Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
05-27-2010, 08:14 AM
#3481
Burning Brakes
The kit cost is 5799 complete kit , if you install it by yourself like kn-Tl did that will eliminate install cost of a shop which would be between 700-1000 for install by a shop but again can done diy by following kn-Tl turbo install thread .....
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
Last edited by pass427; 05-27-2010 at 08:17 AM.
05-27-2010, 08:26 AM
#3482
The kit cost is 5799 complete kit , if you install it by yourself like kn-Tl did that will eliminate install cost of a shop which would be between 700-1000 for install by a shop but again can done diy by following kn-Tl turbo install thread .....
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
My grand was:
Mounts - 300
A/F, boost control and oil - 650
Battery relocate - 100
Last edited by KN_TL; 05-27-2010 at 08:30 AM.
05-27-2010, 08:27 AM
#3483
6th Gear
Join Date: May 2010
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http://jandrnextlevelperformance.com/
Base kit is $8500
Need at least another $1000 on top of that depending on what you add.
Base kit is $8500
Need at least another $1000 on top of that depending on what you add.
our Base Turbo Kit is 5799.thats a complete kit(turn key)
i dont know if the above statement is a typo but we charged u 5799. kntl
05-27-2010, 09:38 AM
#3484
Safety Car
WARNING - I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
I am not sure at this point in time. I just want to share my working theory in hopes that it might save someone a lot of grief when anxiously testing their turbo installation. Although you are anxious, do not run your turbo with oem plugs, not even for a minute.
I will not have solid proof that me theory is correct until one or two months from now when I install my Zex plugs (mentioned on page 82).
Here is what I know as of now -
My Phormula Knock Monitor has been working fantastic. It is able to detect knocking very clearly. It can even show traces of light pinging.
I have a method (another whole topic) that allows me to trick the ecu into giving me different timing based on what the ecu perceives as knock. As such, I did some testing with retarded timing.
The timing was retarded enough that I had no pinging or detonation at all with 88 octane gasoline. No matter what, I could not get the Phormula to register any denotation, even solid wot thru 1st into 2nd into 3rd gear. The car was absolutely free of denotation and pinging even with 88 octane gasoline and could had easliy gone to 87 octane. By the way, this is normally aspirated.
However, I would get an alert from the Phormula showing moderate denotation every time I did a wot from 60 to 120 mph. The alert would be after getting into in 4th gear (5AT) from 100 mph heading toward 120 mph.
It did this even with 90 octane gasoline. And, if I am remembering correctly, it did it with 93 octane too.
I am pretty sure that the timing is retarded enough to prevent denotation with the load experienced in 4th gear wot. This leaves pre-ignition. In other words, the oem plugs are acting like a glow plug. If true, no amount of timing retard (FIC included) will be able to prevent this denotation.
The only way to prevent this problem is to remove those oem glow plugs as discussed on page 82. I will not be changing my plugs until a month or two. It won't be until then that I can say for sure that it is the oem plugs.
The other possible explanation is that the oem ecu is giving more timing when the trans is in 4th gear. But, I highly doubt this is the case.
We were almost on the topic of plugs and denotation on page 46. Opel asked what plugs that Rodney was using, and got no answer. Then, the topic changed to exhaust backpressure issues.
Knowing what I think that I know now, I see that Opel did lightly try to warn us about the plugs causing pre-ignition. He appeared to not be in a mood to push the topic (avoiding an argument). In my opinion, Opel was super knowledgeable and I really regret not having him around on the forum. We are really going to be stuck if we loss IHC.
Just recently, the topic of plugs came up again on page 82, However, we have not ever heard what plugs were being used by Rodney ???? I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
I am not sure at this point in time. I just want to share my working theory in hopes that it might save someone a lot of grief when anxiously testing their turbo installation. Although you are anxious, do not run your turbo with oem plugs, not even for a minute.
I will not have solid proof that me theory is correct until one or two months from now when I install my Zex plugs (mentioned on page 82).
Here is what I know as of now -
My Phormula Knock Monitor has been working fantastic. It is able to detect knocking very clearly. It can even show traces of light pinging.
