Acura: TSX News
02-13-2008 | 11:08 AM
#1122
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by odessa
The whole Acura's upper management must be on crack (and not the good kind). First Honda Pilot, then RL and now the TSX.
I honestly can't imagine any American based Acura execs being happy about this or even making this decision. This is basically Honda Japan saying this is what your getting, take it or leave it. The TSX is at the mercy of the Euro Accord.
02-13-2008 | 11:30 AM
#1123
What Would Don Draper Do?
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by dom
I honestly can't imagine any American based Acura execs being happy about this or even making this decision. This is basically Honda Japan saying this is what your getting, take it or leave it. The TSX is at the mercy of the Euro Accord.
02-13-2008 | 11:34 AM
#1124
Senior Moderator
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
so then why open a separate design facility?
The GRILLE!
I don't think its been open long enough yet. I'd imagine that new design facility will create the next gen TSX
At least I hope so. And even so, is it an exterior design center only? or from the ground up? If they keep basing everything off the Accord how far will they ever really get.
02-13-2008 | 11:53 AM
#1125
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Originally Posted by dom
I honestly can't imagine any American based Acura execs being happy about this or even making this decision. This is basically Honda Japan saying this is what your getting, take it or leave it. The TSX is at the mercy of the Euro Accord.
Now I need to justify buying G35 sedan despite piss poor mileage.
02-13-2008 | 11:54 AM
#1126
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,622
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From: Lexington
Im impressed overall. I'm not surprised that we have a bunch of folks whining and bitching. But from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense to make any radical changes to the car. The car sold extremely well, especially given how much it cost Acura (bring over existing car, and dress it up). Why make any radical changes. This has been the case with MANY new cars introduced, especially products from Nissan/Infiniti - Murano, G35, etc. All these cars sold extremely well, why bother making extensive changes.
Think about BMW's strategy - they always debut a all-new car with existing engines, and then upgrade them mid-life cycle. I'm sure we'll see powertrain updates then.
Existing TSX owners bitched about lack of torque, more features, etc. Other enthusiasts wanted too see diesel engines in the lineup. Acura delivers, and yet the bitching continues.
Would more horsepower have been welcome. Yes. 220hp would have been nice. But then buyers in this segment don't care as much. An Audi A4 2.0T has 200hp - don't see people whining about that. Not to mention, Honda/Acura's commitment to the environment means low emissions is just as big a priority as horsepower.
I guess the sales figures will tell the story....enthusiasts wanting a 2.3 turbo will have to wait for a Type-S version.
Think about BMW's strategy - they always debut a all-new car with existing engines, and then upgrade them mid-life cycle. I'm sure we'll see powertrain updates then.
Existing TSX owners bitched about lack of torque, more features, etc. Other enthusiasts wanted too see diesel engines in the lineup. Acura delivers, and yet the bitching continues.
Would more horsepower have been welcome. Yes. 220hp would have been nice. But then buyers in this segment don't care as much. An Audi A4 2.0T has 200hp - don't see people whining about that. Not to mention, Honda/Acura's commitment to the environment means low emissions is just as big a priority as horsepower.
I guess the sales figures will tell the story....enthusiasts wanting a 2.3 turbo will have to wait for a Type-S version.
02-13-2008 | 01:03 PM
#1130
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
Im impressed overall. I'm not surprised that we have a bunch of folks whining and bitching. But from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense to make any radical changes to the car. The car sold extremely well, especially given how much it cost Acura (bring over existing car, and dress it up). Why make any radical changes. This has been the case with MANY new cars introduced, especially products from Nissan/Infiniti - Murano, G35, etc. All these cars sold extremely well, why bother making extensive changes.
Think about BMW's strategy - they always debut a all-new car with existing engines, and then upgrade them mid-life cycle. I'm sure we'll see powertrain updates then.
Existing TSX owners bitched about lack of torque, more features, etc. Other enthusiasts wanted too see diesel engines in the lineup. Acura delivers, and yet the bitching continues.
Would more horsepower have been welcome. Yes. 220hp would have been nice. But then buyers in this segment don't care as much. An Audi A4 2.0T has 200hp - don't see people whining about that. Not to mention, Honda/Acura's commitment to the environment means low emissions is just as big a priority as horsepower.
I guess the sales figures will tell the story....enthusiasts wanting a 2.3 turbo will have to wait for a Type-S version.
Think about BMW's strategy - they always debut a all-new car with existing engines, and then upgrade them mid-life cycle. I'm sure we'll see powertrain updates then.
Existing TSX owners bitched about lack of torque, more features, etc. Other enthusiasts wanted too see diesel engines in the lineup. Acura delivers, and yet the bitching continues.
Would more horsepower have been welcome. Yes. 220hp would have been nice. But then buyers in this segment don't care as much. An Audi A4 2.0T has 200hp - don't see people whining about that. Not to mention, Honda/Acura's commitment to the environment means low emissions is just as big a priority as horsepower.
I guess the sales figures will tell the story....enthusiasts wanting a 2.3 turbo will have to wait for a Type-S version.
02-13-2008 | 01:09 PM
#1131
Senior Moderator
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Im impressed overall. I'm not surprised that we have a bunch of folks whining and bitching.
I love how the Honda fanboys pull this card.
