Acura: TLX News
04-14-2014, 07:45 PM
#8121
Itz JDM y0!
I actually like the way the ILX looks, especially when modded. The addition of a future AWD model is definitely a step in the right direction IMO. Hopefully they add a turbo into that K24 along with it.
ly. 
More, definitely. I was just saying IMO it makes sense for them to have a model of TLX that aims for the bottom of the market (320i).
Shot in the dark here, but if the car they built was $500 more but had 215hp and 190 lb-ft of torque, would you be more, or less, inclined to be interested in it?Last edited by VR1; 04-14-2014 at 07:47 PM.
04-14-2014, 08:25 PM
#8122
Not when they are trying to re-establish brand equity. The focus needs to be on broadest part of the market, not the bottom or the top. Aiming for the bottom of the market just locks you in there. It is easier to move downmarket with established brand equity rather than trying to move upmarket.
04-15-2014, 08:51 AM
#8123
Some dude
Underwhelming power numbers from Acura!? I'm Shocked.
04-15-2014, 10:34 AM
#8125
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Maybe they will pipe in engine sound. Seems to be a trend.
04-15-2014, 10:36 AM
#8126
AZ Community Team
I can only assume that he's adjusting for inflation in his argument. It is not appropriate to take dollar for dollar with the market as it was, and as it is.
Considering that there has been about 11.5% inflation in the market from 2008 (I'll use the end of the 3G life cycle for arguments sake), and you take the 35k price of the TLX (as you quoted), and adjust DOWN for current inflation,
The BASE TLX (at current market market rate adjusted for inflation to 2008), would sit around. 31.4K
so although you're getting "less" car, you're paying "less" (corrected for the market).
Unless I did this all wrong, and I've confused myself in the process
Considering that there has been about 11.5% inflation in the market from 2008 (I'll use the end of the 3G life cycle for arguments sake), and you take the 35k price of the TLX (as you quoted), and adjust DOWN for current inflation,
The BASE TLX (at current market market rate adjusted for inflation to 2008), would sit around. 31.4K
so although you're getting "less" car, you're paying "less" (corrected for the market).
Unless I did this all wrong, and I've confused myself in the process
Nope you're not confused, I checked CPI from bls.gov and found from 2005 (IIRC a base 3G TL was $32650) would be $39503 today for 20.9% inflation (2.1 % annual).
04-15-2014, 10:41 AM
#8127
AZ Community Team
04-15-2014, 11:01 AM
#8128
AZ Community Team
Didn't even know they brought back the 320i, I looked it up and what was amusing is it's 2L turbo 4 is 180HP and 200ftlb.
Looking at having a range for those values, it's probably ECU limited, else Paul Rosche would have a stroke if a BMW 2L turbo 4 only produced 180HP
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Last edited by Legend2TL; 04-15-2014 at 11:15 AM.
04-15-2014, 11:02 AM
#8129
AZ Community Team
04-15-2014, 11:50 AM
#8130
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like i said earlier, all other competitors are still starting at low to mid $30s. Acura still has more standard features like back in 2006-2008 than its competitors and starting price is still about the same.
Not much has changed. you can apply the inflation to its competitors so in a way they are all "value buys now" The difference is other brand's replacement are all significantly better than the car they had in 2006-2008. Maybe with the exception of the new C class. Shit is ugly but at least it has better engine, interior and pretty much everything else. I can't say the same about 3G TL and TLX.
Not much has changed. you can apply the inflation to its competitors so in a way they are all "value buys now" The difference is other brand's replacement are all significantly better than the car they had in 2006-2008. Maybe with the exception of the new C class. Shit is ugly but at least it has better engine, interior and pretty much everything else. I can't say the same about 3G TL and TLX.
With that said, I don't think there's a pricing schedule yet. I guess we will see soon enough.
Why aim at the bottom of the market instead of where they need to focus, which is the A4, upcoming C300, 328i, and CTS 2.0T? Aiming for the bottom of the market begets a product that is towards the bottom of the market. And I suspect that when you actually look at sales numbers, most people skip the CTS 2.5 and 320i for the better value that the CTS 2.0T and 328i provide.
Not when they are trying to re-establish brand equity. The focus needs to be on broadest part of the market, not the bottom or the top. Aiming for the bottom of the market just locks you in there. It is easier to move downmarket with established brand equity rather than trying to move upmarket.
1.) TLX is a replacement for both TL and TSX. The TLX 2.4L is a direct replacement of the quite popular TSX.
2.) Price. We've all seen how people got startled by the starting price of RLX. By having a lower spec model, the price entry point can be lowered.
3.) TLX 2.0T is not quite ready. I can see a TLX 2.0T with 250hp will come out within a couple years.
I agree, it also serves as a Acura replacement for the 4 cylinder TSX owners who want to replace them with a comparable model.
