Acura: Development and Technology News
05-08-2009 | 05:48 PM
#1721
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,202
Likes: 1,162
From: YVR
I still remembered that the Lexus LS400 launched a year later was selling for ~ $40K. This V8 RWD sedan was the signature to Lexus' success to become a Tier-1 luxury brand. That was 20 years ago. Fast forward 20 years, and Acura still doesn't have a single V8 RWD sedan, and is still getting stuck as a entry-level luxury brand.
05-08-2009 | 06:29 PM
#1722
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,802
Likes: 1,012
As for V8 RWD. Um Yeah, I know that Acura doesn't have one. But that is not really relevant to what we were talking about with regards to viewing product with rose colored glasses.
05-09-2009 | 03:21 AM
#1723
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
So what is TMV than? Why one car on average more expensive than the other by $10K and not even with Six cylinder engine.
0.9 to 2.9% harld make differnce. May be few dollars a month. No one makes $40K decision for such small difference unless a car company gives 84months loans.
0.9 to 2.9% harld make differnce. May be few dollars a month. No one makes $40K decision for such small difference unless a car company gives 84months loans.
If you just do it simply, for a $40000 car, at 0.9%, you pay about $360 in interest, if interest rate is at 2.9%, you pay $1160. Again, this is only a very simple and conservative method, and ignores the TVM and some other factors that will make the difference even larger. And like I said, it's not a huge difference, but things like this is enough to lure some more customers.
05-09-2009 | 03:43 AM
#1724
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
Because one car is overpriced, while the other one is not?
If you just do it simply, for a $40000 car, at 0.9%, you pay about $360 in interest, if interest rate is at 2.9%, you pay $1160. Again, this is only a very simple and conservative method, and ignores the TVM and some other factors that will make the difference even larger. And like I said, it's not a huge difference, but things like this is enough to lure some more customers.
If you just do it simply, for a $40000 car, at 0.9%, you pay about $360 in interest, if interest rate is at 2.9%, you pay $1160. Again, this is only a very simple and conservative method, and ignores the TVM and some other factors that will make the difference even larger. And like I said, it's not a huge difference, but things like this is enough to lure some more customers.
05-09-2009 | 06:15 AM
#1725
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,802
Likes: 1,012
You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because the car costs 45K does not mean that the buyer isn't pinching every penny. Some of these people are the most nit-picky clients we have. I'm not passing judgment on this, as it is every clients right to do so (or not to do so). But you are dead wrong if you think a few hundred dollars doesn't matter. Wrong, wrong, wrong, yet again.
05-09-2009 | 08:13 AM
#1726
Go Big Blue!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 5
From: Orlando, FLA
^^^ Agree. Reality is that other circumstances and personality are what dictate what $ amount matters. Some people see it as a game and aren't happy leaving any money on the table (usually younger buyers). Others are just looking for a fair deal and happy with the salesman making a buck on the deal. Plus lets remember many people buying a $45k car realistically should be buying a $25k car. For them every penny matters because they'll be eating p&j sandwiches every day to make the payment
05-09-2009 | 11:36 AM
#1727
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because the car costs 45K does not mean that the buyer isn't pinching every penny. Some of these people are the most nit-picky clients we have. I'm not passing judgment on this, as it is every clients right to do so (or not to do so). But you are dead wrong if you think a few hundred dollars doesn't matter. Wrong, wrong, wrong, yet again.
You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura. 95% of Audi buyers have AWD while 20% of Acura buyers are AWD.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-s...guements-7299/
Audi has the wealthiest buyers on average in terms of income. They make the finest interiors in the entire auto industry and have done so for quite some time. Their awards for interior supremacy only help to further soldiify and justify this claim
05-09-2009 | 11:45 AM
#1728
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-s...guements-7299/
Audi has the wealthiest buyers on average in terms of income. They make the finest interiors in the entire auto industry and have done so for quite some time. Their awards for interior supremacy only help to further soldiify and justify this claim
Audi has the wealthiest buyers on average in terms of income. They make the finest interiors in the entire auto industry and have done so for quite some time. Their awards for interior supremacy only help to further soldiify and justify this claim
05-09-2009 | 12:04 PM
#1729
אני עומד עם ישראל
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,860
Likes: 810
From: Los Gatos, CA
The only car in Acura lineup with TMV of $45K is RL or Minivan MDX which is not even a SUV. These are mostly utility buyers. not a performance sedan with highly customized options.
