Honda: Development and Technology News
04-13-2009, 01:13 AM
#1001
You'll Never Walk Alone
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I see your point and agree the J needs to be replaced. But lets look at it this way. All of those other engines (except maybe the VQ?) have direct injection and a DOHC design and yet the SOHC Honda engine without DI is right there with them in HP and TQ.
All I'm saying is their making the most of what they have available.
All I'm saying is their making the most of what they have available.
And SSFTSX, did you just say 6AT won't make the TL or any other 5AT Honda's faster? lol, Edward, do you agree with that?
04-13-2009, 04:44 PM
#1002
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Yes, I guess we're thinking of competitveness in different angles. Your angle is to do with using engine displacement to hide engine output inefficiency, whereas my angle is to do with comparing output power over engine displacement, and Honda was once used to be among the best in tuning for HP/litre figures.
Note that the Lexus and the Cadillac V6's can turn out equivalent engine output as the Acura 3.7L, but with only 3.5L and 3.6L respectively; whereas with the same 3.7L displacement, the Infiniti V6 can turn out 25 HP more than the Acura.
Even auto makers from developing countries know how to generate more HP from increased engine displacement, there is nothing so-called "Advance" in it.
For the past five or so years, competitors have been busy at work inventing and/or incorporating new engine technologies to increase engine outputs, whereas Honda/Acura has also been busy but at boring out the cylinders to increase displacements rather than going for "Advance" technologies, such as direct gasoline injection, etc. That's why I don't think that the J-series is competitive in this modern auto world, especially coming out from Honda.
Note that the Lexus and the Cadillac V6's can turn out equivalent engine output as the Acura 3.7L, but with only 3.5L and 3.6L respectively; whereas with the same 3.7L displacement, the Infiniti V6 can turn out 25 HP more than the Acura.
Even auto makers from developing countries know how to generate more HP from increased engine displacement, there is nothing so-called "Advance" in it.
For the past five or so years, competitors have been busy at work inventing and/or incorporating new engine technologies to increase engine outputs, whereas Honda/Acura has also been busy but at boring out the cylinders to increase displacements rather than going for "Advance" technologies, such as direct gasoline injection, etc. That's why I don't think that the J-series is competitive in this modern auto world, especially coming out from Honda.
I still consider the J series to be competitive as it has similar output to the other engines. It is not cutting edge or class leading, but it is refined and still gives competitive power numbers. I am hoping that the J-series will be replaced for the next RL, as it is time for Honda to integrate some of the recent technological advancements.
04-13-2009, 05:02 PM
#1003
I certainly agree that Acura's SOHC, non-DI J series is older and less advanced than the other engines. However, the exterior dimensions and weight of the J37 are the same as those of the J35, so it isn't like Acura has been using physically larger and heavier engines to increase power.
04-13-2009, 05:39 PM
#1004
Senior Moderator
We've digressed quite a bit in the last couple of days. Let's steer this back to the topic at hand or I'll have to shut 'er down.
04-13-2009, 05:45 PM
#1005
LOL, I thought I was in the ZDX thread. WTF, I can't even blame that on lack of coffee since it was after 3 cups...
04-14-2009, 12:45 AM
#1006
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Back when the J Series debuted, they pointed out that the engine was something like 80 cm narrower bank to bank than the VQ and 120 cm shorter from oil pan to valve cover than the Toyota V-6. (the two numbers might be backwards...it's been a long time). It is a very compact engine, and it a direct response to the criticism of the outgoing Legend Type II engine's lack of low rpm torque.
04-15-2009, 01:58 PM
#1007
04-27-2009, 06:27 PM
#1009
Safety Car
Plug-Ins
While Honda still sees hydrogen as the best long-term replacement for gasoline, the automaker will begin pursuing plug-in technology. In an interview with Bloomberg, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui said that the Japanese automaker will accommodate to the preference of the U.S. government for plug-in hybrid electric-vehicles and trucks.
Fukui, who will be stepping down from his CEO position in June, has been pretty outspoken for his feelings on plug-in technology. Fukui feels that it is a unnecessary short-term resolution for the auto-industry to curb CO2 emissions due to pressure from government regulations.
Fukui said that Honda will not abandon its hydrogen fuel-cell efforts and will continue development on its FCX Clarity sedan, which it leases to select customers in the Los Angeles are.
Honda recently announced a joint venture with GS Yuasa Corp. to build lithium-ion battery packs for the company’s conventional hybrids. Fukui said that the collaboration could be extended to produce batteries for plug-in hybrid vehicles as well.
