Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
07-16-2010, 01:40 AM
#3682
Burning Brakes
libert, kn and hi speed thanks for keeping this turbo project alive and interesting ,if it werent for your purchases and unbelieveable patience there would only be a 30 page thread instead of a 93 page very informitive and exciting thread...and once again libert those brakes are definetly to die for sweeeeeeeet,just the whole car in general total sleeper im really sorry for unexpected victims...
07-16-2010, 06:10 AM
#3683
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
good luck man.
07-16-2010, 07:16 AM
#3686
Safety Car
Bert, I don't know your background with fast cars or motorcycles. But, I know that you are always open to advice. Please be extremely cautious as you re-learn to drive your car. Treat the gas pedal with a lot of respect. If you don't, the pedal will teach you to respect it....the hard way. That is one of the bad parts of having a car with power. You really have to control your impulses and anger. You need to think carefully before wot. Things will happen quick..... sometimes too damn quickly.
By the way. Watch the intake manifold in that video. That engine did not move/twist at all. Those engine mounts are doing a good job.
07-16-2010, 08:00 AM
#3688
Safety Car
Page 51, Post #2025 = Opel is a 6MT. He is putting down close to 400 whp. I do not recall him ever mentioning that he had trans issues.
Page 50, Post #1972 = 04accordcpe mentions that he has destroyed two 6MT already. I don't recall his whp. He has a CT SC with the high boost pulley (I think).
this was out of my original transmissio, which suffered the most damage. its never seen anything but a stock clutch kit too, so you cant blame on harsher engagement from an AM kit. i never ever bang through the gears, unless i was at the track. my thing is, i LOVE stomping in first gear at around 3k rpm and even 2nd gear arouind 4k rpm for bursts of speed. the scary thing is, none of my transmissions gave me any type of warning signs of failure. it gave out on me after coming out of a right turn and stomping on it right around 3-4k rpm. thats when i heard a fast tapping noise that turned into a "kunk, kunk, kunk, kunk, kunk" as i slowed down as i turned into a shopping plaza driveway. then my car just stopped and locked up on me and i couldnt go anywhere, even in neutral. 
it had to be dragged up the flatbed
my second one failed the same exact way, while WOT in first gear. 3rd one didnt actually fail on me while driving, but as i drained the gear oil while installing some brand new axles the gear oil smelled BAD! and i mean BAD!! like a dead skunk and had shrapnel floating around in it. so i drove her ever so gently until i found a good used low milage 06 accord tranny and had the lsd transplanted into it.
it had to be dragged up the flatbed my second one failed the same exact way, while WOT in first gear. 3rd one didnt actually fail on me while driving, but as i drained the gear oil while installing some brand new axles the gear oil smelled BAD! and i mean BAD!! like a dead skunk and had shrapnel floating around in it. so i drove her ever so gently until i found a good used low milage 06 accord tranny and had the lsd transplanted into it.
Page 50, Post #1972 = 04accordcpe mentions that he has destroyed two 6MT already. I don't recall his whp. He has a CT SC with the high boost pulley (I think).
07-16-2010, 10:58 AM
#3689
Page 51, Post #2025 = Opel is a 6MT. He is putting down close to 400 whp. I do not recall him ever mentioning that he had trans issues.
Page 50, Post #1972 = 04accordcpe mentions that he has destroyed two 6MT already. I don't recall his whp. He has a CT SC with the high boost pulley (I think).
Page 50, Post #1972 = 04accordcpe mentions that he has destroyed two 6MT already. I don't recall his whp. He has a CT SC with the high boost pulley (I think).
07-16-2010, 12:33 PM
#3690
Team Owner
I hope the low torque number is not the enging blowing through the convertor or a clutch pack slipping.
I don't think anyone has actually broken an auto trans so we don't know the limit of the hard parts. Hopefully this fluid helps it on the friction material end.
As for the suggestions to lift during shifts, pretty sure it closes throttle anyway. This should be easily verified with the turbo installed. You should hear the BOV chirp quickly while your foot is to the floor.
