MLB: 2008 Season Discussion Thread...
#761
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Originally Posted by Yumchah
the Cubbies will be back winning in no time.
#762
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Originally Posted by Yumchah
Lotsa thanks to roll out tonight.
First and foremost: Thank-you, Jermaine Dye.
Thank-you also, Todd Jones for serving up that gift...
And last but not least...thank-you to the overrated Indians for finally giving all the early preseason experts who picked them to be a possible division winner something to crow about.
First and foremost: Thank-you, Jermaine Dye.
Thank-you also, Todd Jones for serving up that gift...
And last but not least...thank-you to the overrated Indians for finally giving all the early preseason experts who picked them to be a possible division winner something to crow about.
#764
101 years of heartache...
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Originally Posted by Mokos23
the sox need to trade javier vasquez and jose contreras, they both suck!
#766
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
in 1 week's time; they play the Brewers in a 4 game set. And I have to go to the one game CC pitches in tomorrow
#767
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Series against the Twips coming up...
Yo, IlliNorge...you ready to RUMBLE?!??
Yo, IlliNorge...you ready to RUMBLE?!??
#769
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Shoulda won yesterday but Vanden Hurk is inconsistent..
#772
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Sore much? You guys should've won the WS in 03 but you know how that goes.
#773
Team Owner
Actually the young folks are still hung over from the Heat championship. Apparently so are the Heat players. The old people are doing the Super Bowl Shuffle with their Ditka glasses on. Apparently they're reliving their teenage years, it was so long ago. And don't forget what college your best player went to aka greatest kick returner off all time.
In all seriousness, Heat games were sold out for a long time and the Fish still don't draw. They drew the season after the last WS. But the year after when they dealt Delgado, it was back to emptiness. The retirees don't make it to the stadium since they have to drive.
In all seriousness, Heat games were sold out for a long time and the Fish still don't draw. They drew the season after the last WS. But the year after when they dealt Delgado, it was back to emptiness. The retirees don't make it to the stadium since they have to drive.
#774
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Interesting Article on Manny Ramirez...
Okay...I did NOT know that Manny AVOIDS pitchers so that he can inflate his numbers.
What a disgrace...
Article is from ESPN...
What a disgrace...
Article is from ESPN...
Everyone in the clubhouse knows the names. Joba Chamberlain (twice), Felix Hernandez (twice), Edinson Volquez, Justin Verlander -- pitchers that Manny Ramirez didn't feel quite right to face, be it a knee, a hamstring, his contract or the pitcher's velocity, and those he left for someone else in the Red Sox "family" to face.
Everyone knows what this latest soap opera is about. It's about Manny being only about Manny -- not the team that will have paid him $168 million when this season's over, not "teammates" he leaves to answer for him, not winning or any competitive motivation.
No. Manny being Manny means Manny wanting money. He doesn't want to wait for the Red Sox to exercise the right he gave them for the first $168M, the right to decide at the end of the season whether to pick up his option for 2009 at $20M. The Red Sox fulfilled their end of the contract; now he doesn't want to fulfill his obligation, the same way he watched his teammates fade in 2006.
He knows that this winter -- when he's 36, turning 37 next May -- he has a better chance of scoring the four-year, $100M deal he has told teammates he can get than he will after the 2010 season, when he'll be 38 turning 39. He doesn't want to have to sweat for two years at a measly $20M, and everyone knows that he couldn't care less how he gets that $100M, even if it means sitting out and leaving "family" fighting it out without him.
Manny is right. The Red Sox are tired of him. They are not going to pick up the option for 2009 and spend one more year as his prisoner. What he wants is to go to another team, on which he can put up big numbers for two months and either get that new contract, or go out on the market. Rationally, one would think he could do that in Boston -- first help the Red Sox into the postseason, then hit the market.
But that assumes rationality is in play.
