KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Got everything back in the car and was updating the firmware when my damn tablet fell out of the keyboard and lost comms with the MS3. Load aborted and lost everything.

So I spent time loading firmware, setting cals and getting the tune back. So I will know tomorrow if my wiring is ok.

I'm going to vary the vtec point to make sure I don't throw a CEL or go into limp mode as Inacc describes and then it's off to the tuner....But first have to document everything so they know what they're working on. They start from scratch and don't base their tunes on tweaking others attempts. I was happy to hear that.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Wiring is working correctly. No CEL and vtec can be moved at will......

Getting used to that beast of a clutch but it is SO much more forgiving with the HRB. Definitely no more slippage off the line.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Well done Kurt....

any chances of you sharing the wiring diagram and the relay you got for us noobs

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I used locally available relays from Radio Shack. Make sure you get the 12v version, they carry it and a 120V version.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=2049722#



Relay #1 - For the Factory ECU side (Plug on Harness):

Pin 1 - VTPSW (intercept)
Pin 5 - Jumped to Pin 8
Pin 7 - VTS (intercept)
Pin 8 - SG2 (tap)

All other pins were cut off

Relay #2 - For the MS3 Side (Socket on Harness):

Pin 3 - VTS (intercept)
Pin 5 - Jumped to Pin 8
Pin 7 - VVT (MS/3)
Pin 8 - IG2 (tap)

All other pins were cut off

I used Generic PWM A (This isn't how mine is set, I don't have it on this machine)

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Thanks alot Kurt. Just one point of clarification... What does 'intercept' mean versus 'tap'? Im having a hard time understanding what you mean there. (Then again, i havent looked at the harness in person recently). THANKS.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Intercept means cut and wire independently.

Tap means leave the existing connection in place and connect to it.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for that. In addition, couldnt two SPDT relays be used instead? Nothing is connected to pins 2,4,6 (the second pole/throw) and it looks like in the earlier picture you posted that you were possibly using a SPDT for one of the relays. Im guessing perhaps you just couldnt locate another SPDT quickly to complete the project?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

you guys are taking me back to my electronics class...

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

That is correct. Locally only dpdt was available.

If you are ordering specifically for this, a spst can be used, NO for MS3-vtec control, NC for the factory ECU.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for thw quick response. I came to the SPST NO/NC conclusion shortly before seeing yuor response was already here! SWEEEEET

Sonnick

I'm sorry, what does all this mean?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

All it means is there is slightly different route that you could go with which type of relay you purchase. SPST (single pole; single throw) relays can work as well, its just that they typically aren't available locally so Kurt went with a DPDT/SPST "mix matched" setup.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

This means Andy is gonna post an EPIC DIY !!!

r3devi7

iTrader: (2)

Guess if I sit on this long enough you guys will have figured out most of the gremlins. Great work. Always lurking I am.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^mine just sold within 4 days of being listed, so people are def interested in this product.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

And I listed the same relay in my explanation to make things easier to understand.

As Andy's keen eye detected, I am using the dpdt for the NC circuit but using a std automotive relay for the NO circuit.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I made a mistake on Pin 8 - IG2, there is no IG2, it's IG1. Same tap that the knocksense and MS3 power comes from.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Finally able to give VE Analyze Live a try. It was amazing to watch my idle go from the 12's to the target A/F and I could hear the idle smooth out as the red "I'm adjusting" indicator blinked constantly.

I kept the update box checked and took a casual run and also watched the A/F go from constant 12's to 13's/14's and 15's when I don't move the throttle like highway cruising.

Got home and burned the results. I need to do some logging and tune comparisons to what it was originally to what tunerstudio changed but it is a very cool feature.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

so what is your target a/f at idle? are you aiming for stoich? what happens when you turn your a/c on if your idle a/f is in the 14-15 range?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

target for the VE map is 13.2, A/F Map is stoich.

I am still confused about the relationship of the two.......

I haven't tried the A/C yet. It's been in the mid 70's here so it hasn't been needed.

Going to see how much the tuner will divulge in a couple weeks.

Sonnick

I keep forgetting you're on Long Island in my neck of the woods. I've yet to see your car!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

An update on my 'Live Tune' experience.

