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Old 09-06-2020, 06:43 AM
  #881  
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Their loss is our gain. More opportunities to buy .
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Old 09-06-2020, 02:48 PM
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:04 PM
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:12 PM
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My friend sold some TSLA today to buy a Model 3 with FSD

He got a Y a couple months ago.

He was able to sell about $50k worth of Pepsi stock his dad bought for him back in the 80s for a few grand, and dump all that into TSLA back when it was around $500 back in Dec/Jan.

Nows he’s going to need more Tesla solar panels and another Powerwall on his house
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:07 PM
  #885  
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must be nice.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:24 AM
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I wish I had intergenerational wealth
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:21 AM
  #887  
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
I wish I had intergenerational wealth
ha ha. You did. Your parents gave that wealth in form of astute financial judgment and proficiency. I’m sure you are thankful for that.
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Old 09-12-2020, 01:49 PM
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:18 PM
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:12 AM
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7 days until Battery Day



So hyped!
Old 09-15-2020, 11:37 AM
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Hopefully the exciting bit is that my stock will finally go back up lol.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:56 PM
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It's up like 30% in the last week
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:16 PM
  #893  
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TSLA is back in the game. Cheers.
Old 09-15-2020, 02:44 PM
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if only had extra funds to pick up a few shares during the dip
Old 09-15-2020, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
if only had extra funds to pick up a few shares during the dip
Same. Wife was getting nervous about putting in more cash...
Old 09-15-2020, 11:08 PM
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some are predicting that Tesla makes a bigger battery with their new tech. Benefits are increased battery pack energy density, reduced complexity and cost because it requires less welds, and less battery casings.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:16 AM
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Electrek has an exclusive first look at Tesla’s new battery cell produced in-house with its new Roadrunner battery manufacturing system.



Ahead of Tesla’s “Battery Day,” we have been reporting on the automaker’s effort to build its own battery cells.

Earlier this year, Electrek has exclusively revealed Tesla’s secret “Roadrunner” project, which consists of its in-house designed battery cell manufacturing system to increase production volume and reduce cost.

Tesla built a “Tera battery manufacturing facility” in its facilities on Kato Road next to its factory in Fremont to house the project.

While we got some information on Tesla’s effort to develop novel manufacturing systems to build battery cells, we didn’t have much information on the cells themselves.

Now we get what might be the very first look at these new battery cells produced by Tesla.

An anonymous source sent Electrek two pictures of a battery cell claiming that they were Tesla’s new in-house cell:
We started asking sources and circulating the images around to gather more information on this mysterious and large battery cell:

Another independent source was able to confirm to Electrek that this is indeed one of Tesla’s own battery cells produced with the Roadrunner system.

Tesla is still keeping the specs of the cell close to its chest, but we are still able to find out a few new details about the cell.

The diameter of the new cell is twice as big as Tesla’s 2170 cells currently used in Model 3 and Model Y vehicles and produced by Panasonic at Gigafactory Nevada.

Doubling the diameter of a battery cell results in four times the volume in the cell.

If the new volume is used efficiently, you gain a lot of capacity while reducing cost with fewer casings and fewer cells per pack.

Furthermore, the pictures appear to show a tabless cell, which is something we know Tesla has been working on.

Earlier this year, Tesla applied for a patent a new battery cell with a tabless electrode that Elon Musk hyped as “way more important than it sounds.”
The new cell design helps reduce the internal cell resistance for the current paths inside the cell, improving performance.

On top of the cell capacity improvements, the lack of a tab reduces cost and simplifies manufacturing.

Tesla is currently building a pilot production line to produce those cells in volume in Fremont. Tesla Grohmann, the company’s automation group, is currently building the machines for higher-volume production based on what they are learning from the pilot line, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The automaker is also planning to deploy the battery manufacturing system at its upcoming Gigafactory Texas in Austin.

More information is expected to be released at Tesla’s Battery Day next week.

Electrek’s Take

This is a very interesting development. Those simple changes of having a much larger cell with a tabless design could alone result in a significant improvement in the performance of the cells.

Combine that with some potential material and chemical changes, and the overall performance improvements might be more than just incremental compared to Tesla’s current cells.

Now a new cell format also means new modules and new packs to accommodate the new cells.

There could be room for improvement here too, since Tesla will be going from thousands of cells per pack to potentially less than a thousand with this cell format.

At this point, it’s also my understanding that Tesla plans to unveil more than one new battery cell at Battery Day.

We have previously reported on Tesla’s project Palladium, which involves significant updates to Model S and Model X, but it now looks like it could also involve new cells specifically for that project on top of the Roadrunner cells.

How Tesla plans to roll out those new cells into its existing vehicle programs in production without too much disruption is less clear.

We are likely going to have to wait until Battery Day to understand the full extent of Tesla’s plans.
https://electrek.co/2020/09/16/tesla...er-first-look/
Old 09-16-2020, 11:26 AM
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The tabless design reduces costs in a few ways, simplified design, reduced internal resistance means, reduced heat which means they can make bigger battery cells and not worry about cooling thing, bigger battery cells means less battery cells which means simplified and cheaper manufacturing, increased battery pack density, reduced resistance should also improve performance.

Plus there's also the Maxwell dry battery electrode tech which will reduce costs, increase energy density, increase manufacturing speed. Also expect a redesigned battery pack with no more modules (Elon says they're vestigal), and possible no battery pack top cover (Elon says redundant), and you got more ways to reduce parts, manufacturing time, and costs, while increasing battery pack energy density. It's a win win win win win win win

How much increased energy density at how much cheaper price, IDK on all that, I'd guess somewhere in the 20-50% range
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:58 AM
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^This is how Tesla makes a big Cybertruck with 500mi range for $70k, while Lucid will make a smaller lighter, more aero sedan with 500mi range for $140k
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:29 PM
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Some battery day speculation from some knowledgeable people, "The Limiting Factor" (Jordan Giesige) is one of the most informed content creators when it comes to Tesla batteries and their patents

5498 = 54mm x 98mm










Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 09-16-2020 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:04 PM
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So you should be able to charge and discharge these batteries faster. That may mean faster than 250kw charging but at the least it means 250kw charging for a longer period of time.