I don't think anyone has actually broken an auto trans so we don't know the limit of the hard parts. Hopefully this fluid helps it on the friction material end.
As for the suggestions to lift during shifts, pretty sure it closes throttle anyway. This should be easily verified with the turbo installed. You should hear the BOV chirp quickly while your foot is to the floor.
07-16-2010, 01:06 PM
#3692
Team Owner
Was it just the frictions or steels too? I'm wondering what the failure mode was. Did it slip until it overheated so bad that they cracked or did they crack from the torque? I'm guessing they were slipping first, overheated, and cracked. I've seen a lot of abused transmissions but never one that flat out cracked the frictions only from too much toruqe. They will normaly break free and slip before they crack.
07-16-2010, 01:09 PM
#3693
Safety Car
This reply is meant to just add another data point to the discussion.
RacingHart03 had a 2008 Type-S 5AT. He regularly used (abused?) a nitrous 75-shot .
He never mentioned of having a broken 5AT. He did mention that his 5AT would shift very slowly while the nitrous was engaged.
The following is just my theory. His trans had a slower shift speed with nitrous because the Z1 ATF was having difficulty trying to get the clutch pack to engage under the force of the nitrous. That is, he was experiencing clutch slippage. It is my opinion that this slippage would not cause a computer error code (DTC error) because the computer is programmed for slippage to be occurring at this stage. The computer has no way of knowing the time frame. That is, the computer is unaware of the prolonged slippage (i.e. time interval).
The computer just thinks that slippage is suppose to happen at this point. The computer just waits until the sensors have detected that the pack has fully engaged. The computer is not tracking the time duration of the slippage, so the computer is unaware that the slippage is excessive. Finally, the clutch pack does engage in spite of the slippery Z1.
This is were we are hoping that the Racing ATF (click here) will help.
RacingHart03 had a 2008 Type-S 5AT. He regularly used (abused?) a nitrous 75-shot .
He never mentioned of having a broken 5AT. He did mention that his 5AT would shift very slowly while the nitrous was engaged.
I have got to find the thread of my car shifting on the bottle (in full auto mode). It is soooo slow. Slower than off the bottle. Wonder if it uses calculated load value to increase or decrease ATF pressures or delays inputs from the shift pressure switches to save trannys? Its disgusting!
The following is just my theory. His trans had a slower shift speed with nitrous because the Z1 ATF was having difficulty trying to get the clutch pack to engage under the force of the nitrous. That is, he was experiencing clutch slippage. It is my opinion that this slippage would not cause a computer error code (DTC error) because the computer is programmed for slippage to be occurring at this stage. The computer has no way of knowing the time frame. That is, the computer is unaware of the prolonged slippage (i.e. time interval).
The computer just thinks that slippage is suppose to happen at this point. The computer just waits until the sensors have detected that the pack has fully engaged. The computer is not tracking the time duration of the slippage, so the computer is unaware that the slippage is excessive. Finally, the clutch pack does engage in spite of the slippery Z1.
This is were we are hoping that the Racing ATF (click here) will help.
07-16-2010, 01:39 PM
#3694
Team Owner
This reply is meant to just add another data point to the discussion.
RacingHart03 had a 2008 Type-S 5AT. He regularly used (abused?) a nitrous 75-shot .
He never mentioned of having a broken 5AT. He did mention that his 5AT would shift very slowly while the nitrous was engaged.
The following is just my theory. His trans had a slower shift speed with nitrous because the Z1 ATF was having difficulty trying to get the clutch pack to engage under the force of the nitrous. That is, he was experiencing clutch slippage. It is my opinion that this slippage would not cause a computer error code (DTC error) because the computer is programmed for slippage to be occurring at this stage. The computer has no way of knowing the time frame. That is, the computer is unaware of the prolonged slippage (i.e. time interval).
The computer just thinks that slippage is suppose to happen at this point. The computer just waits until the sensors have detected that the pack has fully engaged. The computer is not tracking the time duration of the slippage, so the computer is unaware that the slippage is excessive. Finally, the clutch pack does engage in spite of the slippery Z1.
