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Where's the data to show this? If this is the case, the insurance rates for Teslas should plummet and I'll go buy one.
He is living in a world where there is no human driver.. Only FSD made by Tesla... actually the only cars in that world is Tesla and Elon is the President of the US and he suck his D for breakfast every morning.
Saying the guy driving a RDX
Sorry my mom doesnt have a basement in the house that i bought for her.
Robotaxis? Wow... you mean 2021? Ok, how about let's make a bet to see if i will encounter Robotaxis in 2021? If i dont, you get banned. If i see 1, then i will get banned.
It was very kind of you to buy a house for her. I’m sorry the discussion went astray.
what’s wrong with me driving an RDX ...? I thought you are the one who’s afraid is robotaxis nearby (not me).
All Tesla cars will likely be Robotaxi capable / autonomous in 2021.
Robotaxies will be unleashed as soon as it gets regulatory approval. I’ve already bet on the stock market. Now you do yours on an OEM / legacy. .
No other car companies built their own custom single purpose processors just to power their custom self driving software. VW, Toyota, Honda, Gm, etc would just order those processors from a catalog, and if they weren’t good enough they would dare try to design their own processor from scratch. Nvidia’s general processors can’t compete with a custom chip solely designed for self driving, this means other car companies can’t do what Tesla is doing since there’s no processor on the market that can compete with their self driving processor.
Dont make me laugh. Tesla is going to compete with Huawei, STMicro, Nvidia, Samsung in chips with there continous upgrades? Honda sells more in cars in a month in China that Tesla need 2 years to sell. Tesla excess production in China need to be re-exported. that will make European factory superflous.
California registeration of Tesla are still declining despite price cuts. There is no revenue growth unless some funny accounting.
It was very kind of you to buy a house for her. I’m sorry the discussion went astray.
what’s wrong with me driving an RDX ...? I thought you are the one who’s afraid is robotaxis nearby (not me).
All Tesla cars will likely be Robotaxi capable / autonomous in 2021.
Robotaxies will be unleashed as soon as it gets regulatory approval. I’ve already bet on the stock market. Now you do yours on an OEM / legacy. .
so do you wanna take the bet or not? dont avoid the question.
I wonder if you ever get tired debating with yourself... you know you are looking at a mirror right? You are talking to SSFTSX
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Dont make me laugh. Tesla is going to compete with Huawei, STMicro, Nvidia, Samsung in chips with there continous upgrades? Honda sells more in cars in a month in China that Tesla need 2 years to sell. Tesla excess production in China need to be re-exported. that will make European factory superflous.
California registeration of Tesla are still declining despite price cuts. There is no revenue growth unless some funny accounting.
It seems you are correct about some of the automakers though (esp Mercedes, who decided to give up on self driving since apparently “they cannot compete” - their words, not mine). https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-...omous-driving/
For the public, yes it may not be necessary (for most), but is underscores the leading automaker’s technological superiority and that’s where the general public will gravitate to.
They said “We don’t compete in any race that we can no longer win”.
That race? Self driving cars used for ride/car sharing.
The reason? “The conversion to a mobility provider is a thing of the past. We will move away from it again. You can’t make money with offers like car sharing. Our investors not only expect sales, but also above all profit.”
They said “We don’t compete in any race that we can no longer win”.
That race? Self driving cars used for ride/car sharing.
The reason? “The conversion to a mobility provider is a thing of the past. We will move away from it again. You can’t make money with offers like car sharing. Our investors not only expect sales, but also above all profit.”
They cut autonomous driving R&D due to development costs associated because the ROI wasn't worth it for them.
LOL.....self driving technology is self driving technology, doesn’t matter if you use it for ride sharing or for personal use.
They can sugarcoat it anyway they want to, but the bottom line is they can’t compete with Tesla (and afford to lose). What can’t you accept the fact stated by MB itself? At least they appear to be honest in this regard, I give it to them.
Tesla didn’t get the technology for free. They had to spend money on it too (especially when they were mortally struggling), and they got really good at it. Daimler appears to have accepted the harsh reality.
