justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the corolla hatch with the larger grille opening is sexy

oonowindoo

Sales # talks. If Lexus can sell similar #s as the Germans, then yes they still are. If they can't, then everything else is not relevant.

and what does the Grille do exactly? What is the bigger reason? Instead of the front bumper, they might as well call it the front grille.

oonowindoo

Majofo

I blame Audi, they started it.
Toyota / Lexus just went full derpina on it

RPhilMan1

You think that looks good justn??? Where's the red text?

Ugh.

At least when Audi did it, it actually looked pretty good.

Remember when the Evo X went to a large grille?

oonowindoo

Anyways, people who are interested in buying Lexus and Toyota will buy them regardless because they buy for fuel economy and reliability. If they are trying to attract young buyers with those mouth open things.... it is not working.

In more interesting news, i was browsing BMW's website and realized 2019 M2 Competition package ditched N55 and got M3/M4's engine with 2 turbos
at $60k fully loaded, that is cheap and scary fast. Why bother even offering the M240i at almost the same price (fully loaded)

Yumcha

Depends on the demographics. Many folk that are of the Millennial gen I know LOVE Lexus. It's Lexus-this and Lexus-that.

oonowindoo

Really? Usually all the i know who bought Lexus are all over 50...

Yumcha

Maybe it's a California thing. Plenty of Lexrus owned by the non-old where I'm at or where I'm headed in a few days: Richmond, BC.

Rick_TL-S

The spindle was introduced on the 2012 GS in 2011, and made its way onto others in 2012. Let's go back....
2017:
BMW - 305,685
Lexus - 305,229

2016:
BMW - 313,174
Lexus - 331,228

2015:
BMW - 346,023
Lexus - 344,601

2014:
BMW - 339,738
Lexus - 311,389

2013:
BMW - 309,280
Lexus - 273,847

2012:
BMW - 281,460
Lexus - 244,162

2011 was the year of the tsunami that affected Lexus' lots. Were Lexus sales higher than BMW before 2011? Yes. But it should be noted that 2010-2008, BMW was only behind 10-20,000 units. From 2007-2004, BMW was behind around 30-40,000 units. They were making up ground on Lexus. Did the spindle affect the first few years? Possibly. But you said was and judging by the last 3 years, there is no was anymore; Lexus is right with BMW in an age where the spindle has remained and evolved even more on to every model.


Green is Mercedes, red is BMW, yellow is Lexus, blue is Audi, purple is Porsche, all based on 2010-2017 sales.

The grille is part of the brand's redesign to appeal to a new market, to go from a conservative design to a much more controversial one. Again, it follows Cadillac's success to shake an image of an old man car to something edgier, more appealing to the market.
Says the people who go by assumption based off their own opinions? "I don't like the grille. It obviously doesn't work".

I work in a Lexus store, I see the people who sign the paperwork. The people buying the cars are definitely in line with the markets their after. We've had young guys buy IS', guys in their 30's buying GS', and older, more successful folks in the LS'.

oonowindoo

We know you work for Lexus and that is why you are biased, which is fine. we all are.
I also know there are some younger buyers for IS and 30s to buy GS. There are also people in their 20s buying LS.... does that make it a car that targets younger crowd?

I know how you got those #s. SUVs are different, even Acura sells them in bunches.

Let's compare the cars #s

2017
Lexus - 104,290
BMW - 202,201

You can throw anything on the RX and it will sell.... But if you start looking at IS and GS's number, you will see it is pretty much dead... almost at Acura's level.

If you say Lexus is still up there with the Germans, then Acura is too... MDX and RDX are carrying the entire brand, where RX and NX are carrying Lexus.

How many IS did Lexus sell last month? 1000? So yes, if Lexus wants to please younger crowd,,, unless you think younger crowd = RX350, then it is not working. There is no assumption, it is #s.

and i dont know what kind of training materials Lexus provided, but last time i checked Cadillac did not throw predator's mouth on every car they sold... their design is still rather conservative.

Rick_TL-S

You stated sales numbers, I gave them to you. Now you want to break them down to model specifics to, hilariously, the one category you can be right in? Which ends up meaning that where BMW doubles Lexus sales in cars, that just means Lexus doubles BMW in SUV sales, in a region where Crossover/SUV sales made up for 67% of the 2017 market.

Congratulations, you didn't prove anything except Lexus knows how to properly focus its models in this market.

Rick_TL-S

Since you insist on editing.
And? That doesn't change the demographic Lexus is trying to entice with those models. It also doesn't change the fact you stated sales #s without specifics and decided to go after 1 specific market when the results didn't line up with what your statement.
This is cherry picking once again. Let me know when Acura's SUV line up is strong enough to pick up the rest of its line up & match any of the Germany brands overall.
Why do you think they're building a UX? And I guess it's easy to not make mention of the NX that was up 8.1% and is marketed towards a younger demographic.
I didn't know it was this possible to be purposely dumb about what a re-design means.

oonowindoo

I dont think seperating SUV and car are Model specific..... we have been doing that for years with Acura to see if they are sucessful or not.
If you asked Is Lexus scuessful as an SUV company, then yes.

Well if you think Lexus is successful in appealing to younger crowd, then good for you. There are still plenty of people here think Acura is extremely successful too. Nothing new.

If you are saying Lexus's new design is trying to please younger crowd, which is a fact and the indicator of success is how many SUVs they sold, then you are right and i am wrong.

how is that?

