not to mention xbox360 != hd-dvd. I am guessing very few people actually bought the additional drive

 

If MS was smart, they would have engineered a drive that worked on computers and your xbox so you get more bang for your buck. people would have bought into even more knowing that it can work anywhere. And on top of that, all that extra money for them could help offset the cost of production of the 360 which they took a loss on anyway.

 

the only reason the HD-DVD drive isn't straight up plug and play on PC's is DRM issues.

i don't think they could get a pass on lossless connection to a PC without any DRM protection.

 

Late last month, executive shake-ups at Sony prompted one Japanese analyst to make a bold prediction: Sony was moving out of the gaming-hardware business and focusing solely on software. "I cannot now imagine a PlayStation 4," said Nomura Securities' Yuta Sakurai.

Sony was quick to rebut the claim, with a rep telling GameSpot, "I think it would be rather shortsighted for anyone to predict there might not be a next generation of PlayStation product."

As for when to expect a new Sony console, one exec claims that the company's fans shouldn't expect the next PlayStation any sooner than the typical console life cycle allows. Sony Computer Entertainment Europe vice president of technology Paul Holman reportedly told Australian tech site Smarthouse that Sony will launch a PlayStation 4, but not any sooner than 2010.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162787.html (full article)

 

Over 100,000 so far. Which is great penetration for a peripheral on the market for such a short time that utilizes a new and expensive technology with very little content.

 

got a link to that?

either way, sony has, what, 400,000+ blu ray players out there, ps3 alone? that number is gonna go wayyyy up the next couple years

 

I believe your thinking on this is a bit off. Most of the people buying PS3 are buying them for the gameplaying aspect of the system. The fact that it has a bluray player is ancillary. More or less an after thought to gamers, and more of a reason for them to be angered by the increased price tag. Where as the 360 is a game machine that came out a year. For people who invested the money into the machine 6 mos - 1 year ago can pretty much write off an extra 200 bucks to be given the choice to have a optional next generation media player. There in lies the difference.

 

I believe your thinking is off. If you buy a ps3, are you then going to go out and by an HD-DVD player? of course not. For the most part, in every house sony puts a ps3 in, they are adding a notch to blu-ray. the same can't be said for xbox360 and hd-dvd

 

I think you are misunderstanding me. Just because the sony goes out with a Bluray player doesnt mean all those people are going run out and drop 40 dollars a disc and start watching bluray movies. They have bluray because Sony forced them to have it. Anyone who goes out an buys an HD-DVD player for their Xbox has all the intentions of watching movies on it.

 

some reading for you guys regarding this BluRay/HD-DVD issue:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061208/...s3_bluray_dc_3

 

Good points from both of you.

Fact remains, 400,000 units is not all that many... especially when a decent percentage of those will never use the BluRay functionality (households where children are the primary users of the PS3 for instance).

I'd bet only 50% ever intend to use their BluRay player, whereas with the Xbox add-on and stand-alone players (where HD-DVD is also winning) everyone who buys one intends to use it to watch movies.

 

That pretty much corroborates what I was attempting to say.

I feel really bad for people employed to the Blu-ray Disc Association. It must be like fighting an uphill battle everyday. They have to watch all the first run movies they pressed in the mpeg2 format and sit there and try and convince themselves its a better format.

 

That article nearly brings up a good point too. Perhaps the biggest competition to both formats is not each other, but downloadable media like HD-movies over Xbox Live.

There isn't a stark contrast between the 720p movies coming off Xbox Live and the 1080p HD-DVDs. It is hard to get excited about an expensive media format when you can now download HD movies on the cheap without ever leaving your house.

Not to mention the amount of ""free"" HD movies I can download on my Mac & stream to my Xbox

 

You'd have to be an idiot to not have seen the train wreck that was approaching when those movies were being mastered in MPEG-2.

BluRay completely fumbled their opportunity to get the support of early adopters with that move.

 

P.S., lemme guess... Sarlacc? Naa, soo far too civil.

Whoever ya are, welcome back

 

To be slightly fair to Bluray. HD-DVD is is primarily winning because it won the race to getting to the store shelves first. Once Bluray players finally made it out they were not helped by the fact they were pressing films in the archaic mpeg2 codec. These movies honestly don't look much better then watching a DVD on a really good upconverting player that probably costs near as much as Bluray, but doesn't force you buy a whole new library. The fact Bluray has since started pressing discs in a newer format is almost too little too late. First impressions being the ones that count Bluray took a hit right out of gate even though it was the superior format on paper. One more small thing to look at is the lack of blue diodes to get into players. With the exception a 2x speed Bluray player in the PS3 Sony still has yet to get their own stand alone players to market.

