Group Buy for JnR ECU - Dyno's/Gains (12/23); Prices Posted (1/7)
06-25-2012, 12:45 PM
#2282
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
All,
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
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06-25-2012, 12:49 PM
#2283
takin care of Business in
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I was banking on you Andy....i knew your genius ass would figure something out.... 
btw do you know what the issue was? how did you fix it? care to elaborate plzz
btw do you know what the issue was? how did you fix it? care to elaborate plzz
06-25-2012, 12:56 PM
#2285
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^^^ makes sense brother....
well wish i had an .msq to give ya....but i bet KN will have multiple from the different members he has been helping....
well wish i had an .msq to give ya....but i bet KN will have multiple from the different members he has been helping....
06-25-2012, 01:48 PM
#2286
04' tl 6 spd
All,
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
06-25-2012, 04:03 PM
#2288
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
From my email to rodney awhile back which he was unable to solve:
"Rodney,
As mentioned in our texting last night, here is the tune. I am having an issue with surging RPM's after throttle is released quickly (abruptly) during moderate to heavy acceleration. For instance, I am at 60% throttle in 4th gear @ 50mph. I remove my foot abruptly from the gas pedal and depress the clutch. The engine continues to rev to 5500rpm, then fallls back very slowly. If not forced back into 5th gear (for desired speed), it will take 3-5 seconds for rpm's to fall back to idle. If I baby the throttle, this does not happen.
Andy"
....Additionally this can manifest itsself in a slowly rising idle at anywhere from 1200 - 3200rpm, from what might appear to be a vacuum leak.
"Rodney,
As mentioned in our texting last night, here is the tune. I am having an issue with surging RPM's after throttle is released quickly (abruptly) during moderate to heavy acceleration. For instance, I am at 60% throttle in 4th gear @ 50mph. I remove my foot abruptly from the gas pedal and depress the clutch. The engine continues to rev to 5500rpm, then fallls back very slowly. If not forced back into 5th gear (for desired speed), it will take 3-5 seconds for rpm's to fall back to idle. If I baby the throttle, this does not happen.
Andy"
....Additionally this can manifest itsself in a slowly rising idle at anywhere from 1200 - 3200rpm, from what might appear to be a vacuum leak.
Last edited by gerzand; 06-25-2012 at 04:06 PM.
06-25-2012, 04:21 PM
#2289
All,
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
If you have the "sticky throttle" symptom on deceleration (yet your throttle input is zero), please email me your .MSQ's. Ive fixed the issue for myself with both big bore SHAWD and oem 3g TL throttle bodies, but I want to make sure this issue is universal with all J&R supplied tunes. gerzand16@gmail.com
Joey, I sent him the one your tuner created (Magnus*.msq)
06-25-2012, 07:42 PM
#2291
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Yep all, I have verified the issue is VE scaling for non forced induction setups. If your not turbocharged or supercharged, rescale your VE tabled to 5% increments (starting at 25), with a 100 max kpa, so that the computer isnt hunting for an idle while constantly in and out of closed loop, dumping varying amounts of fuel. This isnt spark timing related as rodney thinks, and im not quite sure why base tables are being sent for NA setups which go to 250kpa.
Andy
Andy
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06-25-2012, 08:06 PM
#2292
Andy, you are a genius and a true "good guy" for trying to clear this up for so many other people with really nothing to gain since you got it licked on your own. Kudos to you for the follow up...
About the only actual delivered promise on this entire thread AND it all came in the same day.
I know I have zero stake in the matter but I'm always on the hunt for knowledge about this car and who knows what mods I'll have in a year from now.
About the only actual delivered promise on this entire thread AND it all came in the same day.
I know I have zero stake in the matter but I'm always on the hunt for knowledge about this car and who knows what mods I'll have in a year from now.
