SpicyMikey

No one I hope is saying that. I'm certainly not suggesting it. I'm making the comment on the fact that it seems sales are trending up in general versus their competition, with the exception of maybe Audi. They seem to be going into the stratusphere. What's up with that? I never owned one but I know some people who do. I've test driven them. I'm not sure I understand the slobering love affair lately

dom

Never driven anything outside of an 09 A4 so I can't really offer an opinion. But what's clear is, they look damn good. That's half the battle IMO.

biker

...which in the case of the TL, it is losing badly.

DrewSRX

July 2010 - Overall Luxury Brand Sales

1. BMW - 19,064
2. Lexus - 18,595
3. Mercedes-Benz - 17,367
4. Cadillac - 14,919
5. Acura - 13,017
6. Infiniti - 9,764
7. Audi - 7,817
8. Lincoln - 5,586
9. Volvo - 4,319
10. Porsche - 2,703
11. Land Rover - 2,292
12. Jaguar - 1,516
13. Saab - 470

July 2010 - Luxury Car Sales By Segment

Entry-Level CUV
1. Q5 - 1,930
2. GLK - 1,805
3. RDX - 1,708
4. XC60 - 1,129
5. EX - 669
6. X3 - 559
7. LR2 - N/A

Mid-Level SUV
1. RX - 8,162
2. SRX - 5,723
3. MDX - 4,194
4. X5 - 2,815
5. ML - 1,973
6. MKX - 1,443
7. GX - 1,175
8. Cayenne - 910
9. XC90 - 829
10. RR Sport - 793
11. FX - 778
12. Q7 - 602
13. ZDX - 578
14. X6 - 550
15. LR4 - 522
16. 9-5x - N/A

Large SUV
1. Escalade - 1,252 (All Versions) - 2,209
2. QX - 1,319
3. GL - 1,179
4. Range Rover - 623
5. MKT - 606
6. Navigator - 566
7. LX - 285
8. G Wagon - 48

Pre-Entry-Level
1. TSX - 3,242
2. 1-Series - 1,392
3. C30/S40/V50 - 763
4. A3 - 424
5. HS - 165

Entry-Level
1. 3 - 8,897
2. G - 5,721
3. CTS - 5,516
4. C - 5,309
5. ES - 4,093
6. A4/5 - 3,903
7. TL - 3,123
8. IS - 3,100
9. MKZ - 1,590
10. S60 - 0
11. 9-3 - N/A

Mid-Level
1. E - 5,426
2. 5 - 2,724
3. M - 1,277
4. MKS - 969
5. S80 - 668
6. XF - 627
7. A6/S6 - 620
8. GS - 592
9. STS - 259
10. RL - 172
11. 9-5 - N/A

Flagship
1. LS - 986
2. 7-Series - 904
3. Panamera - 807
4. S-Class - 779
5. XJ - 630
6. A8/S8 - 120

Luxury Coupe/GT
1. G37 Coupe - 1,586
2. A5/S5 - 1,238
3. Corvette - 1,199
4. 6-Series - 987
5. 911 - 594
6. Boxster/Cayman - 392
7. C70 - 385
8. XK - 259
9. Z4 - 236
10. SL - 194
11. TT - 166
12. CL - 99
13. CLS - 93
14. GT-R - 86
15. SLK - 60
16. R8 - 52
17. SLS - 47
18. SC - 36
19. XLR - 5
20. CLK - 5

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

So the TL is still failing. A surprise, isn't it?

VTEC Racer

How's the car hunting going?

VTEC Racer

Overall Acura sales have been on an upward trend pretty much all year. I don't think overall Acura sales have had a double digit decline in a while. It's the overall sales that tell you where the brand is heading, not sales of a single model.

fsttyms1

Pretty sad when the CTS and STS outsell the TL and RL (not to mention a lot of others by wide margins). And daym, the 80-110k A8/S8 is nearly selling the same amount of vehicles as the RL

fsttyms1

Thats the way the many see things, they quickly forget

VTEC Racer

Yes it is a still on a stop sale. It has been over a month and Lexus has shown itself to be incapable of providing a solution to the problems, one of many. Even when the car was for sale though Lexus was giving them away for Camry-like lease deals so in reality, consumers are not affected by this, stop sale or not cause nobody wants to buy one either way.

dom

I stand corrected. Acura has had positive growth every month this year except Jan. But... The TL was in the red every month save March. Your bread and butter sedan should be leading the division, not dragging it down.