You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura. 95% of Audi buyers have AWD while 20% of Acura buyers are AWD.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-s...guements-7299/
Audi has the wealthiest buyers on average in terms of income. They make the finest interiors in the entire auto industry and have done so for quite some time. Their awards for interior supremacy only help to further soldiify and justify this claim
You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura. 95% of Audi buyers have AWD while 20% of Acura buyers are AWD.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-s...guements-7299/
Audi has the wealthiest buyers on average in terms of income. They make the finest interiors in the entire auto industry and have done so for quite some time. Their awards for interior supremacy only help to further soldiify and justify this claim
05-09-2009 | 12:34 PM
#1730
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
MB has S and E class as significant %age those times.
http://images.forbes.com/adinfo/ForbesAutosMediaKit.pdf
Cars
Porsche $187,705
Mercedes-Benz $162,824
Jaguar $150,587
BMW $148,992
Lexus $141,355
Audi $153,746
Saab $134,315
Infiniti $128,753
Volvo $133,545
Acura $118,830
Average: $146,065
05-09-2009 | 12:45 PM
#1731
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
You sing Audi's praises quite a bit. I am just curious why you didn't end up with an A4 instead of your TSX? If a $40K four cylinder is out of your price range then I understand I wouldn't put that down for a 2.0T either. I love Audi's styling don't get me wrong, but you seem to be riding those nuts hard.
Others are just stating facts.
1. Audi is the only big luxury maker in profit for current quarter.
2. they sell the most expensive 4cylinder line up. 4cylinder and Tier-1 not mutually exclusive.
3. they are now segment leader in EU/China.
4. They sell the most AWD luxury vehicles.
5. They have the largest pipeline of new models coming up.
6. It is matter of time this reality will catch up in US market.
05-09-2009 | 02:32 PM
#1732
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,802
Likes: 1,012
All buyers are the same when it comes to negotiation and what they pay or don't pay. It does not matter what brand they are buying. People who are wealthy did no get that way by being foolish with their money.
05-09-2009 | 02:41 PM
#1733
אני עומד עם ישראל
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,860
Likes: 810
From: Los Gatos, CA
I am big supporter of TSX. It is the only tier-1 product in Acura line up. Excellent drag cd of 0.26 for its size with refined quiet ride.
Others are just stating facts.
1. Audi is the only big luxury maker in profit for current quarter.
2. they sell the most expensive 4cylinder line up. 4cylinder and Tier-1 not mutually exclusive.
3. they are now segment leader in EU/China.
4. They sell the most AWD luxury vehicles.
5. They have the largest pipeline of new models coming up.
6. It is matter of time this reality will catch up in US market.
Others are just stating facts.
1. Audi is the only big luxury maker in profit for current quarter.
2. they sell the most expensive 4cylinder line up. 4cylinder and Tier-1 not mutually exclusive.
3. they are now segment leader in EU/China.
4. They sell the most AWD luxury vehicles.
5. They have the largest pipeline of new models coming up.
6. It is matter of time this reality will catch up in US market.
05-09-2009 | 03:12 PM
#1734
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
Interest rates or method of financing has zero effect on my decision as it isnt alot of differnce.
my TSX isnt cheap either as it has 18 inch rim/Paint and & dent protection package for 4 years. let see what comes out for TSX MMC or Q5 diesel package.
05-09-2009 | 03:33 PM
#1735
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
For starter, I'd trust Colin more about that 0.9% vs 2.9% debate....he has been in the business for many years..he knows what people want.
I don't know why you said this, "You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura." when Colin didn't even mention Audi in the post you quoted.
I also don't know where you got this from, "20% of Acura buyers are AWD." A quick look at April sales and it says that Acura sold 5534 TL's and TSX's, and 3279 RDX, RL, and MDX. Do the math, and you will see that at least 37% of the buyers bought AWD Acuras. And yes, that's assuming ALL the TL's sold were FWD, which is far from truth. But that's enough to prove that your statement is wrong, as usual. May be it's true years before. But hello, welcome to 2009.
