General Car Talk Discussion Thread
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Waffles, BU
Well shit.. 
Sam hit many of the marks in regards to what gave diesels a bad rep and indeed older gen diesel cars and trucks ran NA Diesel. But the main reason most if not all modern diesels are FI is it takes a fucking long time to get it going from a standstill. 0-60 in about 3 weeks.. One of the first vehicles I drove was an old NA diesel truck. I can't tell you how many times people fucking honked at me after the light turned green, or got passed in a fit of rage.
I'm super fucking surprised how little you guys know about the history of diesel engines and the basic properties of them.
:aman:
I'm super fucking surprised how little you guys know about the history of diesel engines and the basic properties of them.
:aman:
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
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From: Waffles, BU
Diesel engines, especially the old NA ones were as tough as they came. You could fill the tank with piss and cigarette butts and it would find a way to combust it. Now even adding boost, they are still super reliable, they're built for it. So you might ask.. well fuck.. why not boost the shit out of it..
Well.. that power has to go to the wheels somehow..
My brosef has a 10 second twin turbo diesel dually. Huge fucking hair dryers.. He's in the upper 900's..
..and on his 6th transmission.
Well.. that power has to go to the wheels somehow..
My brosef has a 10 second twin turbo diesel dually. Huge fucking hair dryers.. He's in the upper 900's.. ..and on his 6th transmission.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 29,869
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Well shit..
Sam hit many of the marks in regards to what gave diesels a bad rep and indeed older gen diesel cars and trucks ran NA Diesel. But the main reason most if not all modern diesels are FI is it takes a fucking long time to get it going from a standstill. 0-60 in about 3 weeks.. One of the first vehicles I drove was an old NA diesel truck. I can't tell you how many times people fucking honked at me after the light turned green, or got passed in a fit of rage.
I'm super fucking surprised how little you guys know about the history of diesel engines and the basic properties of them. :aman:
Sam hit many of the marks in regards to what gave diesels a bad rep and indeed older gen diesel cars and trucks ran NA Diesel. But the main reason most if not all modern diesels are FI is it takes a fucking long time to get it going from a standstill. 0-60 in about 3 weeks.. One of the first vehicles I drove was an old NA diesel truck. I can't tell you how many times people fucking honked at me after the light turned green, or got passed in a fit of rage.
I'm super fucking surprised how little you guys know about the history of diesel engines and the basic properties of them.
:aman:If you ask me, I'd rather dunk my nutsack in lava than buy a hybrid over a turbo diesel. One of my not so weird "ideas for a daily" was a Golf TDI. They hold value like crazy for a reason.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
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From: Los Angeles
I love diesel from my limited seat time (1 week) with 328d. The problem is there are no affordable turbo diesel cars with enough HP and 6mt out there right now after BMW cut 335d.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Aug 29, 2014 at 02:24 AM.
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,494
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From: Maryland
Diesel engines, especially the old NA ones were as tough as they came. You could fill the tank with piss and cigarette butts and it would find a way to combust it. Now even adding boost, they are still super reliable, they're built for it. So you might ask.. well fuck.. why not boost the shit out of it..
Well.. that power has to go to the wheels somehow.. My brosef has a 10 second twin turbo diesel dually. Huge fucking hair dryers.. He's in the upper 900's..
..and on his 6th transmission.
Well.. that power has to go to the wheels somehow..
My brosef has a 10 second twin turbo diesel dually. Huge fucking hair dryers.. He's in the upper 900's.. ..and on his 6th transmission.
My buddy (who jumped/flipped his truck a few years ago) has a lifted Dmax on 35's. He upgraded the turbo, and I think he's running NOS. any who, it hauls ass. I've never seen all four tires light up like that
I think he's in the 900's as well. If not, he's pretty damn close
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 17,876
Likes: 7,023
From: Minnesnowta
Well, diesels have always had a stigma about them. At least in the states. So as a result they are less common, and so people know less about them.
If you ask me, I'd rather dunk my nutsack in lava than buy a hybrid over a turbo diesel. One of my not so weird "ideas for a daily" was a Golf TDI. They hold value like crazy for a reason.
