Honda: Development and Technology News
10-13-2009, 10:33 PM
#1201
AZ Community Team
I don't know the answer either but my gut instinct is Honda still makes it's own gearboxes out of stubbornness/pride and potentially packaging reasons. It's far simpler to outsource a FR layout longitudinal gearbox.
A FF transverese mounted gearbox is far more difficult to provide all the necessary packaging in dimensions and shape. I'm not 100% sure but I believe most major auto manufacturers still make their own transvere gearboxes. lso add in AWD systems and it's gets more challenging for providing the right dimensions
Even a FF longitudinal is a difficult fit in terms of design.
As many of us know Honda does alot of things their way versus the norm. Sometimes this works better sometimes it's worst. Even their early AT gearboxes are different from the norm, this 1983 Accord 3AT used a mainshaft approach instead of the traditional planetary gear approach.
Most AT manufacturers went away from the traditional AT gearboxs design to the mainshaft/countershaft over time. Mostly because of the increasing number of gears made the mainshaft/countershaft a easier approach. But back when 3AT was easier done with planetary gears, Honda still went with main/counter shafts.
I've also read/heard rumors that Honda with their motorcycle gearbox experience choose to make their own gearboxes because of sharing gear manufacturing tooling and experience.
A FF transverese mounted gearbox is far more difficult to provide all the necessary packaging in dimensions and shape. I'm not 100% sure but I believe most major auto manufacturers still make their own transvere gearboxes. lso add in AWD systems and it's gets more challenging for providing the right dimensions
Even a FF longitudinal is a difficult fit in terms of design.
As many of us know Honda does alot of things their way versus the norm. Sometimes this works better sometimes it's worst. Even their early AT gearboxes are different from the norm, this 1983 Accord 3AT used a mainshaft approach instead of the traditional planetary gear approach.
Most AT manufacturers went away from the traditional AT gearboxs design to the mainshaft/countershaft over time. Mostly because of the increasing number of gears made the mainshaft/countershaft a easier approach. But back when 3AT was easier done with planetary gears, Honda still went with main/counter shafts.
I've also read/heard rumors that Honda with their motorcycle gearbox experience choose to make their own gearboxes because of sharing gear manufacturing tooling and experience.
A valid point. But it has to tell us something (I don't know the answer) but it must tell us something that Honda seems to be the only large scale manufacturer to build their own transmissions. So either everyone else is out to lunch or there's a business case to be made for outsourcing. The numbers tell me there must be a benifit to outsourcing. Yet somehow Honda disagree's. I'd be interested to hear their reasoning.
And Colin, IMO if you come to a site like this with any regularity to hear about and discuss car news you are IMO an enthusiast. Of course your definition may be different.
And Colin, IMO if you come to a site like this with any regularity to hear about and discuss car news you are IMO an enthusiast. Of course your definition may be different.
10-14-2009, 07:50 AM
#1202
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Somewhere out there
Age: 47
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You again contradict yourself in a major way.
Edmunds gives you what real CONSUMERs cross-shop. You've given me nothing, further disproving your credibility
Edmunds gives you what real CONSUMERs cross-shop. You've given me nothing, further disproving your credibility
10-14-2009, 11:55 AM
#1203
The sizzle in the Steak
My point is extremely simple. I stated you post consistently negative comments about Honda/Acura's. Then you claim to that you post positive stuff (post #42). Then you claim you know what you wrote as well as every one else (post #99). If that's the case then tell us where are they, very simple.
This is only about your simple claim that you make positive comments on Honda/Acuras. Very simple, backup your claim.
This is only about your simple claim that you make positive comments on Honda/Acuras. Very simple, backup your claim.
Stop with the nonsense.
Search is your friend.
Feel free to look at all my posts
You are a Honda fanboy...that's fine.....you will find yourself to be the odd man out in Automotive News.