Now, I used to be a huge Sony fan. No more. I also own a Xbox360 which I bought almost a year ago. It is a wash to me to spend $200 to buy an HD-DVD player and use my netflix membership to watch movies without spending money rebuying my existing DVD library (which is quite large.) Not to mention if HD-DVD fails, which both formats still may very well not survive, then I'm out $200 bucks. big deal. I think the HD-DVD camp has been playing their hand very well compared to Sony.

 

Same here, I spent $159 on the HD-DVD add-on, it came with one disc, I paid $19.99 for another... and everything since I've gotten through Netflix for pennies on the dollar.

It's a no brainer.

 

They created their own mess.

The whole world knew it was a mistake to master next-gen discs in MPEG-2. That was just dumb.

Then Sony goes ahead and hordes the limited supply of blue lasers for their PS3, which - other then the marketing benefits - is totally the wrong place for a 2x BluRay drive.

Because of all those mistakes, they made it to market in 2nd place. Dumb mistake #892892.

They couldn't have messed up what could have otherwise been a decent product anymore.

 

Couple this with the question of how many people are actually set up to watch 1080P? Most are probably watching 720P or 1080i, probably 720P. Xbox Live has a good jump on HD movies to dowload. iTunes will hopefully follow soon. The fact that they have the forthought to add HDMI to the upcoming "iTV" only sets us up for whats to come. I bought Tombstone on iTunes to test out the quality. I watching through S-Video on my TV and I gotta say the quality wasn't terrible. Some milky blacks, some artifacting here and there. But overall not bad and it will only get better. I think the real winner will be online media.

 

Sony has been making the same mistakes and having the same "screw the consumer" live by our sword attitude for the last 20 years. I'm sick of it personally. I have spent a lot of time watching both formats. Now, I don't know which Bluray movies have been mastered in the newer codec, but I'm pretty sure they aren't being shown at Best Buy or any other home theater showroom. The noise, the artifacted in the background with shallow focus. It just doesn't look good for a "next generation" format. Now, what i have seen of HD-DVD, especially on the LED DLP...looks top notch.

 

As has already been stated, most people who buy a PS3 are buying it for playing games, everyone who buys the 360 HD-DVD player is going to use it to watch movies.

But there are +7 million 360's sold so far. Are those people going to spend $800 for a Blu-Ray player or $200 or less for a HD-DVD player add-on for their 360?

 

Plus it's only a matter of time before the HD-DVD add-on is $99 or less.

HD-DVD drives cost no more to produce than regular DVD drives. Right now we're paying early adopter fees. Once early demand dwindles, the average cost of entry will tumble.

BluRay drives are expensive to manufacturer and will be until both supply & demand improve.

 

yes, 400,000 isn't that many. but that is only a fraction of what sony will release in the year to come.

next, lets say your 50% figure is correct. that is 200,000 people using the blu-ray, where 100,000 hd add-ons to the xbox have been sold. plus, I highly doubt that the HD-dvd add-on is going to be even half of the future PS3 sales.



It is true that the people with an xbox aren't going to go out and buy a blu-ray player. however, a big majority won't go out and buy the HD-dvd player either. I still don't see why you don't think the people with a PS3 will use the blu-ray player for things other than games. The blu-ray discs are a little more expensive than DVDs, but not by that much, and the prices will go down when people start buying them.

Overall, I really have no preference to which form of media wins. However, concerning consoles, I really don't think that you can argue the xbox360 is helping HD-DVD more than the PS3 will help the blu-ray.

 

Look at how long it take for the prices of Sony's propietary media to go down though.

If there's one thing that has always deterred me from buying a Sony camera for instace, it's the damn requirement of using a memorystick. Same goes for olympus and the xd format. Propietary media sucks, case closed.

 

it's too bad they didn't make it so the PS3 also plays the MiniDisc

 

Blu-ray discs are quite different than sony's memory sticks...you MIGHT have had half an arguement if only sony productions were blu-ray format.

and its proprietary

 

Who cares? Its still comes down to the fact that most people who buy a PS3 to gameplay arent going to make the investment to sit down and buy blu-ray movies for it. A kid or young adult is going to want to spend their money on a $70 game before a $40 movie. Now, the people who pay for the HD-DVD drive...its a given they are willing to spend on the movies as well as the games. I also think an older demographic tends to buy the xbox meaning more income to spend. I could be wrong on this, but thats my thought.