If you ask me, I'd rather dunk my nutsack in lava than buy a hybrid over a turbo diesel. One of my not so weird "ideas for a daily" was a Golf TDI. They hold value like crazy for a reason.
The awesome part about diesel is you can tune the sh1t out of them without fear that you'll blow the engine up. Get a Jetta TDI and you can push some serious power out of that motor with a tune...just make sure you get the manual and not the automatic.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,283
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Was looking at the C6 Z06 market today. And man, if you got the cash, now is the perfect time to pick up a mint one. Several ones no younger than 2009 with 30,000 miles avergae (20x on the low, 40x on the high end) on the market, prime examples.
Shame they're just too far out of my reach.
Shame they're just too far out of my reach.
^Nice. That's why I'll probably never buy a car new. Have patience and a great deal will eventually present itself. Gotta be okay with sitting on other people's farts tho.
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
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Was looking at the C6 Z06 market today. And man, if you got the cash, now is the perfect time to pick up a mint one. Several ones no younger than 2009 with 30,000 miles average (20x on the low, 40x on the high end) on the market, prime examples.
Shame they're just too far out of my reach.
Shame they're just too far out of my reach.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,863
Likes: 439
I did a lot of work on diesel engines in skool, I'll try and answer some of these...
Yes, you can run a diesel without a turbo. Many larger applications of diesel engines running for max torque rather than max power (ships/trains/generators for example) will run a diesel without a turbo.
Many older cars/trucks came without a turbo diesel. These are the super smoky and smelly cars that gave diesel a bad name to begin with. The non-FI diesel engines tend to not burn as cleanly because of lower combustion pressures, adding a turbo increases that pressure and provides a more complete fuel burn.
In the automotive world, a diesel all but needs to come with a turbo. A N/A diesel motor will produce a lot less power than a similarly sized N/A gas engine and because the diesel motor weighs a lot more due to component weight, something needs to be done to bring the power to weight ratio more in line with a gas engine. Turbos aren't all that heavy and can add a ton of power, hence why they are included. Add to that the fact that you can basically run a diesel up to max operating pressure in terms of boost and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to not run a turbo. There doesn't need to be any knock sensors or timing changes because the fuel is injected at the time of combustion and...well there's no spark plug to adjust timing on...
Low end torque is inherent to any diesel, the turbo aids in the high end power. Turbos were added in the late 60's to early 70's to long haul trucks because that's when the interstate system was ramping up to what it is now. Before then, a lot of transport was by train and trucks didn't need to travel at high speeds, that's what requires horsepower as I'm sure you know.
Your instructor is absolutely right. The turbo just helps the higher end of the rev range by shoving more air and fuel into the combustion space.
An exhaust path has an effect on any engine regardless of fuel choice. The biggest part of a turbo system is exhaust pulse timing, you want the engine to send a pulse of exhaust gas at the exact time a turbine blade is in position to take full advantage of it. If the system is timed between blades, you lose power. If the system is sometimes between blades, you lose power. Downstream of the turbo, the bigger the better since you want to evacuate the gas as fast as possible. The reason that large trucks have large exhausts is simply because they have a large volume of expelled exhaust to get rid of. A 1.8L diesel engine in a passenger car doesn't have a whole lot of exhaust gas to expel. A 15L+ diesel engine in a semi truck has a hell of a lot more to push out.
Hope this helps.
Yes, you can run a diesel without a turbo. Many larger applications of diesel engines running for max torque rather than max power (ships/trains/generators for example) will run a diesel without a turbo.
Many older cars/trucks came without a turbo diesel. These are the super smoky and smelly cars that gave diesel a bad name to begin with. The non-FI diesel engines tend to not burn as cleanly because of lower combustion pressures, adding a turbo increases that pressure and provides a more complete fuel burn.
In the automotive world, a diesel all but needs to come with a turbo. A N/A diesel motor will produce a lot less power than a similarly sized N/A gas engine and because the diesel motor weighs a lot more due to component weight, something needs to be done to bring the power to weight ratio more in line with a gas engine. Turbos aren't all that heavy and can add a ton of power, hence why they are included. Add to that the fact that you can basically run a diesel up to max operating pressure in terms of boost and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to not run a turbo. There doesn't need to be any knock sensors or timing changes because the fuel is injected at the time of combustion and...well there's no spark plug to adjust timing on...