10-14-2009, 12:04 PM
#1204
I was going to reply but looking at your arguing with Cj and others, there is no disproving your tiny warped mind. Rarely do I want to be confrontational but I can only assume you wash cars at an Acura dealership or something b/c your "rage" is unjustified.
Then I remembered what Sarlacc said about you and it makes complete sense now.
Then I remembered what Sarlacc said about you and it makes complete sense now.
10-14-2009, 08:50 PM
#1206
Honda Fanboy
You gave me a link from Edmunds showing what the consumers that frequent Edmunds cross-shopped the TSX with. You used this link to show that the TSX belonged in the class that you designated it too. I gave you another link, also from Edmunds, showing you what people apparently cross-shopped with the A3. It effectively discredited your link. Unless, of course, you really believe that the MDX, E-Class, and A3 are all in the same class.
10-14-2009, 08:56 PM
#1207
Honda Fanboy
I was going to reply but looking at your arguing with Cj and others, there is no disproving your tiny warped mind. Rarely do I want to be confrontational but I can only assume you wash cars at an Acura dealership or something b/c your "rage" is unjustified.
Then I remembered what Sarlacc said about you and it makes complete sense now.
Then I remembered what Sarlacc said about you and it makes complete sense now.
10-15-2009, 04:45 PM
#1209
Senior Moderator
10-19-2009, 07:15 AM
#1210
AZ Community Team
The only nonsense is you not backing up your claims, which if you can't would make you a liar.
10-19-2009, 02:47 PM
#1211
Yes, I have. Have YOU? I am not referring to fully-loaded prices. The Germans would slap Lexus in the face if you compared fully-loaded prices. I am talking about STARTING MSRP's. Hence why I even underlined it in my post so people wouldn't miss it. The RX starts at $38k and that is significantly cheaper than the MDX, X5, FX, ML, and Q5.
In most cases, Lexus is not on par with the German pricing. If they were, people would not buy them as much. My data is coming from www.lexus.com, www.acura.com, www.infinitiusa.com, www.audiusa.com, www.mbusa.com, www.bmw.com. Take a look.
In most cases, Lexus is not on par with the German pricing. If they were, people would not buy them as much. My data is coming from www.lexus.com, www.acura.com, www.infinitiusa.com, www.audiusa.com, www.mbusa.com, www.bmw.com. Take a look.
10-19-2009, 03:46 PM
#1212
The sizzle in the Steak
Nice try.
FWIW I agree with balloon boy's dad: You are a reptilian shape-shifter....and until you prove otherwise, it's clear that you are.
Now go on...prove that you are not. :wink:
10-20-2009, 02:32 AM
#1213
Honda Fanboy
10-20-2009, 06:08 PM
#1214
AZ Community Team
Honda to refocus electric vehicles
About time, the fuel cell/hydrogen route is still far too expensive and the technology is still not ready for mass production. Maybe they'll also develop a real hybrid powertrain like Toyota soon too and ditch the IMA approach.http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-de...-vehicles.html
"Despite prior commitments to move towards hydrogen fuel cells as the alternative fuel of choice for Honda’s future, Honda is now focusing its short term efforts on the development of pure electric vehicles due to the slow development of hydrogen refueling infrastructure.
In an interview with Reuters Honda’s President and CEO, Takanobu Ito said, “I don’t doubt for a second that [hydrogen] fuel cell vehicles are the ultimate green car.” Ito added, “But the infrastructure for hydrogen is moving slowly, and there’s a possibility we won’t be able to get sufficient sales volumes (in California), even if we tried.”
Ito was speaking in regards to legislation in California that will force automakers in the near future to begin selling a particular ratio of zero-emission cars. As Ito pointed out, the infrastructure that Honda had intended to utilize for the introduction of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles does not exist, and there is no indication that it will be put in place in the near future.
