Honda: Development and Technology News
09-11-2009, 05:37 PM
#1081
IMO, the plan was to have a new transverse 6AT for Acura SUVs that will 'trickle' down through the rest of the FWD or AWD lineup (eventually to Honda too). The longitudinal engines/transmissions would have gone into different cars.
Who knows till the economy turns around, but who could have predicted it?
09-11-2009, 06:27 PM
#1082
Race Director
Considering that the RL is the next car to get an FMC it would make sense that's the car that would get a DSG. The 6AT will stay in the SUV lineup. 
09-11-2009, 06:55 PM
#1083
Team Owner
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All the tea leaves I read point to RWD or AWD for the next gen chassis, and yes, the RL currently is transverse.
IMO, the plan was to have a new transverse 6AT for Acura SUVs that will 'trickle' down through the rest of the FWD or AWD lineup (eventually to Honda too). The longitudinal engines/transmissions would have gone into different cars.
Who knows till the economy turns around, but who could have predicted it?
IMO, the plan was to have a new transverse 6AT for Acura SUVs that will 'trickle' down through the rest of the FWD or AWD lineup (eventually to Honda too). The longitudinal engines/transmissions would have gone into different cars.
Who knows till the economy turns around, but who could have predicted it?
EDIT:
Looked it up on Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_engine
I didn't know transverse could be used in awd configurations. that's new to me. Wikipedia says it's so that you can increase the amount of cabin space.
Last edited by Sly Raskal; 09-11-2009 at 06:58 PM.
09-11-2009, 07:21 PM
#1084
Yup, Honda has been using transverse engine placement on its AWD product (not counting the Isuzu sourced cars). This makes it easy to offer both FWD and AWD from the same platform.
Last edited by Colin; 09-11-2009 at 07:25 PM.
09-14-2009, 11:17 AM
#1085
Quit while you're ahead. :troutslap
A DSG will always be an auto. PERIOD. Just because it gives you the choice of when to shift, doesn't make it a manual.
Now if one day manual transmissions completely cease to exist, then, and only then, maybe it can be considered a manual transmission. But a manual transmission is one in which you HAVE to always change gears yourself without any automation of ANY sort.
One of the reasons behind creating DSG's or auto's with manual mode was to give people the sense they were driving a manual without the need of a manually operated clutch. This isn't the same by any means. By the way, have you driven a manual?
A DSG will always be an auto. PERIOD. Just because it gives you the choice of when to shift, doesn't make it a manual.
Now if one day manual transmissions completely cease to exist, then, and only then, maybe it can be considered a manual transmission. But a manual transmission is one in which you HAVE to always change gears yourself without any automation of ANY sort.
One of the reasons behind creating DSG's or auto's with manual mode was to give people the sense they were driving a manual without the need of a manually operated clutch. This isn't the same by any means. By the way, have you driven a manual?
09-14-2009, 02:40 PM
#1086
Go Big Blue!
The world of Transmissions is admittedly a unique case. We have a very old (almost original) basic concept coexisting with "evolved" concepts. It's not how it usually happens. When electronic ignition was invented the distributor cap disappeared. When fuel injection was created, carburetors quickly vanished.
Only reason that our classic MT design still exists is because no one has been able to figure out how to mechanize the process so that it's faster and also transfers the same amount of HP as a direct geared manual. Thus, racing and performance minded drivers must still use MT's. In recent years, AT's have gotten so efficent that those outside racing who use MT's are just doing it for the fun and/or nostalgia, but not for any practical reasons because the MPG on an AT is often equal to their MT counterpart.
Even for the racing world, new direct geared AT designs like Porsche's PDK are finally reaching a point where they can almost provide the same performance (shifting speed, decision making) as a MT with a human doing the shifting and thinking. Once that level is truly reached (and eventually passed), manually shifted transmissions will be gone. I'm guessing 10 years at most. At that point MT's will be be like those distributor caps and carburetors. Only found in our memories, collector cars, and history books for our kids to read.
09-14-2009, 03:12 PM
#1088
Go Big Blue!
