Honda: Development and Technology News
#601
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Originally Posted by biker
That makes much more sense than trying to uplift sagging RL sales with a V8.
I don't think anyone expects or even wants Acura to shoehorn a V8 into the current gen RL.
#602
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Originally Posted by U8INIT
Not to worry...Acura is going to put their manolo blahniks the automotive worlds necks when its all said and done.....
#603
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Originally Posted by U8INIT
Not to worry...Acura is going to put their manolo blahniks the automotive worlds necks when its all said and done.....
#604
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by dom
I don't think anyone expects or even wants Acura to shoehorn a V8 into the current gen RL.
#605
Race Director
Originally Posted by dom
I don't think anyone expects or even wants Acura to shoehorn a V8 into the current gen RL.
#608
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
Well if the design is not any better it won't help the next gen either.
Absolutely. They need to get the entire package right. And a V8 should be a part of that package.
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Originally Posted by dom
Couldn't disagree more. The car is far too conservative IMO.
#610
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Originally Posted by aesir11
Hahah! Mrdeeno on a RAMPAGE! He's got a lot of really good points!
to some i make some sense. to others i'm honda/acura bashing.
And yet to others, i'm a racists white-supremancists mexican immigrant worker that must be banned immediately.
#611
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
And yet to others, i'm a Acura/Honda hating racist white-supremancists mexican immigrant worker/Infiniti fanboy that must be banned immediately.
#612
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Well Mrdeeno, F234, MaximaPower, and I forgot there were 2 more pro-Nissan people on here. It's cool to have Nissan/Infiniti fans on here. There have been some Acura to Infiniti converts like Tireguy who went from a TSX to a 07 G35x.
All I know is that I hope Acura never releases that ugly sedan concept with a V8. That would be the ultimate betrayal to Acura owners out that.
All I know is that I hope Acura never releases that ugly sedan concept with a V8. That would be the ultimate betrayal to Acura owners out that.
#613
And DownUnder, but I haven't seen a post from him in a long time.
#614
Senior Moderator
right now alot of have assumed that the v8 will be in the RL, but what if this was to go into the new acura sports car that will being in the 2009-2011 area, that would make matters change alot. Also may i just add again that acura won't switch to RWD as they thing SH-AWD is better for saftey and some other reasons.
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Originally Posted by csmeance
right now alot of have assumed that the v8 will be in the RL, but what if this was to go into the new acura sports car that will being in the 2009-2011 area, that would make matters change alot. Also may i just add again that acura won't switch to RWD as they thing SH-AWD is better for saftey and some other reasons.
When did the HSC concept or whatever come out? The hybrid one?
Speaking of that I saw a 02+ NSX today and lunch, gorgeous in red. I think I've seen it in all the colors except the Orange and Blue now.
#616
Race Director
Originally Posted by dom
Fxed.
Well, Acura certainly has some time to get the next RL right but the general look/feel might be hinted at in the next TSX which is just around the corner. Seeing how all makers are going for the "corporate" look, the next RL could just be a bigger version of the TSX.
Last edited by biker; 12-14-2006 at 05:20 PM.
#617
Honda not only needs the V8 for the RL, but also for the MDX, Ridgeline, and possibly the TL-S and Pilot. It's all about options. Having the option for a V8 in these vehicles is nice.
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
Last edited by promax; 12-16-2006 at 02:52 AM.
#618
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by promax
Honda not only needs the V8 for the RL, but also for the MDX, Ridgeline, and possibly the TL-S and Pilot. It's all about options. Having the option for a V8 in these vehicles is nice.
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
#619
The fact that an auto company will go to the lengths to build a ~100k car for the 2nd time, v10 powered rwd sportscar, a car that will set a mark for the company well into the future, yet they can't even build a rwd platform for their REAL LUXURY LINEUP? That is just pathetic imo. This is like 1990 all over again where Acuras above 35k are lost and they get lost behind Lexus/Infiniti.