I have a method (another whole topic) that allows me to trick the ecu into giving me different timing based on what the ecu perceives as knock. As such, I did some testing with retarded timing.
The timing was retarded enough that I had no pinging or detonation at all with 88 octane gasoline. No matter what, I could not get the Phormula to register any denotation, even solid wot thru 1st into 2nd into 3rd gear. The car was absolutely free of denotation and pinging even with 88 octane gasoline and could had easliy gone to 87 octane. By the way, this is normally aspirated.
However, I would get an alert from the Phormula showing moderate denotation every time I did a wot from 60 to 120 mph. The alert would be after getting into in 4th gear (5AT) from 100 mph heading toward 120 mph.
It did this even with 90 octane gasoline. And, if I am remembering correctly, it did it with 93 octane too.
I am pretty sure that the timing is retarded enough to prevent denotation with the load experienced in 4th gear wot. This leaves pre-ignition. In other words, the oem plugs are acting like a glow plug. If true, no amount of timing retard (FIC included) will be able to prevent this denotation.
The only way to prevent this problem is to remove those oem glow plugs as discussed on page 82. I will not be changing my plugs until a month or two. It won't be until then that I can say for sure that it is the oem plugs.
The other possible explanation is that the oem ecu is giving more timing when the trans is in 4th gear. But, I highly doubt this is the case.
We were almost on the topic of plugs and denotation on page 46. Opel asked what plugs that Rodney was using, and got no answer. Then, the topic changed to exhaust backpressure issues.
Knowing what I think that I know now, I see that Opel did lightly try to warn us about the plugs causing pre-ignition. He appeared to not be in a mood to push the topic (avoiding an argument). In my opinion, Opel was super knowledgeable and I really regret not having him around on the forum. We are really going to be stuck if we loss IHC.
Just recently, the topic of plugs came up again on page 82, However, we have not ever heard what plugs were being used by Rodney ???? I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
05-27-2010, 10:36 AM
#3485
The kit cost is 5799 complete kit , if you install it by yourself like kn-Tl did that will eliminate install cost of a shop which would be between 700-1000 for install by a shop but again can done diy by following kn-Tl turbo install thread .....
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
We do recommend a wideband guage , like Aem very simple , which cost around $300 ...
A knock box isn't needed or recommended for our turbo kit , (install at owners risk ).....
A final tune adjustment is needed for correct air /fuel .........
Kit ..5799
Aem wideband .....300
install if done by shop ...700-1000..
Diy install......0
final tune ......400
Engine mounts ...310
battery relocation kit ....100
**Optional** watermeth kit ....450 .
Don't you need a custom 3" exhaust that will run you about 500-700, and most should get a knock sensor which is $300. Find me a place that can tune my car for $400, this is not a jerk comment but I have been looking around and can't seem to find anything under $550 which sucks because I need a tune.
05-27-2010, 11:43 AM
#3486
Burning Brakes
Don't you need a custom 3" exhaust that will run you about 500-700, and most should get a knock sensor which is $300. Find me a place that can tune my car for $400, this is not a jerk comment but I have been looking around and can't seem to find anything under $550 which sucks because I need a tune.
Down here we charge 400$ for a tune $450 most , south fl , AND again a knock box isn't recommended for our kits you install at your own risk ......
What are u tring to tune ????? Al motor setup , supercharge setup ? Let me know as I'll be up north to do liberts kit ,and I'm asumming your using Aem fic ?
05-27-2010, 11:46 AM
#3487
Burning Brakes
05-27-2010, 11:52 AM
#3488
Burning Brakes
WARNING - I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
I am not sure at this point in time. I just want to share my working theory in hopes that it might save someone a lot of grief when anxiously testing their turbo installation. Although you are anxious, do not run your turbo with oem plugs, not even for a minute.
I will not have solid proof that me theory is correct until one or two months from now when I install my Zex plugs (mentioned on page 82).
Here is what I know as of now -
My Phormula Knock Monitor has been working fantastic. It is able to detect knocking very clearly. It can even show traces of light pinging.
