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Old 10-09-2017, 02:27 PM   #17041
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2 View Post
Alltrac 6MT, shame not available on the SEL.
I know. Fucking Volkswagen. I can't imagine any reason why they don't offer it at all, even as an order.

And the 2018 SE will lose some features that would have made it more compelling than an S.

I hate having to make such a significant compromise in features just to get a manual transmission.
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Old 10-09-2017, 02:34 PM   #17042
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Huge mistake. Should have gone with the second generation (and much better looking) version.
oh yeah... that one. Forgot about it.

oh and, congrats and welcome back!!!!!!
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Old 10-09-2017, 02:38 PM   #17043
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Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
I know. Fucking Volkswagen. I can't imagine any reason why they don't offer it at all, even as an order.

And the 2018 SE will lose some features that would have made it more compelling than an S.

I hate having to make such a significant compromise in features just to get a manual transmission.

Mazda did the same thing on the 6. 6MT available on Sport & Touring, but not Grand Touring. I imagine it has something to do with adaptive cruise & auto-stop. May be the same on the VW
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Old 10-09-2017, 03:07 PM   #17044
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Good to have you back cmike!

The lack of manuals in general is annoying. But as enthusiasts, we need to go out and buy them. Problem for me is I don't think it's worth it to eat the first year or two of depreciation. Only made use of the warranty once.

I'll let other people and the manufacturer iron out the kinks first, then I'll buy a second or third year model used.
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Old 10-09-2017, 03:36 PM   #17045
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Good to have you back cmike!

The lack of manuals in general is annoying. But as enthusiasts, we need to go out and buy them. Problem for me is I don't think it's worth it to eat the first year or two of depreciation. Only made use of the warranty once.

I'll let other people and the manufacturer iron out the kinks first, then I'll buy a second or third year model used.
I agree and I was thinking to do another lease and then get a used Alltrack from next year's model.

The Passat has been good and was looking at a R-Design. Something to consider.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:54 PM   #17046
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Originally Posted by 2012wagon View Post
no clue in regular RC

but i follow RCF on club lexus and YUUUUGE discounts on tons of leftovers were provided by dealers

edit: 1) looks like people are paying 60-65k for GSF with 87k msrp
someone paid $66k on a 90k msrp gsf
dealers getting 14,000$ from lexus to move it
(per most recent thread on CL)

2) someone just paid RCF $59k from Cerritos dealer RCF. Msrp 77k
(most recent thread on CL)
If that is really the case, then the 1000/month lease payment just dont add up... I mean if you can get 20k off on a GSF, assuming the worst, 50% residual for 36 months... you can literally lease 1 for 600 a month...
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:56 PM   #17047
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
My coworker just quoted it for about $1285/month just off hand; $10000 off could get it down a lot more but he doesn’t want to guarantee you that deal bc it has to be approved. He said with you being out in Cali, you can likely find a much better deal around that $1000/month.

Thx man... that is what i thought... until i see 20-25k off can be hold..

But yah if it is around 1200.. that is too expensive, considering you can lease a $110k M5 for around 1200.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:21 PM   #17048
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
If that is really the case, then the 1000/month lease payment just dont add up... I mean if you can get 20k off on a GSF, assuming the worst, 50% residual for 36 months... you can literally lease 1 for 600 a month...
Check out club lexus for yours.

there are threads there with what people are paying

same thread had two gsf purchases in Los Angeles with amount





as I mentioned in the Ford F-150 thread, https://acurazine.com/forums/car-tal.../#post16110006, my wife is shopping for one (RCF) and she will be trading her wrx in

I have 4 quotes now (both for RCF and
gsf) and we looked at this used one today http://www.mclarenbeverlyhills.com/u...8d6eaab4f6.htm