The movies avg $35-40....tell me how thats not much more expensive when a DVD costs $15-20. And I don't forsee prices coming down any time soon. DVD isn't going anywhere for the time being, and both HDs formats are going to retain a higher price tag to 1) differentiate the formats 2) Its a videophile format. Until there is a clear winner if any winner at all, its nothing more then a high end videophile format. And that is always more expensive because less units are moved.

I don't think anyone is arguing this. What we are saying is that people who buy the hd-dvd player are buying to watch movies. People who buy the PS3 aren't necessarily buying it for anything other then gaming.

 

Not really. Why? because Samsung makes Bluray players? So far they are the only ones. Because the studios are supporting both formats? Most studios supported HD-DVD first and didn't want to touch Bluray. Because of the PS3 many changed their minds (and I bet they are now regretting it.) Universal Studios has still not bowed to Bluray and only produces HD-DVD. Other studios such as Warner has been putting more effort into HD-DVD and just now saying they will work to bring out more Bluray.

Bluray has been an afterthought to all except the companies who supported it from the very beginning.

 

blu-ray movies costing 35-40, get out of here. that is pure bullshit. the prices aren't that far off from DVD, and when they get even closer, everyone with a ps3 will start buying them instead of regular dvds. I have seen very few over $30, and none of those were in an actual store. maybe the "list" price is up there, but they all sell for under 30. And when DVDs were $20+, people were still buying the hell out of them

and even now, a good portion of the people with HDTVs are probably buying blu ray already.

And I understand that everyone buying the HD-DVD add-on is going to use it for HD movies. However, with all the people who have the blu-ray automatically when they buy a PS3, there are going to be more people using the PS3 for blu-ray than xbox360 for HD-DVD

 

PS3 aside, what kind of dvd player do you think someone that doesn't want to buy a PS3 would buy knowing that HD-DVD prices are lower as of right now which will also go lower as HD-DVD players and DVD hit the market. Fine Blu-ray discs will go down in price, but so will the HD-DVD format discs.

 

Both HD-DVD and BluRay are in the same ballpark cost wise looking at best buy. I don't think consumers really want to pay for either right now. Not when they have perfectly good DVD collections at home, and the same movie is $10 cheaper on DVD. Videophile format...it means only people who truly care about the best quality image aren't buying into the format.

Yeah, no. $600-$1000 for a player. No one is running out to buy into Bluray. At $400-600 for HD-DVD its certainly a cheaper option, has more titles, and a better codecs on all their discs including launch titles compared to Bluray. And HD-DVD has combo discs with DVD versions on the same disc, and HD-DVD players are backwards compatible.

But again. I dont think people are running out to buy this either.

You have no proof of this anymore then I do when I say neither format is going to win in the end.

 

Here are some screenshots I took from cruthfield on their pricings of HD and Blu Ray players.

I didn't realize there was such a huge difference!



And here are the two players they say to "add to cart" to see the latest price:






HD DVD players kill the Blu Ray players cost by a long shot IMO.

 

It was known since the start that Bluray costs more to produce then HD-DVD. Mainly because of the blue diode, which is in such short supply right now. Another reason costs arent coming down anytime soon.

Biggest reason most studios went with HD-DVD was because of the cheaper cost to press the discs. This was all when both formats were still on paper and Bluray looked like the better choice. It's just Sony's dropping of the ball as usual that it just so happened that HD-DVD ended up coming out gate first, and looking much better in every respect because of using the better codec.

Look at Sony. They have to use all their companies to offset their costs in the gaming world. I'm sure MS does as well, but something tells me not as much as Sony. Sony can breath easy and sigh relief because Casino Royale is such a huge hit for them and bringing in lots of profit. They don't feel the sting as bad because of it.

 

Bottom line in business though is that if Microsoft and Sony were losing lots of money in their video game divisions they would dump that part of their company right away. They make lots of money on the games because of licensing fees and some in-house designed games (especially microsoft). Even Nintendo is probably making most of their money from the handheld gaming division and not console. However, they use a console system to generate more brand loyalty.

I do not think that the console business is as much of a money sucker than we seem to make it out to be. It is not like Sony is forced to make consoles, but instead they find it financially prudent to continue producing them and setting aside the resources to develop new ones, which alone should give some insight in how beneficial the systems are for the companies.

