Honda: Development and Technology News
10-30-2008, 12:04 PM
#882
Senior Moderator
I'll take my potential A/C problem over a VW any day.
Plus, I think the new Jetta looks like shyt anyway.
10-30-2008, 02:14 PM
#883
The sizzle in the Steak
If you want diesel that bad they'll be plenty of VW's, BMW's and Benz's for you to buy.
I guess they have the whole AT emissions issue sorted out.
But seriously, they have experience with diesels. Although experience is a poor choice of words since they sell more diesels than gas engines overseas. It shouldn't be surprising.
I guess they have the whole AT emissions issue sorted out.
But seriously, they have experience with diesels. Although experience is a poor choice of words since they sell more diesels than gas engines overseas. It shouldn't be surprising.
Another dropping of the ball....
Honda/Acura is running out of balls to drop.
10-30-2008, 02:30 PM
#884
Pro
Where do you see a BMW 3 series is any less reliable? BMWs can run just as long as any Honda, as long as you spend the money to maintain it. (And as long as you don't get too many electronic toys.)
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
10-30-2008, 02:39 PM
#885
The sizzle in the Steak
Where do you see a BMW 3 series is any less reliable? BMWs can run just as long as any Honda, as long as you spend the money to maintain it. (And as long as you don't get too many electronic toys.)
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
All German cars are "built to break".
10-30-2008, 02:52 PM
#886
Senior Moderator
Where do you see a BMW 3 series is any less reliable? BMWs can run just as long as any Honda, as long as you spend the money to maintain it. (And as long as you don't get too many electronic toys.)
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
If you are too cheap to change fluids, then that's a different problem.
Check Consumer reports and JD power.
10-30-2008, 05:34 PM
#887
Pro
Nothing runs forever. Not all Germans are alike, and in general, the Germans do make the cars that a lot of people would like to drive.
By the way, what electronic toys can you get on an Acura? Lane departure warning? Night vision? Head up display?
By the way, what electronic toys can you get on an Acura? Lane departure warning? Night vision? Head up display?
10-31-2008, 06:36 AM
#888
Race Director
10-31-2008, 12:01 PM
#889
The sizzle in the Steak
Germany's Volkswagen (VW) is considered the benchmark of diesel technology. VW is Europe's biggest car maker and 40 per cent of the cars it sells in Germany have diesel engines. One high-volume model there is the Volkswagen Passat 1.9 TDI with a 1.9-litre turbo- diesel engine.
10-31-2008, 12:58 PM
#890
Race Director
Actually, I though it was closer to 50%, especially for VW.
This was the prefect opportunity for Honda (with the USDM Accord) and Acura (with the TSX) to take lead in some automotive category - they probably could have outsold everyone else if they have enough production capacity. But it sounds like as usual they'll be coming late to the game, if ever. Somehow I don't see BMW or MB having issues with certification nor costs to delay their diesel debuts.
This was the prefect opportunity for Honda (with the USDM Accord) and Acura (with the TSX) to take lead in some automotive category - they probably could have outsold everyone else if they have enough production capacity. But it sounds like as usual they'll be coming late to the game, if ever. Somehow I don't see BMW or MB having issues with certification nor costs to delay their diesel debuts.
@ this thread.
11-26-2008, 09:06 AM
#892
Race Director
11-26-2008, 10:42 AM
#893
The sizzle in the Steak
11-26-2008, 12:45 PM
#894
It was a spammer and he's gone now. I would have caught this last night but the search wasn't working until now.
02-08-2009, 09:44 PM
#896
Safety Car
Should the Accord Hybrid Make a Comeback
Now that I am seeing more & more Camry hybrids on the road, I started thinking whether or not Honda should take another stab @ the Accord hybrid ... especially since their diesel plans seem to be on hold.
Looking at the #s, the Accord Hybrid w/ its v6 engine obviously had a lot more HP & torque than the 4 cylinder Camry hybrid. The EPA estimates had them @ ~7mpg difference in combined driving {29/37 vs 43/37} & MotorTrend found there to be ~5mpg difference. Paired w/ a 4 instead of a 6 cylinder, the Accord Hybrid should definitely be able to close that gap.
If Honda really has cut the price of their IMA in half, then Accord Hybrid should look quite competitive ...
