Tesla: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
#482
What's the skidpad of the MDX with 18s, I bet it's not .87Gs.
Why can't these Honda R&D gods you speak of design an SUV EV that can tow anything?
#483
Panasonic sees strong demand from Tesla, in talks to expand Nevada battery plant
The positive outlook comes after production troubles and delays at Tesla strained the company’s partnership with Panasonic over the past few years.
Panasonic recently lost its status as Tesla’s exclusive battery supplier, but has been able to turn around the U.S. joint battery business as demand for Tesla’s electric cars soar.
Last month Tesla reported its third consecutive quarterly profit despite the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic, taking investors by surprise.
“We are seeing strong demand from Tesla” beyond the Nevada plant’s current capacity of 35 gigawatt hours per year, Panasonic Chief Financial Officer Hirokazu Umeda told an earnings briefing on Monday. “We are in discussions right now” about expanding the plant’s capacity, he said.
The plant made a profit in January-March for the second consecutive quarter, he said.
Umeda hinted that Panasonic has been developing new batteries with Tesla. “We will be working to improve materials and technologies throughout this financial year,” he said.
The Tesla battery business provided a bright spot in Panasonic’s otherwise grim earnings, hit by plant closures and supply chain disruptions for its laptops, washing machines, automotive components and factory equipment.
Panasonic recently lost its status as Tesla’s exclusive battery supplier, but has been able to turn around the U.S. joint battery business as demand for Tesla’s electric cars soar.
Last month Tesla reported its third consecutive quarterly profit despite the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic, taking investors by surprise.
“We are seeing strong demand from Tesla” beyond the Nevada plant’s current capacity of 35 gigawatt hours per year, Panasonic Chief Financial Officer Hirokazu Umeda told an earnings briefing on Monday. “We are in discussions right now” about expanding the plant’s capacity, he said.
The plant made a profit in January-March for the second consecutive quarter, he said.
Umeda hinted that Panasonic has been developing new batteries with Tesla. “We will be working to improve materials and technologies throughout this financial year,” he said.
The Tesla battery business provided a bright spot in Panasonic’s otherwise grim earnings, hit by plant closures and supply chain disruptions for its laptops, washing machines, automotive components and factory equipment.
#484
you are mistaken that Electric vehicle tow capacity can come even close to fraction of currrent ICE vehicles. even if it has losing efficiency. ICE vehicle with big tanks have 500 to 600 mile range on freeways.
MDX hybrid is niche vehicle with lowered powered 3.0L engine.
All MDX are using same width all season tires with same suspension setup. there is no difference in handling except for wider tires in MDX Aspec
overpriced talent cannot match this range from 2014 MDX that is 8 years old technology.
Ridgline is same platform as MDX. It beat competition in towing on grades. 50% efficiency loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohnL47A03dA
Model X need a rescue.
MDX hybrid is niche vehicle with lowered powered 3.0L engine.
All MDX are using same width all season tires with same suspension setup. there is no difference in handling except for wider tires in MDX Aspec
overpriced talent cannot match this range from 2014 MDX that is 8 years old technology.
https://www.edmunds.com/acura/mdx/20...t/wrap-up.html
The grip provided by the SH-AWD system gives me the feeling that if I wanted to blow past the speed limit (I never would) I could, and the MDX would stay on course. If I need the MDX to get up to freeway speed, it is more than willing. It moves as easily as an aggressive car that handles really well and can seat seven." — Matt Jones
"The most impressive feat was its single tank range record of 541.1 miles. That's a pretty impressive number for an SUV of its size. That same tank also netted the MDX its most efficient average mileage number of 29.9 mpg, another impressive number for a three-row vehicle with a big V6 under the hood." — Dan Edmunds
The grip provided by the SH-AWD system gives me the feeling that if I wanted to blow past the speed limit (I never would) I could, and the MDX would stay on course. If I need the MDX to get up to freeway speed, it is more than willing. It moves as easily as an aggressive car that handles really well and can seat seven." — Matt Jones
"The most impressive feat was its single tank range record of 541.1 miles. That's a pretty impressive number for an SUV of its size. That same tank also netted the MDX its most efficient average mileage number of 29.9 mpg, another impressive number for a three-row vehicle with a big V6 under the hood." — Dan Edmunds
Ridgline is same platform as MDX. It beat competition in towing on grades. 50% efficiency loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohnL47A03dA
Model X need a rescue.
#485
Bigger sidewalls decrease skidpad Gs that's why sports cars have bigger rims with smaller sidewalls. The 18s will not have the same skidpad as the 20s which is why you choose a different trim.
Yes that video shows that both vehicles ICE and EV see a similar large percentage reduction in their range when towing. Thanks for confirming my point.
When will they test the MDX Sport Hybrid, I bet they don't even make it out of the driveway with that POS? Overrated Honda R&D can't even make an EV SUV that can tow 1 pound.
Yes that video shows that both vehicles ICE and EV see a similar large percentage reduction in their range when towing. Thanks for confirming my point.
When will they test the MDX Sport Hybrid, I bet they don't even make it out of the driveway with that POS? Overrated Honda R&D can't even make an EV SUV that can tow 1 pound.
#486
all sports cars increase width of tires and rims. some sport cars rear tires have 315 width. BMW M series almost approaching 300 width tires.
base Model Y has 255 width tires.
thats why i specified 245 size on MDX. that are skinniest tires for this class of SUV. this is 10 year old platform developed during previous financial crises.
new MDX platform is far more robust. it will compete with new Off road package of BMW X5.
DId Model X went on same grade as Ridgeline at same speed?. Model X was already reduced to 30% of range and people were not longer trusting its computer. there is no confidence with electric vehicles and towing.
Honda figures can be trusted what ever they were showing at time.
base Model Y has 255 width tires.
thats why i specified 245 size on MDX. that are skinniest tires for this class of SUV. this is 10 year old platform developed during previous financial crises.
new MDX platform is far more robust. it will compete with new Off road package of BMW X5.
DId Model X went on same grade as Ridgeline at same speed?. Model X was already reduced to 30% of range and people were not longer trusting its computer. there is no confidence with electric vehicles and towing.
