The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

That's why Acura's up shits creak, you can't have 4 products based off the same core chassis and try to call them 4 levels of vehicles, you can't product differentiate enough. (I say 4 because the MDX is off the pilot, which originated from an accord, and I doubt that lineage has been removed quite yet).

As I Said in the the TSX discussion, the more and more I keep coming to these threads, the more I'm getting pissed off at Acura.

mrdeeno

Actually, you can have 4 products based off the same chassis differentiated enough to be at different levels...350z, G35/37, M35/45, FX35/45, EX35. Big difference between Honda and nissan though is that Honda is run by a bunch of pussies that are too conservative to really differentiate their cars...that and basing your cars off a FWD based platform will limit what HP you can put into the cars before NEEDING AWD. RWD has no such limit and thus the more flexible with drivetrain offerings.

n3ok318

iTrader: (1)

There's nothing new about the RL. The design still isn't appealing, and there's no noticeable technology in that car either. Why would one go out and buy this instead of its competitors?

The new RL could've done so much for Acura if they did it right. But they missed their chance..

swift22

well since they are trying to follow in GMs and ford's shoes by building cars all based off the same platform and such. Ford brought back the "Taurus" name...

bring back da LEGEND!(america)

SpicyMikey

Not sure this is meant to be a "new" RL (eventhough that's what they are calling it). Just seems to be a temporary patch to keep it from being totally ignored (as opposed to mostly ignored) now that the new TSX and TL are coming out this year. Looks like the rumors say the RL will be all new in another 1 1/2 years for the 2010 MY.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

It would have been cheaper to just stop building them.

jwong77

Sorry man, doesn't matter what they name that car. Looking like that, its still doomed!

TommySalami

I like everything but the front

GreenMonster

Got an "Discover the just-revealed 2009 RL" email from acura this morning...

Even the marketing people must think the grille is fugly, since this is the photo they used in the email:



Maybe the opinions on the web and forums influenced their decision on what angle to show the RL ??

Link to RL launch site:

http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?init...s_RL2009Launch

SpicyMikey

Funny, I was thinking the same thing when I read the email today. You don't usually show an ass shot of a car when you debut it.

I guess they didn't want to shock you until after you had your first cup of coffee. Kind of eeeease you into the new look by starting with the back -- which isn't bad by the way

dom

Looks even more like an Accord in that pic GM posted.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

am i the only one that thinks the rear end is over done? It looks too busy IMO. Not to mention the econo-sedan stance it has.

theslik1

Just being cynical here, but it does give Acura an opportunity to "tweak" the front end while continuing their marketing campaign.

Then again, that would be giving them WAY too much credit...

JediMindTricks

it looks good, but it does look over-done. i see a bit of an accord, bmw, and s-class too.

but your second point, the econo-sedan stance, is what really bugs me about the car. this is why i keep thinking that the exterior looks nothing of a car with a $50k price tag.

(by the way, i got this email too and thought the same thing: why show the rear? )

SpicyMikey

I think that was not the most flatering shot for the rear end. It does look like it's ass is in the air. The video on TOV from the press conference looked much different. Besides, it the same body and frame. It probably doesn't stand much different then the current one, which looks very good in that department IMO

JediMindTricks

i think you're right in that's not a very flattering shot.

eh. maybe the car will look better in person.

SpicyMikey

It BETTER! Can't look too much worse in pictures

After posting that last comment I did remind myself they did some suspension tweeking. However, they said they made it stiffer (or at least implied it). I would think it might get a bit lower if anything.

I'm not interested in buying one since I own an 07 RL. But I really can't wait to take one for a drive and see how much differently it handles with the new SHAWD, suspension, and J37

titan

The rear's not bad. I just hope the improved they interior and front fascia.

F23A4

Then again, every Legend/RL generation looked like an Accord at one point or another.....I still recall the first generation Legend looking like a larger version of the 3G Accord sans flip-up head lights.

AsianRage

What's wrong with the interior? It's still one of the best in its class.

agranado

Again, the interior is still strong...

Edward'TLS

The sole purpose of the new multi-million $ Acura design center in California is to differentiate Acura products (especially the look) from the cheap Honda products. Looks like all these money has gone down the drain, together with the investments spent on the new F1 wind tunnel.

SpicyMikey

But all we've seen is an MMC tweek on the RL and a few photos of the base TSX. To me the new TSX looks good.

I think it's still too early to be writing the obituary for the new Acura design center. In another couple years when they've released all the new models and their variants we can pass judement. Strong rumors have them releasing another SUV, a convertible (maybe off the TSX), and a coupe off the TSX. They are supposed to be planning for 9 distinct products by 2010

Edward'TLS

I agree with you, but isn't the new TSX the new European Accord designed elsewhere. All that is visually difference is that ugly Acura-specific grille very likely comes out from the new US design center. I'm just too eager to see some real work coming from that design center.

JediMindTricks

i guess we're just gonna have to wait for the new design center to really get going.

but i think it was dom that brought a good point. is it just a design center or will it be responsible for everything bottom up?

if' it's just a design center, then we'll still be stuck with the accord platform.

dom

From what I can tell, besides the grille, the new TSX and Euro Accord are identical (exterior). I doubt the new design center played any role in the new TSX.

At least on the current gen TSX Acura had the good sense to give the TSX unique wheels. Too bad they didn't have that same good sense this time around.

SpicyMikey

Of course, didn't even give it much thought as I was typing that idea. The TSX isn't even a product of the California design center. It's an assumption but a good one. So how much can we really blame them for at this point?