Now Tesla will show them again how to make money using self driving technology and car sharing. . Why do you think Uber and Waymo are spending billions on self driving technology for...?
Tesla’s huge advantage is that they can develop and improve this technology without making the investments that Uber and Waymo need to do, instead Tesla is making profit by selling cars simultaneously.
Here’s the information released by Tesla to prove that Autopilot/ FSD is better than human drivers (up to 9 times). What a timely response from Tesla. May be they are reading this thread on Acurazine. LOL
https://electrek.co/2020/10/26/tesla...t-improvement/ Today, Tesla released its report for Q3 2020:
In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.59 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.42 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.79 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 479,000 miles.
Commercial use and personal use are 2 completely different things. from practical and legal perspective.
risking other people's lives vs. risking you your own are the same things to you?
Anyways.. you can make all these big talks when it is actually available.. Until then just be quiet cuz it doesnt exist yet.
Originally Posted by Comfy
LOL.....self driving technology is self driving technology, doesn’t matter if you use it for ride sharing or for personal use.
They can sugarcoat it anyway they want to, but the bottom line is they can’t compete with Tesla (and afford to lose). What can’t you accept the fact stated by MB itself? At least they appear to be honest in this regard, I give it to them.
Tesla didn’t get the technology for free. They had to spend money on it too (especially when they were mortally struggling), and they got really good at it. Daimler appears to have accepted the harsh reality.
Now Tesla will show them again how to make money using self driving technology and car sharing. . Why do you think Uber and Waymo are spending billions on self driving technology for...?
Tesla’s huge advantage is that they can develop and improve this technology without making the investments that Uber and Waymo need to do, instead Tesla is making profit by selling cars simultaneously.
Here’s the information released by Tesla to prove that Autopilot/ FSD is better than human drivers (up to 9 times). What a timely response from Tesla. May be they are reading this thread on Acurazine. LOL
https://electrek.co/2020/10/26/tesla...t-improvement/ Today, Tesla released its report for Q3 2020:
In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.59 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.42 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.79 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 479,000 miles.
So you are using information released by Tesla to give credit to Tesla?
And how do you know if it is because of the auto pilot or active safety features?
Also whether or when you use auto pilot or not is highly situational. You dont use auto pilot in area or road that you are not familiar or during dangerous situations and consider when do people actually use auto pilot.
Cock sucking at its best
If that information is 100% accurate, then why does it still driver to pay attention to the road? we can all just take a nap while driving if the current technology is 9 times better than human
Last edited by oonowindoo; 10-26-2020 at 05:47 PM.
I personally think that FSD when fully developed is less risky, but only if:
There is no more human driver in this world... because Human
I truly believe machines are more reliable. A lot of the risky and stupid shit human do is because of emotions that machines and computers don't have.
Unfortunately and fortunately, there will always be human drivers....
Yep. Computers cannot work the same way as people. Lots of research and many billions have been spent to make them work the same way but we're not even close.
People are stupid and irrational. Computers are logical and perfect. Those two don't mix.
Originally Posted by Comfy
Here’s the information released by Tesla to prove that Autopilot/ FSD is better than human drivers (up to 9 times). What a timely response from Tesla. May be they are reading this thread on Acurazine. LOL
https://electrek.co/2020/10/26/tesla...t-improvement/ Today, Tesla released its report for Q3 2020:
In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.59 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.42 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.79 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 479,000 miles.
All of the profit at Tesla comes from selling green credits (which has been going up) - the rest of the company is still not making money.
Yeah that's false. Their vehicles and energy sectors are profitable, Their gross profit margin in Q3 excluding credits was 23.7%, but they are taking all that profit and EV credits and using it to expand like crazy, building out 3 factories on 3 continents right now. The just announced they'll spend up to 12 billion more in the next couple years( they have $14B in cash on hand), they're in startup mode and will be for most of this decade. The goal is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy not sell lots of products at high profit margins so they're spending all of the money they have to build EV and battery factories, mine lithium, build service centers and expand their supercharger network, etc etc in order to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy."
