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Acura needs to put this beefed 10 speed that doesn’t limit torque in first gear in all of their products.
Given that they're already having to heavily discount the regular TLX to move units, I'm not sure they can afford to provide that kind of upgrade. I mentioned this in my impressions after test driving the TLX, but in most situations it feels pretty fast and feels like a car that would do mid 5s 0-60, not low 6s. It's really just starting from a standstill that it feels let down, but I think for most normal people, they'll be at speed when going WOT anyways so the torque reduction in first is probably not a dealbreaker.
Based on the above, you may want to put an asterisk next to that 5.9 s that mentions the roll out. Unless of course, it's typical for roll out to be discounted just because you are on a track environment...
No need C&D lists the rollout number in the test stats. Was .3 for the TLX & .2 for the Audi S4 & .3 for the M340. C&D tests to a simulated drag strip start. Numbers will have rollout in them. Was surprised that the Audi was only .2 car must really launch well. .3 is pretty much the standard number. There is a 1 foot gap between where the car starts from & where the clock starts.
In one of these three or so active TLX threads I did a layout of what the rollout is with pictures. Will take a look for it.
Thing is when looking at understanding these numbers I expect 99% of the TLX drivers & maybe fans here have never driven in a real drag race at a track. Rollout has always been a big mystery tp most. Managing how you stage (come to the starting line) can be used to get an advantage over your opponent in many cases. I also explained that.
"That's why majority of media places go to a maintained track where that pavement friction variable is the same for their tests noting the track temp and obviously dry." - right. My point...is....3rd time is the charm; what car does on these heavily prepped surfaces is irrelevant to 99.99% of people. Maybe even a touch beyond that. Average Joe and Joanne don't track, nor do they even know where one is. Or would go on weekend. They're painting the kitchen and going to Home Depot. I've been to a lot of tracks, I've seen MAYBE 2-3 Acura cars, out of thousands and thousands (over the years). Track TLX promo videos are all nice and dandy but they're footed in reality as much as the Superman is real. Go to any Acura dealer showroom and look around who is there to shop...
I'm out.
That's not the point he was trying to bring which was consistent testing environment/conditions about 0-60 acceleration times. This has absolutely nothing to do if people got to the track or promo videos or buyers.
It's simply to eliminate the road variable from the vehicle testing results between different vehicles being tested, it's that simple. Track does not need to be "heavily prepped", just clean and consistent that's what MotorWeek does with their testing.
I guess the initial photos were either taken from a bad angle or the lighting was off, because in the TFL video the engine bay looks a lot nicer
I like that there are no rear or side plastic engine bay covers like the 3G TL which maybe the peak of engine covers at Acura.
Although the beefy 3G TL strut brace is quite beefier than the Type-S. The size of the plenum hose going down to the intercooler is pretty large as is the size of that electrical harness going into the plenum area.
Roll out is how the magazines test the standing start. Its a 1 foot dead zone between where the car is standing & the clock trigger it. Typically worth .2 or .3 seconds on a street car. What they are doing is simulating a drag strip starting light configuration. The staged lights, where the car is stopped to launch from & the clock start/foul light is spaced 1 foot apart. So yes the car is actually rolling when the timer starts.
Example:
When you roll up to the line the pre-stage light will turn on. You creep forward till the staged light turns on. The tree will start the countdown .5 second per amber light. Green is the launch light. (any hope of winning you learn how to launch on the last yellow) The car rolls forward & trips the timer start light. (the roll-out)
This is why street only guys with a stop watch can never match the magazine numbers. You need something like a Dragy.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-06-2021 at 03:41 PM.
Roll out is how the magazines test the standing start. Its a 1 foot dead zone between where the car is standing & the clock trigger it. Typically worth .2 or .3 seconds on a street car. What they are doing is simulating a drag strip starting light configuration. The staged lights, where the car is stopped to launch from & the clock start/foul light is spaced 1 foot apart. So yes the car is actually rolling when the timer starts.
Example:
When you roll up to the line the pre-stage light will turn on. You creep forward till the staged light turns on. The tree will start the countdown .5 second per amber light. Green is the launch light. (any hope of winning you learn how to launch on the last yellow) The car rolls forward & trips the timer start light. (the roll-out)
This is why street only guys with a stop watch can never match the magazine numbers. You need something like a Dragy.
