winstrolvtec

Differentiation is another discussion altogether and can be largely subjective but the point about rebadge is as literal as the word can be, re-badged because they are mostly Nissans where they come from.

Really you could argue that there is nothing to differentiate because they are Nissans with some being placed into a luxury line when they get here because they are more premium than the others. It's not that the Nissan has CVT and FWD and Infiniti has 7AT and RWD, instead it's Nissan offers all of that depending on the model. When it comes to our market both brands differentiate in their own way.

Acura is not really any different or better just because they have exclusive Acura models, I am not suggesting that, just pointing out what is technically a rebadge and what is not. Acuras are not except for the TSX (I4 specifically). Infinitis are, 4 of them to be exact, with excpetion to the FX which is an Infiniti exclusive (US, CA, EU), but has a shared platform, and the QX is now an exclusive as well but has it's own platform.

smarty666

If your going to count it that way then the rebadges of Infiniti would be a the G, EX, and M, that is 3 not 4. FX and QX are exclusive. I suspect that G will get its own platform in its next generation, especially considering the MB partnership and considering its Infiniti's bread and butter.

I count the same for Acura. RL is a rebadged Legend, TSX rebadged Accord, and TL well, technically not anymore, but it sure as hell looks like it could have been another rebadged Accord with its similar increase in size to the 8G Accord. If CSX is introduced that would make 3 for Acura as well.

My entire point initially was that I think its a bad idea for Acura to introduce the CSX below the TSX in that current iteration. It looks too much like a Honda Civic and thus the rebadge stuff would continue. Each car needs to have its own unique platform if they are ever to be taken seriously again in this country. They did it with the RDX and ZDX so hopefully the trend will continue with each new generation of the sedans.

Acura and Infiniti at least have begun making separate/unique platforms for their vehicles, I guess its just going to take time for it to get fully completed across the line-up.

smarty666

I don't see how differentiation can be subjective. The fact is that in this country, Infiniti's have much more differentiation than Nissan compared to the differentiation between Acura and Honda. Transmission and drive train have a huge amount to do with that, not everything but a lot. I'm not saying that Acura's do not have differences from their Honda counterparts but they are not as noticeable as Infiniti. I've got vehicles from both makes so I test drove Honda/Acura and Nissan/Infiniti back to back and I can tell you the difference was more noticeable between Nissan and Infiniti then it was for Honda and Acura, especially in the driving ability/character.

Please tell me what Nissan models in the country offer a 7spd auto paired with a RWD? I'd love to know what model your talking about. There isn't one. Only way you get RWD with Nissan is with a 370z or GT-R and you know how much the latter is . Just like, you can't find a FWD or CVT Infiniti model on the market can you? No, I didn't think so.

There is absolutely no reason on earth why you can get a 6spd auto in a Toyota Camry but only a 5spd auto in a TL at this point. One car is much more money then the other and one has much more sporty pretensions/characteristics then the other. Yes, the TL is going to get it for 2012 but it should of had that minimum at the 4G redesign back at the end of 2008 . If anything, Acura should be on 7spds at the minimum right now while Honda puts in 6spds. But they are not. They are just beginning to introduce 6spds at the same time Honda is and they should be ahead of Honda considering they are suppose to be such a technology oriented/savy company. If you think about it, all the other luxury companies are on 7 or 8 spd autos while their mainstream counterparts are on 6spds or CVTs.

You can make the argument that rebadging and differentiation are two different things but I think its a lack of enough differentiation that adds to the rebadge perception between Honda and Acura that you hear a lot of pro-German luxury people throw in our face time after time.

winstrolvtec

However you want to look at it, 4 if you count the coupe and sedan seperate or 3 if you don't. For the record, the 2011 RL is technically an exclusive, it used to be a Honda but is getting further updates and features that the Legend never offered for 2011 being that it's no longer in production in Japan.

The TL is more exclusive than the US Accord IMO as that is rebadged and sold in Japan as an Inspire but it is NA based and designed and built instead like the TL has been since the 2nd gen.

Either way doesn't matter, it's not a contest, you have to judge the actual final product IMO and not get hung up on that stuff. Some of the best cars ever have shared platforms, it shouldn't necessarily take away from anything.