Like it, because its Honda. If BMW, Infiniti or Lexus released a car with these specs we'd be all over them as well.
Existing TSX owners bitched about lack of torque, more features, etc. Other enthusiasts wanted too see diesel engines in the lineup. Acura delivers, and yet the bitching continues.
What exactly is to be impressed about? Incremental upgrades all over the place??? You're obviously easily impressed. The Audi makes far more torque but delivers the SAME MPG.
I'm a TSX owner, second one actually. There is currently no reason for me to want to upgrade.
A Type-S would change everything of course.
02-13-2008 | 01:28 PM
#1132
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,622
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From: Lexington
Originally Posted by dom
I love how the Honda fanboys pull this card.
Like it, because its Honda. If BMW, Infiniti or Lexus released a car with these specs we'd be all over them as well.
What exactly is to be impressed about? Incremental upgrades all over the place???
You're obviously easily impressed.
Like it, because its Honda. If BMW, Infiniti or Lexus released a car with these specs we'd be all over them as well.
What exactly is to be impressed about? Incremental upgrades all over the place???
You're obviously easily impressed.
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
02-13-2008 | 01:41 PM
#1133
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Its easy for "enthusiasts" like yourself to sit on an office chair and bitch and moan about the lack of this and that, without so much as looking at things from a business standpoint. The fact remains that the current car sold well, and if you look at the average buyer of the current car, they could care less about big hp. I can think of two people in my neighborhood who own TSXs who don't even know how much hp the thing makes. They bought the car because of among other things, a perceived image and higher quality and feature content, high reliability, and great gas mileage. This car doesn't even top 30k fully loaded. You can't even begin to buy a 325i, A4, or IS250 for that price, and once you equip those cars equally to a TSX, you end up paying thousands more.
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
If you've read my posts in this thread or the TSX thread (which I don't expect you to do) you'd know that I have no doubt this car will continue to sell 2.5 to 3.5K units per month. Its still a good car. Better than the 04-08.
But is that the goal? Static sales? How do they expect to lure in new buyers or current TSX owners (which the press release targets as potential buyers) At some point you'd think you want to move forward. The Type S is only part of that. You have to significantly improve the base car.
Get my feet wet is exactly what they did. Now I'll have to move to another brand because they failed to deliver IMO. An opinion that bought the first car, twice.
02-13-2008 | 01:41 PM
#1134
Go Big Blue!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 5
From: Orlando, FLA
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Its easy for "enthusiasts" like yourself to sit on an office chair and bitch and moan about the lack of this and that, without so much as looking at things from a business standpoint. The fact remains that the current car sold well, and if you look at the average buyer of the current car, they could care less about big hp. I can think of two people in my neighborhood who own TSXs who don't even know how much hp the thing makes. They bought the car because of among other things, a perceived image and higher quality and feature content, high reliability, and great gas mileage. This car doesn't even top 30k fully loaded. You can't even begin to buy a 325i, A4, or IS250 for that price, and once you equip those cars equally to a TSX, you end up paying thousands more.
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
Many buy Acura's for the VALUE they offer but get angry with platform sharing and limited options. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Last edited by SpicyMikey; 02-13-2008 at 01:43 PM.
02-13-2008 | 02:09 PM
#1136
Oderint dum metuant.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,496
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From: Lake Wylie
Honda logic: TSX -> TL -> RL. Want to upgrade from your TSX? We have this all new, more powerful TL. The concept of increasing the power in the smaller car is not even a consideration.
02-13-2008 | 02:56 PM
#1137
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,201
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From: YVR
Originally Posted by dom
The GRILLE!
I don't think its been open long enough yet. I'd imagine that new design facility will create the next gen TSX At least I hope so. And even so, is it an exterior design center only? or from the ground up?
If they keep basing everything off the Accord how far will they ever really get.
I don't think its been open long enough yet. I'd imagine that new design facility will create the next gen TSX
At least I hope so. And even so, is it an exterior design center only? or from the ground up? If they keep basing everything off the Accord how far will they ever really get.
02-13-2008 | 03:08 PM
#1138
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,201
Likes: 1,162
From: YVR
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Would more horsepower have been welcome. Yes. 220hp would have been nice. But then buyers in this segment don't care as much. An Audi A4 2.0T has 200hp - don't see people whining about that. Not to mention, Honda/Acura's commitment to the environment means low emissions is just as big a priority as horsepower.
In comparison, the torque curve for a normally aspirated engine (even with gadgets like DOHC, i-VTEC, VANOS, direct injection, etc.) only begins to rise at 1800 rpm. Horsepower is only useful at high rpm, which doesn't really make a car feel powerful at normal cruising speed, unless the rpm is kept very high.
02-13-2008 | 03:10 PM
#1139
Go Big Blue!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,700
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From: Orlando, FLA
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Honda logic: TSX -> TL -> RL. Want to upgrade from your TSX? We have this all new, more powerful TL. The concept of increasing the power in the smaller car is not even a consideration.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they're just idiots
02-13-2008 | 03:19 PM
#1140
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,796
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From: NC
Hmm
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
Or maybe they just felt it would be a bad move to put a new TSX-S on the showroom floor before the new TL is launched. The new TSX is bigger and a V6 with SHAWD would sure make the current TL look like a stupid purchase. Maybe they'll offer the TSX-S in the fall with the new TL and TL-S.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they're just idiots
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they're just idiots
They said that they wanted to be Tier 1 in 5 years but it seems like they were referring to their next generation of cars.