Honda figures can be trusted what ever they were showing at time.
Last edited by SSFTSX; 05-18-2020 at 01:33 PM.
#487
The size of the sidewall also plays a factor in how many Gs it can handle around a corner, stop denying that. If you had 2 tires made with the same materials, diameter, and tread width and the only difference was one's sidewall was 1 inch thick and the other's sidewall was 6 inches thick, the wheel with the 6 inch sidewall would perform much worse around a corner.
#488
Does the MDX have bidirectional charging? Can you plug an MDX into your home and power your house off of the gas tank? Can you fill the MDX gas tank when energy prices are cheap at night and then empty it during the day during peak demand for a profit? Will the MDX keep the electronics of your house running during a power outage?
Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features
Electrek has learned that Tesla has already prepared its onboard vehicle charger for bidirectional charging.
Marco Gaxiola, an electrical engineer who participated in a Model 3 teardown for a Tesla competitor, reverse engineered the electric car’s charger and found it to be ready for bidirectional charging.
He told Electrek:
What I learned on reverse engineering the Model 3 charger, was that the design is fully bidirectional. This means power can be converted from AC to DC the same way as the previous example, but also power can flow in reverse direction, coming from the battery and ending up on the AC side. This is known as DC to AC inverter, and when this technology is present in a vehicle, it is known as V2G (Vehicle to Grid).
Here’s a schematic of the charger that Gaxiola produced as part of the reverse-engineering of the vehicle:
The engineer added about the design of Tesla’s onboard charger:
To complement this, the bidirectional design is replicated 3 times across the same PCB on the Model 3 charger. Another example of redundant design that assures a working process even if one of the circuits fails. Additionally, it is 3 phase design, so it can be used worldwide.
Here’s the Model 3 charger that Gaxiola reverse-engineered:
Gaxiola believes that the vehicle to grid capacity in the Model 3 could be enabled through an over-the-air software update.
In terms of practical features for owners, they could potentially power their house with their Tesla vehicle during a power outage or charge another electric vehicle with their own.
However, the real value of bidirectional capacity lies in grid services.
With the owners’ permission, Tesla could offer electric utilities the ability to access power from the vehicles on the network in other to offset electricity demand during peak hours.
Tesla already has the capacity to do that with its Autobidder product operating with virtual power plants consisting of Powerwalls in Australia and Vermont.
The only difference is that Tesla vehicles would be providing power instead of home battery packs, like Powerwalls.
While the concern of faster degradation due to the battery packs cycling more than by just driving on the roads is still there, it is becoming less of a concern as Tesla keeps improving battery longevity with new battery cells — leading to its “million-mile battery.”
Tesla owners would still have the option to opt in or out of the program, and they would also likely control when the electric utilities can access the energy in their vehicles.
As Straubel previously pointed out, with a million vehicles on the road, Tesla’s fleet has a theoretical 10GW demand offsetting capacity, which is extremely valuable to electric utilities.
Of course, this capacity is distributed around the world, but it is still significant in markets where Tesla vehicles are popular, and local utilities would be more than happy to pay to access that power.
Owners would be compensated for the utility using their vehicles, and Tesla would likely get a commission through its Autobidder platform.
It’s a win-win-win situation.
Now that we know that Tesla already has hundreds of thousands of Model 3 vehicles bidirectional-ready on the road, I think this new product could be released sooner than people think.
One of the most interesting features of Tesla’s implementation of bidirectional charging is that they don’t require an inverter outside the vehicle, like the Wallbox Quasar used on the Nissan Leaf.
It would work with Tesla’s own Wall Connector or potentially with any home charging station.
Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features
Electrek has learned that Tesla has already prepared its onboard vehicle charger for bidirectional charging.
Marco Gaxiola, an electrical engineer who participated in a Model 3 teardown for a Tesla competitor, reverse engineered the electric car’s charger and found it to be ready for bidirectional charging.
He told Electrek:
What I learned on reverse engineering the Model 3 charger, was that the design is fully bidirectional. This means power can be converted from AC to DC the same way as the previous example, but also power can flow in reverse direction, coming from the battery and ending up on the AC side. This is known as DC to AC inverter, and when this technology is present in a vehicle, it is known as V2G (Vehicle to Grid).
Here’s a schematic of the charger that Gaxiola produced as part of the reverse-engineering of the vehicle:
The engineer added about the design of Tesla’s onboard charger:
To complement this, the bidirectional design is replicated 3 times across the same PCB on the Model 3 charger. Another example of redundant design that assures a working process even if one of the circuits fails. Additionally, it is 3 phase design, so it can be used worldwide.
Here’s the Model 3 charger that Gaxiola reverse-engineered:
Gaxiola believes that the vehicle to grid capacity in the Model 3 could be enabled through an over-the-air software update.
Electrek’s Take
This has massive implications. It means that Tesla could eventually unlock a lot more value from its customer fleet, both for the vehicle owners and for Tesla itself.In terms of practical features for owners, they could potentially power their house with their Tesla vehicle during a power outage or charge another electric vehicle with their own.
However, the real value of bidirectional capacity lies in grid services.
With the owners’ permission, Tesla could offer electric utilities the ability to access power from the vehicles on the network in other to offset electricity demand during peak hours.
Tesla already has the capacity to do that with its Autobidder product operating with virtual power plants consisting of Powerwalls in Australia and Vermont.
The only difference is that Tesla vehicles would be providing power instead of home battery packs, like Powerwalls.
While the concern of faster degradation due to the battery packs cycling more than by just driving on the roads is still there, it is becoming less of a concern as Tesla keeps improving battery longevity with new battery cells — leading to its “million-mile battery.”
Tesla owners would still have the option to opt in or out of the program, and they would also likely control when the electric utilities can access the energy in their vehicles.
As Straubel previously pointed out, with a million vehicles on the road, Tesla’s fleet has a theoretical 10GW demand offsetting capacity, which is extremely valuable to electric utilities.
Of course, this capacity is distributed around the world, but it is still significant in markets where Tesla vehicles are popular, and local utilities would be more than happy to pay to access that power.