I wonder if the new RL will break ranks somehow with the legend and become a full size NA market product. if so, that would probably be fully designed in CA. Unforunately, it also means it will probably won't be made in Japan anymore.

Edward'TLS

The California design center is not responsible for designing vehicle chassis. A new vehicle chassis (platform) is a major undertaking which is solely done in the Japan headquarter. Today's trend to cut cost is to build as many cars and trucks out of a single world platform, and to keep as few world platforms as is possible.

I have no problem with Acura's using the Accord world platform. The TL is already using a stretched Accord platform. As long as the rest of the car is not shared, I bet no outsider can tell which platform a car is built on both by looking and driving the car. My only worry is that the Accord platform is only for FWD applications.

jz-97-c7

naaah...it just seems that way. the mdx, rdx, rl, ridgeline, and pilot are all on the same accord platform. and they're awd.

someone else eluded to it earlier platform sharing ain't all bad...nissan pimps the hell out of the fm chassis...but they at least can get fwd,awd, and rwd out of the same layout...honda hasn't quite grasped that concept yet.

Edward'TLS

The Honda/Acura AWD is a FWD based system. The front wheels do most of the driving, and only when slipping, redirect torque to the rear wheel(s). The Accord platform is simply not designed for focus on RWD applications.

Nissan has been building RWD vehicles for years, so it has the fore-sight to design a platform flexible enough for all driving axle applications. Whereas till now, Honda still doesn't acknowledge the importance of RWD cars and trucks. Hence, the result.

SpicyMikey

Not quite true Ed. My RL and MDX have SHAWD. If you can believe the MID display, my RL is almost balanced front and rear with torque. My MDX is clearly FWD biased but always has about 30% power going to the rear. It's not a simple slip dif setup. It's "always on" power and it's a very sure footed ride. The "SH' part of the SHAWD is where you get the torque vectoring concept that kicks in on curves.

According to the new literature about the 09 RL, they've enhanced the system to send more power to the rear. If that's the case, based on my experience with an 07, it might truly be a rwd biased system now on the new RL.

Edward'TLS

This is very good news, with more power going to the rear than the front as default. But the car could use more power, 350+hp ??

Edward'TLS

FYI, copied from the Car&Driver.com website. It says the current generation RL is still using the global front-drive platform for adaptation. Honda still has no rear-drive sedan platform in production up to this moment.

SpicyMikey

Correct . The system is built on a fwd transaxle setup. Wasn't trying to suggest it wasn't. However, aside from the extra weight bias for that type of setup, I've personally never really felt any characteristics of a fwd vehicle.

Do you own an RL? If not, you should drive one. The steering is light and responsive. It handles fantastic on acceleration and doesn't handle like a fwd vehicle. The suspension is a little soft for my sporty taste, but they also seem to have fixed that with the 09.

With even more power being pushed to the back, and better suspension, I suspect the RL will be even better to drive -- if not look at.

JediMindTricks

i wonder how the MMC RL will impact pre-owned 05-08 RL's.

i wouldn't mind buying a used 05-08 RL in the future.

sadlerau

I may be wrong, but the MID display shows the variation in torque delivery from the norm. The norm is 70-30 split front to rear. So when the MID is showing an even split, the drivetrain is experiencing a 70-30 split.

But I agree with you on the handling. Especially in Legend guise, it never exhibits a FWD set-up until you are REALLY pushing the adhesion envelope. And that is before you activate the SH-AWD by stepping on the gas. Driven properly [knowing how and when to use the SH-AWD] it will out handle ANYTHING out there in it's class, including the BMW 5 series.

SpicyMikey

I've never heard it described that way with the MID display. I'm almost certain it is displaying the true torque distribution to the wheels. I own an RL and an MDX. The two are definitely tuned differently. The MDX is definitely FWD biased. WHen I'm accelerating it shows 4 bars to the front and maybe 2 to the back. When I'm cruising it might show 3 front and 2 back. When I turn it will usually throw an extra bar or two to the back outside wheel. The RL is almost even all the time. On acceleration I might get an extra bar to the front for a moment. Keep in mind I think they've slipped in some unofficial "tweeks" over the years so some guys report different things with different years.

Bottom line; I've owned a LOT of RWD cars in my life and a few FWD's. The MDX drives a bit heavy in the front end. But the RL definitely doesn't feel like a FWD car at all, not to me. Then again, the FWD TSX and TL don't really drive like a lot of FWD cars either. I have a TL loaner right now while my RL is getting a new tire installed. I'm just amazed how good it drives. They've really got this FWD thing down pat.

Edward'TLS

I'll never question the handling performance of the RL. It is a AWD car, and should never handle like a FWD car. With Honda, you can never go wrong with handling performance. That's also why we'll never see a 300hp FWD car from Acura.

But it is definitely a good move for Acura to bias power more to the rear wheels than the fronts. Even Audi is starting to retune its Quattro AWD the same way, so as to make the recalibrated cars feel the same as those BMW ix's and MB 4-matic's which are based on RWD platforms.

Unfortunately I only managed to test-drive the SH-AWD RL when it first came out, and didn't quite have the chance to try out the SH-AWD driving fast in the twisties. Largely due to it's high price (I believe it must be heavily discounted now), I ended up buying an A6 3.2 Quattro then.

BuddySol

I thought the current gen MDX was a whole new truck platform? It's what's going to be used for the upcoming Pilot.

jz-97-c7

negative...honda hath no such chassis