This is were we are hoping that the Racing ATF (click here) will help.
RacingHart03 had a 2008 Type-S 5AT. He regularly used (abused?) a nitrous 75-shot .
He never mentioned of having a broken 5AT. He did mention that his 5AT would shift very slowly while the nitrous was engaged.
The following is just my theory. His trans had a slower shift speed with nitrous because the Z1 ATF was having difficulty trying to get the clutch pack to engage under the force of the nitrous. That is, he was experiencing clutch slippage. It is my opinion that this slippage would not cause a computer error code (DTC error) because the computer is programmed for slippage to be occurring at this stage. The computer has no way of knowing the time frame. That is, the computer is unaware of the prolonged slippage (i.e. time interval).
The computer just thinks that slippage is suppose to happen at this point. The computer just waits until the sensors have detected that the pack has fully engaged. The computer is not tracking the time duration of the slippage, so the computer is unaware that the slippage is excessive. Finally, the clutch pack does engage in spite of the slippery Z1.
This is were we are hoping that the Racing ATF (click here) will help.
07-16-2010, 01:46 PM
#3695
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
banelba / OP blew his AT didn't he? He hasn't been back since.
07-16-2010, 01:51 PM
#3696
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
My Auto TL is up and running again. I put the second tranny and lower the boost to 7.5PSI. Got tired of waiting to ear from Precision 10. I'm having a blast and so far so good. Rodney could tell you guys about the kills I have so far. As long as your +100k engine is without any major problem, you would be good to go.
On Friday I already got 2 tickets, one for speeding, going 52 on a 35. the car did not feel like it and the second one for not having my DL on me. On Saturday, I had a nice run with a base 07 Corvette. for those is Atlanta that are familiar with 166 "Freedom Pkwy" going to 75/85, that where we were playing at. The response is unbelievable, the tranny was and is still handling it great. Even though I got an auto, I like to put it on the manual mode. On 3rd gear, around 3500RPM is where the real pleasure comes. I always leave my traction control on, and I'm using 91 Octane. All I can tell you is WOW.
PS: The car was not dyno again at 7.5 PSI but on our estimation, we are around 350 to 360WHP
On Friday I already got 2 tickets, one for speeding, going 52 on a 35. the car did not feel like it and the second one for not having my DL on me. On Saturday, I had a nice run with a base 07 Corvette. for those is Atlanta that are familiar with 166 "Freedom Pkwy" going to 75/85, that where we were playing at. The response is unbelievable, the tranny was and is still handling it great. Even though I got an auto, I like to put it on the manual mode. On 3rd gear, around 3500RPM is where the real pleasure comes. I always leave my traction control on, and I'm using 91 Octane. All I can tell you is WOW.
PS: The car was not dyno again at 7.5 PSI but on our estimation, we are around 350 to 360WHP
07-16-2010, 01:56 PM
#3697
Safety Car
I might add for those that are unaware, but a 75 shot of nitrous will add exactly 100 Ft. Lbs. of torque at 4000 RPM. The 4k rpm being chosen as a realistic example of where max torque would occur with the 5AT and with nitrous engaged.
A typical Type-S will have approximately 230 ft. lbs. torque at 4000 rpm. Add the 100 ftlbs from nitrous, and we have 330 ft. lbs. of torque that RacingHart was probably pushing.
For peak HP, I estimate that RacingHart was at 335 HP. Take the oem 260 + 75 nitrous = 335 HP.
This is a far way off of what the turbo is able to really produce if that turbo was unleashed. Unleashed, the turbo would wreak havoc on the 5AT.
A typical Type-S will have approximately 230 ft. lbs. torque at 4000 rpm. Add the 100 ftlbs from nitrous, and we have 330 ft. lbs. of torque that RacingHart was probably pushing.
For peak HP, I estimate that RacingHart was at 335 HP. Take the oem 260 + 75 nitrous = 335 HP.
This is a far way off of what the turbo is able to really produce if that turbo was unleashed. Unleashed, the turbo would wreak havoc on the 5AT.