Acura probably won't use the CSX, they are rumored to be planning a new car built from the new upcoming civic to place below the TSX. I disagree on this area because it's a pre-entry level vehicle, it's doesn't need to be anything more than a premium civic. The majority of the best selling cars from Acura, Infiniti and Lexus (among others) have been and are based on global platforms used in the mainstream line as well.

I am not against seperate platform by any means, but I don't think anything is wrong with sharing when it's more than adequate for the application. The MDX is a semi rugged mid sized SUV so in the latest generation's case, it was called for. In the case of a new flagship sedan or sports car then it is also called for but for pre-entry and entry level and even a cheaper mid level alternative, it is fine, at times they even exceed those that offer seperate platforms on a number of levels and are much cheaper because of it.

SSFTSX

Thats the problem. You simply dont understand the concept of Premium. It is the intellect built into the car as a whole that make it premium not sum of its parts.
For example USDM Accord I-4 EX 0-100mph time is 4 seconds slower than TSX. despite having only 10 bhp difference and TSX weighing 50 to 100lbs heavier. that gap increases with higher the speed goes.

It is the low tier brands like Infiniti/Hyundai that differentiate through parts.
In EU VW has practically same technology interms of engines and transmission & even handling as Audi but Audi is premium brand.

Acura FWD handles much better than Honda FWD. Acura has better NVH levels and much stronger performance despite Acura being heavier cars than Honda.

winstrolvtec

It's subjective because it's your opinion and it's not factual when someone else has a different opinion of that. Differentiation can be represented in a number of different ways. Here, Infiniti is very distinct from Nissan but that isn't a big deal to me because more than half the lineup is a Nissan where it comes from and in other parts of the world.

If I am to buy one it's because it's a good product as it is, not because of the different name they put on it. Seperating the RWD, V8 and 7AT cars is one form of differentiation, and Acura offering more exclusive models is another on it's own. When it comes to which is more differentiated, it depends on which method of doing so appeals to the individual better.

The point is the majority of those models that are 7AT and RWD are really Nissans, they only put a new badge on it. A different platform use and an exclusive model is different than a rebadge. That's all I am saying.

That's a differnt discussion altogether.

Well when it comes to perception it's usually very different than reality. You can form a perception around something being so very distinct and different but if it really isn't, and it truly is a rebadge, than no matter what perception suggests, it is still a rebadge. Just like you can make an exclusive model but there is not enough differentiation and people still think it's a rebadge, even when it's not.

Being a rebadge or sharing a platform doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing and it usually isn't, often times it makes for better and cheaper product at the same time. I don't care what the German faithful have to say, most have to make up these irrelevant points to try to justify what it is they actaully spend so much more money on, which they don't even know or realize.

smarty666

[quote=winstrolvtec;12406804]Here, Infiniti is very distinct from Nissan but that isn't a big deal to me because more than half the lineup is a Nissan where it comes from and in other parts of the world.

If I am to buy one it's because it's a good product as it is, not because of the different name they put on it. Seperating the RWD, V8 and 7AT cars is one form of differentiation, and Acura offering more exclusive models is another on it's own. When it comes to which is more differentiated, it depends on which method of doing so appeals to the individual better.[quote]

You completely contradicted yourself. You say that the difference between Nissan and Infiniti here is no big deal to you b/c most Infiniti's are just Nissan's somewhere else (implying that you don't really give them much thought b/c they are really just glorified Nissans), thus focusing on the name, yet you go on to say a sentence later you'd get a car if you think it was a good product regardless of the name on it, yet that is not what you said or were implying by the statement a sentence earlier.

[quote]The point is the majority of those models that are 7AT and RWD are really Nissans, they only put a new badge on it. A different platform use and an exclusive model is different than a rebadge. That's all I am saying.[quote]

This is the problem. Your using the same tired old argument that German luxury owners do for Acura against Infiniti. 7AT and RWD is not really a Nissan b/c no Nissan HERE offers it. Who gives a crap what the car market is in another country. You can't get that in a Nissan here and that is all that matters. We don't have access to cars in the Japanese market, Chinese market, etc etc so what difference does it make what its is in another country to which we have no access to. It doesn't. All I'm concerned about what the US market and our options here are.