The reason that other car companies are giving Tesla billions of dollars in credits is because they can't make compelling EVs that people want to buy. If FCA had a good EV that enough people wanted to buy then they wouldn't have to pay Tesla $2 billion. If Tesla didn't have EV credits to sell, they would spend the rest of their money differently. They would still turn a slight profit and just spend less on growth. Tesla is using the credits the best possible way, on growth instead profit.
I bet the ZEV credits are why Giga Shanghai is now exporting vehicles to Europe. The made in China Model 3 is cheaper to produce than the US one and they can sell it in Europe and get ZEV credits for it, so they make more money selling a Chinese Model 3 in the EU than selling that same 3 in China. That's more money they can use to expand production.
All of the profit at Tesla comes from selling green credits (which has been going up) - the rest of the company is still not making money.
Originally Posted by biker
GAAP net income $331M - $397M in pollution credits = no profit in quarter without the credits.
Biker, who admits that no context was given but those are the numbers.
And why is that supposed to be a bad thing? The government agencies are punishing the automakers who sell climate polluting vehicles and giving that to everyone who’ll make clean energy vehicles. The fact that no one else has been able to compete with Tesla on that front clearly shows how far ahead Tesla is from them.
As pointed above, Tesla will use the profits to expand even more production capacity like crazy, so that by the time the EV credits dry up, the profit margins from vehicle and solar product sales will be substantial and sustainable.
LOL.....self driving technology is self driving technology, doesn’t matter if you use it for ride sharing or for personal use.
They can sugarcoat it anyway they want to, but the bottom line is they can’t compete with Tesla (and afford to lose). What can’t you accept the fact stated by MB itself? At least they appear to be honest in this regard, I give it to them.
Tesla didn’t get the technology for free. They had to spend money on it too (especially when they were mortally struggling), and they got really good at it. Daimler appears to have accepted the harsh reality.
Now Tesla will show them again how to make money using self driving technology and car sharing. . Why do you think Uber and Waymo are spending billions on self driving technology for...?
Tesla’s huge advantage is that they can develop and improve this technology without making the investments that Uber and Waymo need to do, instead Tesla is making profit by selling cars simultaneously.
This is like saying Motorola lost the breakfast cereal race - it's not in their business plan.
MB has no desire to sell full self driving cars that are destined for taxi fleets. THAT is what MB said. They did not scrap autonomous vehicles. They still have their deal with Nvidia to bring level 2 and 3 automated driving and level 4 automated parking vehicles to market by 2024. Why is it so hard to read beyond the Fox-like headline on the Teslarati story and see what the subject in question actually said, in full context?
And why is that supposed to be a bad thing? The government agencies are punishing the automakers who sell climate polluting vehicles and giving that to everyone who’ll make clean energy vehicles. The fact that no one else has been able to compete with Tesla on that front clearly shows how far ahead Tesla is from them.
As pointed above, Tesla will use the profits to expand even more production capacity like crazy, so that by the time the EV credits dry up, the profit margins from vehicle and solar product sales will be substantial and sustainable.
We are not talking about the US right? Last time i checked Climate change isn't real in the US...
2nd out of 17 is pretty good. But I was told Tesla was far ahead of the pack and that legacy auto was for knuckle draggers?
This is really just a ploy for galaxy brain Elon, cede a little bit of ground so that the stock price falls, then I can go all in even harder on TSLA, muhahahahahaha!!!!1!!
2nd out of 17 is pretty good. But I was told Tesla was far ahead of the pack and that legacy auto was for knuckle draggers?
This is really just a ploy for galaxy brain Elon, cede a little bit of ground so that the stock price falls, then I can go all in even harder on TSLA, muhahahahahaha!!!!1!!
And don't forget this chart. From last place to 2nd place is pretty good indeed.