#620
Race Director
Originally Posted by heyitsme
The fact that an auto company will go to the lengths to build a ~100k car for the 2nd time, v10 powered rwd sportscar, a car that will set a mark for the company well into the future, yet they can't even build a rwd platform for their REAL LUXURY LINEUP? That is just pathetic imo. This is like 1990 all over again where Acuras above 35k are lost and they get lost behind Lexus/Infiniti.
I assume most folks believe Audi is distanced enough from the parent VW. Audi has no RWD platform for its luxury line but they're doing OK. Audi shares most of its stuff with VW models yet they pull off being different enough that people don't mind. If Audi reliability was anywhere the Asian brands they'd be doing much better. In some places in Europe the A6 sells better than 5 series/E class - despite not having a RWD platform. It's not the platform nor the availability of a V8 that made the A6 successful in Europe - it was a nice design with a real good interior.
Last edited by biker; 12-16-2006 at 06:09 PM.
#622
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Originally Posted by biker
They just don't have the resources and the volume to justify RWD platforms. They'll go the Audi route.
if they didn't have resources to develop a RWD platform or V8 that can potentially be used on a variety of VOLUME models, then it is utterly STUPID of them to be spending millions on a very low volume platform that will underpin ONE model and an engine that will be used on ONE model...and a very low volume model at that.
They have the resources, but the people deciding where to spend the money are a bunch of idiots out of touch with the auto industry.
Acura shouldn't need to be "pushing" for a V8. Honda corporate should be able to anticipate the needs of the market for Acura and given a V8 to them years ago. The fact that Acura has to "push" at all for a V8 shows how out of touch Honda is concerning the premium market.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 12-16-2006 at 07:19 PM.
#623
I don't think they're "out of touch," but rather, they emphasize Honda a whole lot more than Acura. One of the top executives, hell I think it was the CEO himself, who said without Honda, there would be no Acura. That tells you right there which one of their brands is the top priority.
#624
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Originally Posted by phile
I don't think they're "out of touch," but rather, they emphasize Honda a whole lot more than Acura. One of the top executives, hell I think it was the CEO himself, who said without Honda, there would be no Acura. That tells you right there which one of their brands is the top priority.
Hondas are successful because they are in line with its markets...the accord is designed and marketed as it should be in the family segment, the civic in the upper entry level segment, the pilot in the family SUV segment, etc.
The TL is successful because its design and marketing is in line with its market...a near-luxury car priced at the near-luxury segment offering value and decent performance.
The RL is not successful because its design and marketing is not in line with the midsize luxury market. Options? Very few. Engine choices? Nope. Design? Decent but on the conservative end. Value? Too much value for this segment.
Toyota and Nissan look to their competitors and look to the market and anticipate what each segment of the market wants and design a car that fits in that particular segment. All successful makes do this, including Honda. But they seem to have neglected this step when they designed the RL.
Honda's design for the RL seems to disregard the competitors and produces a car for the Honda market but prices it out of reach of Honda customers. Why are they basing design and marketing decisions on what works for the Honda market when they are trying to sell a car in the luxury market? To me, that is being out of touch.
#625
Originally Posted by biker
They just don't have the resources and the volume to justify RWD platforms. They'll go the Audi route.
I assume most folks believe Audi is distanced enough from the parent VW. Audi has no RWD platform for its luxury line but they're doing OK. Audi shares most of its stuff with VW models yet they pull off being different enough that people don't mind. If Audi reliability was anywhere the Asian brands they'd be doing much better. In some places in Europe the A6 sells better than 5 series/E class - despite not having a RWD platform. It's not the platform nor the availability of a V8 that made the A6 successful in Europe - it was a nice design with a real good interior.
I assume most folks believe Audi is distanced enough from the parent VW. Audi has no RWD platform for its luxury line but they're doing OK. Audi shares most of its stuff with VW models yet they pull off being different enough that people don't mind. If Audi reliability was anywhere the Asian brands they'd be doing much better. In some places in Europe the A6 sells better than 5 series/E class - despite not having a RWD platform. It's not the platform nor the availability of a V8 that made the A6 successful in Europe - it was a nice design with a real good interior.