Do you think Motorweek and AoA also performed roll out as well and that's how they got those sub-6 sec numbers?
Do you think Motorweek and AoA also performed roll out as well and that's how they got those sub-6 sec numbers?
AoA says he does include rollout, so you'll need to add ~0.3s compared to numbers that don't include rollout: https://alexonautos.com/performance-scores/. Regardless, I would take his numbers with a grain of salt since they tend to vary quite a bit with everyone elses. For instance, he recorded the MDX as stoping from 60mph in 109ft, far shorter than anyone else. In fact, that would only be 1 foot longer than the M440i he tested...
A few new specs we haven’t seen before that video...
I hope downshifts are faster in sport+ mode even without the use of paddle shifters. For regular 10AT, many reviewers commented that upshifts are fine but downshifts are slow, nice that Acura addressed that.
Also i wish they increased situations / conditions where torque is transferred to rear in sport +, not just increased it by 40% across for exixting logic.
I'm a bit surprised the highway MPGs are so low, considering it has a 10-speed. By comparison, the M340xi is EPA rated at 31 highway, S4 is 28, and C43 4matic is 27. Shouldn't highway MPGs be one of the benefits of having so many gears? And it's not like this car is shaped like a brick, so I don't think it can be chalked up to aerodynamics.
I'm also surprised by the mpg. Typically a more "muscular" car gets some of that fuel econ back compared to base models. Seems like the weight is still an issue. Shouldn't we know that by now?!!
Do you think Motorweek and AoA also performed roll out as well and that's how they got those sub-6 sec numbers?
Car & driver said this:
"All of our standing-start acceleration times also include rollout, a short period of time (typically about 0.3 second) that we subtract from the acceleration figures. It's a phenomenon that stems from the physics of the timing lights at a drag strip, where a car can be rolling for 12 inches or more before the clock starts. We recently changed our procedure to now use the industry standard 1-foot rollout." I think this change caused the S4 to get a .2 rollout vs the old everybody got .3.
Don't know how many magazines the "industry standard" covers but most if not all of the majors say they use it. I always go to C&D not for the RAW numbers but because all their testing is done the same way and any leveling algorithms they use will be the same for all cars. So the relative spreads among the cars will be valid. Guys getting tense over 1/10 hear or there should know that a number of runs are made looking for the best time. I was pretty successful in bracket racing at Englishtown Raceway Park & it was normal especially in the summer for the handicaps to change from the cooler morning time trials to slower times in the eliminations with the heat of the afternoon. That was a big part of the game, planning your Dial In for the elimination rounds s based on the morning time trials runs.
This is mine with a 1 foot roll out on a big box parking lot.
Was just over .3 for the 1 foot rollout that C&D uses. No bragging rights as I was running slightly up a grade. Couldn't run the other way, slightly downhill as Dragy flagged that as invalid. C&D got theirs down to 3.7 & 4.0. Don't know what the actual C&D raw numbers were as the run their analyzer for weather & altitude factors to all be the same.
FWIW I know at least one test was run with the Shelby GT-500 where traction compound was laid down to get the best numbers. The vid showed it being done. On the street there are a lot of quick cars that can do a number on the 750BHP units out of a traffic light as long as its not strung out to long & they blow by like you are parked. Cars with these kinds of power to traction numbers are very hard to launch. The Cobra can run anything from mid 2's to low threes, its a you never know how its going to do till its done.
I'm also surprised by the mpg. Typically a more "muscular" car gets some of that fuel econ back compared to base models. Seems like the weight is still an issue. Shouldn't we know that by now?!!
Make that a threepeat but you need to see the gearing. They might have done a Stingray & put stiffer gears in to help acceleration. Question is not how many gears it has but what is the RPM in10th. My top is 8th & I can run close to 90mph at 2250rpm. If they did stiffer gears to get some nice 4 second numbers its at the expense of mileage. Everything is a tradeoff you can't cheat physics.
For a performance 3 liter the EPA has not been kind to the Type-S. That said agree weight is a factor. My EPA numbers at 3535lbs are combined/city/highway: 26/24/31 mpg I am behind on the city number at 22mpg but ahead on the highway number with 31mpg @ 79mph. Thing I can't figure out is C&D said "75-mph highway driving: 38 mpg". Only thing that might account for that is a very steady 75mph with no changes in speed or elevation. In Mexico I run into the 90's to make a 79mph average speed in normal high speed traffic with the robot set at 85 actual/88 indicated mph. BMW has a 3mph slush fund built in to the speedometer. It can be coded out for actual speed if you want.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-06-2021 at 08:42 PM.