Scott Boras intervened and helped the fine/anger-management solution after Ramirez shoved traveling secretary Jack McCormick. And Boras right now is trying to help Manny understand that it is in his best interest to, in Boras' words, "fulfill his current obligation," and put up the free-agent numbers here in Boston, where he has David Ortiz to take the heat Manny ignores, with five All-Stars in the lineup around him.
Oh, we all hear the analysis of how much the Red Sox need him. That is, if he doesn't bag it, which he was willing to do until John Henry and Tom Werner joined with Theo Epstein and Terry Francona on Friday, enraged at him for skipping Chamberlain, and forced him to take an MRI for the knee affliction known as Felix-Joba-itis.
But over the weekend, when they had one of those rare important series, with the Yankees charging on the outside, Red Sox management and players got a taste of what the series, the pennant and winning mean to him. Manny is right: Enough is enough. But management has to worry that if he gets booed he'll quit. Or that if Manny is criticized, he'll sit.
They are trying to get other teams interested. In the clubhouse, they talk about maybe getting Pat Burrell from the Phillies and reuniting Manny with Charlie Manuel. The Sox have let teams know they'll take care of Ramirez's remaining money if they'll provide young talent, which, considering what Manny can do for the Mets or Phillies or Dodgers, is a nice free-home demonstration; he won't have had time to "tire" of owners who pay him as much as the entire Florida Marlins team.
Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Alex Cora and other players are trying to help Manny focus and play in Boston; he works out with Lowell and Cora regularly, and some days he listens as they try to get him to connect the dots between the concepts of performance and pay. Maybe it'll work, and even if they do not win the World Series, they can rationalize that what they got for eight years and $168M was a pair of world championships and years of sellouts. They can rationalize that Manny essentially was The Fens' version of "Damn Yankees," and they'd probably say it was worth it to sell their souls to end that 86-year thing. But the interest rate on those payments of $20M and their souls is getting a tad steep.
Then the Red Sox move on and try to find another left-field bat. In the meantime, they may have to spend the rest of the year wondering if Manny Ramirez cares to play, whether the opposing pitcher is on his wish list.
Manny clearly has decided that he has already fulfilled his obligation to the first eight-year contract, and wants the next $100M right now. In the real world, this is a form of blackmail. In the clubhouse, where Francona and his teammates have allowed him to live by his own rules knowing that his production is Cooperstown material, many are exhausted by his disdain for the game, for winning and for any form of authority.
What Henry, Werner and Larry Lucchino should do is call a press conference and announce extensions for Francona and Epstein for all they have had to swallow because Manny Ramirez can hit. Then they can watch and see if a 36-year-old DH whose production in 2007 and 2008 has fallen below his 1998-2006 levels will go out and prove he's worth four years and $100M and ride off into the sunset snubbing his nose at the people who paid him $168M.
If he doesn't understand that these two months are vital to his next $100M, fine. If there isn't a reasonable trade to be made, fine.
After years of his public defenders rationalizing that the Red Sox can't win without him, if they can't win with him, so be it. At least the Red Sox can feel clean and sober.
A group of Red Sox watched the Yankees take early batting practice Friday, and they complimented the way Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu and Johnny Damon show up every day. "Say what you want about A-Rod," said one, "but he plays every day and he plays his behind off."
Rodriguez opted out of his contract after an MVP season. What Ramirez is doing is trying to opt out in the middle of his contract during the season.
What the Red Sox hope is that he listens to Boras and his teammates and fulfills the obligation he signed. And then there's a train, either way, leaving every day. And buyer beware of a man who chooses to be judged by numbers and salary, with no regard for character or integrity.
Everyone knows what this latest soap opera is about. It's about Manny being only about Manny -- not the team that will have paid him $168 million when this season's over, not "teammates" he leaves to answer for him, not winning or any competitive motivation.
No. Manny being Manny means Manny wanting money. He doesn't want to wait for the Red Sox to exercise the right he gave them for the first $168M, the right to decide at the end of the season whether to pick up his option for 2009 at $20M. The Red Sox fulfilled their end of the contract; now he doesn't want to fulfill his obligation, the same way he watched his teammates fade in 2006.