The Accord is sold here so we have access to its if we wanted to purchase it. I want the TSX to get its own unique platform thus distancing itself from Honda even further. I agree with you that I hope that Acura scraps the CSX idea and bring about a whole new entry-level model below the TSX. I do not agree that it should be based on the Civic. If I wanted a Civic I'd get a Civic. If I'm shopping Acura, no matter what model, I want a Acura, not a Civic in disguise.

[quote]That's a differnt discussion altogether.[quote]

No not really. Because if your talking about exclusive models, then how it is exclusive when it shares similar drivetrain set-up, feature options, and transmission? It isn't. I mean the Accord, TL, TSX, Odyssey, and I'm forgetting one or two more all share a mid-size Honda global platform.

Unless they change the body style and make significant changes to the RL for 2011, then its still a rebaged Legend. Little add ons and extra features is not going to really help that vehicle or change that fact its rebadged no matter how you try to paint it. It sells terribly and needs to be completely redone from the ground up. If, platform, drivetrain, transmission, etc are not changing for 2011 then the changes are not significant enough to make it a unique, exclusive model from the Legend.

I can see though how you woudl think the TL is exclusive. The majority find it ugly (grill and rear end mostly) or at least not great in the looks department, helping to contribute to its lack luster sales performance thus making less on the road and more exclusive for the people who have one. Problem is for the TL, that exclusive nature is not a positive in most of the luxury world right now for the 4G. I don't think that is going to change till we get the 5G hopefully if Acura plays its cards right. It was sad it had to end with the 3G.

Personally, I can think of several ways Acura could have made it self more exclusive then trying the corporate shield grill route in order to try and achieve that.

smarty666

That is the problem. You simply don't comprehend the concept of Premium. It is the intellect built into a car as a whole that make it premium not sum of its parts.

It is the lower tier brands like Acura/Toyota/Chevrolet that differentiate through parts.

Nissan RWD handles much better than Nissan FWD. Infiniti has better NVH levels and much stronger performance despite being heavier cars than Nissan.

smarty666

Well Lexus still has a good deal of FWD in their line-up but I understand what you mean. If anyone is more proof of a successful balance like that is Nissan/Infiniti. Infiniti decided many years ago to only offer RWD in a further attempt to differentiate themselves from Nissan.

Problem is, Acura seems to have some ill conceived notion that if any of their products have RWD or a V8, etc it is going to somehow ruin their reputation.

I agree with you. I'm not saying they have to get rid of FWD drive completely, but at least offer 2 or 3 things with RWD so some of us don't have to go off to Infiniti, BMW, or Audi to get it!

SSFTSX

Infiniti does not handle much better than Nissan on same Standard suspension. Just look at M37 handling and G37 without sport. and neither Infiniti has any advantage over Maxima in NVH.
Acura on standard FWD suspension handle much better than FWD Honda Accord.
It is pointless to create RWD suspension for such small volume. that is the reason for Nissan being bankrupt and finally has to share parts with Renault/MB.

In EU you get most of expensive options like LKAS/CMBS/ACC/sport suspension/tinted glass that you normaly get in ZDX/RL in Honda Car. The car was never meant to be affordable.

winstrolvtec

What I am saying is that the title distinction is no big deal because I know most of the lineup is really Nissan, it doesn't matter what they call it or what the perception is, and the same holds true for Acura and Honda, Toyota and Lexus. To me they are all really one in the same and it doesn't matter. I focus on the product not the logo, that shouldn't matter.

Again my point is they are really one in the same no matter how you slice it. I simply wanted to clarify what technically constitutes a rebadge in both automakers and what doesn't and what their brand distinction differences are in addition to that. I do not have the same neagative connotation attached to the word as most do.

If you can't find a reason to purchase a TSX or TL over an Accord or a Maxima over an Altima, or a G coupe over an Altima coupe or an ES over a camry, etc, etc, then I don't know what to tell you.

When you think about it, for Acura to develop it's own platform for the TSX or the upcoming sub model and for it to be almost entirely the same as what Honda Japan already came up with for their Accord and civic platforms then there is no point unless they want to go RWD. The have SH so there is no need, I would rather see them add SH and the 3.7L to the TSX and call it a day.

