kenny5

I kinda of agree with you, TampaRL. At $40k+, the RL is A LOT OF car for the money. At $50k+, I expect the RL to come with cooled and heated massaging seats, entertainment system (DVD player and X-box) for rear passengers, and a little more oomph when stepping on the gas. Also, I expect more upscale treatment/amenities at the dealership and a longer warranty.

static808

kenny5,

I think we all would like that list of add-ons. If the RL does go upstream, it will probably compete with the LS, S, A8, 7 series sedans. I also believe to win-over new people, a longer warranty would be a great way to entice people to buy the new RL.


That would probably put it at the high $50K mark, say $58K for the base. That way its cheaper than the base Lexus LS for comparison. For that cash I hope we get those add-ons. Imagine a 7yr/84K warranty. That would be nice...

I guess if this does happen, we might be on the TL forums since the TL will get everything our RL gets today and some. Not a bad thing..I guess.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

I think Acura should do something like the Lexus did with the parking feature. From what I have read that auto park thing is just something to say "look what my car can do." From what I have read it doesnt work that great. It seems to work for lexus as they have sold a ton of those cars. Acura needs something like that with the RL. Of course whats left to add to cars to this point expect one that will drive for you.

SpicyMikey

Yep, I'd take a pass on the auto parking too. Seems completely useless. From what I've heard, it's also slow. You can get the car parked yourself ten times faster. Besides, if you can't park a car, you got bigger problems.

If they went upscale with the RL and decided to break the 50k mark (base) I'd want to see them take the CMBS package and add
- 3 more inches
- cooled seats
- night vision
- color backup camera
- a small v8 verson (as an option)

I'd personally love to see them enter the full size market also. Take the RL, add 7 inches to it, change the shape to be bolder, and put a 5L v8 (or that new V10) under the hood.

Do both those things and I think Acura enters the big leagues

swift22

for clarification


The new RL could come out in late 08' as a new 09' model year ..hence...following the 5 year plan since the new RL came out in 04/05

TampaRLX-SH

I would agree with you Mike. However, I don't see a few extra features, inches and gizmos really making the RL worth another $15K. I already think the build quality is on par with a $75K Lexus. I think the engineering is equally on par. Perhaps they can continue to chase German driving dynamics. But toys alone does not make a $50K+ vehicle. If they did, Azera's would be more cross talked in here.

Yeah, sure there are features and dimensions that can be approved upon, but I expect a revolutionary change for that kinda bucks. I am very impressed with Lexus, but I won't buy one because it is not enough a stretch to justify the cost. The LS parking is silly to me. Gee Whiz does not justify $75K to me. I actually LOVE the Hyundai commercials that poke fun at it for not simply using a valet.

Many can say the RL has gee whiz stuff...and I can agree, but at a pricepoint competitive with barebones luxury marques. And I personally find the RLs features useful (aside from NavTraffic which understandably many here cannot appreciate).

I would love cooled seets, an inch more rear seat room and reclining rear seats. A few other electronics cold be sweet. But none would justify a $15K leap to me. The engine, drivetrain and braking are all where I want them. Maybe the tranny could be spiffed up. That is where $$$ will impress me and frankly the RL has got much of it already...for a very reasonable price. The construction is very pleasing and impressive, we just don't hear about it the way Lexus toughts theirs.

Lexus had to make rediculous strides to push the LS pricepoint. SELF PARKING! & 8 SPEED TRANNY! Woohoo! then I saw the $76K sticker and chuckled. The RL in low 40s CAN hold a candle to it even without the headline gizmos and galactal pricing.

Being a minority has it's advantages.

SpicyMikey

Yes, absolutely need a 6th gear and reclining back seats.

The RL bases at 47k. I was envisioning adding 5k of goodies like I described and pricing it in the low $50's to bring it upscale. I agree, there's not much more you can do with this platform to bring it up 15k short of adding a MB badge on it. That would add 15k by itself

However, I'd still love to see them add an "SL" full size sedan around 200" with a v8 / v10 option and price that bases in the mid 60's. A direct competitor to the MB-S and the Lexus LS, etc. but thousands less. Wow, that would really round out the product offering and immediately add prestige to the Acura badge. Not sure what they are waiting for, they got the rep. They got a "near luxury" image. It's a baby step up for them.