Owners would be compensated for the utility using their vehicles, and Tesla would likely get a commission through its Autobidder platform.
It’s a win-win-win situation.
Now that we know that Tesla already has hundreds of thousands of Model 3 vehicles bidirectional-ready on the road, I think this new product could be released sooner than people think.
One of the most interesting features of Tesla’s implementation of bidirectional charging is that they don’t require an inverter outside the vehicle, like the Wallbox Quasar used on the Nissan Leaf.
It would work with Tesla’s own Wall Connector or potentially with any home charging station.
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Comfy (05-20-2020)
#490
Does the MDX have bidirectional charging? Can you plug an MDX into your home and power your house off of the gas tank? Can you fill the MDX gas tank when energy prices are cheap at night and then empty it during the day during peak demand for a profit? Will the MDX keep the electronics of your house running during a power outage?
If I lived in extreme weather area. I will get Honda generator to run either air-conditioning or water-heater-heating in cold weather.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honda-Ul...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
Ultra Quiet 7000-Watt Gasoline Powered Inverter Electric Start Generator
Ultra Quiet 7000-Watt Gasoline Powered Inverter Electric Start Generator
- EU7000iS operates at 52 to 58 dB(A), which is less noise than a normal conversation. This makes it ideal for supplemental RV power, home backup, powering outdoor events and any other activity that requires quiet operation
- Fuel efficient: runs up to 16-hours on 5.1 Gal. of fuel thanks to the exclusive Eco-Throttle system
- Advanced inverter technology - reliable power for computers and other sensitive equipment, Honda's inverter technology means stable, clean power in a smaller package
- Convenient push button electric start- easy recoil starting is also available as a backup
#491
Wow, so $5000 more for a feature that Tesla will add over a free software update. Why buy and MDX and an almost 300lb power generator when the Model Y can do both? Does the MDX have 8 cameras that can detect motion and record anything that happens around the car? Can you leave your dog in the MDX with the motor off for an extended period of time with the AC running like the Model Y can? Can you comprehend that the Model Y has all sorts of useful capabilities that ICE vehicles can't do, and that they're more important than the turn radius? Or will you continue to ignore the added value that Teslas gain with every new software update?
#492
having more cameras have no relationships with usefulness and capability of vehicles. I am sure next MDX will have more phone connectivity to control various features and much better emergency braking.
These are permanent advantages.
Next MDX will be Spacious and Quieter.
Next MDX will tow more than Model Y
Next MDX if get Plug-In or Hybrid. It will have 600+ range with regular range 500+
Next MDX will be far more luxurious than Model Y.
Next MDX will have cheaper tire setup with long life and many light weight accessory wheels.
Next MDX Price and lease deals will be better and they will get better with time as car gets older.. there is no overpriced talent.
you don't have any figures about Model Y electric power supply. you still need generator to power heavy motors.. what if I need to run a tread mill at home? Gyms are closed and unsantizied. how long Model Y can power a tread mill when electricity out and than my huge Referigerator that I can store food for months with 85inch at home TV.?
These are permanent advantages.
Next MDX will be Spacious and Quieter.
Next MDX will tow more than Model Y
Next MDX if get Plug-In or Hybrid. It will have 600+ range with regular range 500+
Next MDX will be far more luxurious than Model Y.
Next MDX will have cheaper tire setup with long life and many light weight accessory wheels.
Next MDX Price and lease deals will be better and they will get better with time as car gets older.. there is no overpriced talent.
you don't have any figures about Model Y electric power supply. you still need generator to power heavy motors.. what if I need to run a tread mill at home? Gyms are closed and unsantizied. how long Model Y can power a tread mill when electricity out and than my huge Referigerator that I can store food for months with 85inch at home TV.?
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Costco (05-21-2020)
#494
V2G has been talked about for a while now, Tesla has been relatively quiet about it, I guess because JB Straubel didn't like the extra wear that it has on the battery. But now that they've made their batteries last 2-3x longer you can do V2G and not kill the battery in 5 years.
I'm curious what the peak output will be. It probably won't be limited by the battery, I'd guess either the inverter or your electrical panel in the home might be the limitation. My friend has Tesla solar and a powerwall and has a preorder for the Y. The Powerwall has a 14kwh capacity and 7kw peak output which wasn't enough to start up his AC, he'd need to add a 2nd powerwall to handle the peak output of his home AC. So I doubt that Honda generator could handle his house.
The Model Y has a 75kwh battery so it can output a much higher peak output, but could the inverter handle it? The battery can charge at 250kw DC but that actually bypasses the builtin inverter when you use the Supercharger. The Tesla home wall connector has a max output of 48 amps or 11.5kw @240v, so that's much better than some crappy overrated R&D designed Honda generator that can only output 7kw and costs 10x more. So if it can accept a 48A signal from the Y battery that could power a lot of the house for a day.
Then when PG&E shutdowns the electricity for weeks on end and there's gas lines a mile long so no gas for your overrated generator you can use the Tesla solar panels to power your house and your car and then run your house off of your car battery when the sun goes down while your neighbors sit in the dark for weeks because they bought an Acura MDX and an expensive generator than ran out of gas. Sad.
I'm curious what the peak output will be. It probably won't be limited by the battery, I'd guess either the inverter or your electrical panel in the home might be the limitation. My friend has Tesla solar and a powerwall and has a preorder for the Y. The Powerwall has a 14kwh capacity and 7kw peak output which wasn't enough to start up his AC, he'd need to add a 2nd powerwall to handle the peak output of his home AC. So I doubt that Honda generator could handle his house.
The Model Y has a 75kwh battery so it can output a much higher peak output, but could the inverter handle it? The battery can charge at 250kw DC but that actually bypasses the builtin inverter when you use the Supercharger. The Tesla home wall connector has a max output of 48 amps or 11.5kw @240v, so that's much better than some crappy overrated R&D designed Honda generator that can only output 7kw and costs 10x more. So if it can accept a 48A signal from the Y battery that could power a lot of the house for a day.