I think you are putting too much into the whole platform thing. I see no advantages other than one getting to say it has it's own platform now like MB and BMW, while watching the price go up and then people bitch about that and then don't buy as many and they may have to discontiue it or worse, the brand goes under. Some luxury brands simply don't have a basic line and a premium line, otherwise they would share too. Look at VAG with Audi and VW.

If Acura had to produce a new platform for either of those vehicles then they wouldn't even bother making them. The idea is low cost production for maximum profits and inexpensive products for the consumer in turn. Sure, BMW got all crazy with V8, RWD, M variants, distinct platforms, which is everything an enthusiast could ask for but they barely posted a profit in 09.

It's all still a busniess at the end of the day. Every company produces what they feel their customers want, what they can sell and make money on and that is a good thing otherwise we would all be driving the same cars. If a brand doesn't make what I want, I buy it from whoever does.

Like TSX alluded to, it's actually a good post. It is the intellect, attention, and detail built into the brand or the luxury divsion as a whole that makes them distinct, not sum of its parts. It's not so much about the parts and platforms sharing that make it distinct, although it could be but doesn't have to be. Just because Acura does not chose to distinguish itself from Honda by platform and parts does not mean they are any less distinct as a luxury division than anyone else.

If Infiniti uses the MB platforms in the future, it is still an exclusive Nissan or Infiniti product not a Mercedes or Chrysler. MB, BMW, Audi like to use many 3rd party parts from companies like Bosch and ZF but that does not mean the car is made by either of those companies. A lot of the times these same exact parts end up in different cars, they still are used and incorported differnetly to produce a very different product and experience.

It's not rebadged if there is no rebadging taking place anymore. It is only built as the RL and as an Acura. I didn't say they had to be overly distinct just be exclusive, there is a difference. The car is now exclusive to Acura and not Honda anywhere else, that is the whole point and concept. There is a difference between distinct or differentiated, and exclusive.

I don't really see how personal outlooks on car brands has too much to do with the original discussion of rebadged products in Acura compared to Infiniti but I think we would all do things differently with everything, it doesn't stop at cars but unfortunately that is not the business we are in and probably for good reasons.

Just because Infiniti does something differently and that is more appealing to you does not mean Acura should change what they do. I stratch my head as much as the next guy when it comes to a few areas and decisions but they are not the only brand raising concerns. It appears others like Infiniti and Audi still have more work to do than Acura.

phile

it was starting to get better when people realized how useless it was arguing with him, and they started ignoring him, and now you just re-started the cycle.

dom

This post defines why everyone should have him on ignore. In fact, I may formally ask for it to become a default setting.

krio

^^great idea...

Shift_Acura

1. There are only 3 sedans in the entire lineup. Are you suggesting to make all or 2/3 of them RWD?

Because that would increase sales?
Or maybe it would cost the company millions of dollars and no increase in sales?

2. Nobody gets an Audi for its RWD capabilities.

3. Do some more research on Nissan, they rebadge just as much as any other brand.

4. Badge Engineering is a very effective method in saving money/resources. Like I said on the other thread, these rebadged and outdated Honda's with beaks are still outselling Infiniti

pttl

phile

:gheywave::gheyhug:

Hapa DC5

SSFTSX

THere are alot more features in Euro Accord Type S

Referigerated glove box
blue ambient footwell lighting like the new BMW/Audis
rain sensing wipers
heat obsorbent glass.
rear vents
front, rear, corner parking sensors and headlight washer
adjustable headlight height
high security integrated audio
alloy gear knob
allumiium pedals
power folding door mirrors
8 way power assist for driver & passenger.
Tighter turning circle on standard 18inch rims.
smoked headlights

these are over the top of LKAS/ACC/CMBS.










I havent seen any other Honda/Acura with that dark glass as standard.

Hapa DC5

Acura still builds great cars. Just a lil thick and butterfaced nowadays. They drive great!

She may have had a few kids or put on some weight from stress, but you have a hard time forgetting she's that sorority girl you bedded back in the day. You reconnect and once you're in her, she still feels great.