07-16-2010, 02:26 PM
#3698
Was it just the frictions or steels too? I'm wondering what the failure mode was. Did it slip until it overheated so bad that they cracked or did they crack from the torque? I'm guessing they were slipping first, overheated, and cracked. I've seen a lot of abused transmissions but never one that flat out cracked the frictions only from too much toruqe. They will normaly break free and slip before they crack.
07-16-2010, 02:34 PM
#3699
Team Owner
Ohh, they were slipping a bit, with the TQ I was doing 1-2 burnouts with 3rd chirps, when I examined them yes both the steels and frictions were cracked, but the steels are actually thicker material and were not nearly as bad, personally I think it was pure TQ with the sticky tires (235 width Yokohamas). 2nd was also in bad shape. But the steels were not severly heat checked, some discoloration, but not fully blued nor heat distorted.....
Off topic but I remember in my early years thinking I was doing a burnout but instead I was just burning the trans up. That's a bad feeling.
07-16-2010, 02:52 PM
#3700
Safety Car
I totally agree with IHC. We are not arguing at all with you Paul. We are just trying to get all of the facts to better understand this 5AT failure situation.
Here is the flow of power for 1st gear.
To me, the key question is does gear multiplication occur before or after the clutch pack. If the power is multiplied before reaching the pack, then I would say that for sure the sticky tires is what caused the failure.
If you have ever played with the math, you will see that the gear multiplication makes a huge difference.
Take for example what the trans output force is before the final drive. Let's say that 200 ftlbs is being sent into the trans.
Once the trans does it's 1st gear multiplication, this 200 ftlbs will become 513 ftlbs of force.
To duplicate the same amount of force *before* the gear multiplication, the engine would had needed to make that 513 ftlbs at the crank.
In other words, is the 1st-gear clutch pack handling 200 ftlbs or 513 ftlbs of force (to follow my example)?
From the diagram, it looks like the clutch is handling the 513. In that case, sticky tires would had caused the failure. Street tires would be a safety-fuse and not allow excessive torque to be built-up in first gear.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 07-16-2010 at 02:59 PM.
07-16-2010, 03:17 PM
#3701
Safety Car
Forget my theory. After looking at the diagrams more closely, I was wrong. The gear multiplication occurs after the clutch pack. The sticky tires was not the main cause like I thought. The clutch pack was just handling (or, failed to handle) just the power produce from the engine without any gear multiplication.
07-16-2010, 04:25 PM
#3702
How were the sun shells? This is the common failure point with too much torque in the clutch pack area in nearly any trans, much more so than the clutches and steels. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to argue and I really appreciate the info. Just want to get to the bottom of it.
Off topic but I remember in my early years thinking I was doing a burnout but instead I was just burning the trans up. That's a bad feeling.
Off topic but I remember in my early years thinking I was doing a burnout but instead I was just burning the trans up. That's a bad feeling.
Here are some pics from when I rebuilt the tranny in my pilot a few years ago when 2nd gear broke off a tooth, same core 3 shaft 5spd AT that is used all the way up to the 06TL, just has a extra shaft off the other side of the diff to power the rear wheels.
07-16-2010, 09:05 PM
#3703
What a long day. We went to the dyno at Bruces Speed Shop in Rockaway NJ. Its a mobile dynojet so it was outdoors. We did 11 pulls in 105 degree heat. Definitely not optimal conditions. IAT's were around 145 degrees. HP and TQ numbers started to fall on the last few runs because it was so hot.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
07-16-2010, 09:14 PM
#3704
I agree. Bert, you are now quicker than me. As far as I can remember, your car is now the quickest 5AT. Congratulations dude. I know that you worked hard to get to this point.
Bert, I don't know your background with fast cars or motorcycles. But, I know that you are always open to advice. Please be extremely cautious as you re-learn to drive your car. Treat the gas pedal with a lot of respect. If you don't, the pedal will teach you to respect it....the hard way. That is one of the bad parts of having a car with power. You really have to control your impulses and anger. You need to think carefully before wot. Things will happen quick..... sometimes too damn quickly.
By the way. Watch the intake manifold in that video. That engine did not move/twist at all. Those engine mounts are doing a good job.