You may not know this but when you charge an Model 3 with 2170s it doesn't always charge at max speed. Under less than 10% charge it will charge at about 130kw, half speed, then from ~10%-~50% it will charge at 250kw, then ~50-80% it charges at 130kw, and then 80-95% it's like 70kw, and that last 5% is a relative trickle like 10kw.

^That's a rough estimate, that's not exact but it's in that ballpark, and Tesla is often slightly tweaking those charge profiles with more data once they're sure the battery can handle a faster charge profile they'll roll it out in an update.

That's why it's not always best to charge all the way to 80% at one charger, it'd be faster to charge up to around 50% then drive to the next charger 120mi away pull in at about 10% charge and then charge for 8-10 minutes back up to ~50% and then leave.

With these larger batteries the range that you could charge the battery at 250kw would be larger say 5%-80%,that's just a guess. But if true you'd almost always be in a spot where you're charging really fast, and that'd reduce overall charge times signifigantly and mean that you'd have to stop less often to charge than if you played that game where you keep the battery in the 10-50% so that you can charge at peak speeds.

They also may bump peak charge rates to 300kw or 350kw. They bumped V2 Superchargers from 120kw to 150kw with a software update, they may do the same with V3 chargers.

Though Elon has mentioned some downsides of charging faster than 250kw but that may only be with the 18650, and 2170 cells in the older vehicles.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:08 PM
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Are the 2170 / 18650 cells something similar to a AA or AAA batteries (in size)?
Old 09-16-2020, 10:41 PM
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Both are bigger.
Double AA more like 1450s 14 mm x 50mm
18650 = 18mm x 65mm
2170 = 21mm x 70mm
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:19 PM
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Good info in here

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Old 09-17-2020, 10:53 AM
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:13 AM
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So if Jordan is correct and there's a 20% improvement in the form factor alone then we go from ~250wh/kg to ~300wh/kg, then add in the at least 20% improvement with the Maxwell tech and you go from ~300wh/kg to ~360wh/kg as a safe estimate. IMO I think it's going to be closer to 400wh/kg, I think Maxwell tech is going to be bigger than a 20% improvement, at least 30% IMO. The manufacturing cost savings I think will be very significant, like did they just cut the cost of a battery pack by 33% 50%, or more IDK?
Old 09-17-2020, 06:00 PM
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Glad to see you 2 r getting along very well... Keep each other warm
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Glad to see you 2 r getting along very well... Keep each other warm
Thanks for keeping us company.
Old 09-18-2020, 03:29 PM
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No worries.. i just wanna check in once in a while to make sure you 2 dont start a fire here.. dont get too cozy..
Old 09-18-2020, 11:23 PM
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Great video going over many of the things I've discussed already. Also he discussed increased charging rates. At the Cybertruck unveil Elon said it'd be able to charge at more than 250kw, we may find out that rate next week. The electrical panels on the V3 supercharger say it can output 410kW (1000v*410A) but V2 chargers had understated specs on the electrical panels that said they could only output 110kW but nowadays they're outputting 150kW. Someone has measured receiving 680A from a V3 Supercharger (still 250kw total).
Old 09-19-2020, 05:29 PM
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Interesting. Basically it'll drive you around on the highway but you have to drive on city streets

This is pure profit for Tesla
Old 09-21-2020, 07:46 AM
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It’s still stupid that it’s a one time non-transferable fee. They should seriously make it a subscription for like $70 a month. This way, if you go on a road trip, you can turn on Nav by Autopilot but then when you’re just driving to work every day in a normal month you don’t need it.

Also, this would probably allow Tesla to collect money from more drivers.

Last edited by kurtatx; 09-21-2020 at 07:48 AM.
Old 09-21-2020, 08:44 AM
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They are working on that too, Elon has mentioned that a few times. Probably waiting on FSD to be more feature complete in order to do it.

Old 09-21-2020, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx
It’s still stupid that it’s a one time non-transferable fee. They should seriously make it a subscription for like $70 a month. This way, if you go on a road trip, you can turn on Nav by Autopilot but then when you’re just driving to work every day in a normal month you don’t need it.

Also, this would probably allow Tesla to collect money from more drivers.
There should be options for both. Many would prefer to buy once rather than a monthly payment (which actually works out more expensive in the long run).
Old 09-21-2020, 10:15 AM
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They need to have personal and professional licenses. The price is so high because of the robotaxi idea, where someone could buy a fleet of these cars and have them out driving around town operating like an Uber and coming back to charge when needed. Tesla estimates that you'd make at least $10k a year per car if you did that. So $8k is reasonable in that situation, however to someone who won't enroll their vehicle it's a little high. They should make a personal license that's cheaper but can't be enrolled in the robotaxi network, you can use it to pick up your family, maybe require each person to have the Tesla app on their phone and have it synced to your Tesla FSD subscription much like an Apple Family sharing plan works, the Tesla knows where the kid is based off of their phone location, when it arrives the kid jumps and the Tesla drives them home.

Make that a subscription that's reasonable, and for the business make it much more expensive. IDK maybe they get rid of the flat cost all together since everything is a damn subscription now a days, maybe the FSD cost is built into the robotaxi pricing, maybe Tesla takes a bigger cut.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:23 PM
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:26 PM
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What a bummer
Old 09-21-2020, 08:06 PM
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:30 PM
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:14 PM
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