The Ultimate Cooling Mod
08-17-2009, 01:28 PM
#122
Safety Car
Thread Starter
This is not the only drain holes (one per side) as I had originally thought. To test, I placed tape over this hole to block it. As quickly as I could, I poured a gallon of water from a pail into the gutter. The water rushed to the ground as fast I dumped it in. So, the gutter is able to drain water at a flow rate of at least one gallon per second (massive) per side. Obviously, there is a large crevice within the gutter/fender mating area.
I am no longer worried that a few leaves will plug-up the drain holes.
As suggested by "FlacoJ", a wire mesh over the gutter would help appearance and to prevent leaves from possibly plugging the drain. A course mesh, not a fine mesh, would need to be used. If the mesh was too fine, the water would flow across (as opposed to flow into) the fine mesh and enter the engine bay.
08-20-2009, 11:59 AM
#124
Team Owner
LOL. You joke but I've seen some ricers in a civic with a CAI pipe routed through the passenger window with an airfilter on the end. I guess they've never heard an intake backfire. Certain to cause temporary hearing loss.
08-20-2009, 01:16 PM
#126
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Better than that....just run a duct tube from the primary A/C discharge and feed the A/C output (duct tube) directly into the CAI pipe opening.
Anyone know the CFM rating of our HVAC ?
NOTE - This reply is meant as 100% joking.
Anyone know the CFM rating of our HVAC ?
NOTE - This reply is meant as 100% joking.
08-20-2009, 02:43 PM
#128
Team Owner
We used to have a kit that submersed the stock intercooler in water that was constantly cooled using the AC compressor. It never caught on.
I would be willing to be the HVAC flows a good 200CFM. I doubt it would make up for the compressor drag.
I would be willing to be the HVAC flows a good 200CFM. I doubt it would make up for the compressor drag.
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
#129
Racer
I have a short ram intake and no front lip, I’m thinking of fabbing up an under car spoiler from aluminum flashing, to scavenge the air from under the car and force it into the engine bay and the short ram intake with removed resonator. This should provide more high speed stability because air will not have as much pressure under the car, and it will force air into the engine bay, but i wonder if the drag coefficient out weighs the benefits, the reason why it might be worse than a front lip is because it traps the air against the engine and firewall with no where to really go causing more drag than a lip attached to the front bumper any input? On whether this cooling mod would be useful or just a debris catching shovel, I wasn’t going to make it hang any lower than my Cusco tie bar, suggestions, Constructive criticism, or plain ol complaining is welcome
08-20-2009, 03:41 PM
#130
Safety Car
Thread Starter
From what you describe, I don't think drag would be an issue. I doubt that you do too much 120+ mph driving. Drag is more of an issue as speeds get up in that range.
The scoop would probably induce some helpful air circulation to help remove some of that hot air. Doubt the circulation would reach into the upper parts of the compartment. Doubt that the volume of fresh air would be enough to help. Plus as you mention, there is still no exit.
I would say it is worth a try. The benefits will not be nowhere near to the benefits of The Ultimate Cooling Mod (UCM)..... but, I can see some small benefit from the scoop.
The scoop would probably induce some helpful air circulation to help remove some of that hot air. Doubt the circulation would reach into the upper parts of the compartment. Doubt that the volume of fresh air would be enough to help. Plus as you mention, there is still no exit.
I would say it is worth a try. The benefits will not be nowhere near to the benefits of The Ultimate Cooling Mod (UCM)..... but, I can see some small benefit from the scoop.
08-20-2009, 10:33 PM
#132
Safety Car
Thread Starter
The hack of the oem plastic cowl is looking like a no-go. The cowl is designed to really hug the hood. If the plastic was cut to open up the gap, there is little remaining of the original cowl. If we attempt to leave sufficient parts of the cowl in place, the gap is too small to be effective as an "ultimate cooling mod".