He knows that this winter -- when he's 36, turning 37 next May -- he has a better chance of scoring the four-year, $100M deal he has told teammates he can get than he will after the 2010 season, when he'll be 38 turning 39. He doesn't want to have to sweat for two years at a measly $20M, and everyone knows that he couldn't care less how he gets that $100M, even if it means sitting out and leaving "family" fighting it out without him.
Manny is right. The Red Sox are tired of him. They are not going to pick up the option for 2009 and spend one more year as his prisoner. What he wants is to go to another team, on which he can put up big numbers for two months and either get that new contract, or go out on the market. Rationally, one would think he could do that in Boston -- first help the Red Sox into the postseason, then hit the market.
But that assumes rationality is in play.
Scott Boras intervened and helped the fine/anger-management solution after Ramirez shoved traveling secretary Jack McCormick. And Boras right now is trying to help Manny understand that it is in his best interest to, in Boras' words, "fulfill his current obligation," and put up the free-agent numbers here in Boston, where he has David Ortiz to take the heat Manny ignores, with five All-Stars in the lineup around him.
Oh, we all hear the analysis of how much the Red Sox need him. That is, if he doesn't bag it, which he was willing to do until John Henry and Tom Werner joined with Theo Epstein and Terry Francona on Friday, enraged at him for skipping Chamberlain, and forced him to take an MRI for the knee affliction known as Felix-Joba-itis.
But over the weekend, when they had one of those rare important series, with the Yankees charging on the outside, Red Sox management and players got a taste of what the series, the pennant and winning mean to him. Manny is right: Enough is enough. But management has to worry that if he gets booed he'll quit. Or that if Manny is criticized, he'll sit.
They are trying to get other teams interested. In the clubhouse, they talk about maybe getting Pat Burrell from the Phillies and reuniting Manny with Charlie Manuel. The Sox have let teams know they'll take care of Ramirez's remaining money if they'll provide young talent, which, considering what Manny can do for the Mets or Phillies or Dodgers, is a nice free-home demonstration; he won't have had time to "tire" of owners who pay him as much as the entire Florida Marlins team.
Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Alex Cora and other players are trying to help Manny focus and play in Boston; he works out with Lowell and Cora regularly, and some days he listens as they try to get him to connect the dots between the concepts of performance and pay. Maybe it'll work, and even if they do not win the World Series, they can rationalize that what they got for eight years and $168M was a pair of world championships and years of sellouts. They can rationalize that Manny essentially was The Fens' version of "Damn Yankees," and they'd probably say it was worth it to sell their souls to end that 86-year thing. But the interest rate on those payments of $20M and their souls is getting a tad steep.
Then the Red Sox move on and try to find another left-field bat. In the meantime, they may have to spend the rest of the year wondering if Manny Ramirez cares to play, whether the opposing pitcher is on his wish list.
Manny clearly has decided that he has already fulfilled his obligation to the first eight-year contract, and wants the next $100M right now. In the real world, this is a form of blackmail. In the clubhouse, where Francona and his teammates have allowed him to live by his own rules knowing that his production is Cooperstown material, many are exhausted by his disdain for the game, for winning and for any form of authority.
What Henry, Werner and Larry Lucchino should do is call a press conference and announce extensions for Francona and Epstein for all they have had to swallow because Manny Ramirez can hit. Then they can watch and see if a 36-year-old DH whose production in 2007 and 2008 has fallen below his 1998-2006 levels will go out and prove he's worth four years and $100M and ride off into the sunset snubbing his nose at the people who paid him $168M.
If he doesn't understand that these two months are vital to his next $100M, fine. If there isn't a reasonable trade to be made, fine.
After years of his public defenders rationalizing that the Red Sox can't win without him, if they can't win with him, so be it. At least the Red Sox can feel clean and sober.
A group of Red Sox watched the Yankees take early batting practice Friday, and they complimented the way Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu and Johnny Damon show up every day. "Say what you want about A-Rod," said one, "but he plays every day and he plays his behind off."