^^^ Yes, of course. I mispoke. The DCT's are almost instantaneous as well as being based on a constant mesh manual gearbox to eliminate the torque lose. Only real downside still is the shifting algorithms. I've read how Porsche's PDK is arguably the best in that category leaving all the others in the dust. But it's still not as good as a human and can be a little clunky at times. We know that will eventually be overcome. It's just a matter of time. When the racing world abandons manual transmissions, it just won't have the mojo anymore for people to demand them in their daily drivers and the MT will be history. That day is coming.
09-14-2009, 03:41 PM
#1090
Go Big Blue!
09-14-2009, 06:53 PM
#1091
Race Director
There's just one issue: you'll never have a DSG or some other tranny any simpler than an MT. And with that simplicity comes cost savings and reliability. Yes, many folks get MTs for the nostalgia and/or control or just cause that's what they grew up with - but there's something to be said for the cost savings and reliability of MTs also.
You might be able to eliminate the minority of MT drivers in the US - but it won't be so easy in Europe and elsewhere where the penetration rate is like 70%.
It will be even harder on motorcycles where MTs are real close to 100% of models.
You might be able to eliminate the minority of MT drivers in the US - but it won't be so easy in Europe and elsewhere where the penetration rate is like 70%.
It will be even harder on motorcycles where MTs are real close to 100% of models.
10-06-2009, 05:06 PM
#1092
The sizzle in the Steak
Honda: Terminates Europe Design Studio Operations
The downtrodden global economy has forced many automakers to close factories and offices, with Honda’s European design studio the latest to fall victim to the current financial climate. Honda’s European design studio – located just outside of Frankfurt, Germany – will shut its doors at the end of next month.
Honda will shutter its car and motorcycle design studios at its Offenbach R&D center by the end of November. Although the design studios will be closing, Honda will continue operating its R&D operations out of the facility.
“This is a regrettable structure change due to the current economic picture,” Honda spokesman Christophe Rust told Car Design News. “The German design activities will be discontinued with effect from the end of November”.
The move throws into question Honda’s entire European design plans. Motorcycle design will likely be moved to the company’s facility in Rome, but it remains unclear if Honda will establish another European car design studio.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-to...tml#more-21653
Opened in 1992, the Offenbach facility has designed a number of concepts, including Honda’s OSM show car in 2008.
Honda will shutter its car and motorcycle design studios at its Offenbach R&D center by the end of November. Although the design studios will be closing, Honda will continue operating its R&D operations out of the facility.
“This is a regrettable structure change due to the current economic picture,” Honda spokesman Christophe Rust told Car Design News. “The German design activities will be discontinued with effect from the end of November”.
The move throws into question Honda’s entire European design plans. Motorcycle design will likely be moved to the company’s facility in Rome, but it remains unclear if Honda will establish another European car design studio.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-to...tml#more-21653
Opened in 1992, the Offenbach facility has designed a number of concepts, including Honda’s OSM show car in 2008.
10-06-2009, 06:46 PM
#1094
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Don't care about this.
Which office was the 4G TL design from? Tell me that.
Who came up with that brilliant idea of constructing a brand identity with that gay front grille?
Well, he/she definitely deserves some credit because people now know that Acura has a brand identity to be differentiate among the luxury brands.
The uglyness.
Which office was the 4G TL design from? Tell me that.
Who came up with that brilliant idea of constructing a brand identity with that gay front grille?
Well, he/she definitely deserves some credit because people now know that Acura has a brand identity to be differentiate among the luxury brands.
The uglyness.
Last edited by JS + XES; 10-06-2009 at 06:50 PM.
10-06-2009, 07:01 PM
#1095
Don't care about this.
Which office was the 4G TL design from? Tell me that.
Who came up with that brilliant idea of constructing a brand identity with that gay front grille?
Well, he/she definitely deserves some credit because people now know that Acura has a brand identity to be differentiate among the luxury brands.
The uglyness.
Which office was the 4G TL design from? Tell me that.
Who came up with that brilliant idea of constructing a brand identity with that gay front grille?
Well, he/she definitely deserves some credit because people now know that Acura has a brand identity to be differentiate among the luxury brands.