And you do realize that we all know Acura doesn't have the Tier-1 image right? That's what we have been talking about for a long time, and once again, the current Acura products are not Tier-1 cars. I thought that's pretty clear, but you seem to believe that we think Acura = Tier-1. Once again, no, we, or most of us, do not believe that.
I don't know why you said this, "You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura." when Colin didn't even mention Audi in the post you quoted.
I also don't know where you got this from, "20% of Acura buyers are AWD." A quick look at April sales and it says that Acura sold 5534 TL's and TSX's, and 3279 RDX, RL, and MDX. Do the math, and you will see that at least 37% of the buyers bought AWD Acuras. And yes, that's assuming ALL the TL's sold were FWD, which is far from truth. But that's enough to prove that your statement is wrong, as usual. May be it's true years before. But hello, welcome to 2009.
And you do realize that we all know Acura doesn't have the Tier-1 image right? That's what we have been talking about for a long time, and once again, the current Acura products are not Tier-1 cars. I thought that's pretty clear, but you seem to believe that we think Acura = Tier-1. Once again, no, we, or most of us, do not believe that.
05-09-2009 | 04:58 PM
#1736
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,202
Likes: 1,162
From: YVR
Yes, and this current financial crunch has inevitably flushed these people all out. Now only those who can really afford a $45K car buys a $45K car.
05-09-2009 | 05:04 PM
#1737
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,802
Likes: 1,012
05-09-2009 | 05:08 PM
#1738
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,202
Likes: 1,162
From: YVR
I am big supporter of TSX. It is the only tier-1 product in Acura line up. Excellent drag cd of 0.26 for its size with refined quiet ride.
Others are just stating facts.
1. Audi is the only big luxury maker in profit for current quarter.
2. they sell the most expensive 4cylinder line up. 4cylinder and Tier-1 not mutually exclusive.
3. they are now segment leader in EU/China.
4. They sell the most AWD luxury vehicles.
5. They have the largest pipeline of new models coming up.
6. It is matter of time this reality will catch up in US market.
Others are just stating facts.
1. Audi is the only big luxury maker in profit for current quarter.
2. they sell the most expensive 4cylinder line up. 4cylinder and Tier-1 not mutually exclusive.
3. they are now segment leader in EU/China.
4. They sell the most AWD luxury vehicles.
5. They have the largest pipeline of new models coming up.
6. It is matter of time this reality will catch up in US market.
In addition, the Audi R8 has given much boost to the Audi brand image. But Acura ? Why on earth did you axe the NSX-replacement for the much needed boost to it's dangling brand image.
05-09-2009 | 05:15 PM
#1739
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
The only thing matters in sales of luxury vehciles is 0.9% financing
I don't know why you said this, "You are mistaken that Audi buyers are the same as Acura." when Colin didn't even mention Audi in the post you quoted.
I also don't know where you got this from, "20% of Acura buyers are AWD." A quick look at April sales and it says that Acura sold 5534 TL's and TSX's, and 3279 RDX, RL, and MDX. Do the math, and you will see that at least 37% of the buyers bought AWD Acuras. And yes, that's assuming ALL the TL's sold were FWD, which is far from truth. But that's enough to prove that your statement is wrong, as usual. May be it's true years before. But hello, welcome to 2009.
And you do realize that we all know Acura doesn't have the Tier-1 image right? That's what we have been talking about for a long time, and once again, the current Acura products are not Tier-1 cars. I thought that's pretty clear, but you seem to believe that we think Acura = Tier-1. Once again, no, we, or most of us, do not believe that.
05-10-2009 | 12:02 AM
#1740
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
surely it was opinion. It is survey from 2007. with data gathering from prior years. SUV not included as Audi didnot had SUV.