Bert, I don't know your background with fast cars or motorcycles. But, I know that you are always open to advice. Please be extremely cautious as you re-learn to drive your car. Treat the gas pedal with a lot of respect. If you don't, the pedal will teach you to respect it....the hard way. That is one of the bad parts of having a car with power. You really have to control your impulses and anger. You need to think carefully before wot. Things will happen quick..... sometimes too damn quickly.
By the way. Watch the intake manifold in that video. That engine did not move/twist at all. Those engine mounts are doing a good job.
Right now I have a innovative 60a front mount and a excellerate 75a side and rear mount. Innovative 85a front bushing is in the mail.
I hope the low torque number is not the enging blowing through the convertor or a clutch pack slipping.
I don't think anyone has actually broken an auto trans so we don't know the limit of the hard parts. Hopefully this fluid helps it on the friction material end.
As for the suggestions to lift during shifts, pretty sure it closes throttle anyway. This should be easily verified with the turbo installed. You should hear the BOV chirp quickly while your foot is to the floor.
I don't think anyone has actually broken an auto trans so we don't know the limit of the hard parts. Hopefully this fluid helps it on the friction material end.
As for the suggestions to lift during shifts, pretty sure it closes throttle anyway. This should be easily verified with the turbo installed. You should hear the BOV chirp quickly while your foot is to the floor.
Rodney made a post on here in regards to banelba a while back. He said that banelba took the car back to his country (wherever that may be), lowered the boost a little bit and is running problem free.
07-16-2010, 09:44 PM
#3705
Team Owner
What a long day. We went to the dyno at Bruces Speed Shop in Rockaway NJ. Its a mobile dynojet so it was outdoors. We did 11 pulls in 105 degree heat. Definitely not optimal conditions. IAT's were around 145 degrees. HP and TQ numbers started to fall on the last few runs because it was so hot.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
Torque isn't that bad but I feel it should be closer to 300lbs. At what rpm will it hit full boost at?
07-16-2010, 10:01 PM
#3706
What a long day. We went to the dyno at Bruces Speed Shop in Rockaway NJ. Its a mobile dynojet so it was outdoors. We did 11 pulls in 105 degree heat. Definitely not optimal conditions. IAT's were around 145 degrees. HP and TQ numbers started to fall on the last few runs because it was so hot.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
Boost was turned down to 7lbs. VTEC is set at 4k. The best numbers were 320whp 281tq SAE.
Its very hard to read the graph because there are 11 runs on the same sheet
A/F
At 3000rpms were at 10.8 and climb to 12.5 at 5000rpms then steadily decline to 10.8 at 6800. More tuning is needed but we ran out of time.
My aem wideband sensor seems to be sticking lately. It just toggles back and forth between 14.8-14.9. We cleaned it with brake cleaner before the dyno and it was working on the dyno. Afterwards it stopped working again. Bad sensor?
We are not using the water/meth yet. Im very tempted to run the smallest nozzle (60ml) but I know the car will be too rich. Im going to hold off for now until the next dyno. Hopefully in a few weeks
I need to replace the spark plugs because they are more then likely fouled. You can feel a slight hesitation around 3000k rpms when accelerating moderately. Best way to describe it is like this....you start to accelerate and you let off the throttle for a half-second then hit the throttle again. That hesitation or loss of power for a split second is what im feeling.
Im sure Rodney will come on here and explain the huge difference between the auto and manual when it comes to timing that he was seeing.
****YOU ARE GOING TO BLOW YOUR ENGINE*****
10.8 is wayyyy to rich, change your oil immediatly as it is probably fuel fouled and thinned out. This is also why the AEM gauge is not working correctly, it is also getting fuel/carbon fouled.
07-17-2010, 12:21 AM
#3708
Team Owner
Low 12s to mid 12s is good for a daily driver. It's safe but not so safe that you're losing a ton of power or washing down the cylinders. You can go leaner at the track with good fuel while monitoring knock constantly and gain another 5% or so in power.