I'm not disputing the report. Their criteria was strictly level 2-3 autonomy and within that given criteria GM super cruise excels (even though it cannot recognize or respond to traffic lights, or operate outside the geofenced highways). But the report also mentioned that in the actual performance, Tesla is superior. And you're right about making the competition think that they have a fighting chance, otherwise they'll simply give up and quit. . Tesla is aiming for full autonomy (level 5) and therefore driver monitoring is not their focus, if they wanted they can simply activate the interior camera by a software update, but I don't think they'll do it.
Talking about TSLA stock, I did pull out a bit - owing to the volatility due to COVID / potential defeat of Trump (I personally don't care whoever wins..) but will go harder soon....
12% share in record month!
The European passenger plugin market is on fire, having registered a record 160,000 registrations in September (+166% YoY), placing last month plugin share at 12% share (7.1% BEV), and pulling the 2020 PEV share to 9% (4.9% for BEVs alone), which is getting mighty close to the disruptive 10% mark....
..So expect next year to be #Disruption '21!
This sales push is benefiting BEVs (91,615 units, +120% YoY), but especially PHEVs, whose sales are jumping through the roof (+268%!), pulling the BEV/PHEV breakdown close to parity between both technologies, as plugin hybrids have 46% of registrations this year.
With fresh units coming from Fremont, the Model 3 had the expected end-of-quarter high tide, winning last month Best Seller title, its second in a row, and despite losing the Best Seller title to the Californian, the Renault Zoe scored a record month, with over 11,000 deliveries, while the last place of the podium went to the VW ID.3, that officially landed with a bang, with over 8,000 registrations, although many were expecting VW's hatchback to land with a five-digit performance...Maybe in October?
Looking at September Top 5 Models:
#1 Tesla Model 3 – The sports sedan returned to form in a high tide month, by having 16,125 deliveries last month, a new Year Best. Regarding September, the Model 3 main markets were the UK (4,800 units, a new record), Germany (2,776), Norway (1,116 units, new year best) and France (1,083). While October will see the Model 3 having a slow month, November should bring the sedan back into the first positions again (maybe with the help of the Made-in-China SR version?), while December could bring another Best Seller title for the Californian.
#2 Renault Zoe – Super-September brought a record 11,026 deliveries to the French model, with Renault going all in and milking its EV until the last drop, in order to keep five-digit scores until the end of the year and recover the European Best Seller title. Last month, the main market was Germany (3,603 units, new record), followed by France (2,878), the UK (1,800 units, new record) and Italy (676). For the coming months, expect the Zoe to continue on the top positions, running with the Tesla Model 3 and VW ID.3 for the leadership.
#3 Volkswagen ID.3 - After months (years?) of anticipation, the 2021 Best Selling EV in Europe has finally landed, having delivered the first 8,571 registrations, surely the first of several (hundreds of) thousands. Volkswagen's new Golf IX MEB EV main markets for September delivery were Norway (1,989 units), Germany (1,771) and the UK (650), with France (616) and The Netherlands (609) not far off. Expect VW's new baby to become a familiar face in the medal positions, running with the Tesla Model 3 and Renault Zoe for the monthly Best Seller titles.
#4 Hyundai Kona EV – Chronically limited by production constraints, Hyundai has finally opened the flood gates for its small crossover, thanks to the Czech plant production, scoring a record 6,143 deliveries in Super-September and allowing another Top 5 standing. After the waiting list being finally emptied (in October?), we will finally start to see the real demand level of the small crossover (3,000/month? More?). Back to last month performance, the UK was the best market for the Hyundai nameplate, with a record 1,800 deliveries, followed by Germany (1,526 units) and France (559).
#5 Mercedes A250e – Thanks to competitive pricing (for a Premium brand), usable electric range (64 kms / 40 mi WLTP), and even CCS availability, the compact Mercedes has become the maker star player, with September registering a record 4,772 units, it's 3rd record performance in a row, with the biggest market being the UK (1,900 units, a new record), followed by Germany, with 1,404 registrations, and France (382 units, new record). Is this the future of plugin hybrid models?