02-13-2008 | 03:20 PM
#1141
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
Or maybe they just felt it would be a bad move to put a new TSX-S on the showroom floor before the new TL is launched. The new TSX is bigger and a V6 with SHAWD would sure make the current TL look like a stupid purchase. Maybe they'll offer teh TSX-S in the fall with the new TL and TL-S.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they're just idiots
02-13-2008 | 08:34 PM
#1142
styling on you
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,274
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles, California
TSX Type S to come in 3 years? Maybe they want to keep their products fresh by introducing new things incrementally to keep things fresh.
With the exception of the RSX, the Type S was introduced after 3 years as a MMC offering.
1999 3.2TL intro, 2002 TL gets a refresh and Acura introduces the Type S variant
2004 TL intro, 3 years later in 07 they refresh the model, and introduce the Type S model again.
With the exception of the RSX, the Type S was introduced after 3 years as a MMC offering.
1999 3.2TL intro, 2002 TL gets a refresh and Acura introduces the Type S variant
2004 TL intro, 3 years later in 07 they refresh the model, and introduce the Type S model again.
02-13-2008 | 08:44 PM
#1143
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,579
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From: Chicago Suburbs
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Its easy for "enthusiasts" like yourself to sit on an office chair and bitch and moan about the lack of this and that, without so much as looking at things from a business standpoint. The fact remains that the current car sold well, and if you look at the average buyer of the current car, they could care less about big hp. I can think of two people in my neighborhood who own TSXs who don't even know how much hp the thing makes. They bought the car because of among other things, a perceived image and higher quality and feature content, high reliability, and great gas mileage. This car doesn't even top 30k fully loaded. You can't even begin to buy a 325i, A4, or IS250 for that price, and once you equip those cars equally to a TSX, you end up paying thousands more.
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
Leave the hp games upto the TL. That car is aimed squarely at the heart of the entry level luxury market, and can afford to cost close to 40k. The TSX gets buyers into the door and get their feet wet. Lots of great features, great quality, safe styling.
Like I said, if either one of us is wrong, the sales figures will tell the story....
02-13-2008 | 08:49 PM
#1144
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,579
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Suburbs
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
If they built cars only for enthusiasts then they wouldn't sell many cars
Like I said above, Acura doesn't know the US market. They are the Japanese Lincoln.
02-13-2008 | 09:27 PM
#1145
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 2
From: Lexington
Originally Posted by Maximized
Not sure where you are learning business, but I'd pick another school. Acura's sales are on a decline and this car isn't going to help. It's obvious that Acura doesn't have a firm grasp of the American luxury car market. BMW, Audi, and Lexus welcome the added market share.
I wasn't talking about sales of ALL Acura automobiles. I was talking about TSX sales. TSX sales have been strong. In 2006, 38,035 were sold. In 2007, 33,037 were sold. Either way, we're looking at ~3000 units a month. A E90 BMW 328i sells 3000 units a month. Like I said, the TSX SELLS WELL.
Acura's investment cost: almost nill considering the car is a Euro-Accord that is brought stateside.
Conclusion: a pretty damned good business, and one that doesn't need to be excessively tampered with. What would most companies do....redo the car over slightly, and give it a pump in sales 2-3 years down the road with a Type-S version.
The TSX is in a niche market, and yet it sells like hotcakes. Not to mention the TL sells like hotcakes in its own market. It outsold the 3 series for two years to become best selling luxury sedan in America, and now its the second best selling luxury sedan.
The TL, TSX, MDX, and to a lesser extent the RDX are fine sellers.
The RL needs work. Not just better sales, but a better car to give Acura a better image. But thats a different thread
02-13-2008 | 09:44 PM
#1147
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,579
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From: Chicago Suburbs
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Not sure where you learn reading comprehension, but I'd pick another school...
I wasn't talking about sales of ALL Acura automobiles. I was talking about TSX sales. TSX sales have been strong. In 2006, 38,035 were sold. In 2007, 33,037 were sold. Either way, we're looking at ~3000 units a month. A E90 BMW 328i sells 3000 units a month. Like I said, the TSX SELLS WELL.
Acura's investment cost: almost nill considering the car is a Euro-Accord that is brought stateside.
Conclusion: a pretty damned good business, and one that doesn't need to be excessively tampered with. What would most companies do....redo the car over slightly, and give it a pump in sales 2-3 years down the road with a Type-S version.
The TSX is in a niche market, and yet it sells like hotcakes. Not to mention the TL sells like hotcakes in its own market. It outsold the 3 series for two years to become best selling luxury sedan in America, and now its the second best selling luxury sedan.
The TL, TSX, MDX, and to a lesser extent the RDX are fine sellers.
The RL needs work. Not just better sales, but a better car to give Acura a better image. But thats a different thread
I wasn't talking about sales of ALL Acura automobiles. I was talking about TSX sales. TSX sales have been strong. In 2006, 38,035 were sold. In 2007, 33,037 were sold. Either way, we're looking at ~3000 units a month. A E90 BMW 328i sells 3000 units a month. Like I said, the TSX SELLS WELL.