The ZDX was introduced this year. Not many sales but it helps the numbers.

And its positive growth vs Last year, that's not really saying much since sales were atrocious. How do the YTD figures compare to everyone else?

dom

YTD

BMW +8.9
Lexus +16.1
Infiniti +25.3
Audi +27.1
Acura +24.3
Cadillac +45.6
MB +19.5

I'd like to look up total 2009 sales for each, just to get an idea of how far some dropped in 09 vs recovered in 10.

SpicyMikey

Like I said above, no one is saying Acura is a model example of how to run a car company. I was just commenting on the grill not being as big an issue as many thought. In fact, it seems to be helping give the brand some identity and help sales. Disclaimer: That's just my opinion based on what I've watched this year with sales once the RDX and MDX got their MMC styling refresh.

You mention some real problems. An aging flagship sedan that should have been replaced several years ago, and engine / drive train technology that needs to be retired, are two more.

As you said, the brands sales were horrible last year and its hard not to do better. But everyone'ls sales were bad last year and I'm speaking about relative sales and trends compared to others. Their TSX is first in it's class. The RDX and MDX are both third in their class. Sales are good inspite of the problems you mentioned and the two I added. So I think people needs to stop piling on the hate wagon with this company

smarty666

Well it can't all be the grill b/c the TSX and MDX are still selling well!

Shift_Acura

How does Acura outsell Audi and Infiniti

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Not really hunting at the moment. The GS won't be out for a year yet.

I still like my 3G though, so it's not all bad.

Senneca01

Infiniti and Audi have no answer to the MDX, plain and simple. The FX and Q7 don't cut it.

Note to Infiniti: Fix the damn FX (too controversially styled and narrowly focused) and EX (too small, cramped, with useless cargo space) and bring back a proper flagship (new Q, Essence sedan, whatever), then you will be in really good shape.

VTEC Racer

Because we enthusiasts are not representative of the 90%+ consumers that buy cars.

Infiniti, which is what everyone wants Acura to be (V8, RWD, 7 speed AT, Coupes) has always been outsold by Acura. 90% of consumers don't look for the same attributes in a car as we do here on this forum. Not to mention Infiniti is usually always offering awesome lease deals on their cars on top of it all.

VTEC Racer

I'm sure there will be some other car that will be coming out a year after the Buick debuts which will keep you on the fence even longer. lol. But something tells me your favorite car is the 4G TL because it gets the most attention from you.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Perhaps. The updated SHO struck my interest.

Or should I just bite on a deal so that you won't follow my comments all over AZ? Just wondering is all.

pttl

It isn't JUST the grille. The TL grille is the worst in the Acura line, but the over all design of the car is what makes the TL the king.

smarty666

I couldn't agree with you more about the EX. The FX on the other hand is suffering from stagnation and certain refinement issues in its ride. Since I have the 1G FX, I can tell you its problem was never styling. I had yet to read a review that hated the body style of the FX. Problem is, the 2G bodystyle really didn't change compared to the 1G and they went out of their way to uglify the front grill now. They should of come out with a new bodystyle. Except for some minor front and rear end changes, the 2010 FX looks pretty much like a 2003 FX and thats a long period of time. It looks like a fish or shark smiling at you now, I like my grill much better. The ride quality is still a problem, it is rock hard firm and no where near comfortable, not even on smoothly paved roads. Some equipment changes need to be made and a different bodystyle.

smarty666

Just remember, Infiniti has no entry-level compact right now that competes with the TSX, IS, Regal, etc. Once they introduce the G25 at the end of this year/begin of next year, I suspect their sales will increase since they will now have a cheaper entry-level model to compete with the competition that they didn't have before. That is if they market and sell it right.

SSFTSX

CTS & STS has newer technology. I am not yet declaring TL as failure as it is only two years in 7 year life. Look at RDX. it is in its 4th year now and doing good.
On other hand you already had a failed product called Genesis. It has
RWD/6speed auto/V8/18inch standard and still not selling. I am not sure any thing will improve it.
with TL there is chance with MMC with even higher performance/fuel economy.

chungkopi

Genesis is hardly a failure. it is selling better than MKS, S80, RL, GS and M. average transaction of Genesis is slightly over 40k according to Krafcik, so it's not too far away from GS of the world. not bad for a non luxury korean brand.

and it doesn't do well against ES and Taurus because it only offers RWD. not having AWD option is huge. 50 year old car buyers don't want RWD. they avoid RWD like a plague especially people in colder states. Genesis sales are very good in warmer states compared to colder states rightfully so.

biker

OK, I'll bite - when was the last time the TL had a 7 year cycle and what indication is there that it will be 7 years with this platform?

neuronbob

A few issues with your statement.