GoHawks

Unfortunately, not until Acura develops a RWD based platform, will they be taken seriously. Even the upcoming NSX replacement is going to have issues when it has to compete against the likes of the Lexus LF-A.

I read an article in Motor Trend today (Infiniti G vs. BMW 3 series), where Infiniti was quoted as saying that they transitioned from FWD platforms to RWD to more effectively compete in this segment. SH-AWD is great and all, but the uninformed buying public will equate SH-AWD with poor weather driveability. How many peope are going to value SH-AWD in a six figure exotic?

They're going to say, "I'm not going to drive a NSX in the winter".

Again, my $0.02.

SpicyMikey

Sadly, I think you might be right. The public is wrong on the conclusion, but, that really doesn't matter does it.

I think Acura needs to come up with a new name for this system rather then "Super Handling All Wheel Drive". First, it's a mouth. Second, it makes you connect with an "always on" all wheel drive system originally made popular in SUV's and off road vehicles. This is really much more then that. Maybe "Smart Drive" or something that doesn't use AWD or 4WD in the name would be better.

Mike_TX

You guys and your V-10 RL stories continue to slay me.

If you look at the average luxury car that offers both a V-6 and a V-8 (M-B, Infiniti, Cadillac, BMW, whatever), you'll see the premium to go to the V-8 is anywhere from $5,000 to $12,000 ... and a V-12 adds about $20k or more. Don't you know that to go to a V-10 in the RL would put it in the $65-70,000 range?

I'm as gung-ho on having an optional V-8 as anyone here, but to be honest I'd take a strong V-8 over the complexity, weight, gas consumption, and extra expense of a V-10 ANY DAY.

What I might prefer over both alternatives is a direct-injection V-6 with 300+ hp. Just look at the new 3.6 liter V-6 that GM (of all people!) has in the new Caddy STS - 302 hp, good torque, and it runs on regular gas. Even the car mag people are saying there's no point in opting for the V-8. Ditto for the Lexus direct-injection V-6. And even the twin-turbo 6 that BMW has is a more-than-reasonable alternative to their V-8.

So I say to Honda/Acura: Get on the direct-injection bandwagon. Give us a 3.7 or even 4.0 liter DI engine of maybe 325-340 hp that produces 290-300 ft.-lb. of torque and runs on regular gas. That will scoot the RL to 60 in maybe 6.0 sec. and still return good mileage (on cheaper regular gas).

Do that and people will quit asking for a V-8, much less a V-10!

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SpicyMikey

I'm with you Mike. I'm personally very happy with my 290hp v6. However, some think (and I tend to agree) that adding a v8 option somehow "validates" Acura as a "real" car manufacturer.

I think it was me suggesting a v10, but I was talking about putting that in some new "SL" long body sedan to compete with the Lexus LS long body. I think Acura should basically leave the RL where it is but add a few inches and add a v8 option. However, they need a full size sedan to better match their product line with MB, Lexus, BMW, etc. Adding a full size sedan I think also helps validate their entire product line. Like the v8, it's an image thing for everyone, eventhough 90% of the world never would buy a full size sedan or a v8

Chas2

I agree, they need to add a few inches to this car, but that will mean more weight. Washington Post just had a review on the BMW 530xi, with the twin turbocharged six rated at 300 and 300. That is what the RL needs, a more capable six, to handle any added length. I think a V8 might do, but in the end, for the US market, it is about the low end torque, and how you get there, V6, 8 or 10 is up to Honda.

What was interesting was that this car has a base of $53K, but as tested was $61K, and one of the comparison vehicles was the RL. The article also complained that the technology was overhelming.

kmcheney

It's imperitive that the RL have a v-10 and RWD or one cannot properly drift.

This is evidence of a "Darwin Award" candidate who tried to drift with a FWD platform and went right off a 6 story parking garage and in to a dumpster below.


http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...?storyid=99589

And slidewhow of damage:

http://www.wsbtv.com/slideshow/news/13619386/detail.html

gcook

How about the name S.H.A.W.D. that isn't so bad.

neuronbob

What a moron. Must not have watched enough Initial D to learn that FWD drifting is MUCH harder, if at all possible. Even I know that.