It's ok and somewhat normal to see 10s in the transition into boost but it should only be briefly as in 1 second or so. Your turbo not spooling till 4,500rpm is a result of the super rich AF. Once you lean it out, the turbo will spool much quicker and at a lower rpm. The hesitation should disappar also.
Remember, too rich of an AF can cause knock also. I never hear anyone mentioning this but I've witnessed it on several cars. It usually occurs when the Af is abnormally rich as in richer than 10:1.
While your hp will go up a bit, your torque should really jump with the correct AF.
07-17-2010, 01:11 AM
#3709
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
07-17-2010, 06:23 AM
#3711
Don't they look fine?
Is Rodney still around for your tuning?
I find it hard to do keep an eye on the A/F meter while driving. I should have just gone with an Innovate A/F and all their goodies but hindsight is 20/20. For now, I've tied my AEM UEGO to the F/IC and I am going to log the A/F readings there.
I'd eventually like to get the OT-2 and the SSI-4 so I can add the instruments with the analog outputs.
Is Rodney still around for your tuning?
I find it hard to do keep an eye on the A/F meter while driving. I should have just gone with an Innovate A/F and all their goodies but hindsight is 20/20. For now, I've tied my AEM UEGO to the F/IC and I am going to log the A/F readings there.
I'd eventually like to get the OT-2 and the SSI-4 so I can add the instruments with the analog outputs.
07-17-2010, 12:54 PM
#3713
Should the plugs for this car have a resistor? How come some sites say that you cant gap iridium plugs? We gaped the ngk BKR8EIX to .20 and it was working fine.
Will these plugs work ngk R5671A-8
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NGK-4554/
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor No
Manufacturer Heat Range 8
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Nickel alloy
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number R5671A-8
Will these plugs work ngk R5671A-8
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NGK-4554/
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor No
Manufacturer Heat Range 8
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Nickel alloy
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number R5671A-8
07-17-2010, 12:57 PM
#3714
Team Owner
It would not be a bad idea to crossreference these plugs to some "regular" plugs, NGK, AcDelco, etc, in the same heat range. Especially while you're in the tuning stage and likely to foul them out. I prefer regular plugs when running boost or nitrous. The iridiums seem more prone to detonation to me.
07-17-2010, 12:59 PM
#3715
I missed the AF part of your post.
Low 12s to mid 12s is good for a daily driver. It's safe but not so safe that you're losing a ton of power or washing down the cylinders. You can go leaner at the track with good fuel while monitoring knock constantly and gain another 5% or so in power.
It's ok and somewhat normal to see 10s in the transition into boost but it should only be briefly as in 1 second or so. Your turbo not spooling till 4,500rpm is a result of the super rich AF. Once you lean it out, the turbo will spool much quicker and at a lower rpm. The hesitation should disappar also.
Remember, too rich of an AF can cause knock also. I never hear anyone mentioning this but I've witnessed it on several cars. It usually occurs when the Af is abnormally rich as in richer than 10:1.
While your hp will go up a bit, your torque should really jump with the correct AF.
Low 12s to mid 12s is good for a daily driver. It's safe but not so safe that you're losing a ton of power or washing down the cylinders. You can go leaner at the track with good fuel while monitoring knock constantly and gain another 5% or so in power.
It's ok and somewhat normal to see 10s in the transition into boost but it should only be briefly as in 1 second or so. Your turbo not spooling till 4,500rpm is a result of the super rich AF. Once you lean it out, the turbo will spool much quicker and at a lower rpm. The hesitation should disappar also.
Remember, too rich of an AF can cause knock also. I never hear anyone mentioning this but I've witnessed it on several cars. It usually occurs when the Af is abnormally rich as in richer than 10:1.
While your hp will go up a bit, your torque should really jump with the correct AF.