08-21-2009, 12:52 AM
#133
Three Wheelin'
2 square holes on the hood, 2 scoops, call it a day
if u look underneath the hood, you will see where im talking about, the center squares which are surrounded by the hoods framing.
i dont have heatsoaking issues, with 9.7:1 compression
with the AC runing, in 90+ heat, full of humidity, it pulls off idle as if it was at 2500 rpm
if u look underneath the hood, you will see where im talking about, the center squares which are surrounded by the hoods framing.
i dont have heatsoaking issues, with 9.7:1 compression
with the AC runing, in 90+ heat, full of humidity, it pulls off idle as if it was at 2500 rpm
08-21-2009, 06:59 AM
#134
Safety Car
Thread Starter
08-21-2009, 09:44 AM
#136
Ryan Christopher
As for ours, there are a few possibilities if you wanted to do this.
08-21-2009, 09:53 AM
#137
Three Wheelin'
^^^^^^i know there is...im close to hacking away....Innaccurate stopped me when i mentioned this, before he started the thread lol he said i have something better for you, so i says ok, and put my sawzall down lol
08-21-2009, 02:27 PM
#138
Three Wheelin'
what are the consequences by removing the cowl completely ?? besides that its gonna look ugly and no more spray nozzles. Can it be driven in rain safely ??
08-21-2009, 03:00 PM
#139
Drifting
iTrader: (13)
The hack of the oem plastic cowl is looking like a no-go. The cowl is designed to really hug the hood. If the plastic was cut to open up the gap, there is little remaining of the original cowl. If we attempt to leave sufficient parts of the cowl in place, the gap is too small to be effective as an "ultimate cooling mod".
I just do not have the cojones to take a saw to my hood.
08-21-2009, 03:25 PM
#140
Three Wheelin'
08-21-2009, 03:53 PM
#141
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Just to clarify -
The Ultimate Cooling Mod does NOT involve cutting the hood !!!
Please read the opening post (Post #1) for details.
The pics above of the cut hood was just us discussing what some other folks have done on other forums.
The Ultimate Cooling Mod does NOT involve cutting the hood !!!
Please read the opening post (Post #1) for details.
The pics above of the cut hood was just us discussing what some other folks have done on other forums.
08-21-2009, 04:03 PM
#142
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by dwb993
Isn't any gap better than no gap at all?
Originally Posted by dwb993
I just do not have the cojones to take a saw to my hood.
08-21-2009, 07:29 PM
#144
this has been around for a while. Didnt know the tl had that type of problem semi factory... If you wanted to keep the cowl but raise the latches on the hood a half inch it will not look as ugly but create a smoother transition and the gap wont be 3 inches by no means but it will help.
just another idea
just another idea
08-21-2009, 09:18 PM
#145
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Opel,
LOL. Sorry, that comment was not directed at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
People like to speed-read and/or read just the most recent page. People are already jumping to the conclusion that this UCM involves a cut hood. So, I made the bold, bright-colored text to catch the attention of these speed-readers.
BTW - did you really perform the swiss cheese mod? If so, got any pics.
LOL. Sorry, that comment was not directed at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
People like to speed-read and/or read just the most recent page. People are already jumping to the conclusion that this UCM involves a cut hood. So, I made the bold, bright-colored text to catch the attention of these speed-readers.
BTW - did you really perform the swiss cheese mod? If so, got any pics.
08-21-2009, 10:44 PM
#146
Three Wheelin'
Those s2000 hoods look pretty good! Even if it is effective, I'm not too sure it would look as good on a TL due to the way beams are sectioned from underneath...
Guess there's only one way to know for sure!
Guess there's only one way to know for sure!
08-21-2009, 11:04 PM
#147
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Here is some reading for anyone interested in the Hood Spacers.
(Please remember that the Ultimate Cooling Mod has a much, much bigger gap than these hood spacers)
NEW: 06+ Civic CorSport Aluminum Hood Spacer Bushings (click here)
DIY - Installing Corsport Hood Spacers (click here)
DIY: $3.57 Hood Spacers (click here)
hood spacers or no hood spacers? (click here)
hood spacers. let me know what you think (click here)
08-22-2009, 01:30 PM
#148
Drifting
iTrader: (13)
Just to clarify, I have been reading the whole thread very carefully.
