Apple: iPad News and Discussion Thread
01-29-2010, 04:45 PM
#921
Senior Moderator
and the name calling starts. so predictable.
01-29-2010, 04:46 PM
#922
Senior Moderator
hey Sarlacc, you win. here's you're prize. 
you also get 5 gold stars.
you also get 5 gold stars.
01-29-2010, 04:47 PM
#923
The Third Ball
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Go fuck yourself. You've been trying to get me to this point for 2 pages thinking your cute and sly.
I didn't take the bait until now, and since you clearly have nothing worthwhile to say and never really have you can simply eat a big bag of stale dicks.
I didn't take the bait until now, and since you clearly have nothing worthwhile to say and never really have you can simply eat a big bag of stale dicks.
01-29-2010, 04:48 PM
#924
Senior Moderator
no, I haven't been trying to get you or anyone else to any point. I am just sharing my thoughts on the product, which somehow happen to be the thoughts of most people around the world.
01-29-2010, 04:50 PM
#925
:wink:
01-29-2010, 04:52 PM
#926
Go Giants
Really? I thought I didn't have a life...
01-29-2010, 04:57 PM
#928
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01-29-2010, 05:00 PM
#929
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01-29-2010, 05:00 PM
#930
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Yep.
Fact of the matter, the success or failure of this device remains to seen and still has some time to go. And even upon its release it will take time to be seen who does or does not attempt to adopt this device to whatever field. And what apps will be developed and change or not change or certain things are viewed or done.
Thats my piece, thats what I've been trying to say this whole time wrapped up in a nice little paragraph.
I'm done wasting my time on worthless people such as yourself.
01-29-2010, 05:04 PM
#932
Senior Moderator
If I agree with someone, sure, I'll do a 
or a +1, or a 
etc. Do you really think that's an empty-headed response with nothing underneath it?
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it in here, good or bad. In fact, I think that's the whole point of having a thread!
or a +1, or a etc. Do you really think that's an empty-headed response with nothing underneath it?Fact of the matter, the success or failure of this device remains to seen and still has some time to go. And even upon its release it will take time to be seen who does or does not attempt to adopt this device to whatever field. And what apps will be developed and change or not change or certain things are viewed or done.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it in here, good or bad. In fact, I think that's the whole point of having a thread!
01-29-2010, 05:12 PM
#934
Senior Moderator
ewww.... lol
01-29-2010, 05:13 PM
#935
Senior Moderator
hey Sarlacc, if you can't stand the heat..... 
01-29-2010, 05:43 PM
#936
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Back to the matter at hand... there are some people who aren't so black and white. I thought the iPhone was a truly innovative device that changed the landscape of smart phones. The iPod, on the other hand, is a mess and always has been until the Touch. There are much better solutions, but it's extremely popular because it caught on at the right time. Mac computers are pretty good, but are not as popular (hence the market share discussion). There are other apple niche products that are way behind the competition too (Apple TV for example).
My view (IMHO only):
iPhone - Great product, big market, big share
iPod (besides Touch) - Poor product, big market, big share
iMac - Good product, big market, small share
Apple TV - Poor product, small market, medium share
my GUESS for iPad: decent product, small market, big share
I also guess that, just like with iPod, better tablets will come out but they will lag behind because they lack marketing. The big wildcard is Android/Chrome OS. If that takes off, real competition could emerge.
That is what we want: competition. Where I become a part-time "hater" is when a sub-standard Apple product (*cough* iPod) gets so big that they rest on their laurels and don't improve it. Real competition is the only way to push the envelope.
My view (IMHO only):
iPhone - Great product, big market, big share
iPod (besides Touch) - Poor product, big market, big share
iMac - Good product, big market, small share
Apple TV - Poor product, small market, medium share
my GUESS for iPad: decent product, small market, big share
I also guess that, just like with iPod, better tablets will come out but they will lag behind because they lack marketing. The big wildcard is Android/Chrome OS. If that takes off, real competition could emerge.
That is what we want: competition. Where I become a part-time "hater" is when a sub-standard Apple product (*cough* iPod) gets so big that they rest on their laurels and don't improve it. Real competition is the only way to push the envelope.
Last edited by Mockenrue; 01-29-2010 at 05:45 PM.
01-29-2010, 05:59 PM
#937
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And before iSomeone responds with all the improvements of the iPod, yes... new features have been added. But they just miss the mark. A camera for an iPod nano?? Apple completely ignores people that actually care about sound quality and just puts out mass market toy features.