Fukui, who will be stepping down from his CEO position in June, has been pretty outspoken for his feelings on plug-in technology. Fukui feels that it is a unnecessary short-term resolution for the auto-industry to curb CO2 emissions due to pressure from government regulations.
Fukui said that Honda will not abandon its hydrogen fuel-cell efforts and will continue development on its FCX Clarity sedan, which it leases to select customers in the Los Angeles are.
Honda recently announced a joint venture with GS Yuasa Corp. to build lithium-ion battery packs for the company’s conventional hybrids. Fukui said that the collaboration could be extended to produce batteries for plug-in hybrid vehicles as well.
04-28-2009, 01:47 AM
#1010
Race Director
Fukui, who will be stepping down from his CEO position in June, has been pretty outspoken for his feelings on plug-in technology. Fukui feels that it is a unnecessary short-term resolution for the auto-industry to curb CO2 emissions due to pressure from government regulations.
08-22-2009, 03:24 PM
#1011
Honda: Electric Car news **Honda Fit EV Debuts in LA (page 2)**
Wow, what an interesting development! I can only wonder if these guys know something about future batter technology that we don't!?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...X-UdQD9A7RH500
It still seems to me that there is no way to get sufficient range in an all electric unless it's tiny like the Tesla. Still, I could use a car with a 'guaranteed' 100 mile range no matter how hard you drive it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...X-UdQD9A7RH500
It still seems to me that there is no way to get sufficient range in an all electric unless it's tiny like the Tesla. Still, I could use a car with a 'guaranteed' 100 mile range no matter how hard you drive it.
08-22-2009, 10:40 PM
#1012
Senior Moderator
I knew this was coming given GM's Volt. Good news for Honda!
08-23-2009, 07:25 AM
#1013
Race Director
Every maker needs to look like they're on the PC electric car bandwagon. Anything more than 1-2 years out can be delayed/canceled - Honda has shown they're really good at that.
08-24-2009, 10:36 AM
#1016
The sizzle in the Steak
Bring the diesels....kill the electrics
08-24-2009, 11:08 AM
#1017
Go Big Blue!
All these mileage numbers are based on just running the engine. What happens when you want to do something like listen to the radio, OR, turn on the air conditioning? These things are years away from being a mainstream option. Hell, car makers can't even get people to buy diesels because of the minor "disruption" to the normal way of doing things.
Having said that, I read somewhere recently where Toyota made a huge breakthru in Lithium battery technology. Could improve capacity 10 fold. That's about what we'd need before it's practical.
Having said that, I read somewhere recently where Toyota made a huge breakthru in Lithium battery technology. Could improve capacity 10 fold. That's about what we'd need before it's practical.
08-24-2009, 12:05 PM
#1019
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hon...ar-until-2015/
Honda: No Electric Car Until 2015
By Edward Niedermeyer
August 24, 2009
Honda will be showing a prototype electric car at the Tokyo Auto Show in October, as the EV-adverse automaker prepares to offer a battery-electric option. And though development is going forward now, according to reports from Automotive News [sub], the Honda EV won’t be reaching the market until 2015. Honda had previously committed to its nickel-metal hydride battery technology (along with its hydrogen fuel cell system), and it’s not clear that this new vehicle represents a shift to lithium-ion technology. That might explain the long delay; Nissan’s Leaf EV and GM’s Volt EREV are supposed to go on sale in late 2010. But Honda’s not slacking, it’s just doing things the old-fashioned way. The Motor Company will be releasing electric motorcycles around the same time the Leaf and Volt come out and building from there. Sound familiar?
Honda: No Electric Car Until 2015
By Edward Niedermeyer
August 24, 2009
Honda will be showing a prototype electric car at the Tokyo Auto Show in October, as the EV-adverse automaker prepares to offer a battery-electric option. And though development is going forward now, according to reports from Automotive News [sub], the Honda EV won’t be reaching the market until 2015. Honda had previously committed to its nickel-metal hydride battery technology (along with its hydrogen fuel cell system), and it’s not clear that this new vehicle represents a shift to lithium-ion technology. That might explain the long delay; Nissan’s Leaf EV and GM’s Volt EREV are supposed to go on sale in late 2010. But Honda’s not slacking, it’s just doing things the old-fashioned way. The Motor Company will be releasing electric motorcycles around the same time the Leaf and Volt come out and building from there. Sound familiar?