I didn't ignore it, I gave you the numbers to back up my statement which is still true.
they aren’t selling their vehicles or energy products at a loss, it doesn’t cost more to make and deliver a Model 3 than they sell it for
Their vehicles and energy sectors are profitable, Their gross profit margin in Q3 excluding credits was 23.7%, but they are taking all that profit and EV credits and using it to expand like crazy, building out 3 factories on 3 continents right now.
they are choosing to reinvest that those profits to build the company faster, that’s not a bad thing or a sign that they’re struggling financially in any way as you seem to be implying.
Amazon had the same strategy for a decade where they reinvested all of their profits into the company so it could grow faster and stay ahead of the competition, that worked out pretty well for Amazon and I think that same strategy will work out well for Tesla and for the planet.
I'm not disputing the report. Their criteria was strictly level 2-3 autonomy and within that given criteria GM super cruise excels (even though it cannot recognize or respond to traffic lights, or operate outside the geofenced highways). But the report also mentioned that in the actual performance, Tesla is superior. And you're right about making the competition think that they have a fighting chance, otherwise they'll simply give up and quit. . Tesla is aiming for full autonomy (level 5) and therefore driver monitoring is not their focus, if they wanted they can simply activate the interior camera by a software update, but I don't think they'll do it.
Talking about TSLA stock, I did pull out a bit - owing to the volatility due to COVID / potential defeat of Trump (I personally don't care whoever wins..) but will go harder soon....
It’s irresponsible, even if it would delay rollout another 6-12 months it would make more sense to have trained employees test the beta in the name of safety.
I’m aware of them having the camera to monitor alertness - hell, some companies have had that for years now, before autonomous vehicles were linked to them. It makes no sense that Tesla is not utilizing that capability, especially when it’s already in place with an otherwise unfinished product. That’s why they were dinged heavily in that comparison.
My guess is Tesla will enable the driver monitoring at some point, at least until they truly to get a point when driver intervention is not necessary. Or potentially when their hand is forced by legislation.
Without L5 autonomy, “Full Self Driving” is a misnomer. I don’t know if Elon truly believed they could have achieved in such a short time frame (1-2 years) when he promised they would in 2015/16, but he’s over promised and under delivered.
I still have Tesla stock too, but way too weary of its stability to make it a sizable part of my portfolio. Good luck.
they aren’t selling their vehicles or energy products at a loss, it doesn’t cost more to make and deliver a Model 3 than they sell it for
Go argue with the SEC, the bottom line is, according to their own submission to the SEC, if Tesla were to not claim the pollution credits, they would have reported a net loss.
It’s irresponsible, even if it would delay rollout another 6-12 months it would make more sense to have trained employees test the beta in the name of safety.
I’m aware of them having the camera to monitor alertness - hell, some companies have had that for years now, before autonomous vehicles were linked to them. It makes no sense that Tesla is not utilizing that capability, especially when it’s already in place with an otherwise unfinished product. That’s why they were dinged heavily in that comparison.
My guess is Tesla will enable the driver monitoring at some point, at least until they truly to get a point when driver intervention is not necessary. Or potentially when their hand is forced by legislation.
Without L5 autonomy, “Full Self Driving” is a misnomer. I don’t know if Elon truly believed they could have achieved in such a short time frame (1-2 years) when he promised they would in 2015/16, but he’s over promised and under delivered.
I still have Tesla stock too, but way too weary of its stability to make it a sizable part of my portfolio. Good luck.
Agree, may be you’re right. It’ll be prudent for Tesla activate the camera before they release it fully for public.
I believe Tesla is somewhere close to level 4 autonomy at present where only minimal driver intervention is needed at some point and most of the driving is done by car itself. For that to be implemented on public roads, it makes sense to activate the camera.
To me it isn’t a far fetched idea the they can have fully functioning Robotaxis by next year - but part of that is hope too, nothing concrete.
Go argue with the SEC, the bottom line is, according to their own submission to the SEC, if Tesla were to not claim the pollution credits, they would have reported a net loss.
most of the credits get put back into R&D but I see your point.
kind of crazy that other automakers are paying Tesla so they can stay with ice vehicles
10-26-2020, 01:42 PM
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