^^^^^ That defeats the purpose of having fold down seats in the first place. I guess the Type-S is never intended to be used to transport big items at all.
On one hand, that's pretty cool. On the other hand, at this point what exactly is the point of getting a "sports sedan" if it's so bad at doing sedan things? Might as well get a better looking coupe if the sedan isn't that much more practical.
^^^^^ That defeats the purpose of having fold down seats in the first place. I guess the Type-S is never intended to be used to transport big items at all.
You can still fold them down and use it for skis/snowboards. But honestly, if you have a TLX-S in your household, I doubt it'd be your only car and you will need to move a new TV in it
You can still fold them down and use it for skis/snowboards. But honestly, if you have a TLX-S in your household, I doubt it'd be your only car and you will need to move a new TV in it
Why get the TLX Type-S, may as well just get the RDX Type-S. Price will probably be only ~5k more anyways.
I personally selected the S5 SB since I preferred the driving over the SQ5; yet still retaining a similar useful cargo space. But if the S5 SB had the same bracing, would be no reason for me to even consider it.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 05-06-2021 at 11:51 PM.
It’s definitely a negative. But not a dealbreaker. I’ve probably use the pass through about once a year. I could see if this was placed in a type R version but not the type s.
It’s definitely a negative. But not a dealbreaker. I’ve probably use the pass through about once a year. I could see if this was placed in a type R version but not the type s.
I guess at least they didn't turn it into a 4 seater like the CTR, but funnily enough I don't think that would actually be that big of a loss. The middle seat in the TLX is a terrible place for anyone not in elementary school to be sitting. Not only is there almost no padding for your butt, but it's very flat and you sit about 2-3 inches higher so your head butts up against the roof.
Wish they used ZF- 9 speed or 8 speed, while their 10 speed transmission has shown no troubles with reliability and cost is factor time will tell if it can withstand the power output for tuners.
Sounds like you never drove the ZF-9 and the 8 speed wouldn't fit anyway. I got rid of my '18 Aspec AWD because of that stupid transmission. It may be ok to most but I keep comparing it to my '03 CL Type S 6 speed. Hoping the 10 speed is better. Time will tell though.
Acura added a Cross brace in the rear trunk and you are able to still fold the rear seat. Not bad at all.
My 4th gen back seat doesn’t even fold. This is cool. It give you the option to put some larger items but at the same time it sticks to its roots. A true sport sedan! I noticed this during AoAs review. Btw, Alex was very emotionless during his review 🤣
On one hand, that's pretty cool. On the other hand, at this point what exactly is the point of getting a "sports sedan" if it's so bad at doing sedan things? Might as well get a better looking coupe if the sedan isn't that much more practical.
Originally Posted by pyrodan007
Why get the TLX Type-S, may as well just get the RDX Type-S. Price will probably be only ~5k more anyways.
I personally selected the S5 SB since I preferred the driving over the SQ5; yet still retaining a similar useful cargo space. But if the S5 SB had the same bracing, would be no reason for me to even consider it.
Seems like Acura doubled down on their desire to get you into an SUV if you think the sedan interior is too small. They have been fairly consistent with this philosophy of late.
It’s definitely a negative. But not a dealbreaker. I’ve probably use the pass through about once a year. I could see if this was placed in a type R version but not the type s.
I am sure it's a deal breaker for a lot of people. There are plenty of TLX drivers preferred a sport sedan that can carry more than just 2x4 studs (and only fits that bottom triangle area anyway). Would I get one? Absolutely, if I already have a second car, but then there are others that offer better trunk-interior space. I agreed, this should be an upgraded option or Type-R.
I am sure it's a deal breaker for a lot of people. There are plenty of TLX drivers preferred a sport sedan that can carry more than just 2x4 studs (and only fits that bottom triangle area anyway). Would I get one? Absolutely, if I already have a second car, but then there are others that offer better trunk-interior space. I agreed, this should be an upgraded option or Type-R.