I have a method (another whole topic) that allows me to trick the ecu into giving me different timing based on what the ecu perceives as knock. As such, I did some testing with retarded timing.
The timing was retarded enough that I had no pinging or detonation at all with 88 octane gasoline. No matter what, I could not get the Phormula to register any denotation, even solid wot thru 1st into 2nd into 3rd gear. The car was absolutely free of denotation and pinging even with 88 octane gasoline and could had easliy gone to 87 octane. By the way, this is normally aspirated.
However, I would get an alert from the Phormula showing moderate denotation every time I did a wot from 60 to 120 mph. The alert would be after getting into in 4th gear (5AT) from 100 mph heading toward 120 mph.
It did this even with 90 octane gasoline. And, if I am remembering correctly, it did it with 93 octane too.
I am pretty sure that the timing is retarded enough to prevent denotation with the load experienced in 4th gear wot. This leaves pre-ignition. In other words, the oem plugs are acting like a glow plug. If true, no amount of timing retard (FIC included) will be able to prevent this denotation.
The only way to prevent this problem is to remove those oem glow plugs as discussed on page 82. I will not be changing my plugs until a month or two. It won't be until then that I can say for sure that it is the oem plugs.
The other possible explanation is that the oem ecu is giving more timing when the trans is in 4th gear. But, I highly doubt this is the case.
We were almost on the topic of plugs and denotation on page 46. Opel asked what plugs that Rodney was using, and got no answer. Then, the topic changed to exhaust backpressure issues.
Knowing what I think that I know now, I see that Opel did lightly try to warn us about the plugs causing pre-ignition. He appeared to not be in a mood to push the topic (avoiding an argument). In my opinion, Opel was super knowledgeable and I really regret not having him around on the forum. We are really going to be stuck if we loss IHC.
Just recently, the topic of plugs came up again on page 82, However, we have not ever heard what plugs were being used by Rodney ???? I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
I am not sure at this point in time. I just want to share my working theory in hopes that it might save someone a lot of grief when anxiously testing their turbo installation. Although you are anxious, do not run your turbo with oem plugs, not even for a minute.
I will not have solid proof that me theory is correct until one or two months from now when I install my Zex plugs (mentioned on page 82).
Here is what I know as of now -
My Phormula Knock Monitor has been working fantastic. It is able to detect knocking very clearly. It can even show traces of light pinging.
I have a method (another whole topic) that allows me to trick the ecu into giving me different timing based on what the ecu perceives as knock. As such, I did some testing with retarded timing.
The timing was retarded enough that I had no pinging or detonation at all with 88 octane gasoline. No matter what, I could not get the Phormula to register any denotation, even solid wot thru 1st into 2nd into 3rd gear. The car was absolutely free of denotation and pinging even with 88 octane gasoline and could had easliy gone to 87 octane. By the way, this is normally aspirated.
However, I would get an alert from the Phormula showing moderate denotation every time I did a wot from 60 to 120 mph. The alert would be after getting into in 4th gear (5AT) from 100 mph heading toward 120 mph.
It did this even with 90 octane gasoline. And, if I am remembering correctly, it did it with 93 octane too.
I am pretty sure that the timing is retarded enough to prevent denotation with the load experienced in 4th gear wot. This leaves pre-ignition. In other words, the oem plugs are acting like a glow plug. If true, no amount of timing retard (FIC included) will be able to prevent this denotation.
The only way to prevent this problem is to remove those oem glow plugs as discussed on page 82. I will not be changing my plugs until a month or two. It won't be until then that I can say for sure that it is the oem plugs.
The other possible explanation is that the oem ecu is giving more timing when the trans is in 4th gear. But, I highly doubt this is the case.
We were almost on the topic of plugs and denotation on page 46. Opel asked what plugs that Rodney was using, and got no answer. Then, the topic changed to exhaust backpressure issues.
Knowing what I think that I know now, I see that Opel did lightly try to warn us about the plugs causing pre-ignition. He appeared to not be in a mood to push the topic (avoiding an argument). In my opinion, Opel was super knowledgeable and I really regret not having him around on the forum. We are really going to be stuck if we loss IHC.