Rodriguez opted out of his contract after an MVP season. What Ramirez is doing is trying to opt out in the middle of his contract during the season.
What the Red Sox hope is that he listens to Boras and his teammates and fulfills the obligation he signed. And then there's a train, either way, leaving every day. And buyer beware of a man who chooses to be judged by numbers and salary, with no regard for character or integrity.
#776
101 years of heartache...
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unexpected result last night, we left Miller Park with my W flag waving. Oh, and Brewers fans are seriously stuck in the 90s. "Hey, Cubs fan, does the W stand for WUSSY, or WHIMP?"
#777
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by Doom878
In all seriousness, Heat games were sold out for a long time and the Fish still don't draw. They drew the season after the last WS. But the year after when they dealt Delgado, it was back to emptiness. The retirees don't make it to the stadium since they have to drive.
...i believe your comment about the stadium's emptiness, tickets were ridiculously easy to get
i'm sitting behind home plate all three games, and i'll be decked out in Cubs gear ...i'll be sure to post my findings in your "what happens if I wear my jersey in your arena/city?" thread
#778
Benchwarmer
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Series against the Twips coming up...
Yo, IlliNorge...you ready to RUMBLE?!??
Yo, IlliNorge...you ready to RUMBLE?!??
I was worried that our offense only put up one TD, luckily the defense didn't allow anyone to cross the 50-yard line.
#779
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by IlliNorge
Well, one of us is ready. :wink:
I was worried that our offense only put up one TD, luckily the defense didn't allow anyone to cross the 50-yard line.
I was worried that our offense only put up one TD, luckily the defense didn't allow anyone to cross the 50-yard line.
How many games back are they again?
#780
Team Owner
Originally Posted by paz840
hey doom, i'll be down there in a couple weeks for the Cubs series
...i believe your comment about the stadium's emptiness, tickets were ridiculously easy to get
i'm sitting behind home plate all three games, and i'll be decked out in Cubs gear ...i'll be sure to post my findings in your "what happens if I wear my jersey in your arena/city?" thread
...i believe your comment about the stadium's emptiness, tickets were ridiculously easy to get
i'm sitting behind home plate all three games, and i'll be decked out in Cubs gear ...i'll be sure to post my findings in your "what happens if I wear my jersey in your arena/city?" thread
#782
101 years of heartache...
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Originally Posted by paz840
...are brooms allowed?
#784
on to the next one...
Originally Posted by Yumchah
How many games back are they again?
I've said it before, I'll say it again...you guys just cannot win in the dome this year. I don't know why, but the sox have been pretty pathetic here all year.
So, the sox better enjoy their paltry lead while they can... it'll be gone before they leave God's country.
#785
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
^ THE LEAD'LL HOLD!
#787
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Scottman111
#788
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
unexpected result last night, we left Miller Park with my W flag waving. Oh, and Brewers fans are seriously stuck in the 90s. "Hey, Cubs fan, does the W stand for WUSSY, or WHIMP?"
#789
Let's Go Pens
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As a life long Braves fan I must say that trading Mark Teixeira was a bullshit move and would have never happened in previous years regardless of the current standings. I understand that the season is pretty much a moot point by now... Regardless of the excuses about injuries we just don't compete for 9 innings and don't even deserve to be as close as 7 games...atleast the Nationals play nine full innings and just don't have the talent to really compete in the division. This trade is a sign of waiving the white flag but giving up like this is complete bullshit. Baseball is just one of those sports that anything can happen and giving up is just not acceptable.. Giving up is exactly what the Braves have just done. I have never questioned the Braves moves in the past but this one has struck a serious nerve. Wren says this is a move to build for the future... What future? Teixeira could have been our first baseman for many years to come... Sure he might have been worth 20mil a year in a different uniform but Tex wanted to finish his career as a Brave and although it's a business I really think he would have given the Braves the break the needed for payroll...
