Jackygor

I am waiting when Acura comes out and say "V8? Jk guys, LOL"

NightHawk CL9

April 1st...

Moog-Type-S

^^ Zing!

Costco

Um, no. We've been asking for RWD for years, not some pseudo RWD that only acts like RWD in a straight line and pretty much becomes a front driver when there's slip.

I've always asked for a balls-out RWD that you can kick the tail out when desired and a powerful V8 and I just don't see it happening. I didn't complain about gas prices (and I never have, on this forum, any other forum, OR in real life) so I don't see why you quoted me.

VTEC Racer

I still don't see anything that says RWD. I see plenty of RWD-Biased SH-AWD, but still nothing that says RWD alone. RWD is a different thing from RWD-Biased SH-AWD. It is still not solely 100% RWD.

Costco

Sounds like a rear-bias AWD to me. If I wanted that I'd just go and get an Evo that will pretty much blow the doors off of anything Acura can come up with, for probably a lower price and a much higher fun factor.

Jackygor

Actually, if the SH-AWD going to the 2010 RL can do the same thing as the Evo X; it is pretty much a RWD biased AWD car, even though it is FWD based AWD.

yohan81718

eh.. people don't cross-shop evo vs RL

Costco

Good point.

It seems like people don't cross shop the RL at all though. If they don't give a crap about SH-AWD or even know what it is, why would they care about 'rear-bias' SH-AWD, which they also probably have no idea about?

And by 'they' I mean the majority of consumers out there, not just the RL owners on this site.

GreenMonster

I think that Hyundai is forcing Acura's hand... Acura is going to have to do something to counter.

How can a non-luxury brand like Hyundai come out with a RWD V8 before an alleged luxury brand like Acura ?? How does that make Acura look ??

Seems to me that the Koreans are actually the ones making the Acura corporate decisions now. Acura has to leak info like this to save face...

Acura HAS to do something to face this new competition. Staying a step or 2 behind BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti, is one thing, but falling behind Hyundai is disgraceful... the term "hari kari" comes to mind...

VTEC Racer

That is exactly the point I am trying to get across. Seems like a lot of people are mistaking this for an actual RWD layout. It is not. Yes it will have a chassis designed for RWD but it does not say that it WILL be RWD, just RWD-Biased SH-AWD. Think of Infiniti G35 AWD, M35/45 AWD, FX35/45 AWD and EX35 AWD when you think of rear-biased SH-AWD. All those cars have a RWD chassis but with a RWD-biased AWD system. Am I making any sense?

The title of this thread is misleading and will only set people up for even more disappointment with Acura when the 3rd gen RL is released. This is how rumors get started an misinterpreted which in turn creates a lot of anger towards Acura and Honda when the truth actually comes out.

Jackygor

It is a very bad position for Acura to be in when people give Hyundai more props.

Maybe one day Acura will send a representative to Acurazine and hear us out... I guess when that day comes, we will also get our V8 RWD RL

Edward'TLS

RWD or RWD-biased SH-AWD : doesn't matter. When the V8 RL has 420hp, AWD won't bog the car down like the lame 300hp V6 RL. In fact, AWD is even better in order to put that much power and torque down onto the roads, rather than watching the rear tires spinning crazy or the traction control cutting off power to the rear wheels. I'll take either one, just release the god damn car.

Edward'TLS

Let me try to decipher this. When it says rear-wheel drive platform, it means the platform is designed for rear-wheel drive application. Whether Acura will release the RL in RWD or RWD-biased SH-AWD is another story.

If Acura is to create a RWD-biased SH-AWD RL, it doesn't need to spend multi-million dollars to designed a brand new RWD platform. The SH-AWD system on the soon-to-be-released '09 RL is already calibrated to be rear-biased (according to Acura press release).

Even though if the V8 RL were to come out first with SH-AWD, sooner or later the RWD version will soon be released to capitalize on the development cost of that new RWD platform, especially if the more expensive SH-AWD trim can't sell like it is now. Acura has since released a cheaper, reduced content V6 AWD RL last year to try to save the current RL sales.

Mansa24

Listening to you guys would be a bad idea. They would end up making a 500hp RWD V10 RL that none of you would actually buy, let alone the “real” consumers. Then you will still find something to b!tch about, the leather isn’t soft enough, it’s too expensive, why didn't they give it a twin-turbo V12. You guys will always complain no matter what.