Shift_Acura

lol

ThermonMermon

acura couldnt be making more wrong decisions. zdx, now a reintroduced coupe? are they retarded? their sedan sales are plummeting! yet they continue to throw good money after bad. they should spend less time developing low volume cars, and more time reinventing their struggling sedan money makers. they have way too much focus on a big dollar marketing campaign and niche cars. ive never witnessed such unproductive decisions from a mainstream car company. its like they are throwing their last few dollars into the fire. i think it's time for executive replacements across the board before the company dies an early death.

smarty666

While I can't really argue with your reasoning behind separate platforms from a business/financial standpoint, there is more to life then making money and your going to spend the rest of your time on here explaining that reasoning to the BMW and MB people. I agree with them to a point, Acura's line-up and choices are limited and there is no reason they can't offer somethings. That doesn't mean the rest of the line-up is going to be scarred or ruin. In fact it should elevate Acura's view and appeal in the luxury market.

[/quote]Like TSX alluded to, it's actually a good post. It is the intellect, attention, and detail built into the brand or the luxury divsion as a whole that makes them distinct, not sum of its parts. It's not so much about the parts and platforms sharing that make it distinct, although it could be but doesn't have to be. Just because Acura does not chose to distinguish itself from Honda by platform and parts does not mean they are any less distinct as a luxury division than anyone else.[/quote]

I agree with that to a point, and I would agree that Acura was like that before the 2009 model year, but I don't really see as much making them distinct anymore from the rest of the luxury companies. Accept for a slight advantage in reliability compared to others, there is nothing wowing me to go back like there like there was pre 2009. Their line-up is very limited (ie no RWD, coupes, fuel efficient engines or models), vehicles that cost less having luxury features many Acura models lack, and you don't get as much standard at a huge price advantage like you used to. (For instance, you have to get expensive tech package to get premium/perforated leather and ELS audio system, both of which were standard before among other things). Those were the things that used to set Acura a part from companies like Lexus, MB, and BMW and the lack there of now is really starting to add up for me and many other Acura people.

[/quote]It's not rebadged if there is no rebadging taking place anymore. It is only built as the RL and as an Acura. I didn't say they had to be overly distinct just be exclusive, there is a difference. The car is now exclusive to Acura and not Honda anywhere else, that is the whole point and concept. There is a difference between distinct or differentiated, and exclusive.[/quote]

Do not agree at all with that. Until RL is completely redone its a rebadged Legend. Your trying to make exceptions and semantics out of it. The current RL looks just like a Legend, it just has an A on its grill rather than a H. Makes no difference the Legend is not being made anymore, it still looks exactly alike.

[/quote]Just because Infiniti does something differently and that is more appealing to you does not mean Acura should change what they do. I stratch my head as much as the next guy when it comes to a few areas and decisions but they are not the only brand raising concerns. It appears others like Infiniti and Audi still have more work to do than Acura.

Audi unfortunately of the 3 German makes still has the reliability issues to contend with among others things to help improve itself. Infiniti is not perfect and I'm not trying to make it out that it is, but they have come a much longer way and much quicker than Acura has. They have a much more diverse line-up with options and choices then Acura has, especially with the intro of the G25 and they have plans to expand the line-up. There biggest critism has always been fuel efficiency and if you notice that the last 3 years, the mpg on their sedans have increase 1 mpg each year jusy by refining engine/transmission. They are introducing a hybrid into the M next year and are really taking strides to address the mpg issue.

Acura on the other hand, and Honda for that matter, have been in sort of stagnation and complacent nature the last 2 years. Not that much changed with the new generation of their products, no major new features, transmissions, mpg, etc etc. They banked on their reputation for reliability and quality to sustain them and that is not enough anymore.

They need much more innovation and find some way to have a big advantage over their luxury competition again. Maybe they could do this with fuel efficient/high powered 4cyl and 6cyl engines or offering those luxury sedan features they lack now with limited price increase so you again have that price advantage. The list could go on and on. Offering coupes and a convertible would be nice and I'm not saying they have to be RWD/V8 but at least offering a coupe is a step in the right direction.

smarty666

No that is not what I suggested. I said offer 2 or 3 things with RWD, that doesn't mean all the sedans have to become RWD. How about offering 1 in RWD, and offer a new coupe with RWD?

