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Honda sold 1.4 million vehicles in 2021, while Acura (which is the brand at hand) sold 157,408. In perspective, BMW and Mercedes sold nearly a million more than America Honda. The reality of it is, Acura's marketing demonstrates these vehicles, including base models, to be these high performance vehicles. The definition of luxury isn't Acura either, no offense. A fully loaded MDX is the closest thing to real luxury and that's my opinion. Another member in the TLX section stated that .000001 % of vehicle owners don't keep their vehicles for 10 years, well that's not true either as many are now keeping their vehicles much longer. Average of 8 to 9 years. I get it if you want to defend the brand, just don't be blind to the fact of what the brand advertises and the reality of it all. Acura was known as a reliable, affordable brand which had competitive performance for it's time. I love my TL and I will eventually own an NSX ( I can buy one right now ) this isn't the brand we all once had such admiration for. People move on and buy other brand, while others stay brand loyal. Nothing wrong with that.
Just my two cents. Have a great Sunday.
Just to keep your record correct, 2021 sales figures for the North American market :
US Honda : 1,309,222
US Acura : 157,408
US BMW : 336,694
US MB : 329,574
I don't see where your statement "BMW and Mercedes sold nearly a million more than America Honda" comes from !?
Otherwise, you are absolutely correct and I agree 100% with you.
Honda makes econo and reliable products. Acura makes higher performance versions of the Honda econo products, although still falls way short in term of performance level against the truly high performance European autos.
So when someone starts whining about Honda/Acura products being the losers in drag races, I can't resist but to remind them the above facts which are already well known in the auto industry. Honda/Acura products are not particularly good in drag races against the best of the bests.
For those who must have the fastest vehicle on the road and/or the highest hp rating in the class, Honda/Acura products are not for them. Please buy from other auto brands.
I did not blindly defend any brand. I merely state the facts, and report my experience of owning my vehicles, regardless of the makes. Over the years I have reported in numerous threads :
- my old-timer A4 burned oil like crazy, and absolutely poor reliability starting in the 5th year of ownership.
- my old-timer A6 had the tranny replaced twice under warranty, and better reliability after the 5th year, but still not good.
- my 2G TL-S had a "nightmare from hell' tranny, and had to be traded in after the replacement tranny showed yet another imminent failure without warranty.
- my 3G MDX has far too many factory recalls, with some related to safety issues.
- my 4G TL burned oil big time, and the engine pinging issue had no fix, but rock solid reliability after the 5th year.
- my 2G TLX-S has turbo lag, and therefore off-the-line acceleration is not particularly strong.
I will only praise good products, but won't hesitate to report bad products, be it an Audi, a Honda, an Acura, or some other auto brands.
Just to keep your record correct, 2021 sales figures for the North American market :
US Honda : 1,309,222
US Acura : 157,408
US BMW : 336,694
US MB : 329,574
I don't see where your statement "BMW and Mercedes sold nearly a million more than America Honda" comes from !?
Otherwise, you are absolutely correct and I agree 100% with you.
Honda makes econo and reliable products. Acura makes higher performance versions of the Honda econo products, although still falls way short in term of performance level against the truly high performance European autos.
So when someone starts whining about Honda/Acura products being the losers in drag races, I can't resist but to remind them the above facts which are already well known in the auto industry. Honda/Acura products are not particularly good in drag races against the best of the bests.
For those who must have the fastest vehicle on the road and/or the highest hp rating in the class, Honda/Acura products are not for them. Please buy from other auto brands.
I did not blindly defend any brand. I merely state the facts, and report my experience of owning my vehicles, regardless of the makes. Over the years I have reported in numerous threads :
- my old-timer A4 burned oil like crazy, and absolutely poor reliability starting in the 5th year of ownership.
- my old-timer A6 had the tranny replaced twice under warranty, and better reliability after the 5th year, but still not good.
- my 2G TL-S had a "nightmare from hell' tranny, and had to be traded in after the replacement tranny showed yet another imminent failure without warranty.
- my 3G MDX has far too many factory recalls, with some related to safety issues.
- my 4G TL burned oil big time, and the engine pinging issue had no fix, but rock solid reliability after the 5th year.
- my 2G TLX-S has turbo lag, and therefore off-the-line acceleration is not particularly strong.
I will only praise good products, but won't hesitate to report bad products, be it an Audi, a Honda, an Acura, or some other auto brands.