Looking at the #s, the Accord Hybrid w/ its v6 engine obviously had a lot more HP & torque than the 4 cylinder Camry hybrid. The EPA estimates had them @ ~7mpg difference in combined driving {29/37 vs 43/37} & MotorTrend found there to be ~5mpg difference. Paired w/ a 4 instead of a 6 cylinder, the Accord Hybrid should definitely be able to close that gap.
If Honda really has cut the price of their IMA in half, then Accord Hybrid should look quite competitive ...
02-09-2009, 12:44 AM
#897
Senior Moderator
Merged...
02-09-2009, 05:32 AM
#898
Race Director
With the Insight intro, Honda has given up on any more hybrids. Heck even the Fusion beats the Camry. Honda has learned its lesson and will use hybrids only on smaller cars for fuel efficiency, not performance.
04-03-2009, 04:59 PM
#899
The sizzle in the Steak
Honda abandons diesels in favor of hybrids
Thanks to stricter emissions regulations in the United States and Japan, Honda has officially canceled its future diesel plans. The Japanese automaker had planned diesel powerplants for a number of its Honda and Acura vehicles, but will now focus on hybrid technology.
Honda President Takeo Fukui says the decision to abandon diesels was largely based on the cost of making the oil burners compliant with regulations in the U.S. and Japan. “Even for larger-size vehicles, we think it’s more realistic to think about hybrids,” Fukui told Automotive News. “Therefore, we have changed our thinking.” Honda hasn’t made a large hybrid since the Accord Hybrid ended its production run in 2007.
Honda’s decision to abandon clean diesels has already become apparent in one production model. The Acura TSX was slated to get a diesel option this year, but Honda ultimately decided to go with a larger gas V6 engine to avoid any emissions headaches. The Honda Accord and Pilot were also slated to receive a diesel option, but those plans are likely DOA at this point.
Honda President Takeo Fukui says the decision to abandon diesels was largely based on the cost of making the oil burners compliant with regulations in the U.S. and Japan. “Even for larger-size vehicles, we think it’s more realistic to think about hybrids,” Fukui told Automotive News. “Therefore, we have changed our thinking.” Honda hasn’t made a large hybrid since the Accord Hybrid ended its production run in 2007.
Honda’s decision to abandon clean diesels has already become apparent in one production model. The Acura TSX was slated to get a diesel option this year, but Honda ultimately decided to go with a larger gas V6 engine to avoid any emissions headaches. The Honda Accord and Pilot were also slated to receive a diesel option, but those plans are likely DOA at this point.
sad
04-03-2009, 05:22 PM
#900
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Our hopes of one day having a turbo diesel TSX to compete with the C class are vanquished. 
I rode in my uncle's turbo diesel c-class in south africa. Thing is sick! With 5 adults in the car I was shocked at how hard that car pulled.
It may have been a bi-turbo but I don't recall.
I rode in my uncle's turbo diesel c-class in south africa. Thing is sick! With 5 adults in the car I was shocked at how hard that car pulled.
It may have been a bi-turbo but I don't recall.
04-03-2009, 08:29 PM
#901
Senior Moderator
such BS.... ive lost all faith in honda and have no desire to own one of their lame duck automobiles. Hopefully one day this will change
04-03-2009, 08:29 PM
#902
Not just a smell
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That's pretty intelligent and forward thinking of Honda. Its a sad fact that few people realize replacing one fossil fuel with another is not a sustainable solution. Hybrids are a necessary development path for increasing battery/fuel cell performance.
04-03-2009, 08:38 PM
#903
Fahrvergnügen'd
Hydrogen is better than the joke hybrids we're getting foisted upon us by Honda and Toyota.
And a 70mpg VW Polo diesel will be far more efficient than any Prius and doesn't have batteries that will have to be disposed of beneath a mountain in Nevada either.
04-03-2009, 09:05 PM
#904
Not just a smell
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Yes, the current hybrids suck or blow hard (depending on your preference) and cost more resources to make than they save in use but think of the current hybrid/electrics as Model T's. We'll have to suffer through some growing pains till batteries have more service life/capacity/power, and less disposal issues.