as far as lesse payments , I have no clue. I know selling price only, as I think the discounts are for finance through them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich707 View Post
MSRP 77,089. Got the RCF for 59.289 -- Probably could have tried for more at a different Dealer - but this was an Autonation Dealer.
Did get them to throw in the Lexus maintenance for free and 800.00 off the regular Tire/ wheel protection as well after I started to walk away.
Could have done better but was exhausted at that point. Sales Manager was shaking his head when i took possession of the car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kira X View Post
We just sold our last GS-F at my dealer last weekend for $84,000. I thought that price was outrageous. I wouldn't pay more than $65,000 after seeing how cheap people on here have gotten them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reyrey127 View Post
Waxy, like you I also got the 7k coupon, not sure if I got a good deal on a 2017 GSF. 88.2 MSRP not including the 1k dealer installed addon so if you want to add that it was more like 89.2K MSRP, 66.5 before TTL. New car with white/red (my wife's favorite color combination) and about 20 miles, could of gone with one with 16 miles, but we decided to go with the later build one. Not sure if I got a good deal, but it sounds like I didn't do that great on the deal based on a comment made by someone on the GSF forum, which was to get it 66.5K OTD. Oh well. Just thought I would share with everyone. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkonquer View Post
Dealers were receiving approximately $14,000 from the Lexus to sell these cars last October too.. So maybe you have to buy one before October or something. You can literally buy one for around $50k

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfugio68 View Post
I got my 16 for 60k brand new last October, 76.8k msrp.

Last edited by 2012wagon; 10-09-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:44 PM   #17049
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RCF and GSF weren't moving last year. Deals were really good too. Deals are just as good this year if not better. As the 2018s hit the lot in a few months, there will be incredible deals on the 17s to be had.

RE GSF:
Quote:
Originally Posted by finny76 View Post
Last year the average discount everyone was getting was $20K, without much negotiation. I bet there are some folks who may have done better than that!

I am sure December to Remember will bring even better deals.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:08 PM   #17050
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Ok note to myself, check out the GSF in 2 months.... the deals could be so good that they might be able to take the upsides from the 4 series without affecting much of the deal
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:11 PM   #17051
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
Ok note to myself, check out the GSF in 2 months.... the deals could be so good that they might be able to take the upsides from the 4 series without affecting much of the deal
maybe we can do a 2 cars at the same dealer and do it even better

Wife is looking for Ultrasonic Blue with red interior. No go on the molten pearl. WRX Lmited has 37K miles on it. So probably will have 40k miles by December, when the trade will happen. Will keep you posted, if you are serious


The below orange is for sale. Almost for sale for a year. Price down to 50K, no bites. Original owner.


manheim has them going for 42-49k
lexus killed the resale on these
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Last edited by 2012wagon; 10-09-2017 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:17 PM   #17052
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holy shhitttt for 60-65k for GSF!!!!!

super deal IMO
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:55 PM   #17053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012wagon View Post
RCF and GSF weren't moving last year. Deals were really good too. Deals are just as good this year if not better. As the 2018s hit the lot in a few months, there will be incredible deals on the 17s to be had.

RE GSF:

I am sure December to Remember will bring even better deals.
I'm kind of skeptical on that. We haven't received a RCF or GSF in a long time now, and are down to maybe 3-4 a piece that we're having a hard time moving. It could possibly be us waiting for the '18s and not wanting any '17s for the mentioned reason, but I'll check our allocations tomorrow and see what's listed.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:03 PM   #17054
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
I'm kind of skeptical on that. We haven't received a RCF or GSF in a long time now, and are down to maybe 3-4 a piece that we're having a hard time moving. It could possibly be us waiting for the '18s and not wanting any '17s for the mentioned reason, but I'll check our allocations tomorrow and see what's listed.
I am just reporting what we have seen on club lexus and following closely there

there are 35 2017 RCF new
7 CPO RCF

26 GSF new

in a 25 mile radius of me

Last edited by 2012wagon; 10-09-2017 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:55 PM   #17055
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I am just reporting what we have seen on club lexus and following closely there

there are 35 2017 RCF new
7 CPO RCF

26 GSF new

in a 25 mile radius of me
I should elaborate more on the possibility of 2018s hitting the lot. Based on our current inventory and task with moving them, I'm not expecting us to receive anywhere near the same number we did last year during its release. Hence why I need to actually check our allocations and see if any and/or how many '18 RCF/GSF we have in build status as our 2018 LXs, GXs, & ES' have already begun to arrive. Due so, I'm not expecting the incoming inventory of those 2 models to be a reason to push the current inventory.

I can't speak for other dealers, but I also don't trust taking a search radius as to what's actually sitting on the lot. Our competitor Sewell lists cars that are still in build/transit status as available cars (which they technically are), but won't reach their lot from a week to 2 months. Just my opinion on it as I've seen the topics about the GSF/RCF on Club Lexus about how many are listed.