#626
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Originally Posted by biker
It just occurred to me - is the next GT-R being handicapped by not having a V8?
Like I said, Acura needs a V8 or bigger, because it needs bigger and heavier vehicles. Porsche developed a V8 for the Cayene and even force fed it because it was needed. It's all about what type of vehicle you're trying to design.
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Originally Posted by promax
Honda not only needs the V8 for the RL, but also for the MDX, Ridgeline, and possibly the TL-S and Pilot. It's all about options. Having the option for a V8 in these vehicles is nice.
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?
Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.
The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10
No way RWD makes sense for the TSX for Acura. Acura will probably do what Audi did and go the RWD-biased-AWD feature for some models. And stop there. In reality you dont need more than that. People dont buy BMWs because of RWD. They buy them because of the control they give drivers, in everyday driving conditions (mostly in the dry). Acura engineers are capable of tuning a SHAWD platform to feel as controled as a BMW (at up to 90% of its capacity). No one goes beyond that and no one cares about going beyond that.
I am sure the TL will go the SHAWD way in the next year or two, however there is no need for a V8 unless it gets significantly heavier. A few more ponies from the 3.5L engine or maybe putting the 3.7L from the MDX in the TL equipped with SHAWD should be fine. The problem is it's not happening quick enough. If it were available now, for the same price, it'd be a hit I believe. What the TL needs the most is a better exterior design, to sell better. Its price is fine, its hardware is fine, its utility and craftsmanship is fine also.
There is no way the RDX will go the V6 route any time soon, unless if they introduce a Type S model which I still doubt it will happen (if they do, it will probably be a 300HP version of the same force fed engine).
Now, the MDX can use a V8, no doubt. It got porky with this new iteration and the 3.7L is barely enough for its price. A Type S model should have a significantly larger engine, say by about at least 700cc.
Same for the RL. It can use a V8, but even more, it can use more room in the rear which means its wheelbase needs to get larger, which means it will get heavier, which means a V8 is necessary as an option. Also, it needs a major exterior redesign.
NSX. Who cares. That is of little interest to Acura for volume, they only need it as a halo car to show they can compete at the super sport level and from what we hear from the rumors, they will be fine with the next NSX. They will not go cheap with that one.
#628
Originally Posted by gavriil
I disagree about the more than two heat levels and more than 8 way power seats, etc. That can maybe make sense to a halo product ala-Lexus-LS which they dont even have currently.
And not only the LS has these features.
Lexus ES350: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.
Lexus IS 250: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.
Lexus GS 350: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.
Lexus LS 460: 16-way driver's (including dual-function lumbar) and 12-way front passenger's (including lumbar) power seats
How does Acura expect to be considered in the same league as Lexus when their IS 250 has 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats with memory for both driver and passenger and the RL has a 8-way power seat for driver and only a 4-way power passenger seat?
I'm not saying power seats will make or break the deal. But little advantages like this make the Lexus image much better.
No way RWD makes sense for the TSX for Acura. Acura will probably do what Audi did and go the RWD-biased-AWD feature for some models. And stop there. In reality you dont need more than that. People dont buy BMWs because of RWD. They buy them because of the control they give drivers, in everyday driving conditions (mostly in the dry). Acura engineers are capable of tuning a SHAWD platform to feel as controled as a BMW (at up to 90% of its capacity). No one goes beyond that and no one cares about going beyond that.
I am sure the TL will go the SHAWD way in the next year or two, however there is no need for a V8 unless it gets significantly heavier. A few more ponies from the 3.5L engine or maybe putting the 3.7L from the MDX in the TL equipped with SHAWD should be fine. The problem is it's not happening quick enough. If it were available now, for the same price, it'd be a hit I believe. What the TL needs the most is a better exterior design, to sell better. Its price is fine, its hardware is fine, its utility and craftsmanship is fine also.
There is no way the RDX will go the V6 route any time soon, unless if they introduce a Type S model which I still doubt it will happen (if they do, it will probably be a 300HP version of the same force fed engine).