Didn't even know they brought back the 320i, I looked it up and what was amusing is it's 2L turbo 4 is 180HP and 200ftlb.
Looking at having a range for those values, it's probably ECU limited, else Paul Rosche would have a stroke if a BMW 2L turbo 4 only produced 180HP
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Didn't even know they brought back the 320i, I looked it up and what was amusing is it's 2L turbo 4 is 180HP and 200ftlb.
Looking at having a range for those values, it's probably ECU limited, else Paul Rosche would have a stroke if a BMW 2L turbo 4 only produced 180HP
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Still the 320i is decently quick for what it is.
04-15-2014, 12:06 PM
#8131
AZ Community Team
04-15-2014, 01:08 PM
#8132
I was really surprised that Cadillac offered the 2.5L, 202 hp I-4 in the ATS as a standard engine. It is around 3,300 lbs, which is even lighter than the TSX at ~3,400.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now
it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now
it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.
04-15-2014, 01:21 PM
#8133
I can see a few reasons.
1.) TLX is a replacement for both TL and TSX. The TLX 2.4L is a direct replacement of the quite popular TSX.
2.) Price. We've all seen how people got startled by the starting price of RLX. By having a lower spec model, the price entry point can be lowered.
3.) TLX 2.0T is not quite ready. I can see a TLX 2.0T with 250hp will come out within a couple years.
1.) TLX is a replacement for both TL and TSX. The TLX 2.4L is a direct replacement of the quite popular TSX.
2.) Price. We've all seen how people got startled by the starting price of RLX. By having a lower spec model, the price entry point can be lowered.
3.) TLX 2.0T is not quite ready. I can see a TLX 2.0T with 250hp will come out within a couple years.
As for the price, those looking to replace a TSX would, theoretically, end up in the ILX for its lower price or the TLX for its bigger size. Odds are that the TLX has a healthier margin on it than the ILX so why not give TSX owners a compelling reasons to step up to the TLX instead of down to the ILX?
And I certainly hope you are right about a turbo model. Acura needs it, badly.
04-15-2014, 01:32 PM
#8134
Itz JDM y0!
the sound is one of the main reasons why I picked the TSX over the E90 328i & CPO A4/C250
Last edited by VR1; 04-15-2014 at 01:35 PM.
04-15-2014, 01:43 PM
#8135
AZ Community Team
I was really surprised that Cadillac offered the 2.5L, 202 hp I-4 in the ATS as a standard engine. It is around 3,300 lbs, which is even lighter than the TSX at ~3,400.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now
it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.
04-15-2014, 05:26 PM
#8137
You'll Never Walk Alone
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I was really surprised that Cadillac offered the 2.5L, 202 hp I-4 in the ATS as a standard engine. It is around 3,300 lbs, which is even lighter than the TSX at ~3,400.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.
Still, the ATS starts at around $33k and it comes with that underwhelming lump. Acura isn't the only one doing this... at least there are engine options now
it's just that me and many others feel like they need something like a turbo V6 or a V8 (that word again) to expand their engine lineup beyond just one four cylinder and one V6 (or two nearly identical ones), basically.Having owned 3 TSXs, I can honestly say I am not the least bit amused by the numbers. I realize that the I4 TLX will be a TSX replacement, but that doesn't mean they had to be so stingy with the performance increase. Considering that the current TSX has had the same 201-hp rating since its introduction as a 2009 model, I hardly think a 5-7% power increase is asking for too much.
As for the price, those looking to replace a TSX would, theoretically, end up in the ILX for its lower price or the TLX for its bigger size. Odds are that the TLX has a healthier margin on it than the ILX so why not give TSX owners a compelling reasons to step up to the TLX instead of down to the ILX?
And I certainly hope you are right about a turbo model. Acura needs it, badly.
As for the price, those looking to replace a TSX would, theoretically, end up in the ILX for its lower price or the TLX for its bigger size. Odds are that the TLX has a healthier margin on it than the ILX so why not give TSX owners a compelling reasons to step up to the TLX instead of down to the ILX?
And I certainly hope you are right about a turbo model. Acura needs it, badly.
Obviously, we will need to wait for some road tests to see.
04-15-2014, 05:32 PM
#8138
Senior Moderator
Officially disappointed in the TLX given engine specs. That is all. 
04-15-2014, 05:36 PM
#8139
Moderator
04-15-2014, 05:38 PM
#8140
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Damn.
http://www.carscoops.com/2014/04/201...r-details.html
http://www.carscoops.com/2014/04/201...r-details.html
Acura reportedly confirmed output numbers for the base 2.4-liter inline four at 206hp and 182 lb-ft, and the top-spec 3.5-liter V6 at 290hp and 267 lb-ft of peak torque, with the former paired to an 8-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox with torque converter and the latter to a 9-speed auto.