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Old 10-09-2017, 11:16 PM   #17056
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Ok I didn’t go and check each dealer inventory as none of the colors interests my wife


my dealer (2 miles from my house that we went and saw today) has 7 RCF, 3 GSF all new

they won’t be selling them anytime soon I am pretty sure
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:01 AM   #17057
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What's that dude have in his garage next to his breaker? Are those backup power?
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #17058
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Ok I didn’t go and check each dealer inventory as none of the colors interests my wife


my dealer (2 miles from my house that we went and saw today) has 7 RCF, 3 GSF all new

they won’t be selling them anytime soon I am pretty sure
Similar numbers at my inventory looking at the system: 7 RCFs, 4 GSFs. But that’s likely it for the year. I have no 2018 RCs in build status, only 3 2017s. And only 7 2018 GS’ which are slated to arrive early November.

Which is is why I was originally skeptical. You should be able to get a deal based on their inability to push them. I just wouldn’t use the incoming MY as leverage since they may not be getting any by the time Dec2Rem begins.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:12 AM   #17059
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Not sure I'd buy one of these...if the discounts are that huge, the resale must be horrendous. Unless you plan on keep it forever, you'll lose a ton on the depreciation alone.

I'd imagine that screws the lease deals as well no?
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:48 AM   #17060
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Not sure I'd buy one of these...if the discounts are that huge, the resale must be horrendous. Unless you plan on keep it forever, you'll lose a ton on the depreciation alone.

I'd imagine that screws the lease deals as well no?
no clue on lease , as my wife won’t lease

if you bought a RCF new for say 55-58k as people had on CL with discounts this time last year

looking at those Car on manheim, it shows worth 42-$49k

that gives you real time depreciation data

discounts at purchase don’t always mean depreciation loss

I bought my 2004 mazdaspeed miata in 2005 for $18250. Dealers were blowing them out as NC was coming. Msrp was $27,000

i sold it for 19,500 3 years later

I bought my 2007 s2000 new for $29,700. If you look at low mileage stock ones I could recoup a good amount


edit: now if you paid full price when discounts were offered and you didn’t know, you will get killed on resale. Like the person on CL that just paid $84,000 for a new GSf.

Last edited by 2012wagon; 10-10-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:50 AM   #17061
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Similar numbers at my inventory looking at the system: 7 RCFs, 4 GSFs. But that’s likely it for the year. I have no 2018 RCs in build status, only 3 2017s. And only 7 2018 GS’ which are slated to arrive early November.

Which is is why I was originally skeptical. You should be able to get a deal based on their inability to push them. I just wouldn’t use the incoming MY as leverage since they may not be getting any by the time Dec2Rem begins.
my dealer says he will get his 2018 RCF in February

now question is if the 2018 new screen is worth it

appreciate the info
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:17 AM   #17062
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no clue on lease , as my wife won’t lease

if you bought a RCF new for say 55-58k as people had on CL with discounts this time last year

looking at those Car on manheim, it shows worth 42-$49k

that gives you real time depreciation data

discounts at purchase don’t always mean depreciation loss

I bought my 2004 mazdaspeed miata in 2005 for $18250. Dealers were blowing them out as NC was coming. Msrp was $27,000

i sold it for 19,500 3 years later

I bought my 2007 s2000 new for $29,700. If you look at low mileage stock ones I could recoup a good amount


edit: now if you paid full price when discounts were offered and you didn’t know, you will get killed on resale. Like the person on CL that just paid $84,000 for a new GSf.
There are always the cars that will either not depreciate or depreciate very little. On the flip side, you'll get the cars that depreciate by tens of thousands in a matter of three years. The GS-F remains to be seen but it still seems, based on your data, that the car does lose $10k-$15k pretty quickly. If you're leasing, and can get the sell price down to $55k with a 55% residual of the MSRP, you can do awesome with a lease on one of these.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:22 AM   #17063
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Not sure I'd buy one of these...if the discounts are that huge, the resale must be horrendous. Unless you plan on keep it forever, you'll lose a ton on the depreciation alone.

I'd imagine that screws the lease deals as well no?
Nope,.. that is exactly the reason why you should lease.