08-24-2009, 12:07 PM
#1020
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssC...33069520090822
UPDATE 1-Honda to unveil electric car in US by 2015-Nikkei
TOKYO, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co Ltd (7267.T) plans to develop an electric car to debut in the U.S. market by around 2015 as tighter environmental regulations push demand for zero-emission vehicles, the Nikkei newspaper said on Saturday.
A spokesperson for the company, Japan's No. 2 automaker, said it was developing an electric car but had not decided when to launch it.
The company could also not comment on the Nikkei business daily's report, without sources, that a prototype of the car would be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show in October.
The vehicle is expected to be around the size of a minicar, the Nikkei said.
Other automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and Volkswagen AG (VOWG.DE) have also announced plans to launch electric cars in the next few years. [ID:nN12291449]
But they say it could take decades for the vehicles to spread due to their high cost, limited driving range and long charging times with the current battery technology.
Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), Japan's third biggest automaker, unveiled its electric car "Leaf" earlier this month with plans to begin selling it in the United States, Japan and Europe towards the end of 2010. [ID:nT31006] (Reporting by Chisa Fujioka and Yoshifumi Takemoto; Editing by Alex Richardson)
UPDATE 1-Honda to unveil electric car in US by 2015-Nikkei
TOKYO, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co Ltd (7267.T) plans to develop an electric car to debut in the U.S. market by around 2015 as tighter environmental regulations push demand for zero-emission vehicles, the Nikkei newspaper said on Saturday.
A spokesperson for the company, Japan's No. 2 automaker, said it was developing an electric car but had not decided when to launch it.
The company could also not comment on the Nikkei business daily's report, without sources, that a prototype of the car would be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show in October.
The vehicle is expected to be around the size of a minicar, the Nikkei said.
Other automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and Volkswagen AG (VOWG.DE) have also announced plans to launch electric cars in the next few years. [ID:nN12291449]
But they say it could take decades for the vehicles to spread due to their high cost, limited driving range and long charging times with the current battery technology.
Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), Japan's third biggest automaker, unveiled its electric car "Leaf" earlier this month with plans to begin selling it in the United States, Japan and Europe towards the end of 2010. [ID:nT31006] (Reporting by Chisa Fujioka and Yoshifumi Takemoto; Editing by Alex Richardson)
08-24-2009, 01:41 PM
#1021
The sizzle in the Steak
So a Honda Electric version of the Smart?
08-24-2009, 06:02 PM
#1022
All these mileage numbers are based on just running the engine. What happens when you want to do something like listen to the radio, OR, turn on the air conditioning? These things are years away from being a mainstream option. Hell, car makers can't even get people to buy diesels because of the minor "disruption" to the normal way of doing things.
Having said that, I read somewhere recently where Toyota made a huge breakthru in Lithium battery technology. Could improve capacity 10 fold. That's about what we'd need before it's practical.
Having said that, I read somewhere recently where Toyota made a huge breakthru in Lithium battery technology. Could improve capacity 10 fold. That's about what we'd need before it's practical.
All it will take is one major breakthrough in battery tech to get up to 300-400 miles on a charge (or more) with a quicker charging time, and gasoline cars will be on the way out in a hurry (relatively)
08-24-2009, 06:15 PM
#1023
The sizzle in the Steak
...but no way are gasoline cars going to be gone for good. You think peeps in Africa, India....majority of thrid world countries have electricity readily available to "plug-in" their cars? NOPE.
Gasoline and diesel are much easier to run.
08-24-2009, 06:49 PM
#1024
Go Big Blue!
I just read it this week. I'll look for it
08-24-2009, 07:57 PM
#1025
Senior Moderator
Perhaps....but that's a helluva stretch.
...but no way are gasoline cars going to be gone for good. You think peeps in Africa, India....majority of thrid world countries have electricity readily available to "plug-in" their cars? NOPE.
Gasoline and diesel are much easier to run.
...but no way are gasoline cars going to be gone for good. You think peeps in Africa, India....majority of thrid world countries have electricity readily available to "plug-in" their cars? NOPE.
Gasoline and diesel are much easier to run.
Not even to mention anyone even in the US, Canada, Europe, etc. who does not have a garage in which to plug into an outlet. What about all the people in apartments and condos with no outlets? They have nowhere to charge a car.
08-25-2009, 07:43 AM
#1026
Go Big Blue!
08-25-2009, 09:01 AM
#1027
AZ Community Team
The good news IMO in the original Honda article is maybe they've seen the light and are dropping their fuel-cell approach to alternative fuel vehicles. Electricity is far more commonly available in urban/suburbs than hydrogen or Natural Gas stations.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-25-2009 at 09:04 AM.