04-03-2009, 10:28 PM
#905
Senior Moderator
Hybrids arent necessary. They arent the answer. Diesel is a far better solution for the mid term. Better mileage, much more durable, Can actually tow/haul things. doesnt ruin the environment with the batteries. Hydrogen is the future.
04-03-2009, 11:09 PM
#906
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Haven't you heard of the FCX Clarity? You're criticizing Honda, when the FCX Clarity is the only hydrogen fuel cell car on the market. Amazing.
04-04-2009, 12:16 AM
#907
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Sigh... I was still holding out some hope for the diesel, but this pretty much does it. After stringing me along for years with the temptation of a diesel, they've finally pulled the plug. I'm not sure I'll go forward with a TSX purchase with this news. I think Honda may have just lost themselves a potential Acura customer.
04-04-2009, 02:43 AM
#908
Senior Moderator
Merged.
04-04-2009, 03:19 AM
#909
6G TLX-S
Honda, drop your damn pride for being different from all other car makers. Forget about your "exotic metal catalyst" approach to curb diesel emissions, just follow others using urea injections.
04-04-2009, 03:39 AM
#910
Race Director
That article is such total crap - there's no way Honda can get out of the diesel business as long as it sells vehicles in Europe. Just as any automotive announcement introducing something new has to be taken with a grain of salt in this climate, any "cancellation" has to be regarded the same.
While it may not be a "diesel" engine, look for Honda to come out with an engine that can burn anything from gas to diesel (development has been going on for some time). Hybrids, electric, hydrogen, CNG and other alternatively powered cars will be niche for long time to come.
While it may not be a "diesel" engine, look for Honda to come out with an engine that can burn anything from gas to diesel (development has been going on for some time). Hybrids, electric, hydrogen, CNG and other alternatively powered cars will be niche for long time to come.
04-04-2009, 08:25 AM
#911
Senior Moderator
You guys know my position when it comes to diesel vs hybrid. 
Now bring back the Accord V6H and price it within $2,000 of the AV6 EX-L w/Navi and I'm in when the lease is up on my 07 AV6.
Now bring back the Accord V6H and price it within $2,000 of the AV6 EX-L w/Navi and I'm in when the lease is up on my 07 AV6.
04-04-2009, 09:12 PM
#912
6G TLX-S
That article is such total crap - there's no way Honda can get out of the diesel business as long as it sells vehicles in Europe. Just as any automotive announcement introducing something new has to be taken with a grain of salt in this climate, any "cancellation" has to be regarded the same.
While it may not be a "diesel" engine, look for Honda to come out with an engine that can burn anything from gas to diesel (development has been going on for some time). Hybrids, electric, hydrogen, CNG and other alternatively powered cars will be niche for long time to come.
While it may not be a "diesel" engine, look for Honda to come out with an engine that can burn anything from gas to diesel (development has been going on for some time). Hybrids, electric, hydrogen, CNG and other alternatively powered cars will be niche for long time to come.
In the worst case, Honda simply sells diesel engine vehicles everywhere in the world except North America.
04-05-2009, 12:42 AM
#913
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Not sure if this has been posted before, but Honda recently signed a pact with GS Yuasa which is a battery company. Find more info here,
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=822923
Basically they will manufacture, R&D, and sell li-ion batteries. I guess it's safe to assume that these batteries will be used on future Honda Hybrids.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=822923
Basically they will manufacture, R&D, and sell li-ion batteries. I guess it's safe to assume that these batteries will be used on future Honda Hybrids.
04-05-2009, 12:33 PM
#914
They need to quit messing around with liquid fuels anyway and focus on making full electric more viable for day to day use. Basically that's what they're doing by focusing on the gas/electric hybrid, so I can't say I disagree with this strateegery.
04-06-2009, 12:57 PM
#915
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Several weeks ago I sent a letter to Honda and Acura voicing my opinion regarding the then delay (impending cancellation) of the diesel TSX and diesel program. I received a letter from Acura saying to give a representative a call.
I just spoke with the Acura rep. He said Honda has temporarily stopped the diesel initiative due to present economic conditions, but that it may resume at some point in the future. He said they're currently focusing on the products their customers need, and while they are working on several technological advancements, some have been temporarily stopped because of the economy.
