Thanks for the input KN! I have followed this thread since day 1, and thankfully there are guys like you and Gerzand that can and will help people out.

 

^ his rep has been long gone. he and my toilet paper have the same rep, good for only one thing; shit.

@Justin, I think he played us both. He has been ignoring me around the time he was talking to you. I'll show everyone how limited his customer satisfaction in answers are. Ignores my questions and then ignores me in general.

 

i have that code also. whats the big deal? cant pass inspection with a cel?

 

I assumed I wasn't the only one... Sorry to hear that though Brother... Check your PM's.

 

damn Mike....i didnt know you were going thro this mang....

 

This code pulls top end timing on the 3G TL and therefore effects performance from 5k to redline. Clear the code then feel the difference.

I still havent figured out how to get rid of it for good, though.

It's a wild one.

 

i still dont understand how the the stock ecu is pulling timing if the ms3 is saying...use cell X at Y rpm. if cell X is 18degrees wot and its telling the stock ecu to use 18*, why wouldnt the stock ecu stay at 18* ?? ms3 doesnt override what the stock ecu wants to do?

i can understand that the ms3 is still a piggy back and has to send commands to the stock ecu but how can you tell if the stock ecu is still pulling timing? at 18psi i cant tell a difference lol

the ms3 gauge is going to tell you the amount of timing that is listed in its own table. even when i connect my obd scanner and watch the timing, the obd gauge now reads zero at all times since the ms3 was installed.

 

Great question. I sure hope that the ms3 has *absolute* control over the timing. To me, this is one of the few advantages of the ms3. Now that is in question

 

The dyno showed me a 50hp loss having not cleared the code vs clearing. Multiiple dyno pulls afterwards and on different days yielded the same behavior with P0720. I also experience it daily while driving with limited top end horsepower, then clearing the code and mash the throttle again with drastically different results.

I dont have an exact wiring schematic to show you, but coming from a guy (my professional tuner) that tunes on megasquirt everyday, this is the biggest mistake people make in buying a megasquirt. They expect it to have full control and perform like a full standalone when in reality its just a piggyback. In our case, if the ECU can control idle (ever wonder why there is no control for this?), and so it definitely has the ability to have final say in spark control. I think you would notice a marginal correction to your idle issues by driving 500 miles without disconnecting the battery and with no ILC procedure. The ECU It drastically lowers its spark at WOT, and effectively (though unknowingly effecting any piggyback of course) negates any increase coming from the and is purely reactionary to what it sees at any given second in MAP, IAT, and CLT. If we were running a Haltech standalone, you'd be amazed at how much more control we would have.

I think that in your case it is much less noticable due to the fact that you are rarely in WOT and to add to that, youd have to be very sensitive to be able to notice anything other than a SIGNIFICANT drop in power when you're under that much boost.

Hope this helps some. Im no wiring guru, but I have seen time and time again (thus believeing my MS3 expert) that the TL is very quick to react and a beast to tune, even when piggybacked.

 

Thanks for getting back to me Andy.

I see your point about it not having total control especially with regard to idle. I finally have my ride back on the road and with the battery disconnected for the past 2 weeks, the idle acts like it needs to go through the relearn procedure (dips when I let off the pedal).

But my idle isn't like Berts. Mine idles at about 900rpm (no computer attached yet) and is fairly stable. If I gun it, it dips but settles out @ 900 again.

I have to get mine inspected, then I am going to remove the cat and take it to a tuner. I was told they are MS experienced so we'll see.

If after that I am still not right, I'll give you a call.

 

^KNTL who are you going to? are they local in vermont or elsewhere?

 

Quintin Brothers in Williston, VT, they're old school drag racers but have a couple of young guys who have been there a while.

I'm making an appointment for my inspection today and will schedule dyno/tune time while I am there.

 

KN this might be stupid to ask of me but did you follow the idle relearn procedure?

 

Not yet. Just took it out for a short spin and went back into the air conditioning.

 

^^^ so the rpm dipping is normal IMO....once you follow the relearn it should go away....

I am eager to get my stuff in and am getting it tuned from a "professional" waiting to see what this will unleash...

 

Year and a half later and this thread is still going with troubleshooting the ECU, deficient customer service. Im glad I returned my ECU and never dealt with it.

 

Rodney should be the one trouble shooting this so everyone is on the same page. Looks like the users are doing this and looks like i might not be going this route if this keeps up... it seems like there's no to little support in this coming from the guy that has it's name on the product. Or is there a forum that Rodney uses that he puts his time in?

 

^i think were all on our own for the most part. i'd by lying if i said i didn't see this coming from a mile away.

BUT that didn't stop me from ordering one. i know this thing has potential, we just need to keep cracking away at it.

 

^thats a silly comment, bouncer.

we all knew this thing WASNT a plug n play answer, even tho it is touted as such.
you'll need a certain aptitude in order to learn the software.

seems like you were fed with a silver spoon, bouncer.
it takes work from both sides, and i'm glad we have some smart brainiacs on board!!