MB has S and E class as significant %age those times.
http://images.forbes.com/adinfo/ForbesAutosMediaKit.pdf
Cars
Porsche $187,705
Mercedes-Benz $162,824
Jaguar $150,587
BMW $148,992
Lexus $141,355
Audi $153,746
Saab $134,315
Infiniti $128,753
Volvo $133,545
Acura $118,830
Average: $146,065
MB has S and E class as significant %age those times.
http://images.forbes.com/adinfo/ForbesAutosMediaKit.pdf
Cars
Porsche $187,705
Mercedes-Benz $162,824
Jaguar $150,587
BMW $148,992
Lexus $141,355
Audi $153,746
Saab $134,315
Infiniti $128,753
Volvo $133,545
Acura $118,830
Average: $146,065
Wow, this list is very interesting; assuming these are income averages and new car sales, it shows how most Americans live -or were living- beyond their means.
And I agree, regardless of what you see in the movies, wealthy people who can really afford a >$45K car are usually more picky money-wise, that's why they have money to begin with.
05-10-2009 | 01:13 AM
#1741
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
Wow, this list is very interesting; assuming these are income averages and new car sales, it shows how most Americans live -or were living- beyond their means.
And I agree, regardless of what you see in the movies, wealthy people who can really afford a >$45K car are usually more picky money-wise, that's why they have money to begin with.
And I agree, regardless of what you see in the movies, wealthy people who can really afford a >$45K car are usually more picky money-wise, that's why they have money to begin with.
It is high performance and unique features comparision with similar brand. They guy is not even considering a MB product.
TL performance and size is of SUV not of sport sedan. It can only be shoped against lexus ES
14% dicount on $50K product without options is $7K & add the cost of option. u go up to $50k again.
So it does not even matter if there is 0.9% financing as the other product is in $10K range less.
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Content/Ro...r_test_Audi_S4
I was originally planning to buy an E90 V8 BMW M3, but after test-driving the M3 and the 335i I decided that I couldn’t justify the 50% price premium over the 335i.
About a week before I was ready to order the 335i I read an article about the forthcoming Audi S4. I decided to wait for S4 pricing before ordering the 335i.
When Audi announced the S4 UK pricing at £34 255, more than £3 000 cheaper than the B7 S4 and £580 below BMWs E90 335i M Sport, I almost couldn’t believe my eyes as the B8 S4 is faster than both of them and has a higher standard spec than the Bimmer.
The S4 also has a number of options that I liked that were not available on the 335i sedan, most notably the 7-speed dual-clutch transmission (amazingly almost £200 cheaper than a BMW auto box), the super sport seats, the sport differential and the electronic damper control that makes riding around on 19-inch wheels bearable.
Pricing got even better as I managed to negotiate a credit-crunch-sized 14% discount, making the asking price less than £30 000 before optional extras.
To answer my original question: Yes, it’s better than a 335i, the Audi S4 is the new benchmark in this category. Why would you pay more for less performance and a lower spec? I can’t wait to see what Audi do with the B8 RS4/RS5.
I was originally planning to buy an E90 V8 BMW M3, but after test-driving the M3 and the 335i I decided that I couldn’t justify the 50% price premium over the 335i.
About a week before I was ready to order the 335i I read an article about the forthcoming Audi S4. I decided to wait for S4 pricing before ordering the 335i.
When Audi announced the S4 UK pricing at £34 255, more than £3 000 cheaper than the B7 S4 and £580 below BMWs E90 335i M Sport, I almost couldn’t believe my eyes as the B8 S4 is faster than both of them and has a higher standard spec than the Bimmer.
The S4 also has a number of options that I liked that were not available on the 335i sedan, most notably the 7-speed dual-clutch transmission (amazingly almost £200 cheaper than a BMW auto box), the super sport seats, the sport differential and the electronic damper control that makes riding around on 19-inch wheels bearable.
Pricing got even better as I managed to negotiate a credit-crunch-sized 14% discount, making the asking price less than £30 000 before optional extras.
To answer my original question: Yes, it’s better than a 335i, the Audi S4 is the new benchmark in this category. Why would you pay more for less performance and a lower spec? I can’t wait to see what Audi do with the B8 RS4/RS5.
05-10-2009 | 01:45 AM
#1742
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
so you would buy a $45K TMV car with 0.9% interest rate but not (TL) with 2.9% interest rate for $35K TMV. Just for pure financial point of view it does not make sense unless you have that 84 month loan. I am not even going into subjective considerations. like Style, size, performance, options, insurance, maintaiannce, income values of demogrphic.