Just recently, the topic of plugs came up again on page 82, However, we have not ever heard what plugs were being used by Rodney ???? I highly advise anyone to not dare running any boost with the oem plugs.
Last edited by pass427; 05-27-2010 at 12:04 PM.
05-27-2010, 12:41 PM
#3490
I started with the Nex plugs but they got so fouled I had to switch to I the NGK #8.
I don't know if it was the plugs or just the car running to rich for too long, but I bought 8 of them so I might pick up 4 more once I check on how the current plugs look.
I don't know if it was the plugs or just the car running to rich for too long, but I bought 8 of them so I might pick up 4 more once I check on how the current plugs look.
05-27-2010, 12:58 PM
#3491
Safety Car
Rodney,
Thank you for the plug info. And my apologizes too if you posted the info and I overlooked it.
By the way, why is it risky to have a knock monitor installed?
Thank you for the plug info. And my apologizes too if you posted the info and I overlooked it.
By the way, why is it risky to have a knock monitor installed?
05-27-2010, 01:11 PM
#3492
Burning Brakes
^^^ we did test a knock unit safeguard which even has ability to retard timing under boost all the good stuff , unlike you innacurate which is well knowledgeable aboutthese units and know what to look for and adjust and fine tune this unit , for an average person it won't be that simple , and now you're relying solely on this unit to retard timing , god forbids if this unit should suddenly have a failure or something of the sort then there would be no timing retard .... The factory Ecu is designed to pull timing I'd love to explain fully but this would be one long post , So I won't go in it right now , but the Ecu is so smart that a knock box isn't even needed at the power level were at now at higher level let's say 12 psi and up I'd recommend one due to the fact you're out of correction factor for Ecu ...........
05-27-2010, 01:14 PM
#3493
Burning Brakes
The plugs will last a while but due to the fact a couple of wires were wrongly hooked up on your car allowed it to idle that rich ,which killed the plugs , but now it should be fine ...
05-27-2010, 01:42 PM
#3494
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ah that's nice been awhile since I was on this forum, was waiting for someone to product a nice turbo kit. So roughly around 7 to 9k for everything huh, that's a grip but how much horsepower is added for the stock TL manual though? Supercharger is like what 5 to 6k installed. If you get turbo, what's the recommendation on tuning? Every 3 months or so, any info on that guys?
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
05-27-2010, 02:37 PM
#3495
ah that's nice been awhile since I was on this forum, was waiting for someone to product a nice turbo kit. So roughly around 7 to 9k for everything huh, that's a grip but how much horsepower is added for the stock TL manual though? Supercharger is like what 5 to 6k installed. If you get turbo, what's the recommendation on tuning? Every 3 months or so, any info on that guys?
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
05-27-2010, 03:26 PM
#3496
ah that's nice been awhile since I was on this forum, was waiting for someone to product a nice turbo kit. So roughly around 7 to 9k for everything huh, that's a grip but how much horsepower is added for the stock TL manual though? Supercharger is like what 5 to 6k installed. If you get turbo, what's the recommendation on tuning? Every 3 months or so, any info on that guys?
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
This mod sounds good but pretty scared the turbo might mess up the engine.
05-28-2010, 02:13 AM
#3497
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Cool thanks for the info guys, just want to get info's and see if I can scrap up some and turbo up my TL =). Since you don't have to tune it often what's the best way to keep it last without any troubles. Like when to change tuning, sparks, oil, ect ect... Turbo can be turned down by the boost control right to see how many psi you want to run correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
06-07-2010, 01:26 AM
#3500
That was just a test car, I don't think he bought the kit just let them use his car for the mock up.
On another note, I am starting to really like the turbo. Went to a car show this weekend ( Good Guy's summer get together) and found quite a few big v8's looking to pick on imports. And I was looking to pick on the big v8's, the perfect match. Leaving the show a shiny red vette smoked the tires at the light showing off for his friend, I just opened up the exhaust cut out and let him have it. He tried again going up a long grade thinking the TQ wasn't there, but no dice the car seems almost faster going up hill.