Low end torque is inherent to any diesel, the turbo aids in the high end power. Turbos were added in the late 60's to early 70's to long haul trucks because that's when the interstate system was ramping up to what it is now. Before then, a lot of transport was by train and trucks didn't need to travel at high speeds, that's what requires horsepower as I'm sure you know.
Your instructor is absolutely right. The turbo just helps the higher end of the rev range by shoving more air and fuel into the combustion space.
An exhaust path has an effect on any engine regardless of fuel choice. The biggest part of a turbo system is exhaust pulse timing, you want the engine to send a pulse of exhaust gas at the exact time a turbine blade is in position to take full advantage of it. If the system is timed between blades, you lose power. If the system is sometimes between blades, you lose power. Downstream of the turbo, the bigger the better since you want to evacuate the gas as fast as possible. The reason that large trucks have large exhausts is simply because they have a large volume of expelled exhaust to get rid of. A 1.8L diesel engine in a passenger car doesn't have a whole lot of exhaust gas to expel. A 15L+ diesel engine in a semi truck has a hell of a lot more to push out.
Hope this helps.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
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I <3 the Unimog... 
Arnuld's goes up for sale if you're BoostedJack-rich and can afford it and the gas it'll drink...
From here: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...es-up-for-sale
Arnuld's goes up for sale if you're BoostedJack-rich and can afford it and the gas it'll drink...
From here: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...es-up-for-sale
Some people just don't look right in regular cars. Arnold Schwarzenegger is one of those people. The man who made a Harley-Davidson Fat Boy look small in Terminator 2: Judgement Day has counted a HumVee, a Unimog and even a tank among his personal vehicles, all of which seem strangely appropriate for a man who made his name beating, shooting and killing his foes on the silver screen.
Now, his Unimog—a Unimog U1300 SE 6.4 made to his own specifications—is up for sale on German classifieds Mobile (via World Car Fans). And if you've got the required 200,000 euros or so to buy it, you too can absorb some of Arnie's powers. Or something. Whatever happens, you'll have a pretty striking vehicle which is road-legal in the U.S, as well as its native Germany. As a 1977 model, it also benefits from full vintage car approval in its home country—though it does have a more modern engine.
Schwarzenegger might have been supportive of several green policies during his time as Governator of California, but the Unimog's 6.4-liter, 320-horsepower turbodiesel isn't exactly the cleanest of lumps. Designed more for commercial use, it only complies with Euro 3 emissions regulations which came into force in January 2000 and permit over ten times the harmful particulate matter that current European regulations do. Still, this probably won't be a daily driver for its eventual owner, who might instead appreciate the 22-inch wheels and Michelin XZL 445/65 tires, the air suspension, the trailer brake system, roll bar, Hella lights or the flatbed—complete with a built-in bench seat for three.
Its full after-tax price of 208,250 euros (175,000 before Germany's 19 percent purchase tax) could be considered a bargain, though. That currently equates to just under $275,000, or only around $25,000 more than it was originally rumored to cost when Arnie took delivery. There's some celebrity mark-up there for sure (Arnie's signature even features on the dash), but it only shows 2,100 kilometers (1,300 miles) on the odometer and as a 1977 example it's definitely a classic (of sorts)—and we all know the classic market is on its way up...
Now, his Unimog—a Unimog U1300 SE 6.4 made to his own specifications—is up for sale on German classifieds Mobile (via World Car Fans). And if you've got the required 200,000 euros or so to buy it, you too can absorb some of Arnie's powers. Or something. Whatever happens, you'll have a pretty striking vehicle which is road-legal in the U.S, as well as its native Germany. As a 1977 model, it also benefits from full vintage car approval in its home country—though it does have a more modern engine.