The only thing matters in sales of luxury vehciles is 0.9% financing
He is trying to extrapolate from Acura sales experiance other luxury brands.
Look at long term trends. current sales collapse make number distorted.
I merely stating that 6 or 8 cylinders are not alone necessary to be Tier-1.
The only thing matters in sales of luxury vehciles is 0.9% financing
He is trying to extrapolate from Acura sales experiance other luxury brands.
Look at long term trends. current sales collapse make number distorted.
I merely stating that 6 or 8 cylinders are not alone necessary to be Tier-1.
One of the many things that matters in sales of luxury vehicles at this point of time is low interest rate financing.
Long term trends? In 2000, Acura didn't sell a single AWD vehicle. And in 2009 April at least 37% of the vehicles sold were AWD. And you are right, current sales collapse make numbers distorted. In fact, back in April 2008, Acura sold at least 6132 AWD cars, out of 13025 vehicles sold, or 47% sold were AWD vehicles for Acura in April 2008. So yup, you are right, there's a steady growth of AWD-equipped Acura vehicles up until last year, then the economy tanked, and that number also went down.
05-10-2009 | 10:14 AM
#1743
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
Long term trends? In 2000, Acura didn't sell a single AWD vehicle. And in 2009 April at least 37% of the vehicles sold were AWD. And you are right, current sales collapse make numbers distorted. In fact, back in April 2008, Acura sold at least 6132 AWD cars, out of 13025 vehicles sold, or 47% sold were AWD vehicles for Acura in April 2008. So yup, you are right, there's a steady growth of AWD-equipped Acura vehicles up until last year, then the economy tanked, and that number also went down.
05-10-2009 | 12:43 PM
#1744
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_10882187", true); </SCRIPT>
05-10-2009 | 02:02 PM
#1745
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,802
Likes: 1,012
1) Audi and VW are great and can do now wrong (ignores reliability ratings and sales numbers)
2) Acura sucks at everything and is not Tier 1 (With one exception)
3) Exception: The Acura TSX (his car) is the only Tier 1 Acura (ignores that Acura has stated that they are not there yet)
Like a Boy in a Bubble!
05-25-2009 | 02:02 PM
#1748
2010 Acura coupe
From Autoblog:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/25/r...2010/#comments
Rumor on two continents – Germany in Auto Motor und Sport and Japan in Holiday – has it that Acura is developing a sleek four-door to join the lexicologically questionable segment known as "four-door coupes." The various translations equate to a car built on the forthcoming ZDX crossover's architecture, with reports suggesting that the new model will slot in between the TSX and the TL. Longer than the TSX by a few inches, the coupe is expected to also be wider, lower, and have a longer wheelbase than the small sedan.
Although one of the outlets mentioned a V8 and a FR layout, the consensus on a proposed engine is the 3.7-liter V6 paired up with Acura's SH-AWD and Motion Adaptive EPS. When might one expect to see this latter-day CL, if such a thing really does exist? Next year's Detroit Auto Show, with U.S. sales perhaps at the end of 2010. Hat tip to Nick!
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/25/r...2010/#comments
Rumor on two continents – Germany in Auto Motor und Sport and Japan in Holiday – has it that Acura is developing a sleek four-door to join the lexicologically questionable segment known as "four-door coupes." The various translations equate to a car built on the forthcoming ZDX crossover's architecture, with reports suggesting that the new model will slot in between the TSX and the TL. Longer than the TSX by a few inches, the coupe is expected to also be wider, lower, and have a longer wheelbase than the small sedan.
Although one of the outlets mentioned a V8 and a FR layout, the consensus on a proposed engine is the 3.7-liter V6 paired up with Acura's SH-AWD and Motion Adaptive EPS. When might one expect to see this latter-day CL, if such a thing really does exist? Next year's Detroit Auto Show, with U.S. sales perhaps at the end of 2010. Hat tip to Nick!
05-25-2009 | 02:34 PM
#1752
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 167,734
Likes: 23,026
Here's a pic from the Autoblog article...
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog...._new_sedan.jpg
And oh, thread merged...
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog...._new_sedan.jpg
And oh, thread merged...
05-25-2009 | 07:06 PM
#1754
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 167,734
Likes: 23,026