I don't understand your fear about the RWD offering and the its going to cost them so much money. You sound like an Acura exec now. They are the only lux make that does not offer it and thus are losing sales to the others who do b/c if that is something people are looking for, they have to automatically exclude Acura. So please, don't tell me that is not losing them sales. If Acura is so great in innovation and technology as you and others suggest, then there is not reason why they could not make a competitive sport coupe to compete with the best, especially if it could get excellent mpg and technology out of it. That could be Acura's advantage over the others.

Now the Infiniti has a proper entry-level model to the IS and TSX, we will see if they still sell less then Acura. If it is sold and marketed well, Infiniti could match Acura in sales considering Acura has only been selling typically 2-3k more units per month than Infiniti which is not that much.

SSFTSX

ZDX is not some separate category. it is using same MDX technology and engine but ride height is lower so it is little faster and handles better.
it is like considering 4 door coupe of the same thing.
just like BMW 3 series coupe is lower than 3 series sedan.
Acura hasnt ventured into new categories. Acura has alot more potential than other brands to increase sales.
Acura build quality is second to none. Infact Euro Accord on which TSX is based has won several countries car of the year award and highest reliability score in history of a survey in Europe.
Honda built world best handling FWD sedans just look Euro Accord Type S & Civic Type R. I am sure new Sub TSX would be best in category.

SSFTSX

That is your assumption that Acura is losing sales because of lack of RWD. It is not.
Separate RWD platform will raise the price of Acura vehicles and Acura will start losing sales.
Better strategy is use SH-AWD for performance oriented buyers across the line up and FWD for buyers who are looking at ES/RX/A3/HS/Mini Cooper type vehicles.

Acura just lacks new engines/transmission for fuel economy/performance and there is lack of options across the lineup. like Cooled seats in TSX.
THis G25 will start cannibalizing G37 sales. it is not adding to anything.

smarty666

That is your assumption that Acura is not losing sales because of lack of RWD. It is not. Separate RWD platform will not raise price of Acura vehicles and Acura will not start losing sales if done and implemented correctly. Better strategy is to offer SH-AWD on all models if people want the choice to have AWD.

If incentives are kept similar to G37 then G25 will not start cannibalizing G37 sales. it is adding to something that wasn't there before.

winstrolvtec

I agree but that is not how they chose to do business so it is what it is. The orginal discussion was in regards to what is or isn't rebadge and what shares a platform in the Acura and Infiniti line. Outside of that everybody has their opinion but I not overly concernd that part of the discussion.

There lineup is limited and that is the reason they don't have the top three sales but they do very well for what they do have and they are working towards that but it will be at their pace so until then, we can enjoy what they do make or what other brands offer instead. Acura tends to have a superior resale, value and crash testing in addition to their standard or reliability.

It's semantics, a yes and no. It is and it isn't, maybe half a of one.

They have come a long way depending on the criteria and also haven't depending on the criteria, the same is true for Acura. You have to keep in mind Acura has not needed to make any drastic changes and that is why they are where they are no matter how good or bad, but Infiniti on the other hand has had too. They also don't have or take the identity of a Japanese BMW, their methods reflect more of Audi, neither is better or worse just diferent.

I believe the Acura trademarks are still serving them very well since everyone seems to not like a single design and has something negative to say about the brand and models but they keep selling at the same rate and still hold the 5th best selling luxury brand title which also happens to be a close and consitent 4th with Caddy to be just under the top three.

Everyone wants to see more from ever brand but part of what makes Acura great (and bad) is their conservative nature so they will make changes as needed, when the investment can prove a return, and when they feel it makes the most sense.

smarty666

You admit their lineup is limited but then say they do well with what they have. Their drop in sales over the last few years would incline to say differently. Superior resale, value, and reliability is not enough any more in this business when it comes to both Honda and Acura. Other companies are offering the same or very similar levels of all those areas. They need something more than that to make them stand out in the pack again.