Schwarzenegger might have been supportive of several green policies during his time as Governator of California, but the Unimog's 6.4-liter, 320-horsepower turbodiesel isn't exactly the cleanest of lumps. Designed more for commercial use, it only complies with Euro 3 emissions regulations which came into force in January 2000 and permit over ten times the harmful particulate matter that current European regulations do. Still, this probably won't be a daily driver for its eventual owner, who might instead appreciate the 22-inch wheels and Michelin XZL 445/65 tires, the air suspension, the trailer brake system, roll bar, Hella lights or the flatbed—complete with a built-in bench seat for three.
Its full after-tax price of 208,250 euros (175,000 before Germany's 19 percent purchase tax) could be considered a bargain, though. That currently equates to just under $275,000, or only around $25,000 more than it was originally rumored to cost when Arnie took delivery. There's some celebrity mark-up there for sure (Arnie's signature even features on the dash), but it only shows 2,100 kilometers (1,300 miles) on the odometer and as a 1977 example it's definitely a classic (of sorts)—and we all know the classic market is on its way up...
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,283
Likes: 1,272
So I had to make a delivery at work today down south past Motorsport Ranch in Granbury. About a QTR mike away from the track, I notice this really aggressive Charger with a duck tail spoiler. As she went by, I noticed it had Michigan M plates and sure enough, it was a Hellcat.
Tried to speed up to grab a pic, but she turned onto the track entrance road. Unfortunately, I didn't have a lot of time to spare, so I couldn't follow it. Did sound amazing coming off the light though.
Tried to speed up to grab a pic, but she turned onto the track entrance road. Unfortunately, I didn't have a lot of time to spare, so I couldn't follow it. Did sound amazing coming off the light though.
Living the Dream
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,924
Likes: 130
From: near Charlotte
I didn’t want to start a new thread for this...
I had been planning on purchasing a new car sometime early next year but that timeline may be moved up since I was rear ended a couple weeks ago. I doubt the car will be totaled but I would like to be prepared just in case.
The car that has been high my list for a while is the Golf TDI. I like the styling and love the mpg. My commute is 45 miles each way and 40 of that is interstate.
My question for you is what other vehicles should I have on my radar? Available now or early next year (if car is not totaled).
I like hatchbacks/wagons but am not opposed to sedans. Current car is a 2006 TSX (non-nav) 6-spd
Requirements:
Good mpg (above 35 ideal)
Below $30k
Heated seats
Auto or manual (doesn’t matter)
Bluetooth
Nice to haves:
Homelink
Nav
Satellite radio (this is almost a requirement...)
Other cars that I have looked at (on-line only) are:
new Honda Fit (just not sure how “solid” it will feel but Honda reliability a plus)
Mazda 3 (love the exterior, not sure about interior with that stupid nav/info screen layout)
Subaru Impreza (a little boring)
Subaru Outback (checks a lot of the boxes but mpg could be better)
the 2015 (2016) VW Golf Wagon TDI when it hits our shores in early 2015
I had been planning on purchasing a new car sometime early next year but that timeline may be moved up since I was rear ended a couple weeks ago. I doubt the car will be totaled but I would like to be prepared just in case.
The car that has been high my list for a while is the Golf TDI. I like the styling and love the mpg. My commute is 45 miles each way and 40 of that is interstate.
My question for you is what other vehicles should I have on my radar? Available now or early next year (if car is not totaled).
I like hatchbacks/wagons but am not opposed to sedans. Current car is a 2006 TSX (non-nav) 6-spd
Requirements:
Good mpg (above 35 ideal)
Below $30k
Heated seats
Auto or manual (doesn’t matter)
Bluetooth
Nice to haves:
Homelink
Nav
Satellite radio (this is almost a requirement...)
Other cars that I have looked at (on-line only) are:
new Honda Fit (just not sure how “solid” it will feel but Honda reliability a plus)
Mazda 3 (love the exterior, not sure about interior with that stupid nav/info screen layout)
Subaru Impreza (a little boring)
Subaru Outback (checks a lot of the boxes but mpg could be better)
the 2015 (2016) VW Golf Wagon TDI when it hits our shores in early 2015
Last edited by cmschmie; Sep 4, 2014 at 07:11 AM.
If you're looking for an appliance, the Civic is a good choice. Mine has been mostly problem free. I'm at 30k in about a year and a half, and I've averaged 42mpgs after a long six hour drive.