Apple has had a profoundly negative effect on the recording and engineering side of the music business too. If you listen to CDs from the early 90s, they sound MUCH better than the ones today. Why? Because engineers are forced to take all the dynamic range out of recordings to make them sound "louder" on iPods. This is well known in the industry, and I've read interviews with some really depressed engineers that have no real craft anymore.
Not all the blame should go to Apple, but they got such a big market share that they cut back on the important aspects of a player in favor of higher-profit junk. Meanwhile, Sony puts out the excellent X series Walkman, but it's ignored because it doesn't have an i in front of it.
Apple has had a profoundly negative effect on the recording and engineering side of the music business too. If you listen to CDs from the early 90s, they sound MUCH better than the ones today. Why? Because engineers are forced to take all the dynamic range out of recordings to make them sound "louder" on iPods. This is well known in the industry, and I've read interviews with some really depressed engineers that have no real craft anymore.
Not all the blame should go to Apple, but they got such a big market share that they cut back on the important aspects of a player in favor of higher-profit junk. Meanwhile, Sony puts out the excellent X series Walkman, but it's ignored because it doesn't have an i in front of it.
01-29-2010, 06:03 PM
#938
Go Giants
I think comparing the Ipad to the Apple TV is fair....
Why can't we delete music from any Ipod?
Why can't we delete music from any Ipod?
01-29-2010, 06:07 PM
#939
Team Owner
And before iSomeone responds with all the improvements of the iPod, yes... new features have been added. But they just miss the mark. A camera for an iPod nano?? Apple completely ignores people that actually care about sound quality and just puts out mass market toy features.
Apple has had a profoundly negative effect on the recording and engineering side of the music business too. If you listen to CDs from the early 90s, they sound MUCH better than the ones today. Why? Because engineers are forced to take all the dynamic range out of recordings to make them sound "louder" on iPods. This is well known in the industry, and I've read interviews with some really depressed engineers that have no real craft anymore.
Not all the blame should go to Apple, but they got such a big market share that they cut back on the important aspects of a player in favor of higher-profit junk. Meanwhile, Sony puts out the excellent X series Walkman, but it's ignored because it doesn't have an i in front of it.
01-29-2010, 06:10 PM
#941
Go Giants
01-29-2010, 06:14 PM
#942
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Since the netbook debate has died down:
From CNET's article entitled "10 things Netbooks still do better than an iPad":
From CNET's article entitled "10 things Netbooks still do better than an iPad":
Video chat. Most Netbooks, even low-end ones, now have Webcams enabling basic video chat over Skype or any other program. The iPad, however, does not. We wish the iPad had a camera and iChat, especially since it would make the tablet a unique communications device to rival the iPhone. Perhaps cost was a factor, even though most Netbooks manage the feat in a package under $500.
Run Flash. While Steve Jobs called the iPad "the best Web experience you've ever had," there is a big missing piece right now, and that's the whole Web. Browser-based apps and Flash-driven content are huge elements of cloud computing and of many Web sites, and right now it's not even clear whether the iPad can even run Hulu or Netflix. Atom Netbooks can be slow and stuttery when playing Web video, but at least they can.
Programming. Most people aren't programmers, or anything close to it, but most Netbooks do run on a full Windows 7 OS that can be used for programming or modification. For the friendly hackers out there, that's a deal-breaker on the iPad.
Upload photos from a camera. No USB ports on the iPad mean no connecting cameras or other peripherals, which can be a drag if the iPad is meant as a portable computing replacement for bloggers. Netbooks have at least 2 USB ports standard. The iPad does have a dongle to allow photo and video uploads, but when we're on the go we prefer a direct connection.
Store more than 64GB of data. We expected a little more memory on the iPad. Even the most basic Netbook has a 160GB hard drive. Cloud storage can assist with data, but it's still no replacement for onboard capacity.
Play Facebook games. Without the aforementioned Flash, browser games aren't really possible on the iPad. Those looking to play Farmville will have to wait for the App or just flock to a Netbook.
Swapping batteries. Sure, the iPad is slim, attractive and very showy. But its battery is fixed, while a Netbook can not only swap its battery, but upgrade from a three- to a six-cell or more.
Install CD media (or any media other than from an App Store) With the addition of a simple USB DVD/CD-ROM drive, disc-based software can be installed on a Netbook even without an optical drive built in. Netbooks can also install files off USB drives, or via any other input method. The iPad wasn't designed with this flexibility in mind, but it's still nice to be able to do.
