Sensor is in the OEM location. Later, I do plan to relocate the IAT Sensor however. I do have a CAI, which is insulated. Plus many other cooling mods which are linked below.
Custom insulated AEM CAI (click here)
Outlaw Engineering Thermoblock Spacer (between runners and manifold) (click here)
Throttle body coolant bypass (click here)
Ultimate Cooling Mod (no click, you are there already)
Also, my IAT's stay in a fairly narrow operating range, which is approx 10* F above ambient. So, it is difficult for me to see any correlations of how the timing changes as a function of the IAT.
For my comparisons during R&D, I look to see what the timing is only under wot conditions. Even then, the timing varies with the RPM. But under heavy throttle, the timing is consistent and not wildly functioning. So, I can pick a numeric value for the timing only under wot (or, approx >60% Absolute Throttle Position) and as a function of RPM.
I have given up on trying to use data logging to quantify drivability, or even acceleration rates, under light throttle conditions. For the same reasons, it is too difficult to reliably pick numeric values (timing, acceleration rates) under light throttle. The best way by far, in my opinion and experiences, is to just experience and evaluate the drivability as I am driving under light throttle. For me, I can easily spot changes in drivability under light throttle than looking for it in the data logging.
But please don't misunderstand. The data logging is a great (invaluable) tool for quantifying performance under heavy throttle. Just not under light throttle.
Soon, I will be moving the IAT Sensor to the front lower grille. So, I probably will not have any insight into how elevated IAT temps affect the timing.
06-25-2010, 10:49 AM
#296
Team Owner
Thank you. That makes it even more interesting with the CAI. It answers a question I've had for a long time. I've always wondered in a cramped engine bay like the TL's, how much heat is transferred to the intake charge via conduction. The only thing I have to wonder still is if the sensor is picking up some of the intake manifold's heat from the threads on the body of the sensor.
It's nice knowing the computer is constantly optimizing timing for the best mpg and power at part throttle. I remember on my old data logs if I didn't set the buffer to something readable, the numbers were literally a blur.
It's nice knowing the computer is constantly optimizing timing for the best mpg and power at part throttle. I remember on my old data logs if I didn't set the buffer to something readable, the numbers were literally a blur.
06-25-2010, 02:46 PM
#297
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Is the IAT sensor recording just the incoming air? Or, is the sensor recording how cool the incoming air is able to keep the sensor cool from heat migrating into the sensor from the manifold that the sensor is screwed into? I have always firmly believed, and still do firmly believe, that the sensor is influenced by heat which migrates into the probe from the manifold.
Slightly different topic - Below shows how quick I can make the IAT drop down. Below is an instance were I was able to quickly get up to speed after sitting in traffic. After sitting idle for 4 minutes, the IAT hit 117* F. Within approx 1-1/2 minutes at normal speeds, the IAT dropped back to normal, which is usually approx 10* F above ambient.
Click pic to see larger size.
06-30-2010, 06:52 PM
#298
I am fully UCMed. I took the easy route and had someone else pull the wipers for me.
I will try to get some temp reading to compare to pre UCM readings.
The car does look ugly standing next to it but the cooling effect far out weighs the lack of cosmetic appeal. I'm still trying to figure out how I want to seal up the fresh air intake. Tape for now but I will trace it and see if Tap plastics can help me with a more durable solution.
I will try to get some temp reading to compare to pre UCM readings.
The car does look ugly standing next to it but the cooling effect far out weighs the lack of cosmetic appeal. I'm still trying to figure out how I want to seal up the fresh air intake. Tape for now but I will trace it and see if Tap plastics can help me with a more durable solution.
07-01-2010, 01:26 PM
#299
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Hi Speed, "Way to go" 
Don't worry too much about the unsightliness. Give it a few months and you won't even notice it anymore. I felt the same way at first. Now, I don't even notice the ugliness (seriously). But, the pull when I barely touch the pedal never goes unnoticed (seriously).
At first, I felt like you do about making a nice fiberglass or CF cover for the vent opening. That feeling too wore-away. I just taped over it with some thick aluminum tape. The aluminum tape has held-up great. I recommend trying the aluminum tape route until (or if) you get the nicer cover created.
The aluminum tape is purchased at Lowe's or Home Depot. It is in the Heating/Air conditioning section. Cut enough length to form a 1 inch overhang around the opening. Gentle push the overhang over the edges. Use a razor cutter to trim it closer to the edge of the opening as shown in the pics.
You be cool now dude. And for the being the first person to do a full-blown UCM.... This one is for you Hi Speed !
Don't worry too much about the unsightliness. Give it a few months and you won't even notice it anymore. I felt the same way at first. Now, I don't even notice the ugliness (seriously). But, the pull when I barely touch the pedal never goes unnoticed (seriously).
At first, I felt like you do about making a nice fiberglass or CF cover for the vent opening. That feeling too wore-away. I just taped over it with some thick aluminum tape. The aluminum tape has held-up great. I recommend trying the aluminum tape route until (or if) you get the nicer cover created.
The aluminum tape is purchased at Lowe's or Home Depot. It is in the Heating/Air conditioning section. Cut enough length to form a 1 inch overhang around the opening. Gentle push the overhang over the edges. Use a razor cutter to trim it closer to the edge of the opening as shown in the pics.