This is the first time I have pushed the car since the install and it hit the 4th gear rev limiter going up hill like I was in 2nd gear. I can't wait to get my tune right, but it pulls really hard as is.
On another note, I am starting to really like the turbo. Went to a car show this weekend ( Good Guy's summer get together) and found quite a few big v8's looking to pick on imports. And I was looking to pick on the big v8's, the perfect match. Leaving the show a shiny red vette smoked the tires at the light showing off for his friend, I just opened up the exhaust cut out and let him have it. He tried again going up a long grade thinking the TQ wasn't there, but no dice the car seems almost faster going up hill.
This is the first time I have pushed the car since the install and it hit the 4th gear rev limiter going up hill like I was in 2nd gear. I can't wait to get my tune right, but it pulls really hard as is.
06-07-2010, 02:36 AM
#3501
Team Owner
Son of a bitch! I hate not having a computer in front of me and every post taking 20 minutes. I won't go into detail here because every time I've left one out in the interest of time I've been roasted for it.
The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
I'm done here. Too tired of having to say the same stuff over and over and hearing the lame ass supercharger comments by people who know nothing..
The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
I'm done here. Too tired of having to say the same stuff over and over and hearing the lame ass supercharger comments by people who know nothing..
06-07-2010, 03:04 AM
#3502
Son of a bitch! I hate not having a computer in front of me and every post taking 20 minutes. I won't go into detail here because every time I've left one out in the interest of time I've been roasted for it.
The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
I'm done here. Too tired of having to say the same stuff over and over and hearing the lame ass supercharger comments by people who know nothing..
The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
I'm done here. Too tired of having to say the same stuff over and over and hearing the lame ass supercharger comments by people who know nothing..
Also, when you were monitoring knock on your car with 91, did you try 93 also? Educate me if you will. The higher the octane the less amount of knock? At what level of octane would knock cease to exist (if possible)? How much safer will I be since im using only 93 octane plus meth with a 50/50 mix?
^^^ we did test a knock unit safeguard which even has ability to retard timing under boost all the good stuff , unlike you innacurate which is well knowledgeable aboutthese units and know what to look for and adjust and fine tune this unit , for an average person it won't be that simple , and now you're relying solely on this unit to retard timing , god forbids if this unit should suddenly have a failure or something of the sort then there would be no timing retard .... The factory Ecu is designed to pull timing I'd love to explain fully but this would be one long post , So I won't go in it right now , but the Ecu is so smart that a knock box isn't even needed at the power level were at now at higher level let's say 12 psi and up I'd recommend one due to the fact you're out of correction factor for Ecu ...........
06-07-2010, 08:38 AM
#3503
Safety Car
The ecu uses a knock sensor to detect detonation. Knock must first occur, the sensor detects said knock, then the ecu *reacts* by retarding the timing. The main point here is that the ecu is reactive, not proactive.
When an engine is boosted to the limit (usually discovered in hindsight), all it takes is just one cylinder having a single power stroke with denotation can blow the whole motor. There is no margin (no luxury) to be *reactive* to any denotation.
The turbo kit in this thread is *not* boosted to extreme levels. Rodney has designed safety margins into this turbo kit. But.. *If* a motor is boosted to the limit, a person must be *proactive* to make sure that not even a single occurrence of detonation ever occurs. Not even for a fraction of a second.
This is why a Knock Monitor is important. A person needs to know if any denotation is occurring and retune the setup to prevent any detonation from ever occurring. That is, the denotation must be handled in a proactive manner and not in a reactive manner. To be proactive means preventing any denotation from ever occurring. Being proactive can only be done if a person is aware (via a Knock Monitor or other data logging) that denotation is occurring in the first place.
Regarding the octane - Right. The higher the octane the less knock. But as discussed above, no amount of knock is allowable. IHC mentioned in another thread (click here), that his TL requires approx 96 or 100 octane to eliminate all detonation under oem conditions. A boosted motor would require much greater octane than oem conditions.
I can confirm this with my experience too. Even with my light weight TL (less weight means less prone to detention) and 93 Shell gasoline, my engine has occurrences of detonation. I was totally unaware of my detonation before installing the Knock Monitor. But, now I know.