Then when PG&E shutdowns the electricity for weeks on end and there's gas lines a mile long so no gas for your overrated generator you can use the Tesla solar panels to power your house and your car and then run your house off of your car battery when the sun goes down while your neighbors sit in the dark for weeks because they bought an Acura MDX and an expensive generator than ran out of gas. Sad.
#495
This is crazy, Sunrun the biggest residential solar installer in the US has started using Tesla Powerwalls in their installations. Because there isn't a home battery better and they MUST use Tesla's products in order to stay relevant. That's like Honda being unable to create a good motor that can compete with Toyota so they have to buy Toyota's motors to put in there cars or risk going out of business.
But now if you buy a Model Y it comes with more than 5 Powerwalls worth of energy storage with it and soon you'll be able to run your house off of your car.
That's like Bing search being powered by Google. Coke using Pepsi's recipe. UPS delivering packages with FedEx trucks.
But now if you buy a Model Y it comes with more than 5 Powerwalls worth of energy storage with it and soon you'll be able to run your house off of your car.
That's like Bing search being powered by Google. Coke using Pepsi's recipe. UPS delivering packages with FedEx trucks.
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 05-20-2020 at 02:18 PM.
#496
you are now clinching straws. I can tow big gas tank in winter when gas prices are cheaper and enjoyed all that gas in summer with Honda generator.
If I lived in extreme weather area. I will get Honda generator to run either air-conditioning or water-heater-heating in cold weather.
If I lived in extreme weather area. I will get Honda generator to run either air-conditioning or water-heater-heating in cold weather.
This is the same logic as buying a flip phone and a digital camera instead of an iphone, and really thinking that it's a superior solution and that more people will want to do that instead of buying one device that does both well. Remember flip video cameras? The consumer handheld camera market basically died after the iPhone came out, no one wants two devices.
#497
[But now if you buy a Model Y it comes with more than 5 Powerwalls worth of energy storage with it and soon you'll be able to run your house off of your car.
Generator is portable and not have expensive installation cost of solar and powerwall. new honda two generators can be interconnected and make it more powerfull. Honda do not tolerate overpriced talent and hype.
most people in high priced areas moved around every few years. they not going to install it. some people not like the solar on home designs.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-on-every-roof
California's Solar Mandate to Allow Homes Without Solar
https://www.smart-energy.com/industr...eries-storage/
Moixa, a smart battery company has announced the completion of an £8.6 million funding round, as global investors led by Honda backed its vision of managing millions of home energy storage systems and electric vehicles (EVs)Moixa has pioneered smart charging of batteries and EVs with its patented GridShare technology. It currently manages home energy storage systems in 7000 homes in the UK and Japan
.
Moixa, a smart battery company has announced the completion of an £8.6 million funding round, as global investors led by Honda backed its vision of managing millions of home energy storage systems and electric vehicles (EVs)Moixa has pioneered smart charging of batteries and EVs with its patented GridShare technology. It currently manages home energy storage systems in 7000 homes in the UK and Japan
.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/aep-honda-partner-to-test-vehicle-grid-integration-with-used-ev-batteries/555176/
in Europe.
https://www.mobilityhouse.com/int_en...te-europe.html
The Mobility House installs new bi-directional charging technology at Honda R&D Europe
The Mobility House installs new bi-directional charging technology at Honda R&D Europe
#498
This is the same logic as buying a flip phone and a digital camera instead of an iphone, and really thinking that it's a superior solution and that more people will want to do that instead of buying one device that does both well. Remember flip video cameras? The consumer handheld camera market basically died after the iPhone came out, no one wants two devices.
you cannot change the fact that in 2012 Model S had 250 mile range. and in year 2020 Model Y has 300 mile range. The so called 300 mile range is not even 100 mile when tow or inclines under loads.
10 years and practically no progress. Interior was cheapened to make price acceptable.
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Comfy (05-27-2020)
#503
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1ZF03N
New Tesla registrations in California nearly halves in fourth quarter: data
read bit deeper into Renault-Nissan issue you will get some idea .
New Tesla registrations in California nearly halves in fourth quarter: data
read bit deeper into Renault-Nissan issue you will get some idea .
Meanwhile no one is buying Renault
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Comfy (05-30-2020)
#504
Also read that Renault is cutting 15,000 jobs.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52845849
That French superior management skills didn’t work out that well it seems. .
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52845849
That French superior management skills didn’t work out that well it seems. .
#505
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1266436499341545472
Meanwhile no one is buying Renault
https://twitter.com/ReutersBiz/statu...72911532199936
Meanwhile no one is buying Renault
https://twitter.com/ReutersBiz/statu...72911532199936
These are global job cuts needed to make faster transition to electric and hybrid vehicles and make production back to France. French will not be making electic vehicles like Tesla is doing in Berlin.
https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSP6N2CB01P
PARIS, May 26 (Reuters) - Carmaker Renault will join PSA and energy major Total in an all-French venture manufacturing batteries for electric and hybrid cars, President Emmanuel Macron said on Tuesday
Speaking after a visit to a Valeo car parts factory, Macron said he aimed to make France the top producer of clean vehicles in Europe and unveiled a financial support plan worth more than 8 billion euros for the industry.
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PARIS, May 26 (Reuters) - Carmaker Renault will join PSA and energy major Total in an all-French venture manufacturing batteries for electric and hybrid cars, President Emmanuel Macron said on Tuesday
Speaking after a visit to a Valeo car parts factory, Macron said he aimed to make France the top producer of clean vehicles in Europe and unveiled a financial support plan worth more than 8 billion euros for the industry.
.
#506
18000 of one model in one state. They sold more Model 3s than Honda sold Civics. Civics cost much less but they still couldn't outsell the Model 3. Honda's overrated R&D got outsold by a much more expensive Tesla. Sad.