Acura's investment cost: almost nill considering the car is a Euro-Accord that is brought stateside.
Conclusion: a pretty damned good business, and one that doesn't need to be excessively tampered with. What would most companies do....redo the car over slightly, and give it a pump in sales 2-3 years down the road with a Type-S version.
The TSX is in a niche market, and yet it sells like hotcakes. Not to mention the TL sells like hotcakes in its own market. It outsold the 3 series for two years to become best selling luxury sedan in America, and now its the second best selling luxury sedan.
The TL, TSX, MDX, and to a lesser extent the RDX are fine sellers.
The RL needs work. Not just better sales, but a better car to give Acura a better image. But thats a different thread
I think you need to read what you wrote. You just showed that TSX sales are on the decline. Per Automotive News, the TSX was selling a bit over 2,000 units last month.
The 3 series sells close to 100K units in the US. That's 3 times the TSX.
Badge engineering doesn't work well, just look at Lincoln.
02-13-2008 | 10:03 PM
#1148
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 2
From: Lexington
Originally Posted by Maximized
I think you need to read what you wrote. You just showed that TSX sales are on the decline. Per Automotive News, the TSX was selling a bit over 2,000 units last month.
The 3 series sells close to 100K units in the US. That's 3 times the TSX.
Badge engineering doesn't work well, just look at Lincoln.
The 3 series sells close to 100K units in the US. That's 3 times the TSX.
Badge engineering doesn't work well, just look at Lincoln.
A TSX does not compete with ALL three series sales. It only competes with the most entry level of 3 series.
The TSX and the TL together attack the 3 series market. And sales of both these vehicles is ~100k units, just like the 3 series.
Again, the current TSX SELLS WELL. End of story. Whether this all new TSX sells well remains to be seen.
02-13-2008 | 10:32 PM
#1149
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,579
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Suburbs
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Any models sales start strong and then taper off. Its true of all most all models. Regardless of year. TSX sales when averaged over the life of the cycle, have average close to ~3000 units.
A TSX does not compete with ALL three series sales. It only competes with the most entry level of 3 series.
The TSX and the TL together attack the 3 series market. And sales of both these vehicles is ~100k units, just like the 3 series.
Again, the current TSX SELLS WELL. End of story. Whether this all new TSX sells well remains to be seen.
A TSX does not compete with ALL three series sales. It only competes with the most entry level of 3 series.
The TSX and the TL together attack the 3 series market. And sales of both these vehicles is ~100k units, just like the 3 series.
Again, the current TSX SELLS WELL. End of story. Whether this all new TSX sells well remains to be seen.
I think it's funny that you are comparing TWO different models to get a sum of the 3 series. That's a great comparison and also speaks volumes of where Acura stands against the competition!
02-14-2008 | 12:28 AM
#1150
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,494
Likes: 1,569
From: Maryland
Originally Posted by vishnus11
Any models sales start strong and then taper off. Its true of all most all models. Regardless of year. TSX sales when averaged over the life of the cycle, have average close to ~3000 units.
A TSX does not compete with ALL three series sales. It only competes with the most entry level of 3 series.
The TSX and the TL together attack the 3 series market. And sales of both these vehicles is ~100k units, just like the 3 series.
Again, the current TSX SELLS WELL. End of story. Whether this all new TSX sells well remains to be seen.
A TSX does not compete with ALL three series sales. It only competes with the most entry level of 3 series.
The TSX and the TL together attack the 3 series market. And sales of both these vehicles is ~100k units, just like the 3 series.
Again, the current TSX SELLS WELL. End of story. Whether this all new TSX sells well remains to be seen.
If you can afford the BMW, why would you get the TSX?
02-14-2008 | 12:33 AM
#1151
What Would Don Draper Do?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,223
Likes: 1
From: Houston
Originally Posted by charliemike
I really don't see how a $28k 4-cyl competes with a $35k 6-cyl though.
If you can afford the BMW, why would you get the TSX?
If you can afford the BMW, why would you get the TSX?
value was the main reason. just because you can afford a $40k car doesn't mean you're going to or should buy one.
look at eclipse23. he's been wanting an S5 but is shopping around for and test driving accords, altimas, camrys, etc.
others that i know prefer the TSX's interior in terms of layout and design, feel more comfortable with buying a honda product, didn't want to buy an expensive car because they'd rather save the money for a second car, etc.
02-14-2008 | 03:38 AM
#1152
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,391
Likes: 634
From: Alexandria, VA
Overall it doesn't mean much but the fact they're going to direct injection should be news - I assume this is one of the first DI NA Honda engines. I didn't see the details for the Euro Accord but it could be that it will still use regular FI. Add SHAWD and you got yourself a Honda version of an Audi. I also assume that the extra size will add extra weight, hence the reason for no mileage increase - DI usually helps to the tune of 10%?
The DI development is not news just because its DI, but combine that with the diesels Honda has been tinkering with and their idea of a Otto-Diesel engine might not be too far off. MB also is pursuing the idea - you'll get to a point where you basically can put just about anything in the tank and the engine will use it.