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gerzand (06-25-2012)
06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
#2293
04' tl 6 spd
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
#2294
04' tl 6 spd
Yep all, I have verified the issue is VE scaling for non forced induction setups. If your not turbocharged or supercharged, rescale your VE tabled to 5% increments (starting at 25), with a 100 max kpa, so that the computer isnt hunting for an idle while constantly in and out of closed loop, dumping varying amounts of fuel. This isnt spark timing related as rodney thinks, and im not quite sure why base tables are being sent for NA setups which go to 250kpa.
Andy
Andy
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gerzand (06-25-2012)
06-25-2012, 10:40 PM
#2295
Burning Brakes
wit this new info from Gerzand it should fix the 2 major concerns perfectly.....Good stuff Gerzand!! """LIKe A BOSS"""
If only now I get some time to play around with my old laptop and get some data read out and see what mine is looking like........
on a side note I am getting knocking in 5th gear around 50-60mph on about 20-30% throttle...Light is lit solid and I can hear engine chatter a bit...so I stay away from driving in this range until I fix it......
quick question to you Gerzand or KN or Rodney(if he gets in here).....do I need to pull timing or enrichen fuel in this section of the tablet.....I haven't actually drove around yet with laptop plugged in so I can give serious data or indepth numbers I am seeing I will readdress this when I get some time driving around and getting some datalogs
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gerzand (06-25-2012)
06-25-2012, 11:18 PM
#2296
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
pretty much what Gerzand said...all have this, I get it every now and then surge and a bit bouncy idle...but after warm-up it is perfect!
wit this new info from Gerzand it should fix the 2 major concerns perfectly.....Good stuff Gerzand!! """LIKe A BOSS"""
If only now I get some time to play around with my old laptop and get some data read out and see what mine is looking like........
on a side note I am getting knocking in 5th gear around 50-60mph on about 20-30% throttle...Light is lit solid and I can hear engine chatter a bit...so I stay away from driving in this range until I fix it......
quick question to you Gerzand or KN or Rodney(if he gets in here).....do I need to pull timing or enrichen fuel in this section of the tablet.....I haven't actually drove around yet with laptop plugged in so I can give serious data or indepth numbers I am seeing I will readdress this when I get some time driving around and getting some datalogs
wit this new info from Gerzand it should fix the 2 major concerns perfectly.....Good stuff Gerzand!! """LIKe A BOSS"""
If only now I get some time to play around with my old laptop and get some data read out and see what mine is looking like........
on a side note I am getting knocking in 5th gear around 50-60mph on about 20-30% throttle...Light is lit solid and I can hear engine chatter a bit...so I stay away from driving in this range until I fix it......
quick question to you Gerzand or KN or Rodney(if he gets in here).....do I need to pull timing or enrichen fuel in this section of the tablet.....I haven't actually drove around yet with laptop plugged in so I can give serious data or indepth numbers I am seeing I will readdress this when I get some time driving around and getting some datalogs
As for Joey, i'll take some time and rescale your table to the best of my ability this week without having the car present. The rest will need to be tweaked by VE Alanyze live.
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BostonSilverTypeS (06-27-2012)
06-26-2012, 08:42 AM
#2297
04' tl 6 spd
Could be either...send me your tune gerzand16@gmail.com
As for Joey, i'll take some time and rescale your table to the best of my ability this week without having the car present. The rest will need to be tweaked by VE Alanyze live.
As for Joey, i'll take some time and rescale your table to the best of my ability this week without having the car present. The rest will need to be tweaked by VE Alanyze live.
Thanks once again.
06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
#2298
I have noticed that the ms3 is able to keep timing levels stable when just cruising. I can keep 35 degrees of timing for minutes at a time, where the timing constantly changed before the ECU. I also have my IAT sensor skewed to report 16 below ambient, keeping timing up and making throttle responsive much better.