TacoBello

I don't disagree. They WERE good. These days, not so much.

Their products aren't bad, but they don't lead in really any category... that's been their M.O. for at least the past decade. But... I think they do it on purpose. They don't crank heavy power from their engines. Their engines aren't fuel sippers. But... they are reliable AF. I think they put more emphasis on building cars that will run with little maintenance for 25 years, as opposed to excelling here or there.

None of their F offerings, or F-Sport offerings come close to performing like their direct competitors do. The LC500 has been rated as a "meh" car to drive, through numerous test drives I've read/watched. Same with the RC-F, last I looked into it. But again, they're not bad products, per say.

oonowindoo

Ok instead of 1 model, how about IS, GS, LS, HS or whatever other non SUV models?
I have seen this type of argument from Acura fanboys here for years....

oonowindoo

Rick, dont get too worked up... i know you work for Lexus and you would defend it to the end of the world. But i dont, so i say things based on my observation.

Chill.

Rick_TL-S

Except you never asked if it was successful as an SUV company. You just blurted out if Lexus can sell similar numbers as the Germans, you never made any mention of a specific range.
Let's go back to statement before that.
So, they were at German level until the grille was introduced on everything & only sales numbers talk to back that statement up, and now that the sales numbers do talk, it isn't about everything anymore, it's only about 1 thing now.
The problem with this argument is that it assumes only a car is made to appeal to a younger crowd. Again, why do you think a UX is being introduced to attack the market the CT was in? Because Crossovers/SUVs dominate the US market, and that's where the money is. The same reason BMW is introducing the new X2.
I didn't say it was an indicator of how many SUVs they sold, those are your words. I gave you statistics that show the "predator" grille isn't affecting Lexus sales as you assumed because they put in on everything.
Or how about I've seen this type of argument from people who want to find a way to prove they're still right.

You never mentioned specifics, you said "sales #s talk" as your sort of clarification to Lexus matching the Germans. I gave them to you, and now, you've shifted to meaning a specific model range. Yes, IS & GS sales are down to the Germans, IS & GS sales however, are not what solely represent Lexus just as 3 Series & 5 Series are not the only things BMW sell.

You wanted sales numbers, I gave them to you. That's all there is to this. If you were more specific in what you meant from the beginning about Lexus matching German brands, this discussion would be different.
You can claim its your observation and I can tell you as someone who observes Lexus buyers first hand, its wrong. There is no need to try and play, "well, in my opinion/observation". Your opinion is still wrong.

Majofo

Right, but check what that LS500 is..
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.

But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.

They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.

oonowindoo

Ok Ok.. you win... Lexus is still up there with the Germans and younger crowd loves their new design...

I aint got the time to type a response for each of your statement. I dont even do that to SSFTSX or Saintor.

But let's just focus on this 1 thing:

How do you know this? How do you know if Lexus sales # could not be higher if the cars didnt have the predator grille?

All i know is their GS's sales # should be a lot higher than what it is.

Rick_TL-S

They still have the superchargers from TRD, but they're expensive as fuck and Lexus US won't warranty them b/c they're not made for our market.

Had a baller client come in willing to drop $40,000+ on a LX for the supercharger and a body kit/wheels and we couldn't do it without him signing a waiver.

Rick_TL-S

The same way you "knew" that Lexus wasn't matching the Germans in sales #s because they put it on everything....

Sales could've been higher for a multitude of reasons.

oonowindoo

So i would assume the 3.6 will be a direct competitor with 740... then what about 750? is Lexus going to do what Acura did, just forget about that segment all together?

Majofo

Oh really.. I heard if Toyota installs the S/C on the Tundra (last gen), they'll warranty the engine and S/C for 3yrs 36k miles.
That wasn't a bad deal. Acura sure as hell didn't do the same for the C/T S/C.

Majofo

LS has only had 2 versions.. a reggo and a long.
Now it's just 1 version. Long.. :wink:

Majofo

I assume they could do a tune and some performance uppers but that's never been their game.
It's always been about a quality product. Consistency is their game. That's why they're appreciated and have repeat business.

Rick_TL-S

That might be. I read you state the 5.7 & supercharged, and my mind went to the LX since they share the same UR engine.

May be a case of Lexus US finding a loophole from covering it since they don't officially market TRD anything even if the parts fit.

Majofo

I almost bought a reggo cab S/C Tundra from a tech in Florida.
Completely dynomat'd, I mean he loved this truck.
Had slips in the 12s. Bananas!
I chickened out.

Majofo

This guy! He really had a sweet Tundra.. and this is it!
Sold it for 25k

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Supercharged Tundra

One day I'll have a full-size truck. As much as I would love a Denali HD with the Duramax to tune and such, I would be content with a loaded Tundra. They ride extremely well.

srika

set playback speed to 0.5x

https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-handy-l...-ci-1819984281

00TL-P3.2

fify

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Majofo

but the headgasket!
A turbo + truck == bliss

srika

oonowindoo

Someone should hire him as part of their marketing team...

My first car was 1997 Avalon XLS..... i could talk so much shit about it.... but it was reliable AF.... There is no debate on that.

Doom878

Aman

A guy at my school was from Kentucky had a 1G Avalon. He put my friend in a chokehold once. Would not buy.

Majofo

Are you smoking salts?

Majofo

Do you mean some hick moved to Canada and tried to sell his Avalon to you, but because he kicked your friend's ass, you didn't consider purchasing it?