There seems to be many little things that are new but people just don't see them - like the extra roof trusses - maybe they figured out a way to cut down on the rattles. And the goodies available, like lane departure warning - it's nice to see that stuff like that is trickling down to lesser cars.
The DI development is not news just because its DI, but combine that with the diesels Honda has been tinkering with and their idea of a Otto-Diesel engine might not be too far off. MB also is pursuing the idea - you'll get to a point where you basically can put just about anything in the tank and the engine will use it.
There seems to be many little things that are new but people just don't see them - like the extra roof trusses - maybe they figured out a way to cut down on the rattles. And the goodies available, like lane departure warning - it's nice to see that stuff like that is trickling down to lesser cars.
02-14-2008 | 05:42 AM
#1153
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,796
Likes: 1,400
From: NC
Why
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
i know many people that have enough money to buy a 328/335 but chose the TSX instead. why?
The TSX has been a success for Acura, especially considering what an oddity it is. When it debuted, I think sales goals were only 15,000/year - which shows that even Acura was not too sure how well the public would take to it.
Despite all the complaints here, Acura really is trying. I like that there will be engine choices and even that they will debut them incrementally to keep customers interested but they really should offer more initially. For instance, why not debut the 4 cylinder model & a turbo/v6 version ... then next year the turbo diesel?
Acura will never cease to amaze w/ their decisions (good or bad) - which is probably why I like them.
02-14-2008 | 07:15 AM
#1155
Senior Moderator
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 47,710
Likes: 801
From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by biker
Overall it doesn't mean much but the fact they're going to direct injection should be news - I assume this is one of the first DI NA Honda engines. I didn't see the details for the Euro Accord but it could be that it will still use regular FI. Add SHAWD and you got yourself a Honda version of an Audi. I also assume that the extra size will add extra weight, hence the reason for no mileage increase - DI usually helps to the tune of 10%?
The DI development is not news just because its DI, but combine that with the diesels Honda has been tinkering with and their idea of a Otto-Diesel engine might not be too far off. MB also is pursuing the idea - you'll get to a point where you basically can put just about anything in the tank and the engine will use it.
There seems to be many little things that are new but people just don't see them - like the extra roof trusses - maybe they figured out a way to cut down on the rattles. And the goodies available, like lane departure warning - it's nice to see that stuff like that is trickling down to lesser cars.
The DI development is not news just because its DI, but combine that with the diesels Honda has been tinkering with and their idea of a Otto-Diesel engine might not be too far off. MB also is pursuing the idea - you'll get to a point where you basically can put just about anything in the tank and the engine will use it.
There seems to be many little things that are new but people just don't see them - like the extra roof trusses - maybe they figured out a way to cut down on the rattles. And the goodies available, like lane departure warning - it's nice to see that stuff like that is trickling down to lesser cars.
Biker, its Direct Ignition, not Direct Injection.
An all-aluminum DOHC i-VTEC® in-line 4-cylinder engine heralds a pair of firsts for the TSX model, including dual balance shafts and a direct ignition system.
02-14-2008 | 07:23 AM
#1156
Go Big Blue!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 5
From: Orlando, FLA
Originally Posted by dom
Biker, its Direct Ignition, not Direct Injection.
02-14-2008 | 08:12 AM
#1157
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 2
From: Lexington
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
Does anyone know what "direct ignition" means? I feel like I'm in a timewarp and Honda just announced they have found a way to replace the distributor cap and rotor. Is this some evolutionary change for the ignition system or are the marketing guys just babbling again. Ladies and Gentlemen, this years model also includes a hydromatic transmission!!!!
02-14-2008 | 08:53 AM
#1158
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,391
Likes: 634
From: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted by dom
Biker, its Direct Ignition, not Direct Injection.
Gotta read more carefully. The diesel is DI.Maybe Acura wants to imitate BMW in rolling out drivetrains in that BMW changes the platform then rolls out new engines later.
02-14-2008 | 11:02 AM
#1159
2009 Acura TSX Press Release Accidentally Hits Internet Before New York Auto Show
http://jalopnik.com/356230/2009-acur...to-show-unveil
The rapscalliions at VWVortex have let slip all the deets on the Acura's new "hotness" -- the 2009 TSX. You've already seen one teaser shot along with a teaser release, but now here's the whole shebang. We'll have to wait for sometime later on (when Wert's able to run the story on his first-drive he just finished up out West) to get the full spiel on the new pre-entry level luxury sports sedan from Honda's luxe badge. The full press release follows the jump.
All-New 2009 TSX to Debut at New York International Auto Show
The second-generation Acura TSX is designed to appeal to young professionals with its keen-edge styling, athletic performance and advanced electronic features
TORRANCE, Calif., U.S.A., February 11, 2008- Designed and engineered to reaffirm its place as a desirable and affordable entry point for entry-premium buyers, the all-new second-generation 2009 TSX is larger, more agile, more performance minded and even "more Acura" than ever before. Carefully crafted to honor the original TSX's vision as a world-class sports sedan, the new TSX has significantly evolved to offer more comfort, convenience, driving performance and safety. It does so with expanded luxury and electronic features, a wider stance for more agile performance, and advanced safety systems.