The hood mods look great on the S2K, but I just don't think that is the right way to go for me.
The cowl, on the other hand, would be the way to go, both to maintain the stock appearance and functionality of the washer jets. Just looking for some more data on temperature reduction without removing the whole thing.
I will stay tuned to this thread. Thanks for your efforts and sharing your results.
The hood mods look great on the S2K, but I just don't think that is the right way to go for me.
The cowl, on the other hand, would be the way to go, both to maintain the stock appearance and functionality of the washer jets. Just looking for some more data on temperature reduction without removing the whole thing.
I will stay tuned to this thread. Thanks for your efforts and sharing your results.
08-24-2009, 12:10 AM
#149
Three Wheelin'
Opel,
LOL. Sorry, that comment was not directed at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
People like to speed-read and/or read just the most recent page. People are already jumping to the conclusion that this UCM involves a cut hood. So, I made the bold, bright-colored text to catch the attention of these speed-readers.
BTW - did you really perform the swiss cheese mod? If so, got any pics.
LOL. Sorry, that comment was not directed at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
People like to speed-read and/or read just the most recent page. People are already jumping to the conclusion that this UCM involves a cut hood. So, I made the bold, bright-colored text to catch the attention of these speed-readers.
BTW - did you really perform the swiss cheese mod? If so, got any pics.
i knew where it came from...sorry im confusing ur fans lol... i haven't made the swiss cheese mod yet...right now im still toasting the bread lol
08-24-2009, 06:49 AM
#150
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Fans???? Haha..... not very supportive fans. No one has even stepped-up to do this mod. I had a PM from someone that said that they did the UCM mod. I asked that person to please post an opinion (good or bad) on how well the UCM worked for him. Still waiting...
But, yes I have "fans"..... Fans of "Shock and awe"
My fans faithfully read my threads because they are guaranteed to receive "shock and awe".
But, yes I have "fans"..... Fans of "Shock and awe"
My fans faithfully read my threads because they are guaranteed to receive "shock and awe".
08-24-2009, 09:14 AM
#151
Team Owner
Fans???? Haha..... not very supportive fans. No one has even stepped-up to do this mod. I had a PM from someone that said that they did the UCM mod. I asked that person to please post an opinion (good or bad) on how well the UCM worked for him. Still waiting...
But, yes I have "fans"..... Fans of "Shock and awe"
My fans faithfully read my threads because they are guaranteed to receive "shock and awe".
But, yes I have "fans"..... Fans of "Shock and awe"
My fans faithfully read my threads because they are guaranteed to receive "shock and awe".
08-24-2009, 09:35 AM
#152
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Ok, so I do have *one* fan.
IHC - Seriously, I am happy to see that Acurazine has returned something to you in return for all of your time that you contribute to us.
IHC - Seriously, I am happy to see that Acurazine has returned something to you in return for all of your time that you contribute to us.
08-24-2009, 11:00 AM
#153
Safety Car
Thread Starter
* No windshield washer.
* No fresh air option for your climate control (Recirculate only...or windows slightly lowered).
* Unattractive appearance when standing beside the car. However, it is not visible to other drivers on the road.
* Small risk of water entering thru the fresh-air inlet if not adequately sealed closed.
Since having the UCM, I have driven thru several heavy rain storms. The heaviest was thru 10 miles of very heavy rain. On the freeway, all traffic was doing 40 mph with wipers on "high". This was a non-stop intense downpour for 10 miles.
There has been no problems with the removed cowl. The engine compartment was completely dry after each episode. I did see a few drops of water sitting on top of the tape (red arrow in pic below). This means that the water, to some extent (?), could be blown/splattered into the exposed opening. Be sure to close-off this opening (red dashed line in pic below). I currently have just tape covering the opening. I plan to make a lid (cut to fit from some material?), paint it flat black, and affix the lid with sealant over this opening.