08-25-2009, 01:51 PM
#1029
Perhaps....but that's a helluva stretch.
...but no way are gasoline cars going to be gone for good. You think peeps in Africa, India....majority of thrid world countries have electricity readily available to "plug-in" their cars? NOPE.
Gasoline and diesel are much easier to run.
...but no way are gasoline cars going to be gone for good. You think peeps in Africa, India....majority of thrid world countries have electricity readily available to "plug-in" their cars? NOPE.
Gasoline and diesel are much easier to run.
)
08-25-2009, 05:43 PM
#1030
Race Director
I didn't mean next month. I'm sure gasoline engines will be around for decades to come, but all-electric vehicles could easily have a large slice of the market share...1/4-1/3 of it, in 10 years wouldn't be unreasonable. No, they woundn't work for everyone. (Just most people)
)
08-25-2009, 05:50 PM
#1031
The sizzle in the Steak
I didn't mean next month. I'm sure gasoline engines will be around for decades to come, but all-electric vehicles could easily have a large slice of the market share...1/4-1/3 of it, in 10 years wouldn't be unreasonable. No, they woundn't work for everyone. (Just most people)
)
1/4 to 1/3 in 10 years?!?!? Put down the bong.It wouldn't work for at least half of the globe.
08-25-2009, 05:56 PM
#1032
Random thoughts (to no one in particular)
- Honda needs to 'get on the BEV bandwagon' or risk being on the losing side if BEV should 'accidentally' win. Beta was superior to VHS but we know how that came out.
-Toyota supposedly has around 2000 patents on their HSD, if they compile a similar patent portfolio around BEVs, it could introduce an OPEC like situation where everyone has to pay Toyota a licensing fee to use "Battery Synergy Drive"
- I think there is a 100 mile range "sweet spot". BUT it needs to be 100 miles worst case, not 'gamed' EPA numbers.
- Another dilemma is that since a BEV is a 'city car' for around town errands and short trips, how is the city driver supposed to recharge it? In my town, most city dwellers live in apartments and don't have a traditional garage. Charging terminals in condo garages? What about those that park on the street?
- One of the supposed pluses of plug-ins is that you charge at night when loads and prices are lower. As far as I can tell, we pay the same rate day or night. What about in your city? Does anyone here have different rates?
- Honda needs to 'get on the BEV bandwagon' or risk being on the losing side if BEV should 'accidentally' win. Beta was superior to VHS but we know how that came out.
-Toyota supposedly has around 2000 patents on their HSD, if they compile a similar patent portfolio around BEVs, it could introduce an OPEC like situation where everyone has to pay Toyota a licensing fee to use "Battery Synergy Drive"
- I think there is a 100 mile range "sweet spot". BUT it needs to be 100 miles worst case, not 'gamed' EPA numbers.
- Another dilemma is that since a BEV is a 'city car' for around town errands and short trips, how is the city driver supposed to recharge it? In my town, most city dwellers live in apartments and don't have a traditional garage. Charging terminals in condo garages? What about those that park on the street?
- One of the supposed pluses of plug-ins is that you charge at night when loads and prices are lower. As far as I can tell, we pay the same rate day or night. What about in your city? Does anyone here have different rates?
08-25-2009, 06:08 PM
#1033
The sizzle in the Steak
Random thoughts (to no one in particular)
- Honda needs to 'get on the BEV bandwagon' or risk being on the losing side if BEV should 'accidentally' win. Beta was superior to VHS but we know how that came out.
-Toyota supposedly has around 2000 patents on their HSD, if they compile a similar patent portfolio around BEVs, it could introduce an OPEC like situation where everyone has to pay Toyota a licensing fee to use "Battery Synergy Drive"
- I think there is a 100 mile range "sweet spot". BUT it needs to be 100 miles worst case, not 'gamed' EPA numbers.
- Another dilemma is that since a BEV is a 'city car' for around town errands and short trips, how is the city driver supposed to recharge it? In my town, most city dwellers live in apartments and don't have a traditional garage. Charging terminals in condo garages? What about those that park on the street?
- One of the supposed pluses of plug-ins is that you charge at night when loads and prices are lower. As far as I can tell, we pay the same rate day or night. What about in your city? Does anyone here have different rates?
- Honda needs to 'get on the BEV bandwagon' or risk being on the losing side if BEV should 'accidentally' win. Beta was superior to VHS but we know how that came out.
