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Good to know. I would hope they'd make it easy to replace, seeing as it continues the BMW tradition of water pumps that fail/leak prematurely. I was just picking a random serviceable part ... not being specific to any knowledge of a part that's unnecessarily difficult to R/R.
And don't they run two water pumps, one electrical and one mechanical? It would be a very German thing to do ...
It has a dedicate turbo electric coolant pump and the thermostat is electronically controlled by the ECU. The water pump is mechanical. If you have time to watch, Papadakisracing did a teardown of the B58 (Supra) engine.
Agreed. If someone just wants to go fast they can buy a 2.0T Accord. It actually outperforms the TLX 2.0T. I'd also guess most Acura customers are going for the luxury.
Um...unless you want SH-AWD. That, and the fact that my wife hates the appearance of the Accord, is why we have a new TLX. But for those who don't care about SH-AWD and like the look of the Accord, it's a great car with much more room in the back seat.
Um...unless you want SH-AWD. That, and the fact that my wife hates the appearance of the Accord, is why we have a new TLX. But for those who don't care about SH-AWD and like the look of the Accord, it's a great car with much more room in the back seat.
You have to at least hand it to Acura that they differentiated the TLX (or made the Accord enough of an ugly duck) to really polarize the two. Both cars have their specific purposes and neither sides of the shopping world should try to force their respective car to be something it's not.
Being the info is about things that happened 10 to 20 years ago, don't think it applies much if at all today. Look at the TL 3G/4G/TLX 1G Acurazine members who have gone German & never come back suggests its pretty much a one way street today.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Audi sold 1,692,773 total units world wide in 2020. Our portion Audi USA 186,625 units - Audi Canada 25,892 units. Acura sold 164,904 total units world wide in 2020. Our portion Acura USA 136,982 units - Acura Canada 16,712 units - (global) China sales were about 11,210. Not sure where else they are sold so kick in another 10,000 units incase I missed some location.
If the numbers are close to being accurate Audi has more USA sales alone than Acura has total sales.
So with all due respect to your wife's new car & your neighbors 5 year old car I do not believe Audi execs are having sleepless nights worrying about Acura e
ating their lunch. BMW & MB absolutely are eating their Jager Schnitzel, but not Acura. My Acura antidotal story is the last Acura in the neighborhood is a 8 or 9 year old 4G, same driveway has also newer BMW 5 & Porsche 718 Cayman.
Wife's friend has the new RDX, not the wife.
With US Acura having 85% of US Audi's sales numbers I extremely doubt it's a "pretty much a one way street today", I would agree it's probably more toward Audi but without actual data no one knows and AZ is probably not a definitive market wide representative data point.
And sometimes a company can have the data and not even know, the best case for that was GM management believing their successful 1970's F-body cars Camaro and Firebird sold vast majority to males.
So in the 3G F-body redesign someone in marketing decided to run the decade of sales data and discovered 1/2 of F-bodies were sold to women. Some of the 3G Camaro and Firebird interior and switchgear was redesigned after that discovery.
And in terms of sleepless nights, I defer to the best quote from Andy Grove (my brother's boss's boss's boss at Intel), "Only The Paranoid Survive" .
Detroit ignored Japan and look where it got them. And the best example today for being auto exec's being aloof to challenging auto threat is Tesla.
Truly amazing to see what they've accomplished in only a dozen or so years.
Um...unless you want SH-AWD. That, and the fact that my wife hates the appearance of the Accord, is why we have a new TLX. But for those who don't care about SH-AWD and like the look of the Accord, it's a great car with much more room in the back seat.
Good point, SH-AWD does make a huge difference in handling. I do still think having that be the only performance differentiator between the two is a bit silly.
Then again we've had the Accord V6 for a number of years so I guess that's par for the course for Honda/Acura.
I think it was SavageGeese who proposed that it's because of cameras that automobile designers basically threw visibility to the wind in the name of design. Tiny rear windows, high window and hood lines ... if it's true, it makes a whole lotta sense. It took me a while to gauge the edges of the 3G RDX coming from a 2G CRV.