Regarding the water/methanol injection - Right. The injection does help to prevent or eliminate the detonation. How much does the injection help? Will you have zero detonation with the injection? Good questions. We don't know.
All cars and engines are different. Our forum has little (or zero) experience with using injection to prevent detonation in boosted J32 engines. Trail and error will provide us with this data.
This is why a knock monitor (or other means to log the detonation) is so important.. How much does the injection help? Will you have zero detonation with the injection? We must answer these questions ourselves. And hopefully that we learn the answer safely without harming the engine.
In closing, I wish to repeat that the turbo kit in this thread is *not* boosted to extreme levels. Rodney has designed safety margins into this turbo kit. My discussion above is just an academic discussion concerning *If* a motor is boosted to the limit.
When an engine is boosted to the limit (usually discovered in hindsight), all it takes is just one cylinder having a single power stroke with denotation can blow the whole motor. There is no margin (no luxury) to be *reactive* to any denotation.
The turbo kit in this thread is *not* boosted to extreme levels. Rodney has designed safety margins into this turbo kit. But.. *If* a motor is boosted to the limit, a person must be *proactive* to make sure that not even a single occurrence of detonation ever occurs. Not even for a fraction of a second.
This is why a Knock Monitor is important. A person needs to know if any denotation is occurring and retune the setup to prevent any detonation from ever occurring. That is, the denotation must be handled in a proactive manner and not in a reactive manner. To be proactive means preventing any denotation from ever occurring. Being proactive can only be done if a person is aware (via a Knock Monitor or other data logging) that denotation is occurring in the first place.
Regarding the octane - Right. The higher the octane the less knock. But as discussed above, no amount of knock is allowable. IHC mentioned in another thread (click here), that his TL requires approx 96 or 100 octane to eliminate all detonation under oem conditions. A boosted motor would require much greater octane than oem conditions.
I can confirm this with my experience too. Even with my light weight TL (less weight means less prone to detention) and 93 Shell gasoline, my engine has occurrences of detonation. I was totally unaware of my detonation before installing the Knock Monitor. But, now I know.
Regarding the water/methanol injection - Right. The injection does help to prevent or eliminate the detonation. How much does the injection help? Will you have zero detonation with the injection? Good questions. We don't know.
All cars and engines are different. Our forum has little (or zero) experience with using injection to prevent detonation in boosted J32 engines. Trail and error will provide us with this data.
This is why a knock monitor (or other means to log the detonation) is so important.. How much does the injection help? Will you have zero detonation with the injection? We must answer these questions ourselves. And hopefully that we learn the answer safely without harming the engine.
In closing, I wish to repeat that the turbo kit in this thread is *not* boosted to extreme levels. Rodney has designed safety margins into this turbo kit. My discussion above is just an academic discussion concerning *If* a motor is boosted to the limit.
06-07-2010, 08:51 AM
#3504
Burning Brakes
^^^ inacCurate thanks once again for explaining when this box is needed our Ecu has a certain correction factor and boost cut anything pass this level then Ecu is totally blind to what's going on so when this sort of power is reached then I myself would run a knock box.......but the level the kit is been delivered is within the Ecu range to adjust as needed.....
The next quetion to come I know is at what level is knock box required ?
The next quetion to come I know is at what level is knock box required ?
06-07-2010, 10:14 AM
#3505
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
On another note, I am starting to really like the turbo. Went to a car show this weekend ( Good Guy's summer get together) and found quite a few big v8's looking to pick on imports. And I was looking to pick on the big v8's, the perfect match. Leaving the show a shiny red vette smoked the tires at the light showing off for his friend, I just opened up the exhaust cut out and let him have it. He tried again going up a long grade thinking the TQ wasn't there, but no dice the car seems almost faster going up hill.
This is the first time I have pushed the car since the install and it hit the 4th gear rev limiter going up hill like I was in 2nd gear. I can't wait to get my tune right, but it pulls really hard as is.
This is the first time I have pushed the car since the install and it hit the 4th gear rev limiter going up hill like I was in 2nd gear. I can't wait to get my tune right, but it pulls really hard as is.