I think there are better/funner options if that's what you want.
from your list, I'd go Golf or Mazda3
I think there are better/funner options if that's what you want.
from your list, I'd go Golf or Mazda3
Last edited by crazyasiantl; Sep 4, 2014 at 07:49 AM.
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,494
Likes: 1,569
From: Maryland
I would definitely consider that. With that said, the MK6 JSW TDIs are going for well under invoice in some areas.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
Living the Dream
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,924
Likes: 130
From: near Charlotte
I would definitely consider that. With that said, the MK6 JSW TDIs are going for well under invoice in some areas.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
The cars that I will more than likely test drive first are:
Golf TDI SE (probably DSG)
Mazda 3S Touring or Grand Touring (maybe an i Grand Touring with manual)
Subaru Impreza Sport Limited
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 29,678
Likes: 6,512
From: Spring, TX
I would definitely consider that. With that said, the MK6 JSW TDIs are going for well under invoice in some areas.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
But if I had my choice, I'd rather have the new Mk7 TDI.
I haven't been inside the Mazda3 but I don't think I'd get tired of looking at a Mazda3 S in my driveway.
I can get around 29-30mpg in 75H/25C driving in my Focus ST. I don't think you necessarily need to go buy some econobox with a hamster motor.
The 3s 6MT should have started hitting lots now.
I'm trying to keep the TL going long enough to see what comes out in the next months. Maybe wait for the new MX5.
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,494
Likes: 1,569
From: Maryland
I've driven the 6MT 3i & it's not a bad drive. The one I drove was the only 6MT they had at the time (Dec last year) so it was a basic Touring model sedan.
The 3s 6MT should have started hitting lots now.
I'm trying to keep the TL going long enough to see what comes out in the next months. Maybe wait for the new MX5.
The 3s 6MT should have started hitting lots now.
I'm trying to keep the TL going long enough to see what comes out in the next months. Maybe wait for the new MX5.
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 17,876
Likes: 7,023
From: Minnesnowta
Golf SportWagen would be the only thing on that list I'd consider. The new Fit is fine but like you said, you only get so much quality out of that price point. The Golf SW TDI can be tuned for wicked performance and also for awesome economy all with the same motor, that's not something you can do with any of the other cars.
If you're just looking for a commuter and don't care, my friend bought a brand new Hyundai Accident for like $15k, it gets 40ish mpg and isn't horrible in quality. Definitely not good and certainly not as good as the VW but far cheaper and with the 100k powertrain warranty...it's a bargain to run for a long time.
If you're just looking for a commuter and don't care, my friend bought a brand new Hyundai Accident for like $15k, it gets 40ish mpg and isn't horrible in quality. Definitely not good and certainly not as good as the VW but far cheaper and with the 100k powertrain warranty...it's a bargain to run for a long time.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 29,678
Likes: 6,512
From: Spring, TX
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 169,084
Likes: 23,851
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 29,678
Likes: 6,512
From: Spring, TX
I'm liking it from the few shots available. TG:UK had a few more shots than some of the other sites I've seen. Not sure if the US will get the dash mounted tablet that the Euro/JDM units will get.
I never was a huge fan of the NC. If the ND comes in as light as has been rumored & is NA-gen fun to drive. I'll be sold.
I never was a huge fan of the NC. If the ND comes in as light as has been rumored & is NA-gen fun to drive. I'll be sold.
Golf SportWagen would be the only thing on that list I'd consider. The new Fit is fine but like you said, you only get so much quality out of that price point. The Golf SW TDI can be tuned for wicked performance and also for awesome economy all with the same motor, that's not something you can do with any of the other cars.
If you're just looking for a commuter and don't care, my friend bought a brand new Hyundai Accident for like $15k, it gets 40ish mpg and isn't horrible in quality. Definitely not good and certainly not as good as the VW but far cheaper and with the 100k powertrain warranty...it's a bargain to run for a long time.
If you're just looking for a commuter and don't care, my friend bought a brand new Hyundai Accident for like $15k, it gets 40ish mpg and isn't horrible in quality. Definitely not good and certainly not as good as the VW but far cheaper and with the 100k powertrain warranty...it's a bargain to run for a long time.