Let's not forget the Braves didn't even offer Andrew a contract last year and let him leave for LA (Obviously he has been on of the worst players in the league this season... but things could have been different with him in a Braves Uniform and I again thing he would have given the Braves a massive discount...but the Braves slapped him in the face for his years of service and didn't even offer him a contract....yet they Bring back Tom Glavine...what a joke...
I think i'm done ranting... Thanks for listening and for those fans of the Mets and Phils, enjoy the race.. it's going to be a great one!
Is it hockey season yet? Let's Go Pens!
Let's not forget the Braves didn't even offer Andrew a contract last year and let him leave for LA (Obviously he has been on of the worst players in the league this season... but things could have been different with him in a Braves Uniform and I again thing he would have given the Braves a massive discount...but the Braves slapped him in the face for his years of service and didn't even offer him a contract....yet they Bring back Tom Glavine...what a joke...
I think i'm done ranting... Thanks for listening and for those fans of the Mets and Phils, enjoy the race.. it's going to be a great one!
Is it hockey season yet? Let's Go Pens!
#790
is learning to moonwalk i
It's still only in the 6th inning, but Lackey is flirting with a no-hitter against Boston
Hopefully no one caught this before the edit He just walked Pedroia
and yes, I know that smilies don't disappear in white text
Hopefully no one caught this before the edit He just walked Pedroia
and yes, I know that smilies don't disappear in white text
Last edited by moeronn; 07-29-2008 at 07:32 PM.
#794
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by IlliNorge
:ib"Who is still in first place ....."doublemiddlefingers:
TWO OUTTA FOUR!
#795
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
On the other hand...whatta game pitched by the Big Z.
Brewers = Zambranowned
Brewers = Zambranowned
#796
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Braves deal Teixeira to Angels for Kotchman, minor leaguer
To go with Evader's post above...here's the trade details between the Angels and Braves...
Story here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3510042
Story here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3510042
#797
101 years of heartache...
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Originally Posted by Mokos23
did they try to pick a fight with you?
-"Man, it must suck waking up everyday and realizing you're in MILWAUKEE, WI!"
-"Seriously, name me ONE thing your town has achieved...exactly"
-"Enjoy the 4 hour trip to a city 3 times less the size of yours to cheer for that 'football team' of yours. Moochers!"
-"Come talk to me when Hockey season rolls around...oh what's that?"
-"The only good thing in your town (Miller Brewing) is now leaving town, and coming to MINE"
-"Sausage Race, huh? In Chicago, we call that C*** on the cookie"
AND some of their idiotic statements:
-my friend and I were carrying my W flag on the way back to the car, cheering as we walked. Some lady comes up and says: "what does the W stand for, WUSSY?"
-"Honestly, do you really feel good here wasting your time? Why do you come here?
because I'm a diehard Cubs fan who enjoys watching his team play, and assuming gas prices don't go higher than $7.50, these tickets are cheaper and easier to get since you guys barely sell out.
"Well we've sold out the past 18 games in a row, so back off, buddy"
"We may have lost the division last year, but we're going to win it this year (silence) B!tch!"
Too funny to type it all out. It was quite fun.
#798
Team Owner
iTrader: (4)
Yankees acquire Pudge
Yankees get Pudge from Tigers
07/30/2008 4:29 PM ET By Bryan Hoch / MLB.com
NEW YORK -- The Yankees acquired catcher Ivan Rodriguez from the Tigers on Wednesday in exchange for right-handed reliever Kyle Farnsworth.
The Yankees were in need of a catcher since Jorge Posada decided to undergo season-ending surgery on his throwing shoulder. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
07/30/2008 4:29 PM ET By Bryan Hoch / MLB.com
NEW YORK -- The Yankees acquired catcher Ivan Rodriguez from the Tigers on Wednesday in exchange for right-handed reliever Kyle Farnsworth.
The Yankees were in need of a catcher since Jorge Posada decided to undergo season-ending surgery on his throwing shoulder. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
#800
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs
I always liked Pudge.