I know it’s hard to swallow, but AZ is a small percentage of Acura customers. Acura has to appeal to the masses, not a group of car enthusiasts. Don’t get me wrong, I think they could do more to please both groups, but this b!thcing is getting old. If you don’t like Acura…MOVE ON. Go buy a BMW 1 series or Hyundai Genesis and be happy.

Anyway, the problem with the RL isn’t SH-AWD or having a V6. The RL bland is too, it just doesn’t look sexy enough. IMO, if you put the Lexus GS body on the RL it would sell like hotcakes.

VTEC Racer

Were not asking Acura to give us an S65 Mercedes competitor RL. All we are asking is to at least just give is cars that MATCH the competition. They have already made clear that they do not want to be ahead of the competition, is it so hard to at least just match them or even be close? I don't think so.

It is one thing to make an ugly car. When your ugly car can't even match the performance of other cars, then why even bother?

Jackygor

Wow, you sound like Acura doesn't really want my money, and I am sure there are plenty of people like me on this board

Edward'TLS

Exactly, when I spent so much money on a luxury car, I don't want it to be SLOW.

Jackygor

ignore this post hahaha I didn't know what I was thinking, most of us don't own an Acura anymore anyways heh

edit: I can edit that post for some reason

Mansa24

Despite its aging lineup Acura still out sold Infiniti and others last year. Acura may not appeal to car enthusiasts but they still sell. I think the new TSX and next TL will sale very well. In the end sales are all that matter.

Edward'TLS

Yes Acura outsold Infiniti and such. But Infiniti sells expensive cars, but Acura sells cheap (as in price) cars. Acura can't sell anything above $50K, with the RL.

The more expensive the car is, the more profit the car company is making. That's why car makers all want to setup luxury divisions, which will make lots of profit by selling fewer cars than by selling many more cheap cars from the economy divisions.

In other words, Infiniti by selling fewer expensive vehicles may reap in more profits than Acura by selling many, many more cheaper "luxury-wanna-be" vehicles. In the end, it is not sales that matters, it is profits that matters.

Mansa24

The TL sedan sold more units than the G35 sedan
The MDX sold more units than the FX.
The RL sold 6,262 units. I’m not sure if that beats the M35/45

Acura isn’t doing as bad as people make them out to be. With an aging lineup Acura still sells pretty well when compared to the comp. Yeah, sells are down but that is to be expected with when your lineup is old and most of your comp released all new models.

mrdeeno

Tell me you're kidding...

February sales:
1. 5 - 4,442
2. E - 2,547
3. M - 1,581
4. STS - 1,436
5. GS - 1,422
6. S80 - 1,270
7. A6 - 847
8. RL - 408
9. S-Type - 402
10. 9-5 - 223

1. 3 - 8,943
2. C - 5,781
3. G - 5,742
4. CTS - 5,118
5. TL - 4,127
6. IS - 3,906
7. A4 - 2,775
8. S60 - 1,310
9. 9-3 - 1,071
10. X-Type - 180

FX and MDX aren't competitors...MDX is a "broad appeal" SUV while FX is a niche SUV focused on performance.

You're right, Acura shouldn't listen to us especially when it comes to the RL because they knew what they were doing, which is why it's such a stellar seller since it started selling!

TSX69

I am too lazy to look but the M35/45 sells roughly 1,500 units/month -- putting it 4th behind the 5 Series, E Class & GS repectively. It should be noted that its sales have been very close to the GS & I think recently has surpassed it.

You can also add that the RDX outsells the EX35 but since it just came out in December, that might be a bit premature.

GreenMonster

I'm actually suprised they can sell 400 RL's in a month... I would have thought it would be lower than that... But I guess they are selling them at a discount:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...3894#post63894

TSX69

The G Sedan sold 4,085; combined w/ the Coupe it outsold the TL. It speaks well for the aging FWD TL who is in its 5th year whereas the RWD G35/7 are relatively new.

Mansa24

I said the TL sold more units than the G35 sedan in 2007, not the G35 sedan and coupe. Those are combined numbers for the G35. I talking sedan because the TL only comes as a sedan.

Also, I'm not talking about the month of Feb. I'm talking about the CY2007. The RL sold 6,262 units in 2007, not 408.

mrdeeno

ok...

CY2007

M - 20,724
RL - 6,262

How is this even close???

Mansa24

Everyone knows that the RL isn’t a top sell. My point is that Acura isn’t doing as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

Acura sales 180,104 units
Infiniti sales 127, 038 units

Anyway, let’s move on back to the next gen RL. I hope the next RL is a success.

phile

The old RL sold at that rate too. Does not speak well for the 2nd gen RL at all.