Why did the pioneers at Renault wait until now to start seriously transitioning to EVs? Why did the wait for Tesla to show them the way? Why did they wait for the governments to force them to switch to EVs? If they had the best talent they'd be the ones leading not following. Why aren't the fat profits from the Renault Zoe funding their transition? Why did they only sell 61,000 EVs last year worldwide? Tesla sold more than that in their 1Q 2019 and that was Tesla's weakest quarter that year and Tesla's are more expensive. Tesla is using the success of their vehicles and shareholder confidence to fund future projects and build more factories worldwide meanwhile Renault is closing factories, firing thousands of people, and France's finance minister says they're close to bankruptcy. Do you think if Tesla tried to hire the best talent at Renault they'd all turn down the skyrocketing company to stay and work for a company that's laying of thousands and is close to bankruptcy? Sad.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...ectric-pick-up
LMAO this guy is dying to get out of that Renault hell hole and go work with the company that he says has "perfect design."
Why did the pioneers at Renault wait until now to start seriously transitioning to EVs? Why did the wait for Tesla to show them the way? Why did they wait for the governments to force them to switch to EVs? If they had the best talent they'd be the ones leading not following. Why aren't the fat profits from the Renault Zoe funding their transition? Why did they only sell 61,000 EVs last year worldwide? Tesla sold more than that in their 1Q 2019 and that was Tesla's weakest quarter that year and Tesla's are more expensive. Tesla is using the success of their vehicles and shareholder confidence to fund future projects and build more factories worldwide meanwhile Renault is closing factories, firing thousands of people, and France's finance minister says they're close to bankruptcy. Do you think if Tesla tried to hire the best talent at Renault they'd all turn down the skyrocketing company to stay and work for a company that's laying of thousands and is close to bankruptcy? Sad.
One of the world's leading automotive designers called Tesla Cybertruck "perfect design." François Leboine, head of the concept car division of the French auto giant Renault, praised Tesla for its striking and revolutionary design
LMAO this guy is dying to get out of that Renault hell hole and go work with the company that he says has "perfect design."
French Giant Looks at Tesla With Burning Envy
On one side of the Atlantic, Tesla Inc. is capitalizing on its soaring share price by selling $2 billion in stock so it can build more electric vehicles. On the other, French manufacturer Renault SA has been forced to cut its dividend by 70% and announce a big reduction in fixed costs so it can afford to do the same.
Dwindling profits and Renault’s drastic remedies were mirrored this week by its Japanese alliance partner Nissan Motor Co., as well at Daimler AG. (Renault has an engineering partnership with Daimler and owns a small stake in the German car and truck maker.) Their problems aren’t identical but all three had expanded their workforces in anticipation of demand that hasn’t materialized and now they have to tighten their belts to pay for expensive electric vehicles, for which demand remains uncertain.
Renault’s shares are near their lowest level in eight years, which means the company is capitalized at barely 10 billion euros ($11 billion), a sum that includes the 43% stake Renault owns in Nissan. Needless to say, that’s a sliver of what Tesla is worth, even though the U.S. company’s annual output is still almost a rounding error for the Renault-Nissan alliance.
This juxtaposition sends a crystal clear message: Carmakers that grew fat and happy producing combustion engine vehicles won’t get any help from the stock market now that they’ve decided to embrace an electric future. Instead the gasoline gang are going to fund these changes themselves and it’s going to be painful, for both employees and shareholders.
Long-established automakers have decided that their salvation is to be found in alliances and partnerships, which spread the cost of developing expensive technology over a greater number of car sales. It’s why Renault tried to merge with Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, before Peugeot-owner PSA Group beat them to it.
But in Renault’s case its links to other manufactures are amplifying its problems right now, not solving them. Relations with Nissan fell apart when former alliance boss Carlos Ghosn was arrested and remain fragile now that he’s free to settle scores. Both sides have since hired new CEOs but their shareholders aren’t yet ready to buy the story that harmony has been restored.
With its own profits slumping, Nissan can’t afford to pay big dividends to Renault and the French are also earning less from the Daimler partnership. The upshot is that Renault is a bit squeezed for cash — net cash at the automotive unit dwindled to just 1.7 billion euros at the end of December (though gross liquidity, including available credit lines, was a more respectable 16 billion euros).
One way Renault could free up some money would be to sell part of its Nissan stake, which might have the added benefit of helping to re-balance the alliance in Nissan’s favor, something the Japanese have long sought. The trouble is Nissan’s shares have halved in value over the last two years so selling now wouldn’t provide Renault with nearly as much as it once would. Interim CEO Clotilde Delbos all but ruled out such a move on Friday.
So it’s no wonder that Renault has opted to drastically scale back its own dividend and will try to cut costs by 2 billion euros in the next three years. Delbos, who’s also the chief financial officer, didn’t go into much detail about how those savings will be delivered but the company plans to review its “industrial footprint,” which suggests plant closures are a possibility. (Alliance partner Nissan has already announced 12,500 job cuts, while Daimler is targeting at least 10,000.)
Lowering costs won’t be straight forward. New Renault CEO Luca de Meo, a former Volkswagen AG executive, doesn’t start until July and French unions aren’t known for championing efforts to slash jobs. In the near term, restructuring costs will also put further pressure on Renault’s cash flow and the coronavirus could yet create unexpected problems.
But unlike at Tesla, Renault doesn’t have a queue of wealthy supporters clamoring to help fund this epochal clean-vehicle transition. One way or other, employees and existing shareholders will end up paying.
Dwindling profits and Renault’s drastic remedies were mirrored this week by its Japanese alliance partner Nissan Motor Co., as well at Daimler AG. (Renault has an engineering partnership with Daimler and owns a small stake in the German car and truck maker.) Their problems aren’t identical but all three had expanded their workforces in anticipation of demand that hasn’t materialized and now they have to tighten their belts to pay for expensive electric vehicles, for which demand remains uncertain.
Renault’s shares are near their lowest level in eight years, which means the company is capitalized at barely 10 billion euros ($11 billion), a sum that includes the 43% stake Renault owns in Nissan. Needless to say, that’s a sliver of what Tesla is worth, even though the U.S. company’s annual output is still almost a rounding error for the Renault-Nissan alliance.
This juxtaposition sends a crystal clear message: Carmakers that grew fat and happy producing combustion engine vehicles won’t get any help from the stock market now that they’ve decided to embrace an electric future. Instead the gasoline gang are going to fund these changes themselves and it’s going to be painful, for both employees and shareholders.