I viewed this more from increasing safety, finding ways to cut down on road noise, adding aerodynamics, etc. In the quest for this visibility will start to suffer and in turn these gadgets are more necessary.
It's still going to come down to pricing (with options) and relative performance.
At low-$50K MSRP, and one can imagine a handful of months into the future a more realistic selling price of mid- to high-40s ASP, the car could be a good deal. I'd happily pay $47K for one. But once you get up over $50K, there are just so many other options in close reach, including EVs. BMWs i4 is likely going to be a great seller if they get it priced right. Some sources say around $50K (which would be appropriate considering you need to be under $60K for CA incentives). If you can get the car i4 at $57K with a $7500 credit in the US, well, that's a deal.
Looking at 2021 models of BMW M340i, Audi S4 Quattro, and Mercedes C Class to be on par with the Type S, they're all priced at least like $54k. Once the Type S comes out to where it can be built on the Acura site, I'll do another comparison. From what I've seen, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all have to have packages added in order to have the features that Acura has standard. Safety systems, wheels, sunroof, navigation, and other features. And they normally jack the price up $3k+. So in my book, the Type S will still be at the top value wise. Everyone keep thinking about the performance. I'm thinking about the total package. The Mercedes and BMW might have more power but what about the comfort? What about the infotainment? What about wheel choices? What about accessories? Ford might off 4-6k off their Fusion but by the time I add the packages that I want that'll match up to the Accord of the same trim, the cost is right back up to where it was before. Building an Aspec on the Acura site with features that matter to me, I'm at $47k. None of the other cars even offer remote start. So to me, they're all cancelled out. To even get the Audi to have the same features as the Aspec, pricing starts at $49k. Mercedes C class is at $50k. And BMW STARTS at $44k.
Value folks. Value is the name of the game. Acura always tends to keep that. I bet the Type S is going to have plenty of value built into it.
Building an Aspec on the Acura site with features that matter to me, I'm at $47k. None of the other cars even offer remote start.
The A-Spec doesn't have remote start. To get that feature, you need to be a paid subscriber to their Acuralink app. If you want the remote start button on your key fob, you need to get the Advanced Trim. It's disappointing because I came from a '18 MDX SHAWD Tech package that had remote start on the key fob.
Don't even get me started with the lack of electronically folding side mirrors. Grrrrr.
The A-Spec doesn't have remote start. To get that feature, you need to be a paid subscriber to their Acuralink app. If you want the remote start button on your key fob, you need to get the Advanced Trim. It's disappointing because I came from a '18 MDX SHAWD Tech package that had remote start on the key fob.
Don't even get me started with the lack of electronically folding side mirrors. Grrrrr.
I added remote start to the build for the $47k I listed that comes with a key fob with the button for it. Still had more value than the German competitors. Acura has never had where you have to be subscribed to them in order to get remote start. That's if you want to start the vehicle from your app on your phone. Which comes with other features.
Power folding mirrors can be added later on for less than $400 I'm sure. A company has already came out with them for the Accord.
I added remote start to the build for the $47k I listed that comes with a key fob with the button for it. Still had more value than the German competitors. Acura has never had where you have to be subscribed to them in order to get remote start. That's if you want to start the vehicle from your app on your phone. Which comes with other features.
Power folding mirrors can be added later on for less than $400 I'm sure. A company has already came out with them for the Accord.
Ok. That must be a build before destination for $47k. My default A-Spec SHAWD was $47,775 MSRP with destination.
It has a dedicate turbo electric coolant pump and the thermostat is electronically controlled by the ECU. The water pump is mechanical. If you have time to watch, Papadakisracing did a teardown of the B58 (Supra) engine.
Very cool. It's pretty trippy that there's no external exhaust manifold(s). It looks like once you take the intake tube off, the water pump should be fairly accessible. Might not be the easiest, but nothing astronomically stupid (unless there's other stuff in the way that's not visible from the quick shot of the engine bay). Valve cover, which remains a problem with BMW, doesn't seem like a terrible job either.