I cannot find anything great about their conservative and behind-the-times attitude toward their line-up and its really beginning to get old. You can say what you want about Infiniti but them and other companies did not have the sales decline that Acura did and much better improvement in sales compared to Acura during the recovery.

I just can not believe how many people are complacent with the way Acura runs their business and line-up. I do not know what more Acura needs to get slapped in the face to wake up and make some changes and add more options to their line-up. The recession has been officially declared over, car sales have improved, now seems like the right time, not procrastinating and waiting for a few more years. RL is a great example of this. Now is the time to completely gut and make a proper luxury level flagship sedan for Acura.

SSFTSX

separate platform will not raise the price thats why whole world is doing platform sharing.
G25 is not adding something to G37 rather it is the same stale design. It will be like offering 4cylinder Accord engine in TL. I doubt 4cylinder TL wil have same sales as TSX 4cylinder. There is limit for customers for every design. Infiniti is going over the top of that by offering
Coupe, 2 engines, AWD etc.

smarty666

yes, separate platform will raise the price thats why whole world is not doing platform sharing. G25 is adding something to G37 rather it is the same design only cheaper. It would be like offering 4cylinder Altima engine in G37. I doubt 4cyl G37 would have same sales success that a G25 V6. There is limit for customers for every design. Acura is not even meeting mid way by lack of offering a coupe, 2 engines, and AWD.

Shift_Acura

Buick, Saab, Volvo, Audi, Acura what do they all have in common?

What innovation and tech are you talking about? I didnt say anything about that?

RWD does not equal sales. Even IF they came out with a RWD platform with a new engine AND a coupe AND their sales went up that does not necessarily equate to higher earnings for the company since it would take a much higher initial investment.

Who wouldn't want a RWD coupe? But we are not getting one. The company will make decisions based on what they think will profit the company.

That is how I look at it from a business stand point. Personally I think Honda/Acura sucks rite now. They have nothing exciting to offer.

And I agree with you about Infiniti having better differentiation with Nissan than Acura does with Honda (In North America). They're lineup is much more diverse than Acura. Not to mention the fact that they offer many more features and more powerful engines.

Shift_Acura

A brand new S2000 used to cost $53,000 in Canada.
I dont even want to know how much a new Honda RWD coupe would cost here

smarty666

It doesn't even have to be a coupe with RWD. It could be one with SH-AWD. I really don't care as long as its a coupe offering that has good handling, sporty looks. etc.

I do agree though, Acura has no intention of going that direction at least not anytime in the next few years so people would have to look else where. Such a shame to say the least.

SSFTSX

whole world is not doing platform sharing? so why Nissan accepts command from Renault?. why Ford Mondeo top diesel engine is developed wtih Citroen-Peugeut.
Acura strategy is very successful of rebadging Hondas. as it was only large maker to boost profit in sever recession.

They have tested GT version of Accord. It is pretty close to RWD Germans. The only reason Type S is not tested because it will embrass the so called RWD cars
.
It is not just handling and steering but overall ride quality of comfort and Exceoption build quality for longetivity. YOur basically giving examples of car brands that are build a piece of trash like Nissan.


BMW has compromise between handling and ride. Honda does not.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

That is your opinion, and most people would say you're full of bullshit.

SSFTSX

These are not my opinion. It is hard numbers on the tests.
No standard BMW can pull even 0.88g let alone 0.9g on standard suspension.
Honda Euro Accord has far superior ride to BMW 3 series. Just the seat comfort level is on different level.
BMW 5 series is total flop in handling when you compare it to TL-SH-AWD. it is not just handling but built quality of wear and tear of suspension.
see the Automobile Mag long term update than in less than six months the car is pretty much done with tires.

Costco

I can totally prove that he's wrong, but I'm not going to. If it were anyone else...

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Gs alone do NOT determine which car handles better you noob.

You have NOTHING to back up the wear and tear part of the suspension.

Stop lying. Every time you post you show nothing but ignorance and manipulation of facts coupled with opinions based on hearsay.

SSFTSX

It is not opinion. If TL-SH-AWD or Euro Accord Type S ever meet BMW in Europe it will be embrassment to whole RWD dogma.
TL/Euro Accord Type S will provide superior handling and ride on standard 18inch than any BMW.