Sorry about the sales figures, I looked up numbers quickly on a Sunday morning before heading out to a Cars and Coffee event. I must have given you global numbers. My apologizes again for the false numbers. I only brought up Mercedes and BMW as it's the two common brands Acura is always compared to. I should have said Audi as that's always tossed around here often.
Acura is perfectly capable of producing vehicles their marketing team demonstrates. I don't understand their need to be deceitful in their ads. Visit www.Acura.com and the 1st thing you see, vehicles drifting, on a race track or off course, performance this, type-s that. Next screen the "Power" of precision. Power moves & athletic performance.
It's obvious why Acura has been a laughing stock among many. I feel as if in one sense they are trying to come up while also shooting themselves in the foot. They are a small brand, still behind the industry as we are in a big push for EV and they offer none. I worked for two Acura dealerships in the past, even now when I stop by to buy parts, they aren't as busy as when I worked there.
I saw my 1st Integra on the road today. Black A-spec and honestly, it did nothing for me. Even though at an Acura event I attended, I spent time up close with the Integra. I still break my own neck when I see a very clean A-spec 3rd gen TL. I always admire that they look timeless. Something about the older Acura that I appreciate more. I come from a family of Acuras, down to when my parents purchased a 92 Legend.
Thanks for your reply.
Side note:
As much as I would love to buy an NSX, I may end up with a custom ordered M3. Going to the BMW factory plant in Spartanburg around my birthday. My local dealership just advised me today that it's 6 months for a custom (individual) ordered M3.
The new M3 is fugly I was going to order one too...just couldn't deal with the buck tooth beaver face they put on it for spending that kind of cash on one but that's a topic for a different thread.
Speaking of BMW, can someone tell me what happened to Bear?
I was concern about him so I reached out. Something happened to his account, where he could no longer sign in. I reached out to a few moderators to assist. Ironically enough, this happened around the same time some were given some "moderator powers", but that's just me speaking out loud.
Bear is one of those enthusiasts that can not be replaced. The respect I have for him is tremendous. It's rare to know someone like him who build his own race car, heavily modify vehicles, has been on a race trace multiple times and has always owned vehicles worth bragging about. The guy knows his stuff incredibly well. He's not a poser by any means. Bear is a true legend in the automotive community.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
The new M3 is fugly I was going to order one too...just couldn't deal with the buck tooth beaver face they put on it for spending that kind of cash on one but that's a topic for a different thread.
Not to continue to derail this thread, it certainly got a lot of flak. It grew on me the more and more I see them in person. It might be the last of it's kind before everything turns EV.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-02-2022 at 06:27 PM.
Part of the reason we're in no rush to replace either car.
Wife's shortlist: Wagoneer, Defender, Telluride. That's without actually having any seat time in any of them, just from aesthetics.
Mine changes on the daily. Maverick, WL GC 4xe, maybe a JL 4xe, or go big & find a nice used Suburban.
I can tolerate the g80s front end but I cannot pay 10k-15k over MSRP for that front end.
The 4 series on the other hand, the more I looked at it the uglier It gets.
Just can't.
I was offered the car at MSRP with a 3-4 month wait. This was late last spring when shit hadn't hit the fan yet. I saw a couple of them in person (sold, waiting for pickup at the dealership) and just couldn't get myself to do it...
Used Suburban would be if we wanted to not pay new prices, though used isn't much cheaper.
That said, I'm still not a big fan of the current gen GM SUV design. Looks too skinny for its height, disproportionate.
To be fair to the Integra, it is undoubtedly the slowest in a drag race, but it also seems to be very fun to drive, if not downright the most fun to drive out of the likes of GTI, A3, A220, 228i, GLI, Elantra N, etc. This is based on the many reviews out there.
The likes of the Audi S3 and A35 pretty much start at $45k and go to $55k. I think if Acura were to make an integra type s, it will likely have the 2.0T from the Accord or TLX, so 252 or 272hp. Considering the price premium from the Accord 1.5T sport to 2.0T sport is about $4k and that's also with several additional features for the 2.0T sport, I would think the jump for the Integra Type S will be about $6k on top of the $35.8k Integra A spec Tech to factor in the suspension and brake changes. We will probably be looking at $42k fully loaded. That will likely be some $10k less than a similarly equipped S3 or A35. That's also gonna be $10k less than the tlx type s to avoid any internal competition (plus no awd).