#629
Race Director
Originally Posted by heyitsme
Wow, that was spiritual, yet I'm glad Inifinti, a company that sold less than Acura was able to switch to RWD without breaking a sweat. All your Audi talk went to hell in one sentence. Even still, Audi isn't a Player like BMW and MB.
Audi could care less if it was a player as long as it sold enough volume - same for Acura.
No way RWD makes sense for the TSX for Acura. Acura will probably do what Audi did and go the RWD-biased-AWD feature for some models. And stop there. In reality you dont need more than that. People dont buy BMWs because of RWD. They buy them because of the control they give drivers, in everyday driving conditions (mostly in the dry). Acura engineers are capable of tuning a SHAWD platform to feel as controled as a BMW (at up to 90% of its capacity). No one goes beyond that and no one cares about going beyond that.
#630
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Originally Posted by biker
Infiniti was able to switch because they were able to badge engineer JDM models. Honda has no such models, in any market - they'd have to start from scratch.
Audi could care less if it was a player as long as it sold enough volume - same for Acura.
except it will still be FWD biased.
Audi could care less if it was a player as long as it sold enough volume - same for Acura.
except it will still be FWD biased.
Imagine that, one rwd platform to underpin THREE models, 2 of which sell very well. But I guess the infinite wisdom of ASIMO has convinced Honda that it's safer to engineer a rwd platform that can be used for only ONE low volume model.
I think whoever presented the risk analysis to the board regarding a flexible-high-volume production RWD model vs. an inflexible-low-volume production RWD had the chart upside down or the "pros" and "cons" column labels reversed.
I don't htink RWD vs. AWD factor is that important, but this also applies to a V8, which can be used in many many models in both the Acura and Honda lines...but again, it's much safer for honda to invest and develop a low-volume V10 for a low-volume model.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 12-17-2006 at 12:35 PM.
#631
Liquid Ice
Honda developing V6 turbodiesel engine
According to the article the V6 Turbodiesel engine is destined for the USA with introductions in 2009 with the Honda Ridgeline, Pilot, Odyssey, and Acura MDX getting the engine.
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/12/...6-turbodiesel/
Honda is developing a new V6 turbodiesel engine equipped with it’s new NOx catalyst techology which will debut in the new 2nd generation 2.2 liter inline-4 i-CTDi engine. The V6 engine will follow shortly after the launch of the new new 2nd gen inline-4 in the year 2009, and both engines will meet tough new U.S. regulation which requires diesel engines to have emissions pretty much the same level as gasoline engines! The first vehicles that are set to get Honda’s new V6 turbodiesel are Honda’s Ridgeline, Pilot and Odyssey and Acura’s MDX - if you notice, mostly US market vehicles.
Honda Motor Company CEO Takeo Fukui also said that while the 2.3 liter i-VTEC Turbo engine is currently limited to usage in the Acura RDX, it could be possible that the turbocharged gasoline engine might be offered in a Honda vehicle soon, perhaps in a future high performance Accord sedan?
That would be yummy, as revving high to get power is not really a characteristic that goes well with a car that spells space and comfort like the Accord - it’s supposed to waft along really fast with massive torque, not scream along.
Hirohide Ikeno, president of Honda R&D Americas Inc., said the company is also considering V-8 engines. And Honda’s upcoming NSX replacement is said to feature a high performance V10 screamer.
Acura/Honda’s biggest engines right now are currently V6 engines, and this fact hampers US sales for the flagship Acura sedans like the Acura RL, because Americans are after all big fans of big displacements and the V8 growl.
Honda Motor Company CEO Takeo Fukui also said that while the 2.3 liter i-VTEC Turbo engine is currently limited to usage in the Acura RDX, it could be possible that the turbocharged gasoline engine might be offered in a Honda vehicle soon, perhaps in a future high performance Accord sedan?
That would be yummy, as revving high to get power is not really a characteristic that goes well with a car that spells space and comfort like the Accord - it’s supposed to waft along really fast with massive torque, not scream along.
