Colin

If you consider the financial crisis of '08-'09 as one event that affected multiple product, when else have they been guilty of betraying your trust with announcements for things that didn't materialize?

dom

I think the change from the previous president (can't recall the name) to the current president Ito, had a greater effect on Honda's plans than the financial crisis did. The fact they came at about the same time didn't help but it seems Ito basically scraped all projects and started fresh. We would have seen some changes/delays with or without the financial meltdown IMO.

Legend2TL

I'm guessing the 60o angle K-series cannot support a DOHC head like the 90o C-series did for the NSX. Not enough head width and room in the V for intake plumbing.

Legend2TL

I was only guessing at that, Honda is not the only one stubborn with diesels in the US market. Besides Audi/MB/VW who else does a US car diesel these days. IIRC Toyota has them for other markets but not US.


I can't imagine Honda doing a urea diesel for the US market, too much hassle for finicky owners.

biker

bmw

Colin

On the plus side, I recall reading that the diesel could work without urea in a Civic sized car so maybe....

CarbonGray Earl

I believe the innovative thing about the Honda diesel is that there is no need for a periodic urea injection.

At least that's what I remember reading about the proposed 2.2 liter diesel that was going to come here....I believe it was used in the Euro Accord at the time.

TSX69

A Chat w/ Honda Bosses

Honda President and CEO Takanobu Ito
There’s been a new sheriff in Hondaville since June 2009, and he understands what we automotive media types have been whining about recently, regarding Honda’s design and technology malaise. Takanobu Ito assumed the presidency then and has ever since been yanking on the reins of the company to steer it away from the green/efficiency-trumps-everything direction it was wobbling in and back towards its roots as a manufacturer of high-performing, fun-to-drive, and environmentally friendly cars. Uncharacteristically charismatic as Japanese auto magnates go, Ito-san doesn’t mince words and doesn’t make excuses. His resume suggests he may indeed have the stuff to put Honda’s money where his mouth is, having stamped his passport as a general supervisor of motorsports starting in April 2004, and before that having served as Executive Vice President of Honda R&D Americas since 1998. Right at the top of the interview, Ito-san declared that upon assuming the presidency, he made it clear that he intended for Honda to regain the high ground in terms of fun-to-drive and technological innovation. The supercar to be unveiled in Detroit will certainly represent a giant leap forward in the former, and the tech on display at Twin-Ring Motegi on the eve of the 2011 Tokyo Motor Show, suggests his troops have made a reasonable start toward the latter. Here are some highlights of our hour-long session.

Battery EVs versus hybrids: EVs make a lot of sense in compact and crowded Japan, hybrids make more sense in roomy America, where the Fit EV may prove to be as big an electric car as makes sense and as small a car as can be sold in reasonable numbers. Similarly, different types of hybrids will suit different vehicle types–IMA in small, low-priced cars, two-motor and SH-AWD hybrids in larger and luxury vehicles. Globally, he’s skeptical of Mr. Gohsn’s high sales aspirations for battery electrics, and agrees with most think-tank predictions that hybrids will grossly outsell EVs for the foreseeable future.

What went wrong with the Civic? Priorities got skewed. Ito-san takes full responsibility. That’s gallant, but he was serving as managing director of Honda del Peru when the big decisions were being made, so it doesn’t look like his fault. Steps are being taken to rectify the perceived deficiencies ASAP.

What’s next for Acura? Ito-san is not satisfied with the current performance of the brand in the U.S., though sales are strong in China and the Middle-East. He intends to make new products more unique and sporting. Look for the hybrid-electric Super-Handling AWD to figure in this renaissance, along with the supercar.

How will Honda cope with the strong Yen? The company is redoubling its efforts to build vehicles in the regions that consume them for the most part, with a goal of 80/20 domestic/import sourcing as a natural currency hedge. Toward that end, in order to fully utilize Japanese production capacity the company is attempting to increase its share of local sales in the popular Kei-class minicar class with products like the N Box and N Concept cars previewed at the Tokyo Show.

What about motorsports? Honda still finds competition to be fundamental to its interests. Ito-san stressed that there’s no truth to rumors of an impending return to Formula 1, but the company competes (successfully) in a number of other classes, including Indy racing, which is attracting some stiff competition of late. Honda also won Moto GP’s “triple crown”–leading in the rider, constructor, and team points counts.