The UCM's ugliness is not too noticeable with the hood closed. Someone needs to be standing right next to the windshield to see it. The wipers camouflage the opening too.
08-28-2009, 06:59 PM
#154
Cruisin'
Join Date: Aug 2009
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No matter what fancy steps you take reduce heat soak and loss of power in hot summer temps, the TRUE underlying reason why power diminishes in the warmer temps is a thing called density altitude or DA. In a nutshell, hot air is less dense than cold air. The more humid the air, the less available O2. The lower the barometric pressure, the less o2 that naturally gets pushed into the motor. On a humid (50%) 90 degree day in Kansas City (1100' above sea level) with 29.9 baro pressure (typical), the density altitude conditions are in the 4000' range or essentially sucking out about 10% of the available power compared to "standard conditions" at sea level. On a dry (30% humidity) and cold (40 degree) day, the DA is right around sea conditions (ie negating the true elevation of Kansas City).
DA is out of your control. You can wrap your intake pipes, add silly plastic spacers to your intake manifolds, ice the intake manifold, but the reality is the motor is going to heat soak in stop and go traffic. You can't stop heat soak in warm weather. You can slow down the heat soak process by a few minutes, but that's the best you're going to get. If you're on the highway, heat soak won't be as much as issue because a lot of air is moving through the engine bay. Hook up an OBDII datalogger and read the air intake sensor values. You'll see what I'm talking about. Also, hot compression chambers (ie block/heads) with a cold air charge create the most power and are the most efficent. Not a cool engine with hot summer air.
Yanking and cutting all these parts off the car really hasn't improved the motors ability to shed heat and has most likely increased drag. Those lower bumper ducts are designed to funnel air to the raditator, tranny cooler, and AC cooler. Apparently you didn't know that. Now you've made a setup that makes the incoming air turbulent and not directed towards probably the most critcal components of a car. I'd strongly reconsider this modification.
These fenderwell CAIs are silly as well. Do you guys not realize that ambient temps at near street surfaces approach 130+ degrees on 90+ degree days? Expose the filter like Inaccurate did and now you open up the potential for all sort of debris to pummel and lodge itself in the filter media. The OEM intakes on your cars, while quiet, are very efficent and become pressurized at speed due to the location and the way the ducting is shaped. More importantly, the air brought in is ambient and not as influenced by street temps. I have yet to see anyone post a 3rd party dyno of a CAI either. From what I can tell, everyone is apparently buying these things based on what the aftermarket companies say and the incorrect notion that the OEM intake is restrictive because it's "ugly". It's so far from the truth.
I'm all for Shade Tree mods, but sometimes you need to step back and research and understand why highly paid engineers do the things they do.
DA is out of your control. You can wrap your intake pipes, add silly plastic spacers to your intake manifolds, ice the intake manifold, but the reality is the motor is going to heat soak in stop and go traffic. You can't stop heat soak in warm weather. You can slow down the heat soak process by a few minutes, but that's the best you're going to get. If you're on the highway, heat soak won't be as much as issue because a lot of air is moving through the engine bay. Hook up an OBDII datalogger and read the air intake sensor values. You'll see what I'm talking about. Also, hot compression chambers (ie block/heads) with a cold air charge create the most power and are the most efficent. Not a cool engine with hot summer air.
Yanking and cutting all these parts off the car really hasn't improved the motors ability to shed heat and has most likely increased drag. Those lower bumper ducts are designed to funnel air to the raditator, tranny cooler, and AC cooler. Apparently you didn't know that. Now you've made a setup that makes the incoming air turbulent and not directed towards probably the most critcal components of a car. I'd strongly reconsider this modification.