Two engines:
3.5L V6 with specs of 290 horsepower and 267 lb-ft. 9-speed automatic transmission is paired with this engine. Acura says that regular shifts will occur at a rate 25% faster than the TL, and paddle shift inputs will be realized up to five times faster than the TL. Regarding fuel economy, both the FWD and AWD models will see an increase of 5 mpg highway over the TL. For city fuel economy ratings, the FWD is up 1 mpg and the AWD model is up 3 mpg over the TL. The SH-AWD system weighs 75% of the weight of the TL's system, and because it's smaller, Acura engineers were able to add an under storage space in the trunk (like the RLX). The TLX V6 is about 0.5 seconds faster than the TL in the 0-60mph race.
2.4L inline-four cylinder with 206 horsepower and 182 lb-ft. This powertrain features an 8-speed torque converter automatic (the new ZF box?). Expect fuel economy to increase by 2 mpg in the city and by 4 mpg on the highway
More info:
Internally, Acura is targeting a sales goal of 45,000 TLX models per year. I am confident this model will make targets -- it's quite impressive in person.
The TLX has about the same wheelbase length as the TL, but the overhangs are 4 inches shorter.
Auto start-stop is standard (if it's like the BMW system, I'm turning it off every single time I get in)
There's a new sport mode feature called Integrated Dynamic System (IDS) with an optional Sport Plus mode. It changes throttle response and steering feel. It also has an economy mode for when you feel like driving like a grandma.
Siri Eyes Free is standard. I'm really excited for this!
Electronic parking brake
Rear seats fold down for cargo
TLX FWD model is 150 lbs lighter than the TL FWD!
Two engines:
3.5L V6 with specs of 290 horsepower and 267 lb-ft. 9-speed automatic transmission is paired with this engine. Acura says that regular shifts will occur at a rate 25% faster than the TL, and paddle shift inputs will be realized up to five times faster than the TL. Regarding fuel economy, both the FWD and AWD models will see an increase of 5 mpg highway over the TL. For city fuel economy ratings, the FWD is up 1 mpg and the AWD model is up 3 mpg over the TL. The SH-AWD system weighs 75% of the weight of the TL's system, and because it's smaller, Acura engineers were able to add an under storage space in the trunk (like the RLX). The TLX V6 is about 0.5 seconds faster than the TL in the 0-60mph race.
2.4L inline-four cylinder with 206 horsepower and 182 lb-ft. This powertrain features an 8-speed torque converter automatic (the new ZF box?). Expect fuel economy to increase by 2 mpg in the city and by 4 mpg on the highway
More info:
Internally, Acura is targeting a sales goal of 45,000 TLX models per year. I am confident this model will make targets -- it's quite impressive in person.
The TLX has about the same wheelbase length as the TL, but the overhangs are 4 inches shorter.
Auto start-stop is standard (if it's like the BMW system, I'm turning it off every single time I get in)
There's a new sport mode feature called Integrated Dynamic System (IDS) with an optional Sport Plus mode. It changes throttle response and steering feel. It also has an economy mode for when you feel like driving like a grandma.
Siri Eyes Free is standard. I'm really excited for this!
Electronic parking brake
Rear seats fold down for cargo
TLX FWD model is 150 lbs lighter than the TL FWD!
04-15-2014, 06:31 PM
#8141
Against 3G, it has less power but cost the same
Against competitors, it is likely to be cheaper but it also has less.
Against competitors, it is likely to be cheaper but it also has less.
infact 3G TL technically the most failed design. the widest turning circle in all classes, 189 inch long but not very spacious, too slow for 260 bhp. aerodnamics outdated, too noisy.
Value = same or better product at the cheaper price (Hyundai)
If you offer less everything for cheaper price, that is just CHEAPER, not value. (Acura)
If you offer less everything for cheaper price, that is just CHEAPER, not value. (Acura)
04-15-2014, 06:44 PM
#8142
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Adding to the check list
- sound insulation
- turning radius
- aerodnamics
- NVH level
- sound insulation
- turning radius
- aerodnamics
- NVH level
04-15-2014, 07:45 PM
#8144
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
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00TL-P3.2 (04-16-2014)
04-15-2014, 07:59 PM
#8145
Senior Moderator
04-15-2014, 09:08 PM
#8147
there is nothing in 3G TL that surpass competition.
it was inferior to IS350/G35 in performance. There is little doubt that TLX V6 will be faster than IS350/Q50 and TLX 4 cylinder will be faster than IS250 with superior fuel economic.
it has PAWS and SH-AWD. DI engines. superior real driving performance. much thicker glass. wind and wheel noise completely hushed up.
3G TL is complete junk compared to TLX. infact when you consider time value of money $35k TL in 2008 is a lot worse than $35k TLX in 2014.