 

Ran the idle re-learn, when I went to the sit for 5 min stage, the idle wandered around 730-770rpm and over time settled down.

I still have a dip but it's getting better. So it does look like the stock ECU may have some control.

Anyone consider wiring up the IACV to the MS3?

 

someone on the ms3 forums mentioned the iacv to me. do you know how to wire it?

 

I decided to map my harness before making an appointment for my inspection so I can talk to the tuner about it.

I'll let you know.

 

I just looked at the service manual and ETM. Doesn't look like we have a idle air control valve. The idle circuit consists of connections to the brake pedal, A/C clutch, alternator and P/S pressure valve. Beats the hell out of me what the computer is doing to control idle with those components......

Searching on the internet seems to stop with the 2003 model.

 

The oem ecu uses these inputs to keep the idle dead steady..... well, with the oem ecu. All of these inputs monitor any load placed on the engine at idle.

For example - When I just slightly nudge my steering wheel with the car in Park, I can easily hear the oem ecu instantly bumping the idle speed in anticipation of the load coming from the P/S pump.

Same with the A/C input. The split second that the ecu sends a signal to the AC clutch to engage, the ecu also bumps the idle speed in anticipation of the load coming from the A/C compressor.

I can even hear the ecu bump the throttle when I turn-on my A/C while cruising in 1st gear and I am creeping out of my neighborhood in the morning trying to keep my exhaust as quite as possible.

Same for the headlights and brake lights. The ecu is bumping the idle speed in anticipation of the load coming from the alternator.

By the way, I am not making this stuff up. With my loud-ass exhaust, I can easily hear the ecu bumping the idle speed *in advance* before the load is actually placed against the engine. I say "in advance" because of the lightweight pulley and my other mods that causes the ecu to bump the idle speed too easily.

 

Yeah sounds about right. That is why I didn't get the ECU at a later date (after the GB) because from what I've seen from this thread and others, it wasn't just simple plug'n'play. I have 0 knowledge on tuning.

Anyways, I don't know what is up with Rodney. If he's scamming us (which I don't think), I wouldn't think he would respond to anyone. If everything is delayed due to bad decision from himself, then, I believe, he should just straight up be honest. 'Hey I kinda spent all your money on xx and will do my best to get the ecu's by xx. If you want a refund, I will get a loan from xx, and pay you back.'

 

I would never question you technically!

That all makes sense. I was hoping it wasn't a complete software algorithm and could be wired to the MS3. As gerzand said, these things can't be decoupled and this is still considered a piggyback.

I suppose the next step would be to dump DBW, go cabled and figure out if an older IM or TB with the IACV would bolt up (not sure where it's located on a 2G).

 

Cabled rocks my socks

 

^^^ woah, you cabled? why didnt i know about it

Tim, I totally agree with you....i think more than the loud exhaust what makes it more pronounced is the mounts....

the minute i turn my steering when in Park or D/R for that matter, i can feel the engine revs up a tad bit to keep the idle steady....and i have seen this on my gauges....the minute the engine load goes up, the rpms goes up along with it (to a certain point)....

 

^^ Nope, but id like to be

 

^^^ yes, i would too....

can you imagine an ITB setup on a J series engine

 

^^ It's been done by a local honda Quality Engineer. He's pretty tight lipped though. He took a one-off prototype for is own personal use as they were throwing it out!

 

^^^

i would love to rock a setup like that....

 

ITB's FTMFW!!!

 

Andy can reverse engineer what that guy did.

And Tim and Anil...your cars are weak. When I turn on my AC or cut my wheel at all...my car automatically does a burnout.

 

^^^ no thats just the reproduced sound in the cabin....


btw you wont get the joke unless you read this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/tl-exhaust-what-we-hear-865206/

 

Naw man...didn't want in on your joke, wanted a new one!


To be honest...I know what you're talking about from the car just sitting in the driveway and cutting the wheel lock to lock, you can hear the idle jump from just doing that. Maybe it's more obvious now with my exhaust though, so you're probably right.

 

You better believe it. ITB's are on the agenda!

 

I'm sure MANY people would be interested in a follow up to that!

 

Jeremy....its not about just tuning....or just the ECU or just the harness....its about all that and the headaches that come with it....

I bet Andy will do a great job if he undertakes it....fuck i might even help him (monetarily/physically/emotionally/sexually)....but this ECU is just that complex and every car you see has a different type of error with this....

I think Andy has really really good grasp of the ECU and Tunerstudio....if he sells the base tunes (for which again he needs data logging/a little dyno time/prep time/etc) you are looking at a good 150-200 dollars of investment PER tune without a guarantee that it will work like you expect it to work....

I really appreciate Andy/Kurt helping all of us here....I wish Rodney/Doc were on here as well to help us figure out the ongoing issues and make this an ECU which will replace the AEM FIC....

 

That ish had me rolling on the floor...lmfao.

I have no clear understanding of this stuff, but I do gather that this is a LOT harder than any other simple engine management stuff I've ever read about anywhere.