As to the Honda V10: What if Honda has found a way to make it more efficiently (e.g. cost savings) and more fuel efficient that the competition's V8s? I doubt it would happen that way, but Honda does some amazing things with engines...witness the almost bulletproof J32 and J35 designs, whose only real flaws are lack of low-end torque.

SpicyMikey

yea, take that v6 technology they have and start shutting off cylinders at the right time. Turn a V10 into a parttime V5. Saves gas without expensive battery systems or sacrificing ponys.

Never drove a car with that type engine in it. Anyone have first hand experience on how well it works?

CL6

[QUOTE=SpicyMikey]yea, take that v6 technology they have and start shutting off cylinders at the right time. Turn a V10 into a parttime V5.QUOTE]

Or buy a Vigor!

Mike_TX

Those variable-displacement engines are extremely complex and not inexpensive to engineer and manufacture.

I personally can imagine no real-world justification, other than bragging rights, for a V-10 in a passenger sedan, especially when there are naturally-aspirated 4.5 liter V-8's out there making 350-400 easy horses. A V-10 has to waste a certain amount of extra horsepower and torque just to overcome the extra reciprocating mass and friction of its internal parts, not to mention the additional weight it carries in its block, pistons, crank, etc. Look at the V-12 Bimmer 7 - it's not noticeably faster than the V-8 version, but it costs a po-po pot more and stays in the shop more.

I guess if you just want to polish a big chrome V-10 badge and get envying stares from passersby, that's another story, but I still say give me a V-8.

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arthurmnev

I bet diesel will be out before v8.
Unless, Acura kept the engineers that put those awful mich mxm4 tiers on 50K car...

GoHawks

The double negatives made my brain hurt.

That said, I have to agree with Mike. I just can't see the benefit of bringing a variable displacement V10 into the mix, when a variable displacement V8 can probably deliver the same or near performance.

I just don't see it with Acura. Maybe in an exotic like the NSX replacement, but not in a mainstream sedan.

Mike_TX

I originally had a triple negative, but I figured it was overkill.

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GoHawks

That would've just made my head explode.

Shotgun

Notwithstanding the pros & cons of a v8 vs V10's in the Acura line up, the bottom line is that Acura is at the bottom of the heap when it comes luxury cars in the segment its trying to compete. If it want's to stay in, survive and prosper in that segment something radical is in order.

Recall that Honda was the first Asian manufacturer to enter the American luxury car market and Honda's CEO, Takeo Fukui, has already announced a v10 development effort - that in its own right is a radical pronouncement from an auto company which once declared they'd never have a V8.

Stands to reason that Acura could (and will) reclaim some of its luster by rolling out a V10 NSX and offer the same engine option on the Ridgeline and future RL's in a variable cylinder management format.

If Honda/Acura opts for anything else they can kiss goodbye the luxury car and truck segments and relegate themselves forever to the econo box market! However, with their plans to enter the China and European markets whose buyers, I might add, are very status concious when they spend more than $40k for transportation, it stands to reason that their future engine line up will see 4's, v6's, and V10's (might even see a mini eight in there somewhere)...I really can't envision anything less from the world's premier and possibly largest "engine" manufaturer.

Mike_TX

I hear what you're saying.

But none of the other "mainstream" automakers is offering more than a V-8, and I'm just not convinced Honda/Acura needs something as dramatic as a V-10 to make it stand out. I personally think gasoline direct injection is the ticket (drive one and you'll be impressed!). I'd love to see Acura debut a pair of engines - V-6 and V-8 - with DI, paired up with their variable valve technology and maybe some variable intake runners. That would be killer, and it could easily run on regular gas. And for extra pizzaz, they could make the V-8 with variable displacement.

I think that would be a package that would put them ahead of the other guys out there and put them back on the performance map while still claiming ULEV2 and good fuel economy.

The 3.7 used in the MDX could blow 330hp without breaking a sweat, and a nice little V-8 of even 4.2 liters or so with that technology could make 350-360 and lots of torque, and still deliver good economy. Drop even a small-diameter, low-pressure turbo on that V-8 and you could see 400hp with no noticeable lag.

There's lots of room to move, and I understand there are new ideas floating around in the variable-valve area right now that are pretty exciting. I guess I'm saying that we're not at a dead-end with the V-8 ... not by a long shot.