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VR1 (04-16-2014)
04-15-2014, 09:17 PM
#8148
Senior Moderator
^
04-15-2014, 09:19 PM
#8149
Senior Moderator
With the abysmal numbers, lets hope this is a sign that there may be a performance model coming down the pipeline with more hp. 
04-15-2014, 09:32 PM
#8150
Moderator
260 with ancient transmission will barely match 208 bhp TLX in performance but will be inferior in fuel economic.
TLX is superior safety, sound insulation and much more spacious, tighter turning radius.
infact 3G TL technically the most failed design. the widest turning circle in all classes, 189 inch long but not very spacious, too slow for 260 bhp. aerodnamics outdated, too noisy.
have you looked RLX NVH levels and with so called Hyundai value products.
TLX is superior safety, sound insulation and much more spacious, tighter turning radius.
infact 3G TL technically the most failed design. the widest turning circle in all classes, 189 inch long but not very spacious, too slow for 260 bhp. aerodnamics outdated, too noisy.
have you looked RLX NVH levels and with so called Hyundai value products.
I said technically. even technically deficient cars like Camry/ES350 and Corrolla also sells.
there is nothing in 3G TL that surpass competition.
it was inferior to IS350/G35 in performance. There is little doubt that TLX V6 will be faster than IS350/Q50 and TLX 4 cylinder will be faster than IS250 with superior fuel economic.
it has PAWS and SH-AWD. DI engines. superior real driving performance. much thicker glass. wind and wheel noise completely hushed up.
3G TL is complete junk compared to TLX. infact when you consider time value of money $35k TL in 2008 is a lot worse than $35k TLX in 2014.
there is nothing in 3G TL that surpass competition.
it was inferior to IS350/G35 in performance. There is little doubt that TLX V6 will be faster than IS350/Q50 and TLX 4 cylinder will be faster than IS250 with superior fuel economic.
it has PAWS and SH-AWD. DI engines. superior real driving performance. much thicker glass. wind and wheel noise completely hushed up.
3G TL is complete junk compared to TLX. infact when you consider time value of money $35k TL in 2008 is a lot worse than $35k TLX in 2014.
04-15-2014, 10:39 PM
#8151
It's not even worth it to try and make you understand how idiotic you sound.
04-15-2014, 10:44 PM
#8152
Moderator
You, sir, sound like a complete buffoon. You're really comparing cars from 2 different generations (7years difference) in equivalence? Do you not know how fast things change even in the span of 1 year?
It's not even worth it to try and make you understand how idiotic you sound.
It's not even worth it to try and make you understand how idiotic you sound.
You'll also find that he predicted the TLX-AWD would beat the F10 M5 in a 0-60 comparison.
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ttribe (04-15-2014)
04-15-2014, 10:53 PM
#8154
Moderator
04-15-2014, 11:06 PM
#8155
Midnight Marauder
Search his posts...he's been posting this nonsense for a couple of years now. You'll find that what matters most are - proper A/C vent placement, all-season tires, aerodynamic mirrors, and now turning radius, NVH, and sound insulation entered his list of critical comparables.
You'll also find that he predicted the TLX-AWD would beat the F10 M5 in a 0-60 comparison.
You'll also find that he predicted the TLX-AWD would beat the F10 M5 in a 0-60 comparison.
04-16-2014, 02:01 AM
#8156
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I said technically. even technically deficient cars like Camry/ES350 and Corrolla also sells.
there is nothing in 3G TL that surpass competition.
it was inferior to IS350/G35 in performance. There is little doubt that TLX V6 will be faster than IS350/Q50 and TLX 4 cylinder will be faster than IS250 with superior fuel economic.
it has PAWS and SH-AWD. DI engines. superior real driving performance. much thicker glass. wind and wheel noise completely hushed up.
3G TL is complete junk compared to TLX. infact when you consider time value of money $35k TL in 2008 is a lot worse than $35k TLX in 2014.
there is nothing in 3G TL that surpass competition.
it was inferior to IS350/G35 in performance. There is little doubt that TLX V6 will be faster than IS350/Q50 and TLX 4 cylinder will be faster than IS250 with superior fuel economic.
it has PAWS and SH-AWD. DI engines. superior real driving performance. much thicker glass. wind and wheel noise completely hushed up.
3G TL is complete junk compared to TLX. infact when you consider time value of money $35k TL in 2008 is a lot worse than $35k TLX in 2014.
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jwong77 (04-16-2014)
04-16-2014, 05:11 AM
#8157
Senior Moderator
04-16-2014, 07:40 AM
#8159
Race Director
04-16-2014, 08:23 AM
#8160
Some dude
lol, I like how you ignore the top tier cars in the class (not including the "performance models") that the V6 TLX is going to compete with: IS 350 306 hp, 335i 300 hp, ATS 3.6L V6 321 hp, C350 302 hp, Q50 328 hp