Originally Posted by Speed Guy
It's still going to come down to pricing (with options) and relative performance.
At low-$50K MSRP, and one can imagine a handful of months into the future a more realistic selling price of mid- to high-40s ASP, the car could be a good deal. I'd happily pay $47K for one. But once you get up over $50K, there are just so many other options in close reach, including EVs. BMWs i4 is likely going to be a great seller if they get it priced right. Some sources say around $50K (which would be appropriate considering you need to be under $60K for CA incentives). If you can get the car i4 at $57K with a $7500 credit in the US, well, that's a deal.
Yea, if prices drop to those levels (~10% off sticker), it'll be a very hard car to pass up. That will largely depend on demand and how many Acura decides to build. Regardless, I'll probably have to travel to get a decent deal on one. Long Islanders love their Acuras and are more than happy to pay sticker for them apparently. Idiots.
Originally Posted by Shadow2056
Looking at 2021 models of BMW M340i, Audi S4 Quattro, and Mercedes C Class to be on par with the Type S, they're all priced at least like $54k. Once the Type S comes out to where it can be built on the Acura site, I'll do another comparison. From what I've seen, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all have to have packages added in order to have the features that Acura has standard. Safety systems, wheels, sunroof, navigation, and other features. And they normally jack the price up $3k+. So in my book, the Type S will still be at the top value wise. Everyone keep thinking about the performance. I'm thinking about the total package. The Mercedes and BMW might have more power but what about the comfort? What about the infotainment? What about wheel choices? What about accessories? Ford might off 4-6k off their Fusion but by the time I add the packages that I want that'll match up to the Accord of the same trim, the cost is right back up to where it was before. Building an Aspec on the Acura site with features that matter to me, I'm at $47k. None of the other cars even offer remote start. So to me, they're all cancelled out. To even get the Audi to have the same features as the Aspec, pricing starts at $49k. Mercedes C class is at $50k. And BMW STARTS at $44k.
Value folks. Value is the name of the game. Acura always tends to keep that. I bet the Type S is going to have plenty of value built into it.
Yep yep. We'll know for sure when final pricing arrives, along with performance figures and what features will be available/cost extra. It definitely seems like things are looking favorably for the value department though. Personally, if it's well behind the competition in performance, it'll be a hard pass. Still not sold on the looks, but the A-Spec in blue I saw the other day was very handsome. I've seen an A-Spec in white as well, which is generally my favorite color on cars, and I did not find it very appealing. That's purely personal opinion though.
Also, it's not exactly apples to apples, but you can find lightly used 2020 M340i xDrives with under 10k miles for around $50k right now. I've seen a handful even under. They're not optioned to the hilt, but they're not bare bones either. So, if performance isn't up to snuff, and you don't mind dealing with the fact that you're breathing in a stranger's farts, it may be a worthy proposition.
Ok. That must be a build before destination for $47k. My default A-Spec SHAWD was $47,775 MSRP with destination.
It was built on the Acura site. I'm sure even with destination, it's still below the $50k mark.
Originally Posted by leomio85
Yep yep. We'll know for sure when final pricing arrives, along with performance figures and what features will be available/cost extra. It definitely seems like things are looking favorably for the value department though. Personally, if it's well behind the competition in performance, it'll be a hard pass. Still not sold on the looks, but the A-Spec in blue I saw the other day was very handsome. I've seen an A-Spec in white as well, which is generally my favorite color on cars, and I did not find it very appealing. That's purely personal opinion though.
Also, it's not exactly apples to apples, but you can find lightly used 2020 M340i xDrives with under 10k miles for around $50k right now. I've seen a handful even under. They're not optioned to the hilt, but they're not bare bones either. So, if performance isn't up to snuff, and you don't mind dealing with the fact that you're breathing in a stranger's farts, it may be a worthy proposition.
You HAVE to like the look of the vehicle you're buying. I wouldn't encourage anyone to buy a car, especially spending $50k on one, and they're not 100% on the looks of it. If could be a beast at performance but if I don't like the look of it, I aint paying a dime for it. Lol.