 

Sony is projected to lose 1.4 billion over the next fiscal year in their video game division.

Sounds like a money sucker to me.

 

Both companies lose money in the beginning in hopes of pulling in a profit over the long haul. Some budgets of video games rival those of feature films. These companies use their other divisions to offset the cost of their loss, such as the huge success of Casino Royale. MS probably has a much easier time offsetting the cost because all their companies save the Xbox always pulls a profit. Sony has their hands in riskier pots, and a track record of blundering proprietary media.

And nintendo is the smartest group of the bunch. They pull in a profit of $50 for every Wii sold. 600,000 units sold out first say of release, you do the math.

 

What does this have to do with anything? Like I mentioned before, I am basing everything purely on what the consoles are doing for the formats.


Again, I am talking about PS3 vs. xbox360, not what the rest of the people are going to do. I wouldn't buy either player right now...I meant that a good amount of the people who have an HDTV AND a PS3 are using blu-ray.


Come on now...Do you really think that more people are gonna buy the HD-DVD add-on than people with a PS3 using the blu-ray? That is just crazy. The people with a PS3 have a blu-ray player at their disposal. all they have to do is go out and buy movies. as the prices drop a bit, and the selections get bigger, you can't tell me that a lot of those people aren't going to start buying blu-ray.

Look at that compared to the people with an xbox360 that will have to go buy the $200 add-on which costs at least half to two-thirds what the xbox cost alone, and then go buy the movies.

I really don't think you can argue that more people are going to use HD-DVD with the xbox360 than blu-ray with the PS3...

Not to mention some peope with just the xbox360 are more likely to go buy a blu-ray player(hell, maybe even a PS3 to use as a blu-ray player) than someone with a PS3 buying an HD-DVD player

 

No you weren't. You were speculating people with HDTVs are probably running out right now and buying bluray. That is a generalization with nothing to do with strictly the video game world.

HA HA HA. How did you manage to walk away with all that when the only thing I stated was I still predict BOTH format to fail in the long run.

But lets assume:

I never predicted or said anything about sales numbers on either camp.

Most people will probably watch Talledega Nights that comes with the PS3 and say...OK I'm done. You are assuming the normal consumer is even educated on HD and its formats. Or how set up their televisions properly. A lot of people have bought HDTVs and made the statement of how it looks terrible. Why? Because they don't know what they are doing. Nor do they care to get educated about how.

Bringing the cost of either system into this argument is just plain ridiculous. A PS3 is $600. An Xbox with HD-DVD is $600. It works out to be the same. The difference is that people who spent $400 on a xbox 6-12 months ago wont feel as big of a sting to their wallet buying the HD-DVD player now.

And how how HOW are predicting that xbox360 owners are more likely to go Bluray? Where is your data? Where is your proof? Right now the reviews and articles are coming in and guess what? Bluray is on the shortend of the stick.

In the end, the reality is that regular old NTSC DVD is still outselling either one by a vast amount.

 

before I give my just wanted you to know I do own both consoles... and YES, I do have the HD-DVD add on...

with that said... apparently, you didn't read the article I posted yesterday... It makes a lot of sense... I'm sure if the PS3 consumers had the choice to NOT have the Bluray feature... but save $200... TRUST ME most people would've opted for that...

 

ok dude, whoever you are, you really need to learn how to read. When i said "and even now, a good portion of the people with HDTVs are probably buying blu ray already." I meant the people with a PS3. don't try to tell me I meant otherwise...

and if all you are saying is that both formats will fail, wtf are you doing argueing. If you haven't got the point already, I am saying that the PS3 is doing more for the blu-ray format than the xbox is doing for the HD-DVD format.

What does this have to do about anything??

and LOL at what you said about cost. you really do not understand anything I am saying.

again, are you fucking retarded? I said that xbox360 users are more likely to buy a ps3 or blu-ray player than a PS3 user is to buy an HD-DVD player. I'll walk you through it...Xbox user is play his games just fine. He wants the new technology. He can choose HD-DVD or blu-ray. Yes, HD-DVD would be cheaper, but there is a chance he might opt for blu-ray. On the other hand, PS3 user is playing his games. He wants the new technology of movies. Do you think he is going to go buy an HD-DVD player when he already have a blu-ray player? Which scenario is more likely to happen? A child could figure that out.

and iseater, I am sure you are right. Too bad that is not the case. therefore, the people with the ps3 are much more likely to use the blu-ray over buying an hd-dvd player...