KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Sure you can do that. But you will throw a CEL unless you can somehow figure out how to fool the stock ECU into thinking it has what it expects from the sensor you removed.

If someone was really looking into this, you could first figure out what wires are the heater and which are the levels and look at what the outputs are with an oscilloscope realtime. Then find/build a circuit that will send those levels to the stock ECU.

The other thing is that the wideband O2 sensors that come with most of these controllers won't be able to handle the heat coming off the heads like that. They specify certain distances in their instructions for mounting locations because of the heat range.

Another option would be to install a defouler on the top of the precat and put an EGT probe in there to see what temperatures you are getting. Then you'll know what the O2 sensor would have to endure. Then you can maintain the OEM sensor and add either a narrowband for direct connection to the MS3 or a wideband for the analog connection.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

i got a killer idea.....someone validate.....

instead of connecting the OEM O2 sensor the OEM plug, you can connect some resistors to the plug and have the ECU believe the OEM O2 sensor is working perfectly....

then use the bung to plug in a wideband sensor and wire it to the MS3 OR use the OEM sensor (if you can) and wire it to the MS3....

that should work right ?

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

but KN had a valid statement on heat... all the Bosch sensors all say 18 inches away from exhaust outlet.. not sure if we can plug in the sensor in same location as OEM bung due to heat

annoying part I think is trying to figure out what the output is from the OEM sensor.. and somehow convert it to something MS3 can use.. the circuit board that KN mentioned would be a way to do it but sounds like a lot of testing...

but swoosh, your first part is a valid argument to use to fool the OEM ECU... I am just trying to figure out how to use the OEM sensor with the MS3...

and for others who are reading.. again means nothing about getting the ECU just thinking out loud on another mod

and to clarify.. GET THE ECU!!!

on a side note I am freakin excited to get it!

the fenda rolla

Or somehow splice one of the *bottom* OEM O2 sensor wires from one to the other (piggybacking, if you will so the stock ECU still receives the proper signal) and use that open bung for the aftermarket sensor?

Kinda the same idea as Swoosh's, just instead of the resistors, just use the other O2 sensor's signal?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The bottom and top O2 sensors appear to be different beasts. If you have the ETM, it has the circuit diagrams for the sensors.

Knowing next to nothing about O2 sensor operations, there are connections to VS-Cell Voltage Input, Reference Voltage, HOS2 Pump Cell Control and Label Reference Resistance Input along with a Heater Pin.

VS Cell Voltage Input and HOS2 Pump Cell Control appears to be a variable resistance and variable voltage circuit wired in series for both pins and the Label Reference Resistance is just a fixed resistor. The bottom of those circuits (opposite from the ECU connection) are tied together and go back to the Reference Voltage pin. The Reference Resistor just goes to Sensor Ground.

The secondary sensor just has one input to the ECU which again is the variable resistance/variable voltage wired in series and a heater circuit.

Look around for O2 simulators. I bet it can be done. Doesn't really matter if the ECU is being fooled with improper values as it's not doing anything anyway with regard to the air fuel mixture.

If I had to worry about this I would definitely go further. I am just bored tonight and thought I'd give you all food for thought.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

well i felt like a genius for a full 44 minutes....and it felt good....

will let you guys figure it out....am gonna go get me some nice indian food

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

I'm no genius in regards to 02's but I just welded a bung into my Jpipe right after the merge (since my MS3 only does single 02 logging anyhow) and have been running a 3rd 02. Another option is that I found a company who makes these simulators for the J series motors. It's a fairly simple logic chip and some other small electronics. PM me if interested and ill try to find the link. If im remembering correctly, it manipulates the 0-5v sine wave to make the pulse more of what a Honda ECU expects and also simulates the heater core.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ any chances of you posting that info here ?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee lol...ive gotta find it first

the fenda rolla

Hey Rodney just wondering if you could also give us the stock map so we can see the stock parameters and compare them to our custom map so we can see how different they are from each other. Thanks!

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

hey swoosh, got that spreadsheet handy? how soon til rodney can start shipping now that he has 10 orders in?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

i dont think there is a stock map

the ECU decides to pull timing depending on various things (IAT/etc).....well i bet the tuners start from say 13 over all (on the map) and then tune their way through the map....

yup got the spreadsheet ready.....we have 10 payments in.....this includes mine + 1 other member who paid before even the GB started (start up cash for Rodney).....lemme ask Rodney if our payments "count".....otherwise we need 2 more payments

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ hahhaha there were 17 people who confirmed....PM's go to them today....

r3devi7

iTrader: (2)

Get 'em!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Badger the crap out of them. Don't let history repeat itself.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Just an FYI for everyone in the GB that was considering the extended harness (see my posting): Link

Keep an eye on that thread and see how stuff works out before getting the same setup.

the fenda rolla

Very interesting topic about the extended harness...if Rodney (or someone else) can confirm that the extended harness is actually causing too much interference, then that would be great.