The STS does NOT have newer tech than an RL. It's selling largely because of lease specials. It really hasn't changed much since this iteration was released, except that the V8 version was discontinued for the last model year and it is a dead model.

The CTS does not have newer tech than a TL. It's selling largely because of lease specials and 0% for 72 months...cash on the table.

The TL's life cycle is generally five model years, not seven. The current RL's lifespan has reached six years, which is still shorter than the previous RL, which went from 1996 to 2004.

Genesis has not failed.

The TL has multiple reasons for its failure to meet expectations, and the looks are only one part of it as multiple other posters posit.

SSFTSX

Genesis dont have $40k transaction price. On used car lot its selling price is less than TL. and since TL sale volume is 50% larger than Genesis. it means its avg price is higher than Genesis.

Car with 175 mile on odo is $33K asking.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/1876423329.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/1874079060.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ctd/1873394906.html



even 2010 with 10miles on odo is $39k asking. and it is V8 comparable to Sh-AWD. It is asking not the transaction price.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/1869158979.html
2010 Hyundai GENESIS #8948, 10 miles, Automatic, Fuel Injected, - $38999 (burlingame)
VIN: KMHGC4DF3AU099804
Warranty: Yes
Stock #: 8948
Miles: 10
Exterior Color: White Satin Pearl
Interior Color: Cashmere
Automatic, Fuel Injected, 8 Cyl., 4.6, 4 Dr Sedan

JD23

Is it too early to declare the TSX a success and the TL a failure? Even after adjusting for the contraction in US auto sales, the 4G TL is selling at a significantly lower rate than the 3G TL at the same point in its model cycle.

SSFTSX

Cadi has DI engines and 6speed auto. that is most expensive part of upgrade.
TL has moved upmarket it will have the same long life span as RL and MDX.
7 to 8 years.

DrewSRX

Genesis sales include the sedan and coupe (2,309 total), so we don't know the breakdown for the sedan. So, we really don't know how well it is selling compared to the cars you mentioned. But, I agree it isn't a failure by any means.

fsttyms1

You are in serious denial. I bet if we looked thru your posts somewhere you would say the TL has better newer tech. The CTS and STS are older with older tech than the TL/RL

And the Genesis is NOT a failure. It beats the RL in sales (which it would happen to be competing with )

fsttyms1

I pitty it if it does have that long of a life cycle in its current design.

dom

People on this board for the most part represent the enthusiast comminity. In which Acura is still choosing to pretty much ignore.

But ya, imagine if they had got the stying\size on the TL right. I truly believe they've be selling 5-6k units per month and be much farther up the sales charts.

fsttyms1

Pretty much goes for the RL as well.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

danielgr at TOV posted a great analysis regarding the TL situation. Go over there and have a read.

Basically he's saying that it's unrealistic to expect the TL to sell as well as 2g and 3g TL. Back then, the TL started at 28k and top of the line was like 33k for the 2g. The 2004 TL was in the 33-35k range. Then the new IS, new G, new C class, new 3 series came alone in 2006-2007. That immediately had an effect on the TL. The TL went from 42000 units in 2006 to 35000 in 2007, to 27000 in 2008. Then after that, there's the new CTS and new A4 as well. The 4G TL has gotten much bigger too, and MUCH MORE expensive. What's more? The new 2G TSX has become/replaced the 2G/3G TL, especially with the new V6 model.

Looking at things this way, I don't think the TL is doing that bad at all. Of course, Acura could have done better.

biker

^ It should sell close to ES levels - it has the same background (based on the high volume mid sized sedan) and probably the same customer base (people moving up from the pedestrian make to the luxury make). Acura simply screwed up - too big, too expensive, too ugly.

Legend2TL

Legend2TL

To me the ES is in the more luxury based and the TL is more sport based, even though both are FWD they are different in their appeal. That is the reason Lexus introduced the IS to also appeal to the sport entry-luxury market dominated by the 3-series.

SpicyMikey

Agree. I was about to say the same thing when you posted you're comment. It seems because of styling and advertising the ES is driven mostly by 40+ women. The Tl I have noticed is appealing to men in their 20s and 30s. These cars are not really fighting for the same customers.