The 2009 TSX is expected to appeal to current TSX owners, young professionals and other image seekers who will appreciate its innovative styling, technical allure and total performance - while also valuing the outstanding customer treatment that owners have come to enjoy at Acura dealerships. Extremely brand conscious and eclectic in their tastes, buyers will find the TSX as satisfying for driving colleagues to lunch as it is for weekend snowboarding trips or vacation travel.
Powertrain
An all-aluminum DOHC i-VTEC® in-line 4-cylinder engine heralds a pair of firsts for the TSX model, including dual balance shafts and a direct ignition system. Along with improved performance, it is also cleaner as it now meeting the EPA's aggressive Tier 2-Bin 5 and CARB LEV II Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standards for the first time in TSX history.
Displacing 2.4-liters and producing 201 hp and 172 lb-ft of torque (with manual transmission), the new in-line 4-cylinder engine produces its useable power across a much wider rpm range, while five percent more torque further strengthens the engine's pulling power at middle rpm levels. This allows the 2009 TSX to be more responsive off the line and out of corners, and stronger in the middle of the rpm range where the engine operates most of the time.
This newfound performance and flexibility is due in part to a higher compression ratio, revised valve timing, and improved intake and exhaust gas flow. Further credit goes to the TSX engine's i-VTEC® "intelligent" valve control system, which provides the power characteristics of a V-6 without sacrificing the light weight or fuel efficiency of an in-line four. Likewise, a new rear-mounted exhaust manifold layout, a close-coupled catalytic converter design, and a Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) system substantially reduce emissions levels. Estimated fuel mileage is 21/30/24 mpg* (city/highway/combined, 5 AT) and 20/28/23 mpg* (city/highway/combined, 6 MT).
Two transmissions are available, both as standard equipment - a 6-speed close- ratio manual with new performance-oriented ratios for Second through Sixth gears, and a Sequential SportShift 5-speed automatic with a new lock-up torque converter assembly. The manual transmission features a short-throw shifter with a precise, light action that makes it highly rewarding to use, while the Sequential SportShift automatic permits fully automatic operation with intelligent features such as Grade Logic Control and Shift Hold Control, which make driving the TSX on hilly or winding roads more enjoyable. If the driver desires, the automatic transmission can also be operated manually via new steering-wheel mounted F1®-style paddle shifters.
Body and Chassis
The 2009 TSX body structure includes two firsts for the Acura division, including a closed-channel cross-braced roof structure and inside frame rails. Along with a stronger rear bulkhead, the closed-channel cross-braced roof structure yields a more rigid and vibration-resistant structure. The first use of inside frame rails for any Acura model help tailor the aerodynamics underneath the car for improved fuel economy, lower emissions and reduced noise. In addition, new A-, B- and C-pillar separators improve the TSX's quietness over rough roads and at high speed. Slippery aerodynamics also helps fuel economy as well as high-speed stability - all while lowering emissions.
In addition to its 3.0-inch greater width and 2.6-inch wider track, the 2009 TSX has a 1.3-inch longer wheelbase and 2.4 inches more overall length. These dimensions combine to provide greater interior roominess, more agile handling and improved ride quality. Another first for Acura are the TSX's new dual-mode suspension dampers, which provide superior suspension damping characteristics at both lower and higher damper speeds. Using a unique deflector plate stack, the new dampers adjust compression damping characteristics to suit the vehicle speed, cornering forces and road surface. In creating the second-generation TSX body design, Acura designers sought to retain the crisp, dynamic design of the original and enhance it by widening the body overall and adding more muscular and distinctive cues to create a keen-edged sports sedan. Their key design goal was to create an aerodynamic design that evokes both emotion and tension with a decisively sporty flair.
Outward visibility is improved with a slimmer A-pillar design, while an auto up/down front passenger window adds convenience and a reverse-linked passenger-side door mirror tilts down to help improve safety while parallel parking. The new TSX also has a wider trunk opening and a lower trunk lift-over height for more convenient loading.
Exterior/Interior
Functionality and refinement converge with luxury and style in the interior of the 2009 Acura TSX. Featuring a blend of sweeping, contemporary shapes, a high level of standard comfort and convenience features, widespread use of premium materials and an available Technology Package, this 5-passenger sports sedan offers the upscale modern interior that customers have come to expect from Acura.
From the precision-crafted metal door sills to the satin-metal finish accents, from new leather-covered seats to the steering-wheel mounted controls, and from the premium 7-speaker sound system to the dual-zone automatic climate control, the TSX represents a merge of intelligent design and innovation. For example, Bluetooth® connectivity is standard and includes a HandsFreeLink® cellular telephone interface that makes communications easier and safer while en route.
Typical of Acura, the TSX offers an exceptional level of standard equipment. Included are a standard power passenger seat, a new folding key with remote entry, new automatic headlight activation, a premium 7-speaker sound system with CD, AM/FM/XM®, Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink® , and USB port music interface. A HomeLink® remote control system is also standard.
Adding to the already impressive list of TSX standard equipment is the available Technology Package, which bristles with leading-edge electronics that make driving much more efficient and enjoyable. These include an Acura Navigation System with Voice RecognitionTM, AcuraLink® Real-time traffic, AcuraLink® weather, and the highly useful AcuraLink® Satellite Communication System. The navigation system also features Real-time trafficTM covering 76 major metropolitan markets, and offers Traffic Rerouting with dynamic route guidance to help navigate around slow-downs. For 2009, the TSX receives a dash-mounted electronic compass for added directional information while driving.