The CTR will likely be in the same price range too. So it will be up to the individual whether you want a tracked focused type r, or a more luxury oriented integra Type S with 10AT optional.
the amount of overlap in price points for the Civic Si and CTR also muddy the issue a bit as well. Also expect the ITR/ITS will have the K20 turbo with a 10AT or 6MT option, my curiosity is whether the dual axis fron suspension from the CTR will be used.
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
It is well known that Honda/Acura products are not drag race kings, and that Honda/Acura are not pursuing horsepower wars.
So when Honda/Acura sold more than 1.3 millions vehicles last year, it, all the more, demonstrates that Honda/Acura customers are more than satisfy with mere knives and pea shooters. Being the best of the bests in drag races and having the highest hp figure in the class, have zero bearing for customers purchasing Honda/Acura vehicles.
Also, it seems that Honda/Acura have zero interest in winning the hearts of the negligible volume of die hard fans who buy only the quickest drag-race and the highest hp vehicles.
Honda/Acura have never been about those living the 0-60 or 1/4 mile life. Honda/Acura's are more about overall balance in their "three joys" mantra approach to vehicles.
One of the odd things about the Civic/Integra copy discussion is although the two cars do share there is alot they do not share non-drivetrain wise. According to the SG video, all bodywork and structural sheet metal piece from the floorpan up are unique.
This is the weird thing, there is not much visible difference between the two model unlike the 3G TL which was based on the 7G Accord but looked very different inside and out. Auoblog also got into this as they showed details on many details in the interior which are similar looking but actually different components. So it's odd to say the least to have very similar looking interior/exterior but with different components which still costs in separate tooling costs.
The sad thing is that the reviews of it as a car are great. They all say it's fun to drive, the interior feels great, it's built well.
But then when you compare it to the nameplate + the Civic Si, it leaves you scratching your head. Jason Camissa summed it up well in his quick review on Instagram - it's as if Honda wanted to give the Si a CVT but couldn't tarnish it's legacy. So they made the Integra and charged $3k more to differentiate it. But then they got confuse with the manual and made it $8k more.
if anything, Honda just made the Si more appealing by introducing the 37k Integra.
Agreed, decontenting notwithstanding. Honestly, there would have been no shame in just giving the Si an optional CVT OR availing the more powerful 1.5T for the Touring. THEN just make a 2.0T Integra with the “potential” of a CTR variant at a later date.
As blasphemous as that sounds, I think it’s true. Manual buyers are expecting more performance/driving enjoyment, and as I discovered on my test drive the car falls flat in that department. I give the ILX a lot of grief, but it’s a good car in terms of engagement and is fun to drive (it just stinks as a premium car). The Integra just isn’t as rewarding or engaging to drive, even with a manual, but it’s a nice car to be in. I suppose put another way, it’s a really great “normal-person” car, and a normal person is going to prefer the CVT over the manual.
Wait, MT is saying ILX is a better car to drive than Integra?
If i recall correctly, the particular gen Civic that ILX was built on sucked
No, what I'm saying is that the ILX is a better driver's car than the Integra even though the ILX as a premium car is absolutely terrible. It was loud, unrefined, and cheap (all bad things for a premium car) but it handled well, had a really nice motor with character, and a 6MT or 8DCT (all good things from an engagement perspective).
the amount of overlap in price points for the Civic Si and CTR also muddy the issue a bit as well. Also expect the ITR/ITS will have the K20 turbo with a 10AT or 6MT option, my curiosity is whether the dual axis fron suspension from the CTR will be used.
Honda/Acura have never been about those living the 0-60 or 1/4 mile life. Honda/Acura's are more about overall balance in their "three joys" mantra approach to vehicles.
One of the odd things about the Civic/Integra copy discussion is although the two cars do share there is alot they do not share non-drivetrain wise. According to the SG video, all bodywork and structural sheet metal piece from the floorpan up are unique.
This is the weird thing, there is not much visible difference between the two model unlike the 3G TL which was based on the 7G Accord but looked very different inside and out. Auoblog also got into this as they showed details on many details in the interior which are similar looking but actually different components. So it's odd to say the least to have very similar looking interior/exterior but with different components which still costs in separate tooling costs.
Thanks for the photos. They are quite different when looking at them closely.