Edward'TLS

Acura isn't doing as bad when you start comparing it with the also slow selling Infiniti. Try comparing it with the highly successful, huge-profit-making Lexus which can sell vehicles well over the $50K mark.

Edward'TLS

Anyone has the breakdown on the sales numbers of the cheaper reduced-content RL versus the expensive full-blown RL ?

Costco

Who the hell is asking for a V10 RL? I see your exaggeration there but the only thing we're asking for is:

RWD + V8

And guess what? Most of the people in Car Talk have owned an Acura or multiple Acuras at one point in time, but now most of them don't anymore and there's a reason why we haven't and won't be going back. It's not our loss.... if they don't want our business then why would we give a damn?

The luxury + sport luxury + entry lux market is neither a niche or volume market. The appeal to the masses is what Honda is for. I can tell they're trying to go for bolder designs (see the radically ugly ass RL grill and TSX grill)

Sales are what matters though in the end Acura is still a joke outside of this website in general. I still have respect for Acura's current products but the outlook on their future isn't so great. People my age are drooling over Lexuses, BMWs and MBs, smacking pictures of them onto their myspaces and buying them, but an Acura just ain't good enough to most of them.

If Acura expects to sell more new RLs with that ugly grill than they did the 2G they've got another thing coming.

MaximaPower

i believe there are more acura dealers than infiniti dealers out there

but those numbers aren't so bad for acura...which is why i believe they feel like there's nothing to change about acura, honda figures that they are doing well why change

Edward'TLS

No, no, no. Honda has explicitly stressed that it doesn't want the Acura brand to remain as what it is now - meaning as a "luxury-wanna-be" brand which can't crack into the highly profitable >$50k vehicle market. Honda has numerous times stressed that it want to elevate the Acura brand to become a true luxury brand and be recognized as such among other players such as Lexus (and Maybach ??).

If sales figures are all that Honda wants for the Acura brand, then why not just merge the Acura products into the economy Honda brand, rather than wasting money setting up two non-luxury auto divisions. No, Honda wants a true luxury division selling niche products including vehicles priced above $50k.

Honda has been doing something in this direction, such as a separate design studio and marketing firm for Acura, the unified (but ugly) Acura signature grill, and the upcoming V8/RWD/SH-AWD RL. Hope it will work out given time.

mrdeeno

And this is why many of us here stress how Honda/Acura talks big but never actually follows through with actions.

Regardless of sales figures and how many times apologists may use that to say that Acura is "doing fine", Honda is NOT happy with Acura's performance as a brand, and as a brand, Acura is NOT doing fine. Maybe the changes they have made will unfold successfully, maybe not. Not holding my breath.

PG2G

Maybe people around here just have unrealistic expectations.

If Acura opens a new design studio, it doesn't mean you're going to see their work in cars coming out 6 months to a year afterwards (no, I don't know whether or not the RL and TSX are the work of the new studio).

If Acura contracts with a new ad agency, it doesn't mean you're going to see new and fresh Acura ads in a month.

If Acura decides that they want to go upmarket, that does not mean that will be reflected in current and near-future product.

Yes, Acura has done a lot of talking. Has any of it come true yet? Hell no :P Stuff takes time though. Cars take time to make, business plans take time to change. Let's give them some.

mrdeeno

Acura has been successful with the entry-level offerings (TL, TSX) and SUV, but have failed otherwise. I think Acura's already used up it's allotted allowance of time...

1G RL (including refresh) - 1996-2004. They had 8 years to nail the 2G RL. Instead they nailed the 2G RL's coffin.

1G NSX - 1990-2005. They had 15 years to nail the NSX successor. Instead they are still dicking around trying to figure out which direction to go.

1G CL - 1997-1999. Then they released the poor selling 2nd gen CL only to kill it off instead of learning from their past mistakes and redesigning a more successful coupe. This should have been indication that "conservative" styling does not mix with "sporty coupe". Instead of using that lesson, they quit.

Integra - 1985-2001. The integra was successful all its years in production. Acura had a chance to keep that legacy going, but instead renames it an RSX, keeps it downmarket, only to kill it off after 1 generation as the RSX.

Seriously, how much time should we give them to design a winning RL and NSX, because they seem to fuck up no matter how much time they take anyway?

dom

People have been clamoring for more power (not a lot of power just more than 200) in the TSX for 5 solid years and what did they deliver? Absolutely nothing.

5 years is an eternity in the automotive world. 15 and 8 is just inexcusable.

agranado

Could not have been expressed any better.

+1 invisible rep