The uglyness.
http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2005/sports4/
10-06-2009, 08:12 PM
#1096
Burning Brakes
I'd say that the overall concept came from the Japan design studio. The lines were originally shown on the Sports 4 in 2005. Kinda gives you an idea how long the gestation process is for a new car!
http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2005/sports4/
http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2005/sports4/
10-06-2009, 09:36 PM
#1097
Senior Moderator
I think they closed the wrong studio.
10-06-2009, 11:35 PM
#1098
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ 
10-07-2009, 01:08 AM
#1100
^^ LOL it's not that bad. Sheesh, people take things so personally. The MDX is nice and besides, someone has to approve a design for production.
10-07-2009, 02:31 AM
#1101
6G TLX-S
10-07-2009, 03:16 AM
#1102
10-07-2009, 03:39 AM
#1103
Lets go Lynch him instead
Nice link to that concept vehicle. That design has similar lines to vehicles like the CC, etc. The lines actually flow well on that concept vehicle and if they had just done some finer/smoothing touches to that concept. I think they would have had a major seller on their hands.
10-07-2009, 08:59 AM
#1104
I'm the Firestarter
I guess there will be no more claims of "European styling"? 
I've always placed blame squarely at Japan. For styling as well as the neutering of Acura.
10-07-2009, 12:26 PM
#1107
The sizzle in the Steak
Honda now enters Phase II of its self-destruction plan.
Hyundai can't believe their luck.
...and Hyundai is
Hyundai can't believe their luck.
...and Hyundai is
10-07-2009, 02:29 PM
#1109
Senior Moderator
10-07-2009, 09:50 PM
#1110
6G TLX-S
If the designers had come up with nothing but all pretty-styling drawings for the "let's build it" guy to choose from, then it's extremely difficult for the Acura styling to go wrong, and we won't end up getting what we're getting now.
10-07-2009, 11:14 PM
#1113
10-08-2009, 12:34 AM
#1115
10-08-2009, 01:02 AM
#1116
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
10-08-2009, 03:41 AM
#1117
They didn't tell me why. But if I had to guess, they want to make sure its dead reliable with 6000/year of ZDXs and 40,000/year MDXs before they 'bet the company' by putting in the 400,000/year Accord/TL. Besides, these probably need the fuel economy boost more than the sedans.
10-08-2009, 06:45 AM
#1118
Senior Moderator
They didn't tell me why. But if I had to guess, they want to make sure its dead reliable with 6000/year of ZDXs and 40,000/year MDXs before they 'bet the company' by putting in the 400,000/year Accord/TL. Besides, these probably need the fuel economy boost more than the sedans.
How about doing like every one else and outsourcing the trans (something they cant make well in auto any ways) to a different company
10-08-2009, 01:31 PM
#1119
The 5AT works fine now. Honda has always built their own transmissions and except for the 5AT, I don't recall any history of major issues in their 50 years of existence. In the last 5-6 years, Honda has quietly fixed the 5AT, developed the new 6AT, developed the new dual clutch for motorcycles, and (if my sources are correct) the new dual clutch for the NSX. That's not bad, but I'm sure we'll find a way to see the 'glass half empty"
Also, outsourcing doesn't insure reliability. BMWs ZF sourced transmission has it's share of problems with "no reverse". We can look into every company's history and find problems. This argument is the equivalent of saying that Toyota should outsource their V-6 engines because of their past sludge problem.
10-08-2009, 03:37 PM
#1120
The sizzle in the Steak
Compared to the rest of the automakers.....Honda is a "half empty glass".
It's not like the majority of people around here just rant about Honda because they are for some odd reason "anti-honda".....it's because of what Honda has done....or really what they have not done.
It's not some crazy car enthusiast conspiracy to hate Honda.
If you slapped a Honda or Acura logo on the hoods of the recent Hyundai product, you would have all the pissed off Honda fans going crazy and saying how much they love it.
It's not like the majority of people around here just rant about Honda because they are for some odd reason "anti-honda".....it's because of what Honda has done....or really what they have not done.
It's not some crazy car enthusiast conspiracy to hate Honda.
If you slapped a Honda or Acura logo on the hoods of the recent Hyundai product, you would have all the pissed off Honda fans going crazy and saying how much they love it.