06-26-2012, 12:08 PM
#2299
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I have noticed that the ms3 is able to keep timing levels stable when just cruising. I can keep 35 degrees of timing for minutes at a time, where the timing constantly changed before the ECU. I also have my IAT sensor skewed to report 16 below ambient, keeping timing up and making throttle responsive much better.
i have seen the timing jump around the place like a rat in a hot box !!!
i dont have the MS3 (yet) but i relocated my IAT to the bumper so its always around the ambient temp (+5-7deg highway and +12-15deg city)....and am monitoring my timing which goes from +3.5deg to +40deg all the time....even thow am cruising and at the same rpm and the same IAT the timing is just jumping around....good to know that I can keep that shit planted at one spot LOL
06-26-2012, 12:35 PM
#2300
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
You can forget doing any tuning (autotune or otherwise) if you arent running a wideband. The narrowband is of no use. The megasquirt/tunestudio doesnt care if an O2 is present or not if you are just driving the car. It only needs it when using the autotune feature. It is not only good for purposes of self tuning, but also how the engine is actually running at all times. Without it, you are basically running blind IMO. Its ~$180 well spent.
Thank you so much. Here's my email jdb_79@hotmail.com. I have a question my MSQ are set at wideband o2 but I don't have widebands. I'm running stock o2 sensor do I change it to narrowband o2 on tunerstudio?
Thanks once again.
Thanks once again.
06-26-2012, 12:44 PM
#2301
The Track Terror
Update:
After Rodney said he mailed my check two Saturdays ago (6/16) and said he would text me the tracking number, which he never did, I called, left messages, and texted him on the status of my refund all last week. He did not return anything until last Thursday (6/22) when he texted me a picture of the tracking number for my check and he texted, "late but not forgotten" (but the tracking number never worked). That was the only communication from him all week.
So I finally did receive a check from him on Friday (6/23), but there are so many things wrong with it:
1. The check is a personal check and NOT a certified check, like we agreed to.
2. The check is for $1200 and NOT for $1285, like we agreed to.
3. There is no name or address in the upper lefthand corner of the check.
4. The check itself is not tied to Rodney's account, yet he signed it. So, according to the bank manager, I cannot cash it.
5. The check was post-dated 7/6, which he never mentioned he would do.
6. Last but not least, there weren't even enough funds in the account to cash the check even if I could. (Legally you can cash a check whenever you receive it, regardless if it's post-dated)
From the moment I received the check on Friday until yesterday I continually called, left voicemail messages, and texted Rodney about all the things wrong with the check but he refused to answer or return my attempts at contact. After I spoke with the bank's manager yesterday morning, who suggested I contact the District Attorney because of the legal severity of this situation, I left a voicemail for Rodney stating that if he continues refusing to answer for these things then I will take legal action against him. And he did not respond.
I then called his mother yesterday evening and told her a portion of the situation. Amazingly, 12 minutes later I actually received a call from Rodney. The first in a week and a half. He said his cellphone was in the shop all weekend and that's why he didn't respond to me.
He told me he forgot that he owed me $1285 and not $1200, he could not send a certified check because of course he doesn't have enough right now money, he said those checks have cleared before when he signed them but I had to remind him that the bank manager specifically said I could not cash it because his signature is not on file with the check's account. He told me he will send me a certified check on 7/6 when he will have enough money for me. 3 1/2 months after I asked for a full refund...
I will keep y'all updated...
After Rodney said he mailed my check two Saturdays ago (6/16) and said he would text me the tracking number, which he never did, I called, left messages, and texted him on the status of my refund all last week. He did not return anything until last Thursday (6/22) when he texted me a picture of the tracking number for my check and he texted, "late but not forgotten" (but the tracking number never worked). That was the only communication from him all week.
So I finally did receive a check from him on Friday (6/23), but there are so many things wrong with it:
1. The check is a personal check and NOT a certified check, like we agreed to.
2. The check is for $1200 and NOT for $1285, like we agreed to.
3. There is no name or address in the upper lefthand corner of the check.
4. The check itself is not tied to Rodney's account, yet he signed it. So, according to the bank manager, I cannot cash it.