President of Honda North America, Tetsuo Iwamura
We enjoyed an equally open and honest conversation with Honda’s North America boss, and contemporary of chairman Ito, Tetsuo Iwamura. Both men joined Honda in 1978, and we have to imagine they are good friends, as their personalities, demeanor, and sense of humor seem quite similar and accessible to North Americans. Once again we lobbed in the hardballs, and Iwamura-san cracked away at them.

What are you doing to fix Acura? A new RDX and small sedan are on the immediate horizon next spring. Acura’s mission is to provide smart luxury that meets social needs, not just personal needs. The small sedan will share some platform architecture with the Civic but feature unique powertrains. The forthcoming supercar is a core element of Honda/Acura’s history and DNA, and will be sold as an Acura in North America. We will also hear news about the RL flagship sedan quite soon too.

Will the Ridgeline pickup continue? Honda’s only truck is an important model and there is no current plan to cancel the Ridgeline, and measures are being considered to expand its appeal. (There is also no word on the timing or content of its replacement.)

Toyota reportedly made radical changes to its Camry in response to the Korean competition. Has the Accord experienced any such delays? No. The Accord due next year is expected to be quite successful without radical changes made midway through its development, as it has been designed with full knowledge of the competitive landscape.

Why isn’t the Crosstour selling better? The problem is not with that this is too much of a niche product, it hasn’t been marketed correctly. Iwamura-san now believes that using the Accord name changed people’s expectation of what the car was. Subtle changes in store for the vehicle and a fresh marketing approach should change the sales picture.

What about those Consumer Reports jabs? For so many years the disparity between the competition and Honda in terms of quality, materials and technology was large. Now it is considerably smaller, but the world still expects great differences. Honda is redoubling its efforts to widen this gap again, and intends to add content and technology with minimal price increases.

Design has been a recent weak point. Are any changes coming in that area? No. Honda has a very clear design principle, known as mmmm–man maximum, machine minimum. Honda will continue to adhere to these principles and will not follow the mode of fashion. [That said, we feel the EVster and AC-X look considerably better than some other recent Hondas.]

Will North American production capacity increase to further reduce Yen-hampered imports from Japan? There are no plans to expand production to new locations beyond the forthcoming Mexico plant, but that plant and the Indiana plant have room to expand production somewhat, should demand warrant it. Meeting future CAFE targets will ultimately require more hybrids, however, and so Honda will need to consider building them here.

Moog-Type-S

nuff said....oof!

krio

For 2012 the new minisedan, RDX, MDX, NSX concept..... Yum yum...

Legend2TL

Honest interview, let's seem some execution in 2012/13

biker

They still don't get it.....

CarbonGray Earl

At least this all meshes with my next car purchase I make....


....in 2015.

Moog-Type-S

They put their best model name on the car "Accord" and it still would not sell....could you imagine if they gave it its own name....and yet that might be what they will end up doing.

It's not the name of the car or the marketing.
The Crosstour is just an ugly niche car. Period. End of Story.

It's a mistake. Kill it, and move on.

AZuser

Add Chevy to the list in 2013 with their Cruze diesel.

Supposedly, Volvo will have a diesel hybrid in 2013. But there's no confirmation on that like with the Chevy Cruze.

If we include trucks, then add Chevy, Ford, Dodge, GMC, etc.

dom

I would have preferred to hear the truth on that one...It doesn't sell because its butt ugly and not as piratical as it should be. But he has to remain somewhat diplomatic.

Otherwise, its good to hear from the top dogs. But these changes can't come soon enough IMO. My next purchase is coming in May 2013, will Honda have anything that interests me by then?

AZuser

@

ttribe

From the article - "Honda will continue to adhere to these principles and will not follow the mode of fashion."

Good grief. In most instances, it's not a matter of fashion, it's a matter of progress.

Moog-Type-S

Is that a rhetorical question?

dom

biker

Yes, but other makers will likely have something even better.

dom

As far as performance goes, I don't think there's any question. The new NSX sounds promising as does the RL but what about affordable performance? I haven't seen anything in the announcements that addresses a 20-40K performance car.