Long-established automakers have decided that their salvation is to be found in alliances and partnerships, which spread the cost of developing expensive technology over a greater number of car sales. It’s why Renault tried to merge with Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, before Peugeot-owner PSA Group beat them to it.
But in Renault’s case its links to other manufactures are amplifying its problems right now, not solving them. Relations with Nissan fell apart when former alliance boss Carlos Ghosn was arrested and remain fragile now that he’s free to settle scores. Both sides have since hired new CEOs but their shareholders aren’t yet ready to buy the story that harmony has been restored.
With its own profits slumping, Nissan can’t afford to pay big dividends to Renault and the French are also earning less from the Daimler partnership. The upshot is that Renault is a bit squeezed for cash — net cash at the automotive unit dwindled to just 1.7 billion euros at the end of December (though gross liquidity, including available credit lines, was a more respectable 16 billion euros).
One way Renault could free up some money would be to sell part of its Nissan stake, which might have the added benefit of helping to re-balance the alliance in Nissan’s favor, something the Japanese have long sought. The trouble is Nissan’s shares have halved in value over the last two years so selling now wouldn’t provide Renault with nearly as much as it once would. Interim CEO Clotilde Delbos all but ruled out such a move on Friday.
So it’s no wonder that Renault has opted to drastically scale back its own dividend and will try to cut costs by 2 billion euros in the next three years. Delbos, who’s also the chief financial officer, didn’t go into much detail about how those savings will be delivered but the company plans to review its “industrial footprint,” which suggests plant closures are a possibility. (Alliance partner Nissan has already announced 12,500 job cuts, while Daimler is targeting at least 10,000.)
Lowering costs won’t be straight forward. New Renault CEO Luca de Meo, a former Volkswagen AG executive, doesn’t start until July and French unions aren’t known for championing efforts to slash jobs. In the near term, restructuring costs will also put further pressure on Renault’s cash flow and the coronavirus could yet create unexpected problems.
But unlike at Tesla, Renault doesn’t have a queue of wealthy supporters clamoring to help fund this epochal clean-vehicle transition. One way or other, employees and existing shareholders will end up paying.
#507
Honda Civic and Honda Accord use same engine and there sales are twice of Model 3 in California.
A conceptual designer is not controlling industrial supply chain.. You do realize that Tesla North American part content is 50%.
while Renault was part of large multinational industrial group that even include East Dacia brand. that was German policy of spreading wealth and employment in Eastern EU without regard to competency.
Now they are bringing 100% supply chain to France. and almost all high end stuff will be built in France. and Germany will be paying for all for it.
A conceptual designer is not controlling industrial supply chain.. You do realize that Tesla North American part content is 50%.
while Renault was part of large multinational industrial group that even include East Dacia brand. that was German policy of spreading wealth and employment in Eastern EU without regard to competency.
Now they are bringing 100% supply chain to France. and almost all high end stuff will be built in France. and Germany will be paying for all for it.
#509
Tesla (TSLA) soars as market see SpaceX’s success as credibility boost for Elon Musk
Tesla’s stock (TSLA) is soaring today and significantly outpacing the market despite the lack of significant news about the automaker, but some analysts attribute the jump to SpaceX’s successful launch of two astronauts, which they see as a credibility boost for Elon Musk.
On Saturday, SpaceX successfully launched its Dragon spacecraft with NASA astronauts Bob Behnken and Doug Hurley on board — becoming the first private company to send humans to the International Space Station.
You can follow our coverage of the mission on our new sister site Space Explored.
The historic moment is a major milestone for Elon Musk’s SpaceX, and while it doesn’t seem to have much to do with the CEO’s other company, Tesla, some are attributing the stock price surge to the achievement.
Tesla’s stock is up more than 6% today:
That’s despite the fact that little news came out about the automaker since the market close last week, despite the accelerated delivery timeline for Model Y.
Some people attribute Tesla’s stock price boost to SpaceX’s successful mission this weekend.
Wedbush analysts Dan Ives wrote in a note to clients today:
While SpaceX and Tesla are separate companies despite some R&D cross pollination in some key areas, from a consumer perspective the Musk DNA remains the linchpin to both of these next generation technology stalwarts and we would characterize the historic success of SpaceX as another major shot in the arm to the Tesla brand.
Adam Joans, analyst at Morgan Stanley, wrote something similar today:
In our opinion, Elon Musk is every bit as identified with the creation and ambition of SpaceX as he is with Tesla. As such, we believe the success of SpaceX in achieving some of the most sophisticated challenges in science has a direct bearing on public, investor and government perception of his ability to lead and execute. So does Elon Musk’s success (or lack thereof) at SpaceX have any bearing on the market’s perception of Tesla? In our opinion, it does. While we cannot ascribe a dollar amount to this factor, the credibility of Musk’s leadership even outside of the automotive business, matters to Tesla.
While Musk’s boosted profile due to SpaceX’s success might have a positive impact on Tesla, the automaker also got some pretty good direct advertising during the launch.
Millions of people watch the live stream of the mission and they saw the astronauts being transported to the launchpad in Tesla Model X vehicles, which are the new official NASA vehicles to transport astronauts.
As we reported last week, Tesla and SpaceX have been ramping up synergy with more purchases between the two companies and even the former sending some workers to the latter.
Let me know when Renault or Honda or a sister company successfully launches a manned rocket to space and successfully lands the first stage of the rocket for reuse. Honda has the greatest R&D in the world, surprised they haven't landed on Mars yet. Every company that Elon runs is so inferior to Renault and Honda why weren't they first to do this?
Meanwhile Renault is circling the drain begging for a handout because of their horrible management and poor business choices. If they had focused their supposedly best in the world engineers exclusively on EVs like Tesla did since 2003 then maybe their market share wouldn't be 24 times lower than Tesla.
Tesla’s stock (TSLA) is soaring today and significantly outpacing the market despite the lack of significant news about the automaker, but some analysts attribute the jump to SpaceX’s successful launch of two astronauts, which they see as a credibility boost for Elon Musk.
On Saturday, SpaceX successfully launched its Dragon spacecraft with NASA astronauts Bob Behnken and Doug Hurley on board — becoming the first private company to send humans to the International Space Station.