You be cool now dude. And for the being the first person to do a full-blown UCM.... This one is for you Hi Speed !
07-01-2010, 02:49 PM
#300
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
iTrader: (10)
Innacurate. I dont know which style of the UCM ima do yet but can you can take a picture of the pieces that people are cutting out at the bottom of the cowl that exposes the cabin filter since you still have one full intact. i dont know what it looks like from the bottom yet and i just wanted to see before i remove anything. Def not hardcore enough for the UCM. but i'd try the other styles. That exposed lower windshiel is a little too much for me lol
07-01-2010, 11:20 PM
#305
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Yes. This cutting in one of the most important. This is the only primary route for the air to exit.
With the way people have been doing the UCM with the cowling still present, the air exits in two steps.
First step is for the air to enter into the Grand Canyon via the cutting in the above pic, highlighted with red box outline.
Second step is for the air to travel from the Grand Canyon to the outside. This steps is executed with cutting in this area shown in pic below.
With the way people have been doing the UCM with the cowling still present, the air exits in two steps.
First step is for the air to enter into the Grand Canyon via the cutting in the above pic, highlighted with red box outline.
Second step is for the air to travel from the Grand Canyon to the outside. This steps is executed with cutting in this area shown in pic below.
07-03-2010, 02:26 PM
#306
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
iTrader: (10)
Took everything off (Full UCM). i am gonna start taking temp readings and see what happens. NYC stop and go really really sucks so we feel it over here. Removal took approx 5 minutes to do. i already took readings earlier and without the UCM the rear part of the IM was 144 lower was 156. After a 4 minute drive (highway) 122 rear 116 front, 88 outside. One thing i noticed was the IM "view port" on the front was 156 and the rear 133. ima get the p2r IM thermo spacer for that. The TB was 126. the CAI pipe, top side 101, side near fender 130. I have an OBD2 reader that i can use an a data logger so i will also start doing that. Innacurate- Thanks for the "PUSH" so start doing all this.
07-04-2010, 08:02 AM
#307
I finished forming and installing my variant of the UCM but ran into a problem. My wiper motors appear to have died. I'm about to check through the related fuses to see if that's the issue but I think its unlikely since my side mirrors have full functionality. I'll upload pics of my mod soon.
07-04-2010, 07:06 PM
#308
Safety Car
Thread Starter
This thread would lose a lot of its meaning without the pics. So, I will copy and host (at my hosting service) a duplicate set of the pics in this thread.
In this way, this thread can be more meaningful for a longer period of time with the backup set of pics. I hate it when I find an interesting forum thread that is several years old, and the pics are no longer available like this
In this way, this thread can be more meaningful for a longer period of time with the backup set of pics. I hate it when I find an interesting forum thread that is several years old, and the pics are no longer available like this
07-05-2010, 02:43 PM
#318
Safety Car
Thread Starter
The following is not high tech, but has worked wonderfully for me in the past for similar type of cutting.
Make sure that the lady of the kitchen is elsewhere. In the kitchen drawer, find an old butter knife. Find one that is preferably all metal with a metal handle.
Go outside and fire-up the propane grill, or other source of an open flame. Place the blade of the butter knife into the open flame. Allow the blade to get moderately hot.
Push the hot blade thru the plastic, and then push the blade along the length to be cut. I am usually able to cut 3 or 4 inches at a time before needing to heat the blade again. Just put the blade over the open flame again for about 20 seconds and then cut another few inches.
The butter knife is not really “cutting” the plastic. The blade is melting it’s way thru the material. This has always worked great for me. It cuts the plastic “like a hot knife through butter.”
Safety –
1) Do not breath the smoke coming from the workpiece being melted.
2) Do not do this indoors. The smell from the burnt plastic is strong and will linger indoors.
3) Never, ever allow the lady-of-the-house to see that particular butter knife again. Hide it somewhere in the garage.
Make sure that the lady of the kitchen is elsewhere. In the kitchen drawer, find an old butter knife. Find one that is preferably all metal with a metal handle.
Go outside and fire-up the propane grill, or other source of an open flame. Place the blade of the butter knife into the open flame. Allow the blade to get moderately hot.
Push the hot blade thru the plastic, and then push the blade along the length to be cut. I am usually able to cut 3 or 4 inches at a time before needing to heat the blade again. Just put the blade over the open flame again for about 20 seconds and then cut another few inches.
The butter knife is not really “cutting” the plastic. The blade is melting it’s way thru the material. This has always worked great for me. It cuts the plastic “like a hot knife through butter.”
Safety –
1) Do not breath the smoke coming from the workpiece being melted.
2) Do not do this indoors. The smell from the burnt plastic is strong and will linger indoors.
3) Never, ever allow the lady-of-the-house to see that particular butter knife again. Hide it somewhere in the garage.
07-06-2010, 07:54 PM
#319
Burning Brakes
How does drilling holes in the wiper cowling work for ppl who live in canada where snow ice slush build up in there?
Also what about the 2 lower grille air diverters, removing must it must cause problems?
Also what about the 2 lower grille air diverters, removing must it must cause problems?
07-06-2010, 08:28 PM
#320
Three Wheelin'
I would think that is not a concern to Inaccurate as he started this thread and is from Houston, Texas. You are from Canada where it is cooler and this mod isn't needed in the first place, right?