As Elin mentioned Acura is very consistent with their philosophy. Also, if you notice their yearly sales target is very low. 35,000 units vs 60 or 65K for RDX. Literally 2X.
i am glad Acura didn’t kill their sedans all together. But still the ILX replacement is in the pipeline. I might be wrong, but if feels like Acura is trying to focus to build a true sport car and those who need space, baby car seat and carrying larger items. Go for RDX or mdx. Their strategy is right or wrong, I can’t say much.
As Elin mentioned Acura is very consistent with their philosophy. Also, if you notice their yearly sales target is very low. 35,000 units vs 60 or 65K for RDX. Literally 2X.
i am glad Acura didn’t kill their sedans all together. But still the ILX replacement is in the pipeline. I might be wrong, but if feels like Acura is trying to focus to build a true sport car and those who need space, baby car seat and carrying larger items. Go for RDX or mdx. Their strategy is right or wrong, I can’t say much.
I hope that's their philosophy, but I believe the SUV market was hot in the past few years, and Acura wanted a piece of the pie as well. Even ILX replacement is on the line, would it satisfy the TLX (Type-S) old and new enthusiasts? Also, I was hoping for the Type-S to have a full virtual cockpit. I don't think a true TLX enthusiast minds that, but selling cars to the majority, not to few.
I am sure it's a deal breaker for a lot of people. There are plenty of TLX drivers preferred a sport sedan that can carry more than just 2x4 studs (and only fits that bottom triangle area anyway). Would I get one? Absolutely, if I already have a second car, but then there are others that offer better trunk-interior space. I agreed, this should be an upgraded option or Type-R.
I'm not a skier but I am a golfer. Here' what I was able to put in the trunk of my TLX without folding down the rear seats:
1) Clicgear 2.0 foldable golf cart all the way into the rear of trunk.
2) Full-size emergency kit that includes a lug wrench, compressor, and jumper cables. I will probably downgrade to a smaller kit since I don't have a spare in this car.
3) Full-size golf cart bag. This is not one of those shoulder bags that has legs that pop out when you set it on the ground. It's similar size to the ones the pros use on TV. I was able to set this down horizontally! One great benefit of this car's width being so pronounced is the width close to the opening of the trunk.
I could probably fit about 2 bags of groceries if I had to but this is already pretty tight. For the record, I could never fit the same cart bag horizontally in my '18 MDX!
The trunk of the 2G TLX is competitive within its segment and certainly not the smallest!
I'm not a skier but I am a golfer. Here' what I was able to put in the trunk of my TLX without folding down the rear seats:
1) Clicgear 2.0 foldable golf cart all the way into the rear of trunk.
2) Full-size emergency kit that includes a lug wrench, compressor, and jumper cables. I will probably downgrade to a smaller kit since I don't have a spare in this car.
3) Full-size golf cart bag. This is not one of those shoulder bags that has legs that pop out when you set it on the ground. It's similar size to the ones the pros use on TV. I was able to set this down horizontally! One great benefit of this car's width being so pronounced is the width close to the opening of the trunk.
I could probably fit about 2 bags of groceries if I had to but this is already pretty tight. For the record, I could never fit the same cart bag horizontally in my '18 MDX!
The trunk of the 2G TLX is competitive within its segment and certainly not the smallest!
So, TLX Type-S is catered to skiers and golfers? As I said, car manufacturers are selling cars to the majority, and Type-S owners used to be a big crowd.
So, TLX Type-S is catered to skiers and golfers? As I said, car manufacturers are selling cars to the majority, and Type-S owners used to be a big crowd.
I was only commenting on your perceived "smallness" of the trunk. It should be fine for most folks except those who are constantly ferrying long and wide cargo. In that case, an SUV is highly recommended regardless of manufacturer.
I was only commenting on your perceived "smallness" of the trunk. It should be fine for most folks except those who are constantly ferrying long and wide cargo. In that case, an SUV is highly recommended regardless of manufacturer.
I don't think anyone here claimed that the trunk is small. In fact I believe the trunk itself is larger than most of the competion except maybe for the A5 SB. However, that brace definitely reduces the versatility of the car a fair bit.
Honestly, my EVIL plan was to talk my wife into the Type-S since she doesn't drive a big SUV (just a big chicken), but with that brace, I am 100% sure she will say no to it.
Is there any logical explanation for not having HUD on the Type S? How much would it have added to the overall cost, $100? On a $55K+ car? Put it on a 2.0T but not 3.0T. I don't get it.
05-06-2021, 12:26 PM
I also explained that.