5. The check was post-dated 7/6, which he never mentioned he would do.
6. Last but not least, there weren't even enough funds in the account to cash the check even if I could. (Legally you can cash a check whenever you receive it, regardless if it's post-dated)
From the moment I received the check on Friday until yesterday I continually called, left voicemail messages, and texted Rodney about all the things wrong with the check but he refused to answer or return my attempts at contact. After I spoke with the bank's manager yesterday morning, who suggested I contact the District Attorney because of the legal severity of this situation, I left a voicemail for Rodney stating that if he continues refusing to answer for these things then I will take legal action against him. And he did not respond.
I then called his mother yesterday evening and told her a portion of the situation. Amazingly, 12 minutes later I actually received a call from Rodney. The first in a week and a half. He said his cellphone was in the shop all weekend and that's why he didn't respond to me.
He told me he forgot that he owed me $1285 and not $1200, he could not send a certified check because of course he doesn't have enough right now money, he said those checks have cleared before when he signed them but I had to remind him that the bank manager specifically said I could not cash it because his signature is not on file with the check's account. He told me he will send me a certified check on 7/6 when he will have enough money for me. 3 1/2 months after I asked for a full refund...
I will keep y'all updated...
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06-26-2012, 01:10 PM
#2303
BANNED
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06-26-2012, 02:17 PM
#2304
04' tl 6 spd
You can forget doing any tuning (autotune or otherwise) if you arent running a wideband. The narrowband is of no use. The megasquirt/tunestudio doesnt care if an O2 is present or not if you are just driving the car. It only needs it when using the autotune feature. It is not only good for purposes of self tuning, but also how the engine is actually running at all times. Without it, you are basically running blind IMO. Its ~$180 well spent.
06-26-2012, 02:37 PM
#2305
takin care of Business in
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@Peter: am glad you getting your monies brother....you have patiently waited long enough...Rodney apparently called me back yesterday as well and updated me with whats going on...I think he took on toooo many projects at the same time....i reminded him that we are only human but the only way to turn this around is to deliver some quality products (refund to you) and provide some service and he said he will be posting up a tuning session which might help noobs like me learn more about tuning i think he has done great things for the J series, now if only the GB was over when it was supposed to, we all would have been telling Rodney how much we love this product
@Andy: cudnt agree more with you brother....am waiting on my MS3 and will get a dual wideband for my exhaust and get in welded on....i remember you telling me about the Livetune and its pros and cons....i am eagerly waiting for my stuff to arrive so I can sit down and play with it....
i think he has done great things for the J series, now if only the GB was over when it was supposed to, we all would have been telling Rodney how much we love this product @Andy: cudnt agree more with you brother....am waiting on my MS3 and will get a dual wideband for my exhaust and get in welded on....i remember you telling me about the Livetune and its pros and cons....i am eagerly waiting for my stuff to arrive so I can sit down and play with it....
06-26-2012, 03:35 PM
#2307
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
iTrader: (10)
Lmao at calling his mother... I also texted rodney yesterday and he stated that he will be sending my stuff out Friday and that I can hold him to it.... I texted him 11am. He responded around 9pm when he got his phone from the shop
06-26-2012, 03:38 PM
#2308
takin care of Business in
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hahaha 
dude Peter text me his momma's number LOL
dude Peter text me his momma's number LOL
06-26-2012, 03:56 PM
#2309
The Track Terror
I'm tryin' bro...I'm tryin'...
^^^ Truth...
Thanks man...but after 3.5 months even I'm starting to lose it...
Desperate times call for desperate measures...
Google is definitely your friend bro! It's amazing what you can find if you look hard enough...
^^^ Truth...
Desperate times call for desperate measures...
Google is definitely your friend bro! It's amazing what you can find if you look hard enough...
06-26-2012, 04:00 PM
#2310
takin care of Business in
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^^^ damn you found her on the interwebzz 
thats EPIC bro !!!
thats EPIC bro !!!