Type on your lap. Yes, the iPad has a virtual keyboard, and even a cool keyboard dock that turns the tablet into a quasi-desktop device. But the dock can't be used for lap typing, and the Apple demos didn't make iPad typing seem as comfortable as pounding away on an old-fashioned hinged Netbook. For long-term writing on the go, a physical Netbook keyboard with an attached angled screen still wins.
Upgrade. Netbooks can upgrade their RAM--albeit slightly--and with a little effort, that hard drive can be swapped, too. The iPad is a fixed entity, so there's no going back once you've picked 16, 32, or 64GB.
Run Flash. While Steve Jobs called the iPad "the best Web experience you've ever had," there is a big missing piece right now, and that's the whole Web. Browser-based apps and Flash-driven content are huge elements of cloud computing and of many Web sites, and right now it's not even clear whether the iPad can even run Hulu or Netflix. Atom Netbooks can be slow and stuttery when playing Web video, but at least they can.
Programming. Most people aren't programmers, or anything close to it, but most Netbooks do run on a full Windows 7 OS that can be used for programming or modification. For the friendly hackers out there, that's a deal-breaker on the iPad.
Upload photos from a camera. No USB ports on the iPad mean no connecting cameras or other peripherals, which can be a drag if the iPad is meant as a portable computing replacement for bloggers. Netbooks have at least 2 USB ports standard. The iPad does have a dongle to allow photo and video uploads, but when we're on the go we prefer a direct connection.
Store more than 64GB of data. We expected a little more memory on the iPad. Even the most basic Netbook has a 160GB hard drive. Cloud storage can assist with data, but it's still no replacement for onboard capacity.
Play Facebook games. Without the aforementioned Flash, browser games aren't really possible on the iPad. Those looking to play Farmville will have to wait for the App or just flock to a Netbook.
Swapping batteries. Sure, the iPad is slim, attractive and very showy. But its battery is fixed, while a Netbook can not only swap its battery, but upgrade from a three- to a six-cell or more.
Install CD media (or any media other than from an App Store) With the addition of a simple USB DVD/CD-ROM drive, disc-based software can be installed on a Netbook even without an optical drive built in. Netbooks can also install files off USB drives, or via any other input method. The iPad wasn't designed with this flexibility in mind, but it's still nice to be able to do.
Type on your lap. Yes, the iPad has a virtual keyboard, and even a cool keyboard dock that turns the tablet into a quasi-desktop device. But the dock can't be used for lap typing, and the Apple demos didn't make iPad typing seem as comfortable as pounding away on an old-fashioned hinged Netbook. For long-term writing on the go, a physical Netbook keyboard with an attached angled screen still wins.
Upgrade. Netbooks can upgrade their RAM--albeit slightly--and with a little effort, that hard drive can be swapped, too. The iPad is a fixed entity, so there's no going back once you've picked 16, 32, or 64GB.
01-29-2010, 06:28 PM
#943
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You can put the "blame" for the level wars and compression on the listeners who demanded portable devices with small amplifiers and small speakers. The market spoke clearly that the sound was already good enough (if not even better than needed) and portability was more important.
That said, demand can only put pressure on when the market knows what it's missing. A whole generation of iPod listeners assume that music has to sound like like crap on an mp3 player.
What if Sony, who had the biggest market share in portable music players in the tape and CD days, had developed a good mp3 Walkman at the same time as the iPod. Both products rushed for market share and got 40% each. I guarantee you that sound quality would have been a differentiator, and that both would have put R&D time and effort into maximizing it. But Sony came in late... Apple got their monopoly... and the generation that doesn't care doesn't know why they should.
01-29-2010, 06:31 PM
#944
Senior Moderator
01-29-2010, 06:39 PM
#945
And before iSomeone responds with all the improvements of the iPod, yes... new features have been added. But they just miss the mark. A camera for an iPod nano?? Apple completely ignores people that actually care about sound quality and just puts out mass market toy features.
Apple has had a profoundly negative effect on the recording and engineering side of the music business too. If you listen to CDs from the early 90s, they sound MUCH better than the ones today. Why? Because engineers are forced to take all the dynamic range out of recordings to make them sound "louder" on iPods. This is well known in the industry, and I've read interviews with some really depressed engineers that have no real craft anymore.