Included in the Technology Package is a premium sound system tuned by legendary sound engineer Elliot Scheiner. This 10-speaker Acura/ELSTM Premium Surround Sound System with DVD-Audio includes a new Note function for XM® Radio that makes it easy to identify songs to recall at a later date. With push of a button, the Note function can capture 10 seconds of up to 30 songs, along with noting text indicating song title, artist name, and XM® channel.
Safety
The 2009 Acura TSX leads the way in safety with its new Advanced Compatibility EngineeringTM (ACETM) body structure. Engineered into the TSX model for the first time, ACETM improves the dispersal of frontal crash energy through the use of load-bearing frame structures that better match the TSX with other vehicles of different sizes and with different bumper heights. Simply put, ACETM helps maximize the effectiveness of the TSX's front crumple zones, better dispersing crash forces before they reach the passenger compartment.
A broad range of passive safety features likewise contributes to occupant safety, including six airbags (dual-stage, dual-threshold front airbags, new dual-chamber front seat side airbags, and side curtain airbags for outboard seating positions). Three-point seatbelts and head restraints are provided in all seating positions, and front seatbelt load limiters with an integrated automatic tensioning system further protect the TSX driver and front passenger. A new Active Headrest Restrain System is used for the first time on the TSX, while the rear seat features a Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) system that allows for the easy and secure affixing of up to two child seats. Exterior features designed to further improve safety include daytime running lights (DRL), pedestrian-injury mitigation features such as a deformable hood, hood hinges and windshield-wiper pivots, and a 5-mph front bumper and 2.5-mph rear bumper. The 2009 Acura TSX is expected to achieve the highest ratings in both government (NHTSA)** and independent (IIHS) crash testing - including garnering IIHS's TOP SAFETY PICK.
Finally, the 2009 Acura TSX is covered by a comprehensive 4-year/50,000 mile bumper-to-bumper limited warranty and a 6-year/70,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. Additional benefits of ownership include Acura Total Luxury Care® (TLC®) that provides free 24-hour roadside assistance, concierge service and trip routing.
All-New 2009 TSX to Debut at New York International Auto Show
The second-generation Acura TSX is designed to appeal to young professionals with its keen-edge styling, athletic performance and advanced electronic features
TORRANCE, Calif., U.S.A., February 11, 2008- Designed and engineered to reaffirm its place as a desirable and affordable entry point for entry-premium buyers, the all-new second-generation 2009 TSX is larger, more agile, more performance minded and even "more Acura" than ever before. Carefully crafted to honor the original TSX's vision as a world-class sports sedan, the new TSX has significantly evolved to offer more comfort, convenience, driving performance and safety. It does so with expanded luxury and electronic features, a wider stance for more agile performance, and advanced safety systems.
The 2009 TSX is expected to appeal to current TSX owners, young professionals and other image seekers who will appreciate its innovative styling, technical allure and total performance - while also valuing the outstanding customer treatment that owners have come to enjoy at Acura dealerships. Extremely brand conscious and eclectic in their tastes, buyers will find the TSX as satisfying for driving colleagues to lunch as it is for weekend snowboarding trips or vacation travel.
Powertrain
An all-aluminum DOHC i-VTEC® in-line 4-cylinder engine heralds a pair of firsts for the TSX model, including dual balance shafts and a direct ignition system. Along with improved performance, it is also cleaner as it now meeting the EPA's aggressive Tier 2-Bin 5 and CARB LEV II Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standards for the first time in TSX history.
Displacing 2.4-liters and producing 201 hp and 172 lb-ft of torque (with manual transmission), the new in-line 4-cylinder engine produces its useable power across a much wider rpm range, while five percent more torque further strengthens the engine's pulling power at middle rpm levels. This allows the 2009 TSX to be more responsive off the line and out of corners, and stronger in the middle of the rpm range where the engine operates most of the time.
This newfound performance and flexibility is due in part to a higher compression ratio, revised valve timing, and improved intake and exhaust gas flow. Further credit goes to the TSX engine's i-VTEC® "intelligent" valve control system, which provides the power characteristics of a V-6 without sacrificing the light weight or fuel efficiency of an in-line four. Likewise, a new rear-mounted exhaust manifold layout, a close-coupled catalytic converter design, and a Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) system substantially reduce emissions levels. Estimated fuel mileage is 21/30/24 mpg* (city/highway/combined, 5 AT) and 20/28/23 mpg* (city/highway/combined, 6 MT).
Two transmissions are available, both as standard equipment - a 6-speed close- ratio manual with new performance-oriented ratios for Second through Sixth gears, and a Sequential SportShift 5-speed automatic with a new lock-up torque converter assembly. The manual transmission features a short-throw shifter with a precise, light action that makes it highly rewarding to use, while the Sequential SportShift automatic permits fully automatic operation with intelligent features such as Grade Logic Control and Shift Hold Control, which make driving the TSX on hilly or winding roads more enjoyable. If the driver desires, the automatic transmission can also be operated manually via new steering-wheel mounted F1®-style paddle shifters.