Hirohide Ikeno, president of Honda R&D Americas Inc., said the company is also considering V-8 engines. And Honda’s upcoming NSX replacement is said to feature a high performance V10 screamer.
Acura/Honda’s biggest engines right now are currently V6 engines, and this fact hampers US sales for the flagship Acura sedans like the Acura RL, because Americans are after all big fans of big displacements and the V8 growl.
#633
Race Director
Anyone could have written that from a bit of history, current on goings and common sense.
I'm not sure why the current 2.2 iCDTi engine needs to go to a new gen for the US market - it only needs the special catalyst technology as a bolt on.
MY09 TSX makes the most sense for the I 4 engine. MY08 offered with the RDX drive train only, then the diesel is added a year later (instead of a hybrid) - calendar year 09 seems too far out.
I'm not sure why the current 2.2 iCDTi engine needs to go to a new gen for the US market - it only needs the special catalyst technology as a bolt on.
MY09 TSX makes the most sense for the I 4 engine. MY08 offered with the RDX drive train only, then the diesel is added a year later (instead of a hybrid) - calendar year 09 seems too far out.
#635
Safety Car
2009
Honda 2 Make Diesel V6 for US by 2010
Honda is apparently developing a low-emission diesel V6 engine specifically designed for the U.S. market for the 2010 model year. The engine would be most likely to appear in the Odyssey minivan at first, although installation in Acura sedans and SUVs is a possibility.
According to Nikkei Weekly, a Japanese weekly newspaper, the motor will be designed for vehicles currently using Honda's 3.5 liter V6 engine. Honda is also looking to import its newly developed 2.2 liter four-cylinder diesel engine to the United States. This engine is designed to fit in cars such as the CR-V and Acura TSX.
Honda is apparently developing a low-emission diesel V6 engine specifically designed for the U.S. market for the 2010 model year. The engine would be most likely to appear in the Odyssey minivan at first, although installation in Acura sedans and SUVs is a possibility.
According to Nikkei Weekly, a Japanese weekly newspaper, the motor will be designed for vehicles currently using Honda's 3.5 liter V6 engine. Honda is also looking to import its newly developed 2.2 liter four-cylinder diesel engine to the United States. This engine is designed to fit in cars such as the CR-V and Acura TSX.
#636
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by TSX69
Honda 2 Make Diesel V6 for US by 2010
Honda is apparently developing a low-emission diesel V6 engine specifically designed for the U.S. market for the 2010 model year. The engine would be most likely to appear in the Odyssey minivan at first, although installation in Acura sedans and SUVs is a possibility.
According to Nikkei Weekly, a Japanese weekly newspaper, the motor will be designed for vehicles currently using Honda's 3.5 liter V6 engine. Honda is also looking to import its newly developed 2.2 liter four-cylinder diesel engine to the United States. This engine is designed to fit in cars such as the CR-V and Acura TSX.
Honda is apparently developing a low-emission diesel V6 engine specifically designed for the U.S. market for the 2010 model year. The engine would be most likely to appear in the Odyssey minivan at first, although installation in Acura sedans and SUVs is a possibility.
According to Nikkei Weekly, a Japanese weekly newspaper, the motor will be designed for vehicles currently using Honda's 3.5 liter V6 engine. Honda is also looking to import its newly developed 2.2 liter four-cylinder diesel engine to the United States. This engine is designed to fit in cars such as the CR-V and Acura TSX.
Except, uh, put the V6 in the Acuras. I don't want an even slower TSX.
#637
Race Director
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
I don't want an even slower TSX.
I just re-read my post above and my prediction came true - Honda dropped the hybrid in favor of a diesel for the Accord.
Oh, and I seriously doubt the V6 would be for US only - they can use that in the Legend and a few other vehicles world wide.
#638
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by biker
140HP, but it's the torque that makes the car move.
Of course at 40MPG you can't expect too much performance, 0-60 about 9s.
Of course at 40MPG you can't expect too much performance, 0-60 about 9s.
#639
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
For pete's sake, put it in the cars, too, not just the trucks!!!! V6 diesel in an Accord would be sweet!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121757