You can follow our coverage of the mission on our new sister site Space Explored.
The historic moment is a major milestone for Elon Musk’s SpaceX, and while it doesn’t seem to have much to do with the CEO’s other company, Tesla, some are attributing the stock price surge to the achievement.
Tesla’s stock is up more than 6% today:
That’s despite the fact that little news came out about the automaker since the market close last week, despite the accelerated delivery timeline for Model Y.
Some people attribute Tesla’s stock price boost to SpaceX’s successful mission this weekend.
Wedbush analysts Dan Ives wrote in a note to clients today:
While SpaceX and Tesla are separate companies despite some R&D cross pollination in some key areas, from a consumer perspective the Musk DNA remains the linchpin to both of these next generation technology stalwarts and we would characterize the historic success of SpaceX as another major shot in the arm to the Tesla brand.
Adam Joans, analyst at Morgan Stanley, wrote something similar today:
In our opinion, Elon Musk is every bit as identified with the creation and ambition of SpaceX as he is with Tesla. As such, we believe the success of SpaceX in achieving some of the most sophisticated challenges in science has a direct bearing on public, investor and government perception of his ability to lead and execute. So does Elon Musk’s success (or lack thereof) at SpaceX have any bearing on the market’s perception of Tesla? In our opinion, it does. While we cannot ascribe a dollar amount to this factor, the credibility of Musk’s leadership even outside of the automotive business, matters to Tesla.
While Musk’s boosted profile due to SpaceX’s success might have a positive impact on Tesla, the automaker also got some pretty good direct advertising during the launch.
Millions of people watch the live stream of the mission and they saw the astronauts being transported to the launchpad in Tesla Model X vehicles, which are the new official NASA vehicles to transport astronauts.
As we reported last week, Tesla and SpaceX have been ramping up synergy with more purchases between the two companies and even the former sending some workers to the latter.
Meanwhile Renault is circling the drain begging for a handout because of their horrible management and poor business choices. If they had focused their supposedly best in the world engineers exclusively on EVs like Tesla did since 2003 then maybe their market share wouldn't be 24 times lower than Tesla.
#511
you are basically clinching straws now. as you have no idea how much overpriced talent was used in Space X project.
do you know why Elan tweet in Russian also?
it was Europe EADS former employee.
I will certainly not associate French and Japanese higher life expectancy with Renault and Honda nor there fast train network.
Renault and Honda also dont need high market cap as domestic education is good enough. This high market cap is total BS. It is too attract short term overpriced talent.
Diesel vehicles were Germanic way on dominating Europe and French didnot went against it. Now they have given such kick to Germany that they would never again mention diesel.
do you know why Elan tweet in Russian also?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tor...Mars-ambitionsSILICON VALLEY -- Japanese materials maker Toray Industries has agreed to supply carbon fiber to U.S. startup SpaceX for use in the bodies of rockets and space vehicles.
The multiyear deal with Tesla founder Elon Musk's 14-year-old venture is estimated to be worth 200 billion yen to 300 billion yen ($1.99 billion to $2.98 billion) in total
The multiyear deal with Tesla founder Elon Musk's 14-year-old venture is estimated to be worth 200 billion yen to 300 billion yen ($1.99 billion to $2.98 billion) in total
https://spacenews.com/38891a-hat-tip...-takes-flight/
“They came back and told us: ‘Yes, they’re going to do it,’” said one official. “When you consider who these guys were — one was our former chief technical officer, Robert Laine — we pretty much knew then what to expect.
“They came back and told us: ‘Yes, they’re going to do it,’” said one official. “When you consider who these guys were — one was our former chief technical officer, Robert Laine — we pretty much knew then what to expect.
I will certainly not associate French and Japanese higher life expectancy with Renault and Honda nor there fast train network.
Renault and Honda also dont need high market cap as domestic education is good enough. This high market cap is total BS. It is too attract short term overpriced talent.
Diesel vehicles were Germanic way on dominating Europe and French didnot went against it. Now they have given such kick to Germany that they would never again mention diesel.
#512
LMAO an extremely outdated 4 year old article. Bro everyone knows they're not using Carbon fiber in their ships. Look at a picture of their Starship, does it look like it's made out of carbon fiber or steel? They might still use CF for small parts here and there but they scrapped that CF ship idea two years after that article was published.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/spa...ainless-steel/
During the presentation, Musk offered several updates on changes to Starship's design. However he spent the most time discussing the use of stainless steel as the skin of the vehicle. "Stainless steel is by far the best design decision we have made," he said.
Yes, Musk said, steel is heavier than carbon composite or aluminum-based materials used in most spacecraft, but it has exceptional thermal properties. At extremely cold temperatures, stainless steel 301 does not turn brittle; and at the very high temperatures of atmospheric reentry, it does not melt until reaching 1,500 degrees Centigrade. Starship, therefore, requires only a modest heat shield of glass-like thermal tiles.
Another benefit is cost, which matters to a company building Starships on its own dime, with the intent to build many of them. Carbon fiber material costs about $130,000 a ton, he said. Stainless steel sells for $2,500 a ton.
"Steel is easy to weld, and weather resistant," Musk added. "The evidence being that we welded this outdoors, without a factory. Honestly, I'm in love with steel."
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...-his-starship/
What's cheaper a reusable rocket made of stainless steel or letting your already more expensive rocket fall into the ocean after launch and building another one? What other company has reusable rockets that can carry cargo to the ISS? No other company in the world can do what they can do for a cheaper price. Every other company throws the entire rocket into the ocean with every rocket launch to space, that's how it's been for decades until SpaceX.
Talk about grasping at straws
All you got is a 4 year old outdated, no longer relevant article
So SpaceX is making a huge rocket out of stainless steel. As far as we know, this marks the first time the material has been used in spacecraft construction since some early, ill-fated attempts during the Atlas program in the late 1950s.
We know he is doing this because, after weeks of rumors about a tweak to the design, a few days before Christmas Musk revealed that there would be much more than a tweak. The state-of-the-art carbon fiber forming the body of the Starship rocket (formerly known as the BFR, or Big Falcon Rocket, or Big F-other-word Rocket) and its Super Heavy booster would be replaced by 300-series stainless.