But back to buying... yes the resale value would be bad but you also get 20k off MSRP..... so to me it is the same as getting little to no discount with good resale values.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #17064
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my dealer says he will get his 2018 RCF in February

now question is if the 2018 new screen is worth it

appreciate the info
no screen is worth 20K+ discount...
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #17065
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damn. that orange RCF looks hot.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:42 AM   #17066
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Quick question: Can you still feel the brake rotor warp or bad tire mounting balance if you have full E- Steering?
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:56 AM   #17067
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no screen is worth 20K+ discount...
precisely

still searching for the right color options . The salesman is trying to sell the wife the 350F sport , since they have it in he proper color LOL
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:58 AM   #17068
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damn. that orange RCF looks hot.
yeah it’s gorgeous. Couldn’t convince wife on molten pearl. She wants to stay with blue like her wrx is.

Molten pearl on the RCF has been discontinued

I believe they are adding yellow in 2018, which non USA cars have been getting previously
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:20 PM   #17069
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Anybody see the New Volvo with heated and cooled rear cup holders ?
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:48 PM   #17070
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Not the rear, but I recall a Chrysler sedan having heat/cool front cupholders. Not sure how well it worked, but remember seeing the feature on a rental car once.
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #17071
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Nope,.. that is exactly the reason why you should lease.

But back to buying... yes the resale value would be bad but you also get 20k off MSRP..... so to me it is the same as getting little to no discount with good resale values.
Doesn't the depreciation drive the residual way down and in turn the payment way up?

Teach me your ways...
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:52 PM   #17072
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Yes and no.

Depreciation/residual values in lease are determined by the banks... not the actual market.

That is why it can be manipulated based on the needs of the business. Think BMW.

Not every car with sucky real world resale values have bad residual values.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #17073
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For all you lease experts, need your opinion for a car my sister (this would be her first euro car) is looking to get:

428/430 Hardtop convertible. She is trying to decide (new ED delivery) vs CPO. Her current ride is a 2010 IS250C. She sent me this email. Your expertise appreciated:

"Here is my CPO:
  • Used CPO 428 with low miles will cost me $35,000 . If I keep it 7 years I estimate $5,000 in Maintenance. So $40,000 total cost.
  • It will be 10 years old, when I want to sell it maybe worth $8,000 .
  • So it could cost me $32,000 to drive 7 years, That is $380 a month
LEASE:
  • I am getting lease quote Lease is $600 a month.
  • Total cost end of 7 years will be $50,400, but of course I get to have a new car every 3 years, with 0 maintenance bills.
Thoughts?"
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:53 PM   #17074
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Common sense questions: Does the mileage make sense since lease is limited? $5,000 maintenance over 7 years seems low for a BMW but I defer to the experts. FYI I checked autotrader for 08 335i's since there was no 4 series then and they're like 11k range. And lastly would you rather pay $32k to drive an old car or $50k to drive a new one? Also your terms can change after 3 years so not sure $50,400 is accurate.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:10 PM   #17075
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post
Common sense questions: Does the mileage make sense since lease is limited? $5,000 maintenance over 7 years seems low for a BMW but I defer to the experts. FYI I checked autotrader for 08 335i's since there was no 4 series then and they're like 11k range. And lastly would you rather pay $32k to drive an old car or $50k to drive a new one? Also your terms can change after 3 years so not sure $50,400 is accurate.
thank you kindly

she drives 10k a year. So her plan is to buy a CPO with 30k miles and dump it at 100k

i will I’ll let her know that the maintence seems too low

I think 600$ a month will always get her into a C300/430 convertible type car, thus she was using that number to extrapolate

apppreciare Your help sir
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:35 PM   #17076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012wagon View Post
For all you lease experts, need your opinion for a car my sister (this would be her first euro car) is looking to get:

428/430 Hardtop convertible. She is trying to decide (new ED delivery) vs CPO. Her current ride is a 2010 IS250C. She sent me this email. Your expertise appreciated:

"Here is my CPO:
  • Used CPO 428 with low miles will cost me $35,000 . If I keep it 7 years I estimate $5,000 in Maintenance. So $40,000 total cost.
  • It will be 10 years old, when I want to sell it maybe worth $8,000 .
  • So it could cost me $32,000 to drive 7 years, That is $380 a month
LEASE:
  • I am getting lease quote Lease is $600 a month.
  • Total cost end of 7 years will be $50,400, but of course I get to have a new car every 3 years, with 0 maintenance bills.
Thoughts?"
The more important question is, does she wanna buy my 435i GC? I will sell it to her right now for not much more than a CPO 428 convertible. Still have 2 years of warranty left.