Not all the blame should go to Apple, but they got such a big market share that they cut back on the important aspects of a player in favor of higher-profit junk. Meanwhile, Sony puts out the excellent X series Walkman, but it's ignored because it doesn't have an i in front of it.
Apple has had a profoundly negative effect on the recording and engineering side of the music business too. If you listen to CDs from the early 90s, they sound MUCH better than the ones today. Why? Because engineers are forced to take all the dynamic range out of recordings to make them sound "louder" on iPods. This is well known in the industry, and I've read interviews with some really depressed engineers that have no real craft anymore.
Not all the blame should go to Apple, but they got such a big market share that they cut back on the important aspects of a player in favor of higher-profit junk. Meanwhile, Sony puts out the excellent X series Walkman, but it's ignored because it doesn't have an i in front of it.
You don't seem to be bitching when you sold their stock.
01-29-2010, 06:41 PM
#946
Why don't you come up with your own, instead of running around quoting everybody else? To back in here just to fucking argue about yesterday's quotes.
01-29-2010, 06:47 PM
#947
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It's two different halves of my brain. The business/financial side of me is in awe of Apple. I bought more shares of AAPL than anything after the crash. Huge cash reserves + runaway hit product + fanatical recession proof consumer base + massive drop in share price due to the market and Jobs health = no brainer.
But the gadget junkie side of me had to hold my nose while I rooted for the company for the past year.
01-29-2010, 06:52 PM
#948
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Because I'm fascinated by the press coverage of this thing. I've never seen anything like it. I'm not getting emotional at all, and Sarlaac knows it. We've had debates about Apple before, and they've always been friendly and respectful.
01-29-2010, 06:53 PM
#949
01-29-2010, 06:54 PM
#950
Senior Moderator
01-29-2010, 06:56 PM
#951
Needs more Lemon Pledge
01-29-2010, 06:57 PM
#952
Team Owner
What if Sony, who had the biggest market share in portable music players in the tape and CD days, had developed a good mp3 Walkman at the same time as the iPod. Both products rushed for market share and got 40% each. I guarantee you that sound quality would have been a differentiator, and that both would have put R&D time and effort into maximizing it. But Sony came in late... Apple got their monopoly... and the generation that doesn't care doesn't know why they should.
Sony hasn't shown that they have any ability to make portable sound with significantly higher fidelity. Apple didn't make the market; they figured out how to dominate it.
01-29-2010, 07:01 PM
#953
Go Giants
.wav is true cd quality..With fast downloads and large hd's...
01-29-2010, 07:05 PM
#954
Team Owner
01-29-2010, 07:06 PM
#955
What if Sony, who had the biggest market share in portable music players in the tape and CD days, had developed a good mp3 Walkman at the same time as the iPod. Both products rushed for market share and got 40% each. I guarantee you that sound quality would have been a differentiator, and that both would have put R&D time and effort into maximizing it. But Sony came in late... Apple got their monopoly... and the generation that doesn't care doesn't know why they should.
Sony DID put out a walkman for digital music. What did they do? They came out with another format for digital music one for themselves to make money from. And the also came out with spyware/malware along with it. Shit that you got when you place one of their music CD's into to your computer. Malware that locked people's computers up big time.
01-29-2010, 07:08 PM
#956
Team Owner
I have to comment on this as it spoke a little more when Mike repsonded.
Sony DID put out a walkman for digital music. What did they do? They came out with another format for digital music one for themselves to make money from. And the also came out with spyware/malware along with it. Shit that you got when you place one of their music CD's into to your computer. Malware that locked people's computers up big time.
Sony DID put out a walkman for digital music. What did they do? They came out with another format for digital music one for themselves to make money from. And the also came out with spyware/malware along with it. Shit that you got when you place one of their music CD's into to your computer. Malware that locked people's computers up big time.
And they came out with their crappy proprietary SACD format to compete with DVD-Audio and fracture an already small market.
Sony is probably much more to blame for the demise of high fidelity audio than just about anyone else.
01-29-2010, 07:13 PM
#957
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My whole scenario about Sony was "what if". You know, Twilight Zone alternate reality. You could have put any company name in there. My point was that if there was competition early on, sound quality would have been a differentiator.
01-29-2010, 07:15 PM
#958
Go Giants
01-29-2010, 07:15 PM
#959
What if? I was told by my 9th Econ teacher. What if pigs could fly? That would always shut up the class and make us look at what's here. Not the could of's.
01-29-2010, 07:18 PM
#960
Team Owner