Ive been to busy watching the road when WOT instead of watching the gauges but full boost 7.5lbs is around 4000rpms not 4500
07-17-2010, 01:03 PM
#3716
heres the oe plug specs
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor Yes
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Iridium/Platinum
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number IZFR6K-11
heres the R5671A-8
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor No
Manufacturer Heat Range 8
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Nickel alloy
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number R5671A-8
I guess that answers the resistor question
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor Yes
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Iridium/Platinum
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number IZFR6K-11
heres the R5671A-8
Shorty Spark Plug No
Resistor No
Manufacturer Heat Range 8
Electrode Core Material Copper
Electrode Tip Material Nickel alloy
Insulator Type Non-projected
Spark Plug Thread Size 14mm
Spark Plug Reach 0.750 in.
Spark Plug Seat Style Gasket
Wrench Diameter 5/8 in.
Ground Strap Quantity One
NGK Part Number R5671A-8
I guess that answers the resistor question
07-17-2010, 01:05 PM
#3717
Don't they look fine?
Is Rodney still around for your tuning?
I find it hard to do keep an eye on the A/F meter while driving. I should have just gone with an Innovate A/F and all their goodies but hindsight is 20/20. For now, I've tied my AEM UEGO to the F/IC and I am going to log the A/F readings there.
I'd eventually like to get the OT-2 and the SSI-4 so I can add the instruments with the analog outputs.
Is Rodney still around for your tuning?
I find it hard to do keep an eye on the A/F meter while driving. I should have just gone with an Innovate A/F and all their goodies but hindsight is 20/20. For now, I've tied my AEM UEGO to the F/IC and I am going to log the A/F readings there.
I'd eventually like to get the OT-2 and the SSI-4 so I can add the instruments with the analog outputs.
07-17-2010, 01:18 PM
#3718
Team Owner
The problem was trying to tune the car in 105 degrees with the IATs at 145 degrees. A/F was all over the place. The A/F from the first dyno was 12.0 to 12.8 across the board.
Ive been to busy watching the road when WOT instead of watching the gauges but full boost 7.5lbs is around 4000rpms not 4500
Ive been to busy watching the road when WOT instead of watching the gauges but full boost 7.5lbs is around 4000rpms not 4500
Use the dyno to get it in the ballpark but it will change when you put it back on the street.
I don't know enough about your engine management but once wide open AF should be a flat line with very little variation. I'm sure others can help you with the reasons why it's doing this.
You can always tune it just a little on the lean side and use the meth to put it where you want it. You will get the most power and this will be the safest for the engine, assuming the meth never fails. The meth *might* end up adding consistency to your AF ratio.
Is the IAT sensor pre turbo or post turbo? If it's post turbo, you're doing pretty good.
07-17-2010, 01:41 PM
#3719
It can be kind of hard to watch the guages. I still think with that turbo, boost should come in nearly 1,000rpm sooner.
Use the dyno to get it in the ballpark but it will change when you put it back on the street.
I don't know enough about your engine management but once wide open AF should be a flat line with very little variation. I'm sure others can help you with the reasons why it's doing this.
You can always tune it just a little on the lean side and use the meth to put it where you want it. You will get the most power and this will be the safest for the engine, assuming the meth never fails. The meth *might* end up adding consistency to your AF ratio.
Is the IAT sensor pre turbo or post turbo? If it's post turbo, you're doing pretty good.
Use the dyno to get it in the ballpark but it will change when you put it back on the street.
I don't know enough about your engine management but once wide open AF should be a flat line with very little variation. I'm sure others can help you with the reasons why it's doing this.
You can always tune it just a little on the lean side and use the meth to put it where you want it. You will get the most power and this will be the safest for the engine, assuming the meth never fails. The meth *might* end up adding consistency to your AF ratio.
Is the IAT sensor pre turbo or post turbo? If it's post turbo, you're doing pretty good.
Im still using the stock iat sensor for my readings. 110 degrees on the MID sitting in stand still NYC traffic for 30 minutes....highest iat recorded was 154. Bone stock TL in those conditions is around 140-145. Not bad at all
07-17-2010, 02:51 PM
#3720
Team Owner
So if it's still in the intake manifold and you're only seeing 9-14F increase over stock, that says something about the turbo and intercooler's efficiency. Not bad at all. Once you get the meth hooked up, the IATs are going to drop like a rock and power will be much more consistant from cold to hot.