Buy CPO:
Is she gonna pay cash or finance? if financed, you forgot about another $4k in APR and another $4k in tax. Unless she can find one for $35k OTD.
What if something major or semi major breaks within these 10 years?

How much is driving a new car every 3 years worth to her? tires along for a 10 years car will run her close to $3k FYI.
Buying makes sense in long term, but she better make sure she does not sell it before 10 years because the comparison would change dramatically if she chose to sell it earlier than planned.

Also you can't compare lease "7" years vs. owning it for 7 years. One of the advantage of leasing is you dont own the car for longer than you wanted.... that is why no one is leasing their cars for 5 years, let alone 7 years.
The fact that you have a choice to return the car with no string attached after 3 years if you dont like the car or if the car is a lemon or if you just wanna something new. How much is that option/choice worth to you?

Last edited by oonowindoo; 10-12-2017 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:58 PM   #17077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
The more important question is, does she wanna buy my 435i GC? I will sell it to her right now for not much more than a CPO 428 convertible. Still have 2 years of warranty left.

Buy CPO:
Is she gonna pay cash or finance? if financed, you forgot about another $4k in APR and another $4k in tax. Unless she can find one for $35k OTD.
What if something major or semi major breaks within these 10 years?

How much is driving a new car every 3 years worth to her? tires along for a 10 years car will run her close to $3k FYI.
Buying makes sense in long term, but she better make sure she does not sell it before 10 years because the comparison would change dramatically if she chose to sell it earlier than planned.

Also you can't compare lease "7" years vs. owning it for 7 years. One of the advantage of leasing is you dont own the car for longer than you wanted.... that is why no one is leasing their cars for 5 years, let alone 7 years.
The fact that you have a choice to return the car with no string attached after 3 years if you dont like the car or if the car is a lemon or if you just wanna something new. How much is that option/choice worth to you?
Appreciate your response, as I know you are the lease guru around here.

She is 56 years old. She historically has bought a new car, kept it 100K miles (often 8-9 years) and sold. Always have been a convertible and will continue to be. Thus your GC is a no go, but great offer To answer some of your questions:
  • If CPO, she will write a check for it. No finance.
  • She would buy a 2015 car CPO. So it would be 2 years old. She would keep it 7-8 years, which at the end car will be 10 years old.
  • Something major could of course break,and given Euro, likely will. She is hoping with new car warranty + CPO warranty, and selling it at 95K miles or so, she will be able to escape MOST of the major breakage. That is her hope.
  • She doesn't care about driving a new car every 3 years. She gets her tires at Costco. She isn't running around with YokoA050 or R888 like me
  • She isn't wanting to lease for 7 years. She is trying to compare total cost of ownership over a 7-8 year period vs buying a CPO. Thus she would lease a 36 month, return, lease another 36 month, give or take. Not an exact science of course. Basically her payment will be $600ish for the whole 7 years, with no maintenance except for tires. She is trying to see if she buys it CPO would she come out ahead in 7 years, or is it better to lease? She is just caring about the "dollar amount." She doesn't care about the new car smell or having the newest gadget. (she doesn't even own a cell phone)


She just forwarded me the quote she got from local BMW dealer. The MSRP is $61,770
Here is the car: 2018 BMW 4 Series 430i Glendale CA 20372165

Hopefully I got you enough info, where you can make a recommendation looking at the numbers. Looking forward to your response, and Appreciate your time!!!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 430 lease.pdf (168.3 KB, 4 views)
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:16 PM   #17078
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Yah base on the information. buying is a better option for her.

Just FYI. Costco or not, the car comes with runflat with no spare tires. So she either be willing to tow the car if a tire is flat or she will continue to buy run flat and they are expensive as fuck. More than R888

Leasing only makes sense under certain conditions. The most common ones are:

Drive Less than 15k miles a year
want a new car every 2-3 years
Tax benefits
Want the latest tech and performance
Willing to pay more for a peace of mind. (always under warranty

It seems none of those is her preference. So just tell her to go buy a CPO with a good extended warranty... Make sure to negotiate on the ext. warranty too. You usually get at least 50% off of what they want.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:27 PM   #17079
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I hate the trend of runflats on so many vehicles these days.

A spare and toolkit isn't that heavy, nor does it take up that much room. Even if it does, it is not worse than all the downsides of runflats.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:34 PM   #17080
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Worse is the acura wagon 2012-2014 from the factory

no runflats
no spare

fun times
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