I wouldn't mind paying that money for a pre-owned M3. But it's a completely different class. But not for the M340i. Doesn't sound reasonable to some people but to me, it does. In the end, that's all that matters. What YOU value. So I wouldn't fault you for going with a lightly used M340i.
Ye gods, two more months of this, and that's if the chip shortage doesn't delay production further.
That's crazy man! I heard about that from my managers the other day. So inventory is going to start getting really low. I think they might be limiting the amount they release because of that as well.
@Mak P here’s one of many, many, many articles about the semiconductor chip shortage that began during the pandemic, and the surge in demand leading to the semiconductor industry being way behind even though production has returned. Cars are involved because modern cars are run by multiple computers.
and if you are waiting for an XBox Series X or PS5, you are still SOL. I just finally successfully ordered an XBox Series X after nearly 5 months of trying.
CNBC had an interview with the former CEO of Ford this morning who said auto production in the first quarter will be one million units below what was scheduled with another million likely lost in second quarter. That would equal the amount of production lost in 2020 due to Covid shutdowns.Inventories will surely drop along with incentives and transaction prices will increase. Demand is forecast to increase as the year progresses as well.
If Acura thinks it can get 70k for it's Type-S here in Canada, they're insane. Add 5k and you have a nicely optioned S5 SB.
With all respect, it's not always about Audi. If Audi was so, so good and everyone's first choice. Audi wouldn't have sold ~70-80K units less than BMW, MB and Lexus. We can say may be people can opt in for $70K for a nice C43 or 340 or even cheaper option G70 This is not to insult you since you have an Audi. But Audi is not The Car of everyone's choice. Although, I personally love A/S5 and believe it's an amazing car and good looking.
And yes, if Acura tries to sell Type S for $70K in Canada. I will be the first one to say they are simply stupid and idiots. Why would you pay $70K for Type S when there are many other options.
With all respect, it's not always about Audi. If Audi was so, so good and everyone's first choice. Audi wouldn't have sold ~70-80K units less than BMW, MB and Lexus. We can say may be people can opt in for $70K for a nice C43 or 340 or even cheaper option G70 This is not to insult you since you have an Audi. But Audi is not The Car of everyone's choice. Although, I personally love A/S5 and believe it's an amazing car and good looking.
And yes, if Acura tries to sell Type S for $70K in Canada. I will be the first one to say they are simply stupid and idiots. Why would you pay $70K for Type S when there are many other options.
My example reflects a real shopping experience since I'm actively looking for one with dealership help. Not just window shopping. Can't say the same for Mercedes or BMW since those are not on my shopping list. But the S5 SB is known to be the perfect sports sedan for everyday use. The Type-S has a few limitations, so for 70K it's nowhere close to a reasonable purchase to save money. Even less so with G70 and IS500 present.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-29-2021 at 11:30 AM.
With all respect, it's not always about Audi. If Audi was so, so good and everyone's first choice. Audi wouldn't have sold ~70-80K units less than BMW, MB and Lexus. We can say may be people can opt in for $70K for a nice C43 or 340 or even cheaper option G70 This is not to insult you since you have an Audi. But Audi is not The Car of everyone's choice. Although, I personally love A/S5 and believe it's an amazing car and good looking.
And yes, if Acura tries to sell Type S for $70K in Canada. I will be the first one to say they are simply stupid and idiots. Why would you pay $70K for Type S when there are many other options.
Same. At the $70k price point, there are too many options that could out perform the Type S. Just like the Type R.
If Acura thinks it can get 70k for it's Type-S here in Canada, they're insane. Add 5k and you have a nicely optioned S5 SB.
If Acura bumped its price by $10k because of a chip shortage, it would likely mean that the other manufacturers were also marking up their cars by $10k. It's just unfortunate for consumers of any brand that this chip shortage is currently in play.
If Acura bumped its price by $10k because of a chip shortage, it would likely mean that the other manufacturers were also marking up their cars by $10k. It's just unfortunate for consumers of any brand that this chip shortage is currently in play.
ya this is a huge issue right now. Let's see how long it will last.