These fenderwell CAIs are silly as well. Do you guys not realize that ambient temps at near street surfaces approach 130+ degrees on 90+ degree days? Expose the filter like Inaccurate did and now you open up the potential for all sort of debris to pummel and lodge itself in the filter media. The OEM intakes on your cars, while quiet, are very efficent and become pressurized at speed due to the location and the way the ducting is shaped. More importantly, the air brought in is ambient and not as influenced by street temps. I have yet to see anyone post a 3rd party dyno of a CAI either. From what I can tell, everyone is apparently buying these things based on what the aftermarket companies say and the incorrect notion that the OEM intake is restrictive because it's "ugly". It's so far from the truth.
I'm all for Shade Tree mods, but sometimes you need to step back and research and understand why highly paid engineers do the things they do.
I'm a private pilot, and for the plane throttle and fuel efficiency all depends on outside air conditions (Pressure, Density, Temperature, Humidity, all of them dependes on the altitude).
Want more power and cooler ride, go live on a high altitude city with temperatures around 60ºF and not much rain or near to the beach. The dryer, the cooler, the higher, the better.
08-28-2009, 10:49 PM
#155
You are absolutely right!
I'm a private pilot, and for the plane throttle and fuel efficiency all depends on outside air conditions (Pressure, Density, Temperature, Humidity, all of them dependes on the altitude).
Want more power and cooler ride, go live on a high altitude city with temperatures around 60ºF and not much rain or near to the beach. The dryer, the cooler, the higher, the better.
I'm a private pilot, and for the plane throttle and fuel efficiency all depends on outside air conditions (Pressure, Density, Temperature, Humidity, all of them dependes on the altitude).
Want more power and cooler ride, go live on a high altitude city with temperatures around 60ºF and not much rain or near to the beach. The dryer, the cooler, the higher, the better.
08-29-2009, 08:45 AM
#156
Three Wheelin'
You are absolutely right!
I'm a private pilot, and for the plane throttle and fuel efficiency all depends on outside air conditions (Pressure, Density, Temperature, Humidity, all of them dependes on the altitude).
Want more power and cooler ride, go live on a high altitude city with temperatures around 60ºF and not much rain or near to the beach. The dryer, the cooler, the higher, the better.
I'm a private pilot, and for the plane throttle and fuel efficiency all depends on outside air conditions (Pressure, Density, Temperature, Humidity, all of them dependes on the altitude).
Want more power and cooler ride, go live on a high altitude city with temperatures around 60ºF and not much rain or near to the beach. The dryer, the cooler, the higher, the better.
08-30-2009, 09:18 PM
#157
practicing nihilist
the less dense air at higher altitudes produces less drag, also. it's easier for planes to move faster through the air but lower density means less efficient combustion. Props & helicopters also don't get as big a bite of air at higher altitudes, which is why helicopters generally have pretty low density altitude limits except for the over-powered rigs, like Chinooks.
good refresher
good refresher
08-30-2009, 09:37 PM
#158
Three Wheelin'
i thought an airplane (gas powered turbines) makes its own atmospheric pressure, and isn't affected by altitude, like a fuel injected NA motor does...same thing applies to turbo applications, they're not affected by altitude the way a NA application is, since they generate their own "pressure"
now temp is a whole different issue.
now temp is a whole different issue.
08-30-2009, 10:06 PM
#159
Team Owner
i thought an airplane (gas powered turbines) makes its own atmospheric pressure, and isn't affected by altitude, like a fuel injected NA motor does...same thing applies to turbo applications, they're not affected by altitude the way a NA application is, since they generate their own "pressure"
now temp is a whole different issue.
now temp is a whole different issue.
08-30-2009, 10:19 PM
#160
practicing nihilist
never heard of jet turbine engines making their own "pressure". The reduction in performance at altitude due to air density is negligible when compared to the aerodynamic benefit. Jet's go high when they want to cruise and save gas.
Helo's (not sure about props) suffer from lack of performance and lack of air to push at altitude.
Helo's (not sure about props) suffer from lack of performance and lack of air to push at altitude.