06-26-2012, 09:28 PM
#2311
Well keep us posted on the end results...I really hope he comes through. I can just picture someone's mother getting a call like that and then calling her son with a "boy...you take that nice boy's money and not give it back..."
My mother would probably drive over to my house and slap me!
My mother would probably drive over to my house and slap me!
06-26-2012, 09:51 PM
#2312
I applaud you being patience. If it was me, I would've made him give it to me whether he liked it or not. If you can't handle refunds/returns then you have no place selling things.
Sorry to bring it back, but why is it taking long? Did he use your money for something else then realize he had no more money? I would've just sued him with damages (interest) to be honest. Business is business and I wait for no one that is irresponsible with there dough. :/
Sorry to bring it back, but why is it taking long? Did he use your money for something else then realize he had no more money? I would've just sued him with damages (interest) to be honest. Business is business and I wait for no one that is irresponsible with there dough. :/
06-27-2012, 01:06 AM
#2313
gerzand,
emailed you my msq. my rpms dont surge after coming off the throttle and going into neutral. but they dont fall immediately back to idle either.
let me know what you think about the idle hunting. i know you mentioned a fix but you said it was for non f/i applications
emailed you my msq. my rpms dont surge after coming off the throttle and going into neutral. but they dont fall immediately back to idle either.
let me know what you think about the idle hunting. i know you mentioned a fix but you said it was for non f/i applications
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rockstar143 (06-27-2012)
06-27-2012, 10:47 AM
#2316
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
I haven't been on in a while.
This thread makes me LOL.
That is all.
This thread makes me LOL.
That is all.
06-27-2012, 11:07 AM
#2318
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
gerzand,
emailed you my msq. my rpms dont surge after coming off the throttle and going into neutral. but they dont fall immediately back to idle either.
let me know what you think about the idle hunting. i know you mentioned a fix but you said it was for non f/i applications
emailed you my msq. my rpms dont surge after coming off the throttle and going into neutral. but they dont fall immediately back to idle either.
let me know what you think about the idle hunting. i know you mentioned a fix but you said it was for non f/i applications
I took a look at yout tune, and your issue is likely that there needs to be higher overall spark advance values in your table at idle as well as slightly above idle in the 1200/1500 rpm columns. 10 degrees is not much, and after alot of tuning on my own two TL's , this engine loves 18 degrees at idle. Also work on your smoothing, as this will cause bouncing RPM's as well. I cant speak for J series f/i applications in entire confidence, but one would would think it would be the same concept for idle regardless since there is not boost involved in this area of the map. Send me a datalog if you want, and ill examine. I can also present the question at my next learning session with my tuner if I cant come up with a solution.
Andy
Last edited by gerzand; 06-27-2012 at 11:09 AM.
06-27-2012, 11:14 AM
#2319
Andy, have you considered opening a tuning shop?! With all your knowledge...it sounds like there's a market for someone that truly understands this stuff.
Is this something you could have someone plug in/log/send you the ecu piggy and data and you could do a custom tune remotely then send it back to the customer!? Or is that too dangerous for the motor?
J.
Is this something you could have someone plug in/log/send you the ecu piggy and data and you could do a custom tune remotely then send it back to the customer!? Or is that too dangerous for the motor?
J.
06-27-2012, 11:35 AM
#2320
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
^^I get asked every day at work if I've ever thought about doing what I went to school for.... to be a design engineer. Yes I have.... its just the getting in part! lol
Thats a bit finnicky on this motor. It seems to want fuel at random RPM/load points that arent super common when tuning vehicles. Im not saying it deoesnt happen with other cars, but the TL is a unique beast. Short story, I wouldnt want that on my back with a full remote tune. I have no problem tweaking numbers though
Thats a bit finnicky on this motor. It seems to want fuel at random RPM/load points that arent super common when tuning vehicles. Im not saying it deoesnt happen with other cars, but the TL is a unique beast. Short story, I wouldnt want that on my back with a full remote tune. I have no problem tweaking numbers though
Last edited by gerzand; 06-27-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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