-Toyota supposedly has around 2000 patents on their HSD, if they compile a similar patent portfolio around BEVs, it could introduce an OPEC like situation where everyone has to pay Toyota a licensing fee to use "Battery Synergy Drive"
- I think there is a 100 mile range "sweet spot". BUT it needs to be 100 miles worst case, not 'gamed' EPA numbers.
- Another dilemma is that since a BEV is a 'city car' for around town errands and short trips, how is the city driver supposed to recharge it? In my town, most city dwellers live in apartments and don't have a traditional garage. Charging terminals in condo garages? What about those that park on the street?
- One of the supposed pluses of plug-ins is that you charge at night when loads and prices are lower. As far as I can tell, we pay the same rate day or night. What about in your city? Does anyone here have different rates?
Electrical "charging" infrastructure....or lack thereof:
Unless you live in a single family home or have a unit with a garage....there is no way to get power for your vehicle......not to mention the better part of the world is not set up for charging your car via electricity from your "home" at night.
Range, price point, and longevity of vehicle:
Short ranges + high MSRP = no market.
...and who knows what the battery life will be, and how much $$$ to replace the batteries.
09-08-2009, 06:33 PM
#1034
The sizzle in the Steak
Honda: Dual-Clutch Transmission news
Motorcycle news doesn’t normally come across these pages, but Honda has announced an important two-wheeled breakthrough that could eventually surface in its passenger car lineup. Honda announced on Tuesday that it has developed a dual-clutch gearbox for use in its large displacement sport bikes.
According to Honda, its new gearbox is the “first fully automatic motorcycle dual-clutch transmission for large-displacement sport bikes.” As with automotive dual-clutch gearboxes, Honda’s unit uses independent clutches for the odd (1st, 3rd, 5th) and even gears (2nd, 4th, 6th).
Honda says the new gearbox is more efficient than comparable manual transmissions, but failed to give an exact figure. However, dual-clutch gearboxes typically net a 6-8 percent fuel savings in automotive applications.
The dual-clutch unit will feature three different settings – D-mode, S-mode and 6-speed manual mode. The D-mode setting is intended for regular operation, with the S-mode altering shift points for a sportier ride. The 6-speed model can be selected for a more conventional motorcycle ride.
The new transmission will debut in Honda’s highly-anticipated VFR1200 sport bike early next year. The transmission will eventually spread throughout Honda’s motorcycle range, but the Japanese automaker has no current plans for a dual-clutch unit for its Honda or Acura passenger cars.
According to Honda, its new gearbox is the “first fully automatic motorcycle dual-clutch transmission for large-displacement sport bikes.” As with automotive dual-clutch gearboxes, Honda’s unit uses independent clutches for the odd (1st, 3rd, 5th) and even gears (2nd, 4th, 6th).
Honda says the new gearbox is more efficient than comparable manual transmissions, but failed to give an exact figure. However, dual-clutch gearboxes typically net a 6-8 percent fuel savings in automotive applications.
The dual-clutch unit will feature three different settings – D-mode, S-mode and 6-speed manual mode. The D-mode setting is intended for regular operation, with the S-mode altering shift points for a sportier ride. The 6-speed model can be selected for a more conventional motorcycle ride.
The new transmission will debut in Honda’s highly-anticipated VFR1200 sport bike early next year. The transmission will eventually spread throughout Honda’s motorcycle range, but the Japanese automaker has no current plans for a dual-clutch unit for its Honda or Acura passenger cars.
09-08-2009, 06:36 PM
#1035
AZ Community Team
It may be a technical marvel breakthrough but it's against the law to put a sport bike and automatic transmission together.
09-08-2009, 06:59 PM
#1036
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ but the DN01 is fantastic!!!!
...and yes the DN01 is no sportbike...it's no cruiser either....it's not a scooter....and it's 14 grand?!?!?
...and yes the DN01 is no sportbike...it's no cruiser either....it's not a scooter....and it's 14 grand?!?!?
09-08-2009, 07:01 PM
#1037
6G TLX-S
^^^^^ Agree. Automatic transmissions are best reserved for cruisers, not sport bikes.
09-10-2009, 07:53 AM
#1039
Race Director
Here it is in action: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...uch-in-action/
The new ST1200 should have this as an option also.
I have to assume that some of the general technology will be used in the automotive version.
First SH-AWD and now a DSG - see a pattern here?
The new ST1200 should have this as an option also.
I have to assume that some of the general technology will be used in the automotive version.
First SH-AWD and now a DSG - see a pattern here?