Damn.. Keep us updated on your new adventures Hi Speed.
- The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
- Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occurred in the first place.
- A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super common AF guages.
- Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
Most of us realize these issues as IHC has pointed out time & time again but I think it's very important for everyone to pay attention to IHC's comments and get beyond the mysticism of what the ecu can actually control. If the ecu can hardly control knock in stock form I think it would behoove anyone with the kit to be proactive as Inacc mentioned. Knowing what's going on under the hood at all times should ensure the reliability and ultimately the longevity of the engine.
06-07-2010, 01:17 PM
#3507
Burning Brakes
Inaccurate everyone with our kit is really interested in using a knock box which is fine anything for extra safety is fine with me , I'm reling on ihc and inaccurate to guide us as to which knock box they recommend and how to set these knock box up to work efficiently......inaccurate would you be kind enough to start a new thread on your findings and recommendations so all of us can be informed and aware , and once again inaccurate I'm not going against your findings I'm always one willing to learn so as you gather more info I'd be more than happy for your updates and recommendations as everyone os tring to boost there cars with the parts that are absolutely needed thks..
06-07-2010, 01:26 PM
#3508
Burning Brakes
I know this is not directed to us but I'll go on to say it's not a matter of faith in the our Ecu it's what we've tested , and our result with safegaurd knock box didn't go as well , but now there's someone with lots of knowledge and more time to further use and test the knock box which is inaccurate , so now we will wait as I'm sure he'll guide everyone in the right direction ......extra assurance is a plus always ..........libert already bought his knock box so this topic on sure he"s awaiting, along with the rest of us..
06-07-2010, 03:15 PM
#3511
Three Wheelin'
ive got an IAT gauge.... what do you need?...if its about 85-90 outside with mild humidity, in stop and go drives, you will hit around 155-160 degrees IAT.
when you get on the highway with that kind of IAT, you will run down depending on how long u drive at highway speeds...but can get down to 135- after about 20 mins of drive at around 60 mph (which is kinda long)...reason is, while cruising, throttle body's open at its minimal state, therefore not a lot of air's flowing through to cool its own tract the manifold
all these numbers are based on NA, not going into boost at anytime..and they're from my own car....
whenever the IAT is around 165, if i spray meth (by going into boost)...in a matter of seconds youll see a drop of 20 degrees...if i keep it on boost, it will get as low as just above 100 on a really hot day full of humidity...
either way...be more specific on exactly what scenarios you're looking for, and i could try and create them.
and nice seeing you around here again lol
when you get on the highway with that kind of IAT, you will run down depending on how long u drive at highway speeds...but can get down to 135- after about 20 mins of drive at around 60 mph (which is kinda long)...reason is, while cruising, throttle body's open at its minimal state, therefore not a lot of air's flowing through to cool its own tract the manifold
all these numbers are based on NA, not going into boost at anytime..and they're from my own car....
whenever the IAT is around 165, if i spray meth (by going into boost)...in a matter of seconds youll see a drop of 20 degrees...if i keep it on boost, it will get as low as just above 100 on a really hot day full of humidity...
either way...be more specific on exactly what scenarios you're looking for, and i could try and create them.
and nice seeing you around here again lol
06-07-2010, 03:33 PM
#3512
Three Wheelin'
06-07-2010, 04:06 PM
#3513
Safety Car
06-08-2010, 05:44 AM
#3515
Burning Brakes
Nice to hear from you ,remember we are here to recommend, aware and share knowledge to people of do and donts, so try to stick around quite a few people still look towards your opinion ...
06-09-2010, 05:19 AM
#3516
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Man it's sweet to see you guys with them turbos, wonder if anyone dares to go stage 2 XD if possible. I thought our engine was the clean emission or something like that so we can't get turbo which won't pass smog test. It would be great if someone can confirm or it was already mentioned sorry tried to skim through the 88 pages but it's a long list to read.
Thanks
Thanks
06-09-2010, 09:58 AM
#3517
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
It wont pass smog. You need to find your own solution for that issue.
06-13-2010, 07:57 PM
#3520
Burning Brakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ZDD...=youtube_gdata