Body and Chassis
The 2009 TSX body structure includes two firsts for the Acura division, including a closed-channel cross-braced roof structure and inside frame rails. Along with a stronger rear bulkhead, the closed-channel cross-braced roof structure yields a more rigid and vibration-resistant structure. The first use of inside frame rails for any Acura model help tailor the aerodynamics underneath the car for improved fuel economy, lower emissions and reduced noise. In addition, new A-, B- and C-pillar separators improve the TSX's quietness over rough roads and at high speed. Slippery aerodynamics also helps fuel economy as well as high-speed stability - all while lowering emissions.
In addition to its 3.0-inch greater width and 2.6-inch wider track, the 2009 TSX has a 1.3-inch longer wheelbase and 2.4 inches more overall length. These dimensions combine to provide greater interior roominess, more agile handling and improved ride quality. Another first for Acura are the TSX's new dual-mode suspension dampers, which provide superior suspension damping characteristics at both lower and higher damper speeds. Using a unique deflector plate stack, the new dampers adjust compression damping characteristics to suit the vehicle speed, cornering forces and road surface. In creating the second-generation TSX body design, Acura designers sought to retain the crisp, dynamic design of the original and enhance it by widening the body overall and adding more muscular and distinctive cues to create a keen-edged sports sedan. Their key design goal was to create an aerodynamic design that evokes both emotion and tension with a decisively sporty flair.
Outward visibility is improved with a slimmer A-pillar design, while an auto up/down front passenger window adds convenience and a reverse-linked passenger-side door mirror tilts down to help improve safety while parallel parking. The new TSX also has a wider trunk opening and a lower trunk lift-over height for more convenient loading.
Exterior/Interior
Functionality and refinement converge with luxury and style in the interior of the 2009 Acura TSX. Featuring a blend of sweeping, contemporary shapes, a high level of standard comfort and convenience features, widespread use of premium materials and an available Technology Package, this 5-passenger sports sedan offers the upscale modern interior that customers have come to expect from Acura.
From the precision-crafted metal door sills to the satin-metal finish accents, from new leather-covered seats to the steering-wheel mounted controls, and from the premium 7-speaker sound system to the dual-zone automatic climate control, the TSX represents a merge of intelligent design and innovation. For example, Bluetooth® connectivity is standard and includes a HandsFreeLink® cellular telephone interface that makes communications easier and safer while en route.
Typical of Acura, the TSX offers an exceptional level of standard equipment. Included are a standard power passenger seat, a new folding key with remote entry, new automatic headlight activation, a premium 7-speaker sound system with CD, AM/FM/XM®, Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink® , and USB port music interface. A HomeLink® remote control system is also standard.
Adding to the already impressive list of TSX standard equipment is the available Technology Package, which bristles with leading-edge electronics that make driving much more efficient and enjoyable. These include an Acura Navigation System with Voice RecognitionTM, AcuraLink® Real-time traffic, AcuraLink® weather, and the highly useful AcuraLink® Satellite Communication System. The navigation system also features Real-time trafficTM covering 76 major metropolitan markets, and offers Traffic Rerouting with dynamic route guidance to help navigate around slow-downs. For 2009, the TSX receives a dash-mounted electronic compass for added directional information while driving.
Included in the Technology Package is a premium sound system tuned by legendary sound engineer Elliot Scheiner. This 10-speaker Acura/ELSTM Premium Surround Sound System with DVD-Audio includes a new Note function for XM® Radio that makes it easy to identify songs to recall at a later date. With push of a button, the Note function can capture 10 seconds of up to 30 songs, along with noting text indicating song title, artist name, and XM® channel.
Safety
The 2009 Acura TSX leads the way in safety with its new Advanced Compatibility EngineeringTM (ACETM) body structure. Engineered into the TSX model for the first time, ACETM improves the dispersal of frontal crash energy through the use of load-bearing frame structures that better match the TSX with other vehicles of different sizes and with different bumper heights. Simply put, ACETM helps maximize the effectiveness of the TSX's front crumple zones, better dispersing crash forces before they reach the passenger compartment.
A broad range of passive safety features likewise contributes to occupant safety, including six airbags (dual-stage, dual-threshold front airbags, new dual-chamber front seat side airbags, and side curtain airbags for outboard seating positions). Three-point seatbelts and head restraints are provided in all seating positions, and front seatbelt load limiters with an integrated automatic tensioning system further protect the TSX driver and front passenger. A new Active Headrest Restrain System is used for the first time on the TSX, while the rear seat features a Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) system that allows for the easy and secure affixing of up to two child seats. Exterior features designed to further improve safety include daytime running lights (DRL), pedestrian-injury mitigation features such as a deformable hood, hood hinges and windshield-wiper pivots, and a 5-mph front bumper and 2.5-mph rear bumper. The 2009 Acura TSX is expected to achieve the highest ratings in both government (NHTSA)** and independent (IIHS) crash testing - including garnering IIHS's TOP SAFETY PICK.
Finally, the 2009 Acura TSX is covered by a comprehensive 4-year/50,000 mile bumper-to-bumper limited warranty and a 6-year/70,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. Additional benefits of ownership include Acura Total Luxury Care® (TLC®) that provides free 24-hour roadside assistance, concierge service and trip routing.