The urgency of Honda’s new commitment to re-focusing on the development of electric vehicles is further highlighted by the lackluster sales of the new Honda Insight gas-electric hybrid, and Toyota’s continued success with the Prius hybrid. Honda currently has a joint venture with GS Yuasa, a Japanese battery and power specialist company, for developing the batteries in Honda’s hybrid vehicles. Ito stated that Honda could develop lithium-ion batteries for pure electric vehicles with GS Yuasa if necessary."
10-21-2009, 06:32 AM
#1215
AZ Community Team
Still can't prove and back up your positive Acura/Honda posting claim?
10-21-2009, 10:33 AM
#1216
The sizzle in the Steak
10-26-2009, 05:26 PM
#1217
Safety Car
Honda: Next Generations will be Smaller/Lighter
Honda’s new CEO Takanobu Ito said that the Japanese automaker is reviewing its entire lineup and is looking to build less costly and more fuel-efficient vehicles. That will mean making some major changes to some next-generations vehicles that are already well along in the development process.
One such vehicle undergoing changes is the next-generation Honda Civic.
“We are taking more time to rethink the new Civic and all our models,” Ito told Automotive News. “We had to revisit our development work and planning to comply with the change in the environment.”
Top-level executives have told Civic designers and engineers to make the cars smaller, lighter and more fuel-efficient than originally planned. Originally the next-generation Civic had been planned to be larger than the current model; however, it will now have a smaller exterior.
Overall, Honda will create a sense of roominess on the inside without increasing the size of the Civic.
10-26-2009, 05:33 PM
#1218
The sizzle in the Steak
I like the idea of going "lighter".
10-26-2009, 06:25 PM
#1219
Drifting
I wonder how that might affect the Acura line-up?
10-26-2009, 08:05 PM
#1220
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Heres hoping that includes the NA lineup, as well as Acura vehicles.
10-26-2009, 08:17 PM
#1222
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
If they were to strip ~200lbs from the Si it would transform it to a completely different car.
Now if Honda would spread some innovation around and come out with direct injection engines, then I may have a renewed interest in the Honda/Acura lineup.
10-26-2009, 08:37 PM
#1223
Senior Moderator
...and uglier. And slower (please see 1.5L engines).
Okay, I'm being cynical...
Okay, I'm being cynical...
10-26-2009, 08:58 PM
#1224
Senior Moderator
Better send most of the lineup to weight watchers.
I can't recall how many times I asked for the same size car when they redesigned the TSX. Yet we got a bigger, fatter car.
I'll beleive it when I see it at the dealer.
I can't recall how many times I asked for the same size car when they redesigned the TSX. Yet we got a bigger, fatter car.
I'll beleive it when I see it at the dealer.
10-26-2009, 09:00 PM
#1225
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,521
Received 846 Likes
on
526 Posts
x2, but they dont really need to gain power.
If they were to strip ~200lbs from the Si it would transform it to a completely different car.
Now if Honda would spread some innovation around and come out with direct injection engines, then I may have a renewed interest in the Honda/Acura lineup.
If they were to strip ~200lbs from the Si it would transform it to a completely different car.
Now if Honda would spread some innovation around and come out with direct injection engines, then I may have a renewed interest in the Honda/Acura lineup.
1.) Cost VS benefit
2.) Complexity
3.) Maintenance cost
4.) They eventually came up with an engine without direct injection that would outperform the engine with direct injection
5.) Do not want to buy injectors from other companies (namely, Bosch) as that would limit their development
With that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them coming back to direct injection again if they can fix the above problems.
10-26-2009, 09:02 PM
#1226
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,521
Received 846 Likes
on
526 Posts
Well, they have been talking about emphasizing on "green" for Acura too....so if this news is true, then I'd imagine Honda would apply this "smaller/lighter" thing to Acura vehicles as well.....I certainly don't want to see the next gen TL to be 4500lb...lol.
10-27-2009, 04:57 AM
#1229
Maybe building a lighter car it's more expensive than an heavy one?
BMW was thinking introducing more alluminum in the next gen 5 series... they rethinked it opting for a normal steel frame, less expensive.