What the Integra needs now is DCT instead of CVT, make the 6MT available in more trims, and separate the Tech pkg from the A spec kit. A $33.8k fully loaded (no a spec kit) 6MT integra with HUD, ELS, adaptive dampers, heated seats, memory seats, powered seats, wireless charging, wireless AA/carplay, liftback design, better warranty, free maintenance would make it look more attractive. For that price you can't even buy a base A3.
Be honest...are you surprised about that? They even did a launch color in that sweet yellow...and then didn't actually offer it on a production car lol.
Be honest...are you surprised about that? They even did a launch color in that sweet yellow...and then didn't actually offer it on a production car lol.
Not 1 bit. I haven't been surprised by Acura since the introduction of 4G TL.
If i ever get surprised by Acura again, that should be an indication that Acura did something right.
Thanks for the photos. They are quite different when looking at them closely.
What the Integra needs now is DCT instead of CVT, make the 6MT available in more trims, and separate the Tech pkg from the A spec kit. A $33.8k fully loaded (no a spec kit) 6MT integra with HUD, ELS, adaptive dampers, heated seats, memory seats, powered seats, wireless charging, wireless AA/carplay, liftback design, better warranty, free maintenance would make it look more attractive. For that price you can't even buy a base A3.
+1, a DCT would provide a distinction over the Civic CVT and agree on the 6MT across the trim range.
^
If Acura did those things to begin with, we wouldnt be having these conversations to begin with.
Unfortunately, they messed up AGAIN.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Be honest...are you surprised about that? They even did a launch color in that sweet yellow...and then didn't actually offer it on a production car lol.
Ya lol. Should be a relatively easy fix so hopefully they will do something about that soon!
Acura made a lot of Honda fans very happy earlier this year, when it brought the Integra name back to market. Now, it's about to make those same fans even happier, as it seems an Acura Integra Type S is currently in the works and could be the spiritual successor to the beloved Integra Type R.
This recent video from Allcarnews shows off some new spy photos of a camouflaged Acura testing in public and it looks very much like it's based on the new Civic Type R. Acura also trademarked the "Type S" name earlier in the year. Put two and two together and you get an Acura Integra Type S that's almost certainly based on the new Civic Type R.
Admittedly, the Acura test mule in these photos is mostly covered by black camouflage wrapping, so it's hard to see exactly what it is. However, there's one key feature of this clandestine Acura that gives its Type S-nature away—triple exhaust pipes. It's the same triple exhaust design as the Honda Civic Type R, hinting that this Acura shares the same powertrain.
If its powertrain is the same, that will give the Acura Integra Type S a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine, making 315 horsepower and 310 pound-feet of torque. In the Honda, that engine is exclusively paired to a six-speed manual transmission and powers only the front wheels, so you can expect the same from Acura. The standard Integra gets a CVT option but I wouldn't bet on the Type S getting a CVT.
One thing the Integra Type S won't get from the Honda Civic Type R is its wing. The Honda has a big fixed rear wing that sticks up almost as high as its roof. In the spy photos, the Acura has no such wing and could use a more subtle rear lip spoiler instead, to make it a bit more mature looking.
That more mature design might make its way to the interior as well. The standard Integra features a similar interior to the current Civic Si, just with a slightly more upscale design and more premium materials. But it's mostly the same. An Integra Type S could borrow heavily from the Civic Type R, which could give it the same metallic shift knob, Alcantara steering wheel, and upgraded seats.
Is this Acura test mule guaranteed to be an Integra Type S? No, Acura hasn't officially announced the existence of such a car. However, judging by its triple exhaust pipes, bigger seemingly Brembo brake calipers, and Acura's "Type S" trademark, it seems likely.
CTR powertrain in the existing Integra A-Spec+Tech, priced mid, maybe even high 40s and I'll buy it at MSRP. It can't possibly be that hard for Honda to do....
2022 CTR is $39k MSRP IIRC
Imagine the 2023 redesign gets a price bump into the 40s
Integra 6MT ASpec is $36k
Guessing the base MSRP for the ITS to be mid to high 40s
08-01-2022, 04:38 PM
the amount of overlap in price points for the Civic Si and CTR also muddy the issue a bit as well. Also expect the ITR/ITS will have the K20 turbo with a 10AT or 6MT option, my curiosity is whether the dual axis fron suspension from the CTR will be used. 