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neuronbob

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...0070716?rpc=44

Cliff's notes:
Acura is at the top of the dealer satisfaction list.

Good on Acura! Now if only they'd advertise that as part of "Acura Advance". And introduce the RL of our dreams....

static808

Acura will definitely have an engine above V6, my guess is a A-VTEC V8, an engine that does one better than the current Toyota/Lexus V8. Hopefully with A-VTEC, all the engines will approach BMW torque with some serious fuel economy.

The dealers have been doing a much better job. they are quick to provide service and are becoming more like BMW dealers (no questions asked, we'll fix it and charge corporate on your warranty service). Kudos to Acura dealers.

Now where is that new Acura lineup for 2009/2010 .....How amazing would it be if Acura launched in the next 2 years up to 7 new models...which includes 3 new coupes (TSX/TL/RL) and the new TSX, TL, RL and NSX....wishful thinking.

Chas2

Very wishful thinking

Rexorg

From the September 2007 issue of Motor Trend: "Pending a 2009 remake, Acura's flagship carries over unchanged." OK, anyone starting to believe me that the '09 RL will be Gen III?

gcook

every 4 years.. that is the norm

CL6

I don't know if we can cite a thread from another board but the recent spy shots have provoked a discussion:

http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...item_id=698294

Check out the first post.

SpicyMikey

All sounds great, if you can believe it. Everyone's got these "sources" for info but never substantiate it. Anyway, I'd like for most of that to be true. personally, I'm definitely behind any idea to leave the RL as a midsize lux sedan and add a full size sedan above it

TampaRLX-SH

Oy!

I must be counter culture. I am kinda thrilled that my 06 RL is essentually unchanged 2 model years later. I'm glad not many changes are done and I hope it will be several years before a new RL cases my eyes to wander. It lessen the twitching caused my malady of new car fever. But what does seem odd to me is that my 06 RL is just approaching one year old and somehow it is now 2 years old?

SpicyMikey

Don't that suck.

That's what you get for giving in to that "summer itch". I tend to get my cars in teh summer too. It does make a difference in resale value too, but not much. A quick check on KBB shows a price difference of less then $2k between an 02 RL and 03RL with the same mileage. Put another way, you lost $26,800k on your $40k RL instead of $25k by buying it in the summer of 02 instead of winter 03. Amotorized over 4 or 5 years and it's even less of an issue (to me anyway).

Mike_TX

I read that, too. Trouble is, does that mean a 2009 model, or just a 2009 debut of the 2010 model?

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neuronbob

Just got my new C & D in the mail. They mention the 2008 Accord, which is now almost as large as the RL. Not that the RL was that much larger than the previous Accord in the first place, but Honda seems to be getting that their American market simply likes bigger cars.

Will they pass this concept on to Acura for the next RL? More back seat room would be nice, I guess.

Type-S RPh

This is just my .02 but I think that the pics floating around on the net of the "09 TL" are actually pics of the MMC 09 RL which will probably come out in spring 08. I really doubt that there are 09 TL test cars out this soon. Honda never lets them out this soon. The new TL isn't due out until fall 08. What do you guys think?

Chas2

That is a very interesting thought!

SpicyMikey

Interesting, yes. But I don't think so. The 09 RL is rumored to be bigger with new styling. This car looks to have the same proportions as the current TL. Also, I noticed the double exhaust tips like the TL. Looks too sporty for the RL buyer.

Also, did anyone notice the shark fin on the top. Acura's not using On-Star anymore. Could this just be a test mule? Either that or Acura is introducing their own two-way emergency call system in 09

Type-S RPh

I have a hard time believing that Acura will launch a new RL (09) only 4 years after the current one. That is very unHondalike. Plus, didn't the Legend launch after the RL overseas? Honda won't abandon the current car this quickly. Maybe the quad tips are a RL Type-S? Now that would be awesome.

Rob144

I think the car under wraps on TOV is a TL, not an RL. The introduction of a new TL usually lags the Accord by a model year.

I think the current RL will be around for at least another year (2009), if not two without substantial changes. The 2G Legend went from 91-95, and the 1GRL went from 96-2004 with a minor facelift. If they facelift the current RL, then it will probably go even longer.

Rob144