Acura isn't going to be charging exorbitant prices for the Type-S. They've already released speculative pricing of low-50k USD and around 60k CAD. It's the dealers who are going to try and make crazy amounts of profit when it comes to light that there's only going to be 2,000 units in the US and 200 in Canada (pulling these numbers straight out of the depths of my hairy asscrack). If you find a Type-S for 60k USD/70k CAD, it'll be on the low end for pricing of one of these upon release with everything going on. Even without the production shortage there would be a mark-up, this is just adding fuel to the fire.
I'd be extending my lease or holding on to my car for at least another year. Right now seems to be a terrible time to be shopping for a car, new or used.
I'd be extending my lease or holding on to my car for at least another year. Right now seems to be a terrible time to be shopping for a car, new or used.
Right now seems to be a terrible time to be shopping for a car, new or used.
Really? Sticker prices on the current non-Type-S TLX are dropping. We bought one 2 weeks ago with a $5,000 discount. Acura's not offering a $2,500 loyalty discount + 0% financing because these cars are selling like hotcakes. But then, the type-s may be a different story.
In 2000 I traded my 1999 TL for a 2001 CL-S right off the assembly line and paid a premium price for a color that was not my first choice. I was younger and more foolish then. A year from now, the TLX Type-S will likely be priced reasonably. The market will take care of that. I'm not wild about any of the current exterior color options. If they offer a darker blue exterior in the future, and the price is right, I may be tempted to bite.
Really? Sticker prices on the current non-Type-S TLX are dropping. We bought one 2 weeks ago with a $5,000 discount. Acura's not offering a $2,500 loyalty discount + 0% financing because these cars are selling like hotcakes. But then, the type-s may be a different story.
Suspect Acura will limit production to keep the prices up. Their dealers have to be hurting & could use a profit enhancer. Key question is will the buyers be there? The special red paint TLX did not seem to do the trick at $50,000.
Really? Sticker prices on the current non-Type-S TLX are dropping. We bought one 2 weeks ago with a $5,000 discount. Acura's not offering a $2,500 loyalty discount + 0% financing because these cars are selling like hotcakes. But then, the type-s may be a different story.
Ok, maybe not right this second, but as production is slashed and unit deliveries become more scarce, prices will likely adjust. And no, the TLX is not selling like hotcakes unfortunately. There's over 100 units sitting on nearly every one of the 6 lots near me. TLX sales have been at record lows. It should be telling when you can get $5k off sticker on a vehicle that has only been out 6mos (I felt like I was asking for my salesperson's newborn when only getting $2k off our RDX a year after release). I'm not bashing the car, it's just a sad fact that they're not selling all that well.
If you were on the fence about getting something, I'd pull the trigger ASAP, before prices start going up ... if they haven't already. I'm sure plenty of places are already starting to stick to sticker or above in anticipation of a possible supply shortage, as the news of production issues is basically mainstream at this point.
I like the current TLX a lot but....who in his right mind is going to pay second sticker on a Type S?? Unless the car is going to be a spectacular outlier in term of capabilities, I suspect it will perform exactly as its 350 HP engine will allow it to perform....just like any other good or even excellent sub 400 horses sport sedans out there and there are a LOT of choices. The real outlier is the M340i which is seriously fast for its advertised power.
As good as the new TLX is and how commendable the effort from Acura is to differentiate it from the Accord (different front suspension, serious power difference between the top trims of both cars, longer wheelbase, etc...) especially after the disastrous first generation TLX, sorry but it ain't second sticker material in my book....the "Type S" badge is not the "M" badge....
03-19-2021, 06:46 AM
I was just picking a random serviceable part ... not being specific to any knowledge of a part that's unnecessarily difficult to R/R.
In college I had a Audi 100LS, that I mod'ed including adding miniature red lights that shown down from under the dash and center stackup. 
This is not to insult you since you have an Audi. But Audi is not The Car of everyone's choice. Although, I personally love A/S5 and believe it's an amazing car and good looking.