I noted to him that the CEO indicated the program had been canceled, and he said in present conditions, the company's stance can change day to day, so he can't assume Honda's current position on the program. According to him, at least, several programs, including the diesel may be resumed at any time if conditions change and they decide it's in their best interest. We'll see... Fukui's words seemed pretty certain, though just a year ago "we will put a diesel into an Acura in 2009" seemed pretty damn certain.
I also asked about the manual V6 TSX, and he said he doesn't know for sure, but given past history -- like with the TL -- there's a good chance it will get a MT in a year.
Anyway, the rep said he would forward my letter along with my interest in the MT V6 TSX to product planning and engineering so they can stay in the loop on what customers want.
I just spoke with the Acura rep. He said Honda has temporarily stopped the diesel initiative due to present economic conditions, but that it may resume at some point in the future. He said they're currently focusing on the products their customers need, and while they are working on several technological advancements, some have been temporarily stopped because of the economy.
I noted to him that the CEO indicated the program had been canceled, and he said in present conditions, the company's stance can change day to day, so he can't assume Honda's current position on the program. According to him, at least, several programs, including the diesel may be resumed at any time if conditions change and they decide it's in their best interest. We'll see... Fukui's words seemed pretty certain, though just a year ago "we will put a diesel into an Acura in 2009" seemed pretty damn certain.
I also asked about the manual V6 TSX, and he said he doesn't know for sure, but given past history -- like with the TL -- there's a good chance it will get a MT in a year.
Anyway, the rep said he would forward my letter along with my interest in the MT V6 TSX to product planning and engineering so they can stay in the loop on what customers want.
04-06-2009, 01:44 PM
#916
Senior Moderator
^ Well that's slightly encouraging, anyway. Maybe I'll send a letter as well. I will say that I am a bit surprised that you got an actual response, even if it was a bit vague. I, too, wanted to purchase a diesel TSX, and was very disappointed by its cancellation.
I still think they should attempt diesels in the SUVs, due to these vehicles being so heavy and diesel engines being so full of torque. Hopefully they will bring the program back to life when the economy improves.
I still think they should attempt diesels in the SUVs, due to these vehicles being so heavy and diesel engines being so full of torque. Hopefully they will bring the program back to life when the economy improves.
04-06-2009, 02:54 PM
#917
Several weeks ago I sent a letter to Honda and Acura voicing my opinion regarding the then delay (impending cancellation) of the diesel TSX and diesel program. I received a letter from Acura saying to give a representative a call.
I just spoke with the Acura rep. He said Honda has temporarily stopped the diesel initiative due to present economic conditions, but that it may resume at some point in the future. He said they're currently focusing on the products their customers need, and while they are working on several technological advancements, some have been temporarily stopped because of the economy.
I noted to him that the CEO indicated the program had been canceled, and he said in present conditions, the company's stance can change day to day, so he can't assume Honda's current position on the program. According to him, at least, several programs, including the diesel may be resumed at any time if conditions change and they decide it's in their best interest. We'll see... Fukui's words seemed pretty certain, though just a year ago "we will put a diesel into an Acura in 2009" seemed pretty damn certain.
I also asked about the manual V6 TSX, and he said he doesn't know for sure, but given past history -- like with the TL -- there's a good chance it will get a MT in a year.
Anyway, the rep said he would forward my letter along with my interest in the MT V6 TSX to product planning and engineering so they can stay in the loop on what customers want.
I just spoke with the Acura rep. He said Honda has temporarily stopped the diesel initiative due to present economic conditions, but that it may resume at some point in the future. He said they're currently focusing on the products their customers need, and while they are working on several technological advancements, some have been temporarily stopped because of the economy.
I noted to him that the CEO indicated the program had been canceled, and he said in present conditions, the company's stance can change day to day, so he can't assume Honda's current position on the program. According to him, at least, several programs, including the diesel may be resumed at any time if conditions change and they decide it's in their best interest. We'll see... Fukui's words seemed pretty certain, though just a year ago "we will put a diesel into an Acura in 2009" seemed pretty damn certain.
I also asked about the manual V6 TSX, and he said he doesn't know for sure, but given past history -- like with the TL -- there's a good chance it will get a MT in a year.