BMW was thinking introducing more alluminum in the next gen 5 series... they rethinked it opting for a normal steel frame, less expensive.
10-27-2009, 09:15 AM
#1233
Race Director
Isn't this 
for just about everyone? Welcome to gov't mandated car production. Honda just wants to get ahead of the curve for the EPA mileage rules in a few years. Why do you think the next gen Sonata has only a 4 cyl? Size wise, there was nothing wrong with a Civic from the early 90s.
for just about everyone? Welcome to gov't mandated car production. Honda just wants to get ahead of the curve for the EPA mileage rules in a few years. Why do you think the next gen Sonata has only a 4 cyl? Size wise, there was nothing wrong with a Civic from the early 90s.
Last edited by biker; 10-27-2009 at 09:17 AM.
10-27-2009, 09:26 AM
#1234
Safety Car
Lil More Info
It’s long been the tradition in the automotive world that each new iteration of a car grows larger than the last, but Honda is planning to reverse that trend with the next-generation Civic. Honda will make the new Civic smaller and lighter than the current car.
Honda’s original plan was to make the next Civic a larger and more spacious car, but Honda CEO Takanobu Ito has ordered a thorough reworking of the car already on the drawing board. “We are taking more time to rethink the new Civic and all our models,” Ito told Automotive News. “We had to revisit our development work and planning to comply with the change in the environment.”
With Ito’s new guidelines in place, Honda engineers and designers are now working on a smaller and more lightweight version of the Civic replacement. The car’s physical size will be smaller than the current Civic, but should offer just as much interior volume. The smaller size will also cut weight, resulting in increased efficiency.
However, the changes to the next Civic have some serious implications on Honda’s future rollout schedule. The new Civic was expected to bow sometime next year, but that deadline has undoubtedly been delayed. “The team is struggling. We are injecting more manpower to meet our target,” Ito said of the Civic program.
As a number of other global Honda products are based on the Civic, so expect similar delays in other new model launches.
Last edited by TSX69; 10-27-2009 at 09:29 AM.
10-27-2009, 09:40 AM
#1236
Safety Car
Update
To put it mildly, sales of the Honda Accord Hybrid never quite set the world on fire. Regardless, Japan's second largest automaker is reportedly hard at work developing its proprietary Integrated Motor Assist hybrid platform so that it can once again be used to power larger vehicles like the Accord.
To make it all work out, Honda is adding an extra electric motor to the mix for a total of two, both of which will be more powerful than the single pancake motor used in the current Insight and Civic Hybrid. Also on the menu is a lithium ion battery pack to replace the current nickel metal hydride unit, with added capacity to allow for electric-only operation.
Word on the street (or at least the Nikkei daily newspaper in Japan) is that Honda might place this next-gen hybrid powertrain in a minivan sometime in 2011 or so. Before that, though, we can look forward to the launch of Honda's sporty CR-Z hybrid hatchback. It's important to have your priorities straight, right?
To make it all work out, Honda is adding an extra electric motor to the mix for a total of two, both of which will be more powerful than the single pancake motor used in the current Insight and Civic Hybrid. Also on the menu is a lithium ion battery pack to replace the current nickel metal hydride unit, with added capacity to allow for electric-only operation.
Word on the street (or at least the Nikkei daily newspaper in Japan) is that Honda might place this next-gen hybrid powertrain in a minivan sometime in 2011 or so. Before that, though, we can look forward to the launch of Honda's sporty CR-Z hybrid hatchback. It's important to have your priorities straight, right?
10-27-2009, 09:46 AM
#1237
Racer
It's a good idea, but it seems like they are after a moving target. If they keep changing requirements on their engineers like that, its a potential recipe for disaster. Here's to hoping they don't rush it
10-27-2009, 10:00 AM
#1239
Senior Moderator
Agree with Biker. You guys know Mazda made a similar announcement over a year ago. Honda isn't unique in its thinking here.
Last edited by dom; 10-27-2009 at 10:02 AM.