But now I believe they are convinced—well, they are convinced. We were pursuing an advanced carbon-fiber structure, but it was very slow progress, and the cost per kilogram of $135. And then there’s about a 35 percent scrap rate
We know he is doing this because, after weeks of rumors about a tweak to the design, a few days before Christmas Musk revealed that there would be much more than a tweak. The state-of-the-art carbon fiber forming the body of the Starship rocket (formerly known as the BFR, or Big Falcon Rocket, or Big F-other-word Rocket) and its Super Heavy booster would be replaced by 300-series stainless.
Ryan D’Agostino: You’ve been busy redesigning Starship.
Elon Musk: Yes. The design of Starship and the Super Heavy rocket booster I changed to a special alloy of stainless steel. I was contemplating this for a while. And this is somewhat counterintuitive. It took me quite a bit of effort to convince the team to go in this direction.But now I believe they are convinced—well, they are convinced. We were pursuing an advanced carbon-fiber structure, but it was very slow progress, and the cost per kilogram of $135. And then there’s about a 35 percent scrap rate
During the presentation, Musk offered several updates on changes to Starship's design. However he spent the most time discussing the use of stainless steel as the skin of the vehicle. "Stainless steel is by far the best design decision we have made," he said.
Yes, Musk said, steel is heavier than carbon composite or aluminum-based materials used in most spacecraft, but it has exceptional thermal properties. At extremely cold temperatures, stainless steel 301 does not turn brittle; and at the very high temperatures of atmospheric reentry, it does not melt until reaching 1,500 degrees Centigrade. Starship, therefore, requires only a modest heat shield of glass-like thermal tiles.
Another benefit is cost, which matters to a company building Starships on its own dime, with the intent to build many of them. Carbon fiber material costs about $130,000 a ton, he said. Stainless steel sells for $2,500 a ton.
"Steel is easy to weld, and weather resistant," Musk added. "The evidence being that we welded this outdoors, without a factory. Honestly, I'm in love with steel."
What's cheaper a reusable rocket made of stainless steel or letting your already more expensive rocket fall into the ocean after launch and building another one? What other company has reusable rockets that can carry cargo to the ISS? No other company in the world can do what they can do for a cheaper price. Every other company throws the entire rocket into the ocean with every rocket launch to space, that's how it's been for decades until SpaceX.
Talk about grasping at straws
All you got is a 4 year old outdated, no longer relevant article
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Comfy (06-02-2020)
#513
And the high market cap allows them to raise 2 billion in capital to accelerate their expansion while only diluting their shares a couple percent. If Renault wanted to sell $2B in new shares they'd dilute their stock by almost 30%. Their shares are already trading under $5 which basically makes them a shit penny stock. Sad.
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Comfy (06-02-2020)
#514
you have barely one launch for ferrying people. lets wait few years how reliably it can do.
Market cap will not help Tesla just like it didnot help Boeing, GE, IBM, Chrysler, Ford, CAT before. but it will increase supply of dollars in market. which extremely damaging because it is lowering the borrowing cost for rest of the world.and they making competitive products. that increasing unemployment in US..
Tesla barely 50% North American parts and it has no demand.
Market cap will not help Tesla just like it didnot help Boeing, GE, IBM, Chrysler, Ford, CAT before. but it will increase supply of dollars in market. which extremely damaging because it is lowering the borrowing cost for rest of the world.and they making competitive products. that increasing unemployment in US..
Tesla barely 50% North American parts and it has no demand.
https://www.toraytac.com/company/new...op-competitionMorgan Hill, CA—July 24, 2019
Delft Hyperloop made it to the final four in the competition race at SpaceX’s Hawthorne facility on July 21, 2019. Delft Hyperloop’s Atlas 02 pod launcher features a full composite chassis and carbon fiber battery case.
The pod’s launcher was manufactured with automation technology using Toray Advanced Composites’ uni-directional carbon fiber epoxy-based prepregs, supplied from their European Centre of Excellence for thermoset systems, Langley Mill (Nottingham, UK).
Delft Hyperloop made it to the final four in the competition race at SpaceX’s Hawthorne facility on July 21, 2019. Delft Hyperloop’s Atlas 02 pod launcher features a full composite chassis and carbon fiber battery case.
The pod’s launcher was manufactured with automation technology using Toray Advanced Composites’ uni-directional carbon fiber epoxy-based prepregs, supplied from their European Centre of Excellence for thermoset systems, Langley Mill (Nottingham, UK).
#515
CATL announces million mile battery
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-chin...-mile-battery/
Tesla seem to be paying the price for giving all the technology to Chinese. They seem to have beaten Tesla to the punch while announcing their version of the million mile battery. Apparently CATL is producing all these batteries for Tesla as well as other auto makers including Volkswagen which can theoretically produce their version of Million mile cars to market first.
But I have a feeling that Elon Musk doesn’t care.
Tesla seem to be paying the price for giving all the technology to Chinese. They seem to have beaten Tesla to the punch while announcing their version of the million mile battery. Apparently CATL is producing all these batteries for Tesla as well as other auto makers including Volkswagen which can theoretically produce their version of Million mile cars to market first.
But I have a feeling that Elon Musk doesn’t care.
#516
You are assuming Tesla is giving technology. Tesla still cannot make it without Panasonic. and despite all the billions spend only 50% of Model Y has North American parts. so interms of of employment it has lowest impact. Honda/Acura has now learnt from it. Rich will be getting richer. so why not Honda/Acura make more higher priced and luxurious vehicles that cater to shrinking market.
Tesla has raised the price bar of selling vehicles. Civic size Model 3 at $35K. so why not make next Civic/Insight Hybrid starting at $25K that already give you 5 year worth of gas in price.
Tesla has raised the price bar of selling vehicles. Civic size Model 3 at $35K. so why not make next Civic/Insight Hybrid starting at $25K that already give you 5 year worth of gas in price.
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#1 STUNNA (06-11-2020)
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Comfy (06-11-2020)
#519
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Comfy (06-12-2020)