Anyway, the rep said he would forward my letter along with my interest in the MT V6 TSX to product planning and engineering so they can stay in the loop on what customers want.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=144990
Wegehaupt also confirmed that VW will add a diesel engine to the 2010 Golf lineup in the U.S. The engine, a 140-horsepower 2.0-liter inline-4, is also used in the Volkswagen Jetta. The diesel will be available this fall, he said.
Wegehaupt also confirmed that VW will add a diesel engine to the 2010 Golf lineup in the U.S. The engine, a 140-horsepower 2.0-liter inline-4, is also used in the Volkswagen Jetta. The diesel will be available this fall, he said.
http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/ar/...401/wall.html?
return=http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/ar/European_bullish_diesel_090401/
European Brands Still Bullish About Diesels
Volkswagen is seeing an 80% take rate for its TDI diesel option on the Jetta Sportwagen and a 30% take rate on the Jetta sedan. Mercedes is seeing strong ...
return=http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/ar/European_bullish_diesel_090401/
European Brands Still Bullish About Diesels
Volkswagen is seeing an 80% take rate for its TDI diesel option on the Jetta Sportwagen and a 30% take rate on the Jetta sedan. Mercedes is seeing strong ...
04-06-2009, 05:19 PM
#918
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SSFTSX, the V6 TSX is definitely not for you. It's for those that want some V6 performance in a smaller package than the current TL. I'm sure you have noticed (and you are probably one of them) that the current TL is too big for a lot of people. And when you look at the TSX forum, there had been many people asking for a V6 TSX, even though the 3G TL was available for them. So indeed, there's a demand.
No, not everyone needs or wants a V6 in a TSX, but there's enough demand out there to convince Honda to build a V6 TSX. In the last gen, they didn't put it in because re-engineering the 1st gen TSX to fit a V6 would cost way too much. However, this time around, the car's been engineered to accommodate the V6.
Will it cannibalize TL FWD's sale? May be? But perhaps the gains from selling more TSX is enough to offset the loss from selling less TL. We will know in the future.
No, not everyone needs or wants a V6 in a TSX, but there's enough demand out there to convince Honda to build a V6 TSX. In the last gen, they didn't put it in because re-engineering the 1st gen TSX to fit a V6 would cost way too much. However, this time around, the car's been engineered to accommodate the V6.
Will it cannibalize TL FWD's sale? May be? But perhaps the gains from selling more TSX is enough to offset the loss from selling less TL. We will know in the future.
04-06-2009, 06:41 PM
#919
6G TLX-S
^^^^^ Look at the TL & RL forums, also many people have been asking for a RWD chassis and a V8 for the RL. So indeed, there have been many demands too. But are we getting it ?? NO, it's just a bunch of lies.
04-06-2009, 07:51 PM
#920
SSFTSX, the V6 TSX is definitely not for you. It's for those that want some V6 performance in a smaller package than the current TL. I'm sure you have noticed (and you are probably one of them) that the current TL is too big for a lot of people. And when you look at the TSX forum, there had been many people asking for a V6 TSX, even though the 3G TL was available for them. So indeed, there's a demand.
No, not everyone needs or wants a V6 in a TSX, but there's enough demand out there to convince Honda to build a V6 TSX. In the last gen, they didn't put it in because re-engineering the 1st gen TSX to fit a V6 would cost way too much. However, this time around, the car's been engineered to accommodate the V6.
Will it cannibalize TL FWD's sale? May be? But perhaps the gains from selling more TSX is enough to offset the loss from selling less TL. We will know in the future.
No, not everyone needs or wants a V6 in a TSX, but there's enough demand out there to convince Honda to build a V6 TSX. In the last gen, they didn't put it in because re-engineering the 1st gen TSX to fit a V6 would cost way too much. However, this time around, the car's been engineered to accommodate the V6.
Will it cannibalize TL FWD's sale? May be? But perhaps the gains from selling more TSX is enough to offset the loss from selling less TL. We will know in the future.
Look at Lexus. It has fallen behind MB/BMW in US market and it has the best hybrid/V6/transmission lineup.
so this news that hybrid alone works is US market is not true.
EuroAccord (TSX) not only needs 4 cylinder diesle but V6 high performance diesel like 335D. that is the best strategy for EU/China/US market.