At this point, since I already pre-ordered my ECU with harness, I actually want to cancel the harness and just get the ECU. Especially if KN_TL is saying it fits nicely in the passenger footwell with a little foam cutting.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yeah i have ordered the harness too am not an eager dude....

i do want to see the issue being isolated to the harness....

he went from MS3+harness to stock ECU....i want him to the the MS3 with the same tune with smaller harness to confirm the issue is the longer harness....

if the issue is isolated to the harness, i bet Rodney will do something about it

the fenda rolla

^^^ Good to hear, I still may just forgo the harness anyway...in for more conclusive results...

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

yeah I mean why not just scratch the harness and hook it up on the passenger side? I never understood why people wanted the extended harness in the first place.

the fenda rolla

^^^ so there is no bump in the passenger foot well? So there will be easier access for USB/input/output wires? There is a USB port in the MS3 right?

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^i'm sure the "bump" is literally nothing and would be easy to access when you need to.

extended harness just seems like added work and can cause a scramble on its way to your stock ECU hook up. I'd rather have a straight hook up.

the fenda rolla

^^^ now that I'm thinking about it more (I did think about it before but I guess I was thinking about the convenience of having it close by and easier access and not having it interfere with my passenger) but now I don't think the distance from the stock ECU is a good thing...

Guess we'll just have to see how this plays out with Rodney's response to bmeyer...

r3devi7

iTrader: (2)

Plus one. I already paid for mine, yet if it is found to cause problems, or that its really unnecessary, I will probably remove that from my order.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

In actuality, the access to the ECU itself is better in the footwell. You have to remove the seat to get to it where in the footwell you just pull out the mat and roll the carpet back.

The bump in the footwell is so minimal and is high up so you really don't know it's there.

It also looks like the problem with the harness could be bad assembly. I am going to pull mine out and take a look at what mine looks like.

It is a frigid -4deg F out right now and with an unheated garage, it's not going to happen tonight. But we're supposed to be back in the mid-30's later this week so I should be able to get to it in a day or two.

I also wouldn't let this be a huge disappointment to all of you and hopefully you'll be patient. The strides made are still valid and there are just issues with the execution of the manufacturing. I really wish I lived closer to Rodney. I have a lot of experience with board and cable assemblies and would have done work for him for nothing.....

I know bmeyer has to be mad and rightfully so, but I am pretty sure Rodney will make things right in the event something was damaged.

the fenda rolla

^^^ you're right KN_TL, I am also confident Rodney will make things right with this...and yes, I will also cancel my harness order as well, you make some good points with putting the ECU next to the stock one.

btw, I sure don't miss living in NH right now...and go Pats...

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^freakin patriots...I don't want to play them next week

the fenda rolla

^ haha, well it sure is lookin' that way! Brady taking Tebow to school...

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^yeah I expected this to happen. Jesus can only carry you so far before he drops you off.

anyway, back to the ECU...mad gains!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

I bet Tebow would have played better with JnR ecu plugged up his asss....

seems like he is scared of the patriots....

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

even with the ECU up his ass it is the driver (Tebows arm) that would have lost the game anyway.. that boy needs to throw better and he can be a great QB

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

So the extended harness issue was resolved....bmyer's car works fine now and I spoke with Rodney and got a confirmation we all will be getting better harnesses and not test units

Also, i PM-ed couple members on the list and 2 of them backed out due to "unexpected bills".....

come on folks....lets get couple more payments in and couple more people on the list....i will be posting the list up today...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

omg, i want the ecu now.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ u racing someone ? again ?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

its just weird paying for something that I dont have in my possession!!!!!!!!

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

^just, you married? if so then you know we do that all the time.. if not then get used to the feeling

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Sorry. I'll drop the cash in a heartbeat but not until I've heard a half dozen or more individuals install it and vouch that it works as advertised. I'm impressed by the claimed results and the price isn't too much assuming the results are legit. But I've never been the one to jump on the wagon very early. I'll wait until the bugs are worked out

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ hahaha there are no bugs....

the turbo guys have been running this ECU sine almost a year now....yes this has not been tested on NA version but you wont find half a dozen NA guys running AEM FIC either....

but yeah, if you read the thread you will find tons of videos and dyno proofs....i understand your a new member on here and you feel "i dont mind paying $200 more later than paying $1225 and losing all the money now"....

so i leave onto ya....your call