I let the program actually do a live update as I was driving and I watched to make sure I was covering a certain range. The update light was constantly blinking. I burned the changes, turned off the engine and sat for a few minutes.

I found that the corrections really hurt the stability of the tune. Startups became more difficult and although the idle improved, any load on the engine at idle sent it into an oscillating loop. Also found the same for steady state throttle. It would hunt around as if it didn't know what A/F it wanted.

Went back to the original tune and although I still have a dip in RPM when I come to a stop, the driveability and stable A/F returned. Also high fuel consumption.

From what Bert says, Rodney finds that keeping the A/F mixture rich at idle helps with stability with load (A/C on etc). The bottom line appears to be that the only way to approach my tune is to log the VE Analyze results offline and just grab problem areas.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ Kurt what is your "starting point" for the VE Analyze?

Recently when speaking with Andy he mentioned you should have a starting point as a certain Engine Coolant Temp or Oil Temp or such....

Do you have something defined?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Min CLT is 160 but I made sure it was completely warmed up.

Rodney also talked about limiting the MAP but I wasn't sure what he referring to.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

need Andy to chime in here for that....

there is sooo much to learn from you guys

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Anxiously awaiting gerzand's conversion to cable. I can't imagine how we're going to compensate for things like A/C without it.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

texting Andy now LOL

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

The only way to use auto tune is for targeting mid throttle (kpa range). Otherwise, if you are trying to fine tune drivability, autotune does more wrong than right..esecially just above idle rpm's which is what causes alot of surging issues. If you need to use it due to lack if a copilot when street tuning, the best work is done by using it to suggest where you may need fuel and then you can tweak it by hand....or you could always data log and just make more frequent changes until you get it right. This is all common stuff youve probably been thinking about but i just thought id throw it out there!

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Its comin...might not be till next season though

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Ah, 100kpa == 100% fuelload? Do you have a suggested range for min/max fuelload and RPM for VE Analyze to do it's thing?

Have you been able to get a handle on the surging @ idle? Do you ever use your A/C?

Unfortunately, my wife is my primary co-pilot so I am really on my own. So I'll be using the log and tweak method. Started looking at that last night but didn't get very far.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

you might wanna log off from Acurazine everytime

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

LOL, Reading that again, it didn't come out right!

What's funny is when I first got the ECU, I almost got stranded twice where the car wouldn't fire off and she was also with me when the new fuel pump failed. She kept calling the car a piece of crap and I told her that she hurt it's feelings.

So went for a ride yesterday and she kept saying "Good Car".......

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^

my wife tells me something very very different (since I am still waiting on parts from Rodney)....she goes like "so you paid close to 2 grand to someone for some car part 9 months back and you still havent received all of it?"

"but babe it will give me 20 more horses"

we @ that point

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

better to laugh than to cry!

...and you're complaining about them installing a PVC for radon for $750!? maybe the builder got wind of your spending on your car and figures you'll pay!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

725 dammit

Sonnick

Omg I'd get abused. My GF hates driving in my car because it's pretty loud and has broken mounts. I keep telling her "but babe, wait until the mounts are fixed it's gonna be so smooth." I told her that last time too when I thought it was the trans mount LOL. So at this point she's like "yea ok." Please motor mounts Lmao.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

yup my fiance hates driving in my car as well.

her : "it's so loud and low!!!"

me : "what??? i can't hear you babe you gotta speak up!"

long story short, she is usually the one driving us around in her car.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

damn....i guess i got lucky in that case....

my exhaust is loud as fuck....engine mounts are 60A....suspension is set to 3 clicks from the stiffest setting....racing seats so not much foam under the ass....and the chic doesnt complain....thats why i made her wifey

but in all seriousness, she has really been a sweetheart and helps/supports me for the mods....and we drive my car all the time LOL....her Lexus ES is basically just sitting in the car port....when am out working on the car, she will come down and chill with me....at times helps me with the ratchet and stuff....other times paints her nails

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

I shouldnt have stated it like that since not everyone is NA like myself. Unfortunately, no they do not go exactly hand in hand when boosted or when heavily (lopey) cammed. I'll recommend you read this article (primarily focusing on the last 1/3rd of the article: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mturbo.htm

My AC works fine except for when the motor has been driven really hard then comes to a stop. A quick blip of the throttle may be required to remind it who's boss.