Colin

I think that depends on 'how affordable' and how much performance we're talking about. They've released some info at the dealer show in Vegas that suggests that the sub-TSX will have a higher performance envelope than the Si, but not sure how much higher. Fingers crossed for 230-240 hp at 8000 RPM. Weight under 2900 lbs and price under 27K. IMO, this would be a good start.

Ken1997TL

CR-Z Si

Legend2TL

I remember reading that for the Euro Honda diesel which was similar to other new diesels in having high pressure electronic piezo injectors and no pre-combustion chamber.

I wonder if Honda is sourcing the injectors from Bosch (who developed them with MB). Honda likes to do tech their way, they developed their own injectors and fuel injection system with Keihi (Honda owns the majority of their stock) and ABS systems. Same hold true for AT as well.

Even GM in the 80's initially went with Bosch for their early port fuel injection systems and ABS systems.

F23A4

My sentiments exactly!!

pttl

How discouraging.

Colin

As I remember it, Honda had developed a "pre-catalytic converter" that created urea up-stream of the primary catalytic converter. This was then used as an aftertreatment to clean up nitrous oxides. I can only imagine that there are limitations to how much they could produce with this technology and that is the reason why engine size and car size would be limited.

Edward'TLS

If only Honda had "followed" VW and MB to use urea injection when designing it's own diesel engines, Honda diesel vehicles would have passed any tough US emission requirements with flying colors (just like VW and MB), and we would have had all these great and fuel-sipping Honda diesel vehicles years ago in North America.

billyt1963

I hope that the 1st car they announce with the new SH-AWD is the 2013 RDX! We just bought a 2011 Wagon and it gives me Acura envy. I can't wait to see what the new RDX will be like.

biker

^ I think long term all makers will end up following Honda and ditching urea injection - the initially higher cost alternate will eventually win out because of the convenience.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

But then every other auto makers will have a head-start selling diesel vehicles in North America, all the whilst Honda is struggling with non-urea diesel trying to pass the stringent US emission regulations.

It's always better to have a head-start in the auto business. The 4-door Prius sedan is an excellent example. The 1G Insight was a joke. The 2G Insight arrived one generation behind the Prius. In terms of sales, the one-generation-ahead Prius is highly successful when compared to the 2G Insight in the 4-door true hybrid class.

Another example is the Audi R8. It is a no-frill sport car which highly boosted the Audi brand image, all the whilst Honda is trying hard to build a fancy, no-ordinary NSX-replacement and allowing the brand image to dangle. I trust that Honda will never release a no-frill sport car to replace the NSX, despite all delays and disappointments.

dom

Yes it would. I'll take mine with that 7spd dual clutch please.

Colin

No way the new transmission debuts on the entry level car, besides, don't all enthusiasts want a proper 6MT?

biker

^

Legend2TL

Urea cars are a pain, my wife' co-worker has a diesel Beatle with a turbo diesel with it. Also expensive so it doen't go with Honda's philosophy.

Honda likes to do things their way, wheither for better or worst. Customer convenience is a higher priority for them than the Germans. I don't see getting in later to hurt the US diesel market which has always been a fickle market for the Japanese and somewhat for the Europeans (although MB stuck with it even in the lean 90's).

As to the Prius, timing was not the issue there, it was technical approach. Honda like their planar electric motor which could not be scaled up for electric only operation. The two motor Prius approach was and still is superior. Honda could have chosen that route but instead went the disc motor approach. That was a technical decision which was the wrong one. Toyota also made a tremendous infrastructure decision to build almost the entire drivetrain inhouse. Pretty brave business decision but it has paid off for them.

Legend2TL

I read somewhere the next generation of the Blue-Tec motors are going that way with no urea.

Legend2TL

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2011/...conomics-2010/

Although folks in AZ may complain about the lack of diesels in Honda/Acura's the numbers of diesels sold in personal vehicles is pretty low compared to the overall market. Only 32% of the all the German cars sold are diesel. If I was at Honda of America, I'd be reluctant too to certify a diesel for the Accord or Civic.

dom

Not enthusiasts' with wives who refuse to drive a stick. And in a car like you're describing, it would be insane not to offer some sort of AT. Just like IMO its insane not to offer one in the Si.

biker

Offering DI (or a 6AT) is a stretch for Honda so it's no surprise